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GulMadred posted:we're about to discover whether this example belongs on the first list or the second[/list][/list] I'm not sure that it will outrage people enough to be honest. I guess most people would frame it as "Is this something I'd do (on a smaller scale) to someone I didn't like" I guess the most apt comparison would be disabling a coworkers car in a 'no-harmful way' to keep them from an important meeting so you could take the spot light. Like hiding their keys or something. It's probably a bad comparison but whatever. I think that public gets much more outraged when money is involved for some reason, which is why I think the political ad thing will end up having more legs.
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Jan 17, 2014 08:44
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Bridge-gate
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Jan 17, 2014 08:46
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Jakcson posted:I'd say there was something wrong with it, but until a government exists that is better than ours, I'm afraid I just have to be OK with it. Besides, I live in the USA. I don't want the secret police to kill me. If there were a level of corruption where we had secret police killing political rivals, Christie would be a target, and your agreement with and endorsement of Christie's actions would potentially make you one too. As it turns out, we aren't that awful. You know this implicitly since you are endorsing the illegal actions of a corrupt member of the opposition party.
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Jan 17, 2014 09:52
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20 subpoenas have been issued for the bridge scandal. With that many people testifying, it seems like at least one of them will say something directly linking Christie to the closing.
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Jan 17, 2014 10:26
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Jakcson posted:Historically speaking, that's pretty much how every government has done things. Hi, I'm from socialist Scandinavia and I'm pretty sure a government official in Chris Christies position would have lost his job at this point if Bridgeghazi had happened here. Except, wait, he'd have already lost it for the Sandy ads poo poo.
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Jan 17, 2014 10:49
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GulMadred posted:Americans know that their politicians are corrupt, but expect them to be corrupt in specific ways. For example: I think the bolded might belong more on the second list. In any case, this notion of corruption being an absolute thing is ridiculous. Every society has a level of corruption that they will stomach, and that level may change over time.
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Jan 17, 2014 11:17
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I keep seeing or hearing non-commuters saying, "oh big deal it's just a little traffic why is this even a story," typically while acknowledging that it is lovely for a politican to be that naked with their petty vendettas. I commute from North Jersey to Brooklyn every day. I do not use the GWB daily, but I have used it when circumstances dictated. It takes me between 1 and 3 hours to travel ~30 miles. I grew up in a house where my dad commuted into NYC. My wife commutes into NYC. My in-laws commuted, my brother-in-law and his wife both commute, every single person I know that doesn't work for local support businesses (daycares, local utility/telecom) commutes to loving NYC. Commutes in this part of the country are some of the worst in the nation. My community, and all of the towns around us, exist solely because of commuters to NYC. Enable me to safely and quickly commute to and from NYC is literally the only thing I ask my loving state government to do. I work for an essential service in NYC, I worked 90+ hour weeks during Sandy recovery, I need to be able to get to work safely and in a reasonable time. It makes me consider that if I can't trust my government to responsibly caretake the decades of construction and billions of dollars worth of public infrastructure, I can't trust them with anything at all, and maybe I shouldn't live in this state anymore. I do not think people comprehend what 4 hours of traffic means. That's a lost job. The mere implication that my very livelihood could be used as a threat against me is deeply upsetting, and the idea of anyone at all losing their job because the governor wanted to punish someone completely unrelated is a big loving deal.
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Jan 17, 2014 14:36
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frest posted:Commutes in this part of the country are some of the worst in the nation. My community, and all of the towns around us, exist solely because of commuters to NYC. The whole state does. Well, except for the part that exist solely because commuters to Philadelphia. Best location in the country!
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Jan 17, 2014 14:41
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DarkCrawler posted:The whole state does. Well, except for the part that exist solely because commuters to Philadelphia. Best location in the country! I mean, why else would traffic be used as a weapon against an area? It is the single most devastating attack on quality-of-life you can make.
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Jan 17, 2014 14:43
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Keeping the trains/roads running is probably the most thing in the world to keep New York/NJ prosperous. A lot of companies, especially finance, depends on their workers being able to arrive on time. A delay of that magnitude could easily cost millions for a firm even if for one day. So really, the problem for Christie in this case is that he hosed with rich people's money
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Jan 17, 2014 15:03
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Thundercracker posted:So really, the problem for Christie in this case is that he hosed with rich people's money That was something I was very willing to consider. That all of circus, all this meant was that some SVP at a financial was stuck on the bridge for 4 hours, and goddamnit if they don't lobby too hard to put up with this poo poo.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:12
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Do the FBI get involved in political corruption cases still, or are they all about the terrorisms nowadays? Or is this entirely a state matter, so the FBI couldn't give a drat anyway?
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Jan 17, 2014 15:14
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coffeetable posted:Do the FBI get involved in political corruption cases still, or are they all about the terrorisms nowadays? Federal probes have already started. The GWB crosses state lines, so it can have intrastate jurisdiction.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:18
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frest posted:I keep seeing or hearing non-commuters saying, "oh big deal it's just a little traffic why is this even a story," typically while acknowledging that it is lovely for a politican to be that naked with their petty vendettas. Seriously, on a good day it can take you and hour or two to get over the GWB, or the Lincoln/Holland Tunnel. I think the news didn't do a great job showing how bad the traffic got that day because they never panned west to show how any hiccup at the GWB has a cascading effect that can extend double digit miles. I'm not a fan of Christie so I may be a bit bias, but I'm really hoping for s bomb shell to come from these subpoenas. I'm sick of hearing how this rear end in a top hat is doing such a great job. Can't wait to laugh at the big billboard on Rt80 that says "Chris Christie, Keep up the good work!" if this jerk is removed from power.
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Jan 17, 2014 15:48
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quote:As of 2013, the George Washington Bridge carries approximately 102 million vehicles per year, making it the world's busiest motor vehicle bridge Haha, that's like putting a stop on all traffic of a small country over a petty political disagreement. Jeez, I never understood how much traffic actually passes through the GWB.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:05
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Bridge-gate ReindeerF posted:Bridgeghazi! Bridgeghatezi?
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Jan 17, 2014 16:29
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Its even better in light of the fact that one of christie's first/biggest acts as govenor was to idiotically back out of major train tunnel upgrades. This guy is actively loving burb commuters/homeowners long term but boy do they love what he's gonna do to their property taxes once he makes those drat teachers unions pay.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:34
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Inside Out Mom posted:Seriously, on a good day it can take you and hour or two to get over the GWB, or the Lincoln/Holland Tunnel. I think the news didn't do a great job showing how bad the traffic got that day because they never panned west to show how any hiccup at the GWB has a cascading effect that can extend double digit miles. The answer as always is corruption but rarely is there a smoking gun like this
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Jan 17, 2014 16:39
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StabbinHobo posted:Its even better in light of the fact that one of christie's first/biggest acts as govenor was to idiotically back out of major train tunnel upgrades. I'm a train-liking nerd so that really, really bothered me at the time. However, no one had any patience for my whining about trains because we're all idiot lemmings who drive to work, or take buses. I've taken rail into work a few times, during state-wide weather emergencies back when I used to commute by bus. I just don't understand how, systemically, rail can be a slower roundtrip with a greater ticket price. That doesn't make sense to me on any economy of scale. You'd think light rail would be a match made in heaven for North Jersey because parking in New York is such a disaster. Anyway, the property tax thing is a big red herring for most of the suburbs. My property taxes have increased under Christie, because the school district needs its funding and whatever they don't get from the state they're going to tack onto local.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:55
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Plinkey posted:I think that public gets much more outraged when money is involved for some reason, which is why I think the political ad thing will end up having more legs. StabbinHobo posted:Its even better in light of the fact that one of christie's first/biggest acts as govenor was to idiotically back out of major train tunnel upgrades. baw posted:20 subpoenas have been issued for the bridge scandal. DarkCrawler posted:Haha, that's like putting a stop on all traffic of a small country over a petty political disagreement. Jeez, I never understood how much traffic actually passes through the GWB.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:27
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frest posted:I keep seeing or hearing non-commuters saying, "oh big deal it's just a little traffic why is this even a story," typically while acknowledging that it is lovely for a politican to be that naked with their petty vendettas. Do you guys really drive that often? Maybe I grew up biased from being walking distance from Princeton Jct growing up, but everyone I knew who commuted in took the train, and wouldn't most of the bigshot financial types be taking the Lincoln/Holland tunnels anyway since the GWB puts you out so far uptown?
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Jan 17, 2014 18:06
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Someone with a good knowledge of NJ Politics please answer these question: 1. Is impeachment a real possibility in this case? 2. Though it's clearly an apples/oranges thing, how does Bridge-aster 2014 compare to former VA Gov Bob McDonnell's scandal?
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Jan 17, 2014 18:08
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AA is for Quitters posted:Do you guys really drive that often? Maybe I grew up biased from being walking distance from Princeton Jct growing up, but everyone I knew who commuted in took the train, and wouldn't most of the bigshot financial types be taking the Lincoln/Holland tunnels anyway since the GWB puts you out so far uptown? Never underestimate the appeal of driving your Porsche to work. I carpool in a CNG company-branded Honda Civic, and every time I see a $60,000+ personal vehicle schlepping into the city it kind of blows my mind, but they're there. Hell, yesterday we were behind an Audi A8 with a physician-branded vanity plate "TEEN MD" and that's just  I mean I can understand why contractors are commuting in their F-350s, but it's still 
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Jan 17, 2014 18:21
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hi liter posted:Someone with a good knowledge of NJ Politics please answer these question: I'm a transplant to the state so I can't speak to ancient history, but they didn't impeach Corzine or McGreevy so I really doubt it. If anything the general feeling I get from talking to people is that they're just out to kneecap the poo poo out of him and eliminate any further national ambitions. "If he did such a poor job of distancing himself from this thing that someone tags him with it, then he deserves indictment/federal charges," is something I heard verbatim in the office today.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:26
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frest posted:I keep seeing or hearing non-commuters saying, "oh big deal it's just a little traffic why is this even a story," typically while acknowledging that it is lovely for a politican to be that naked with their petty vendettas. It boggles my mind how anyone who has ever been in a car can even say this with a straight face. I live in the mid-west and used to commute into and out of Chicago, into the surrounding major suburbs, I occasionally still hit rush hour traffic, etc. and people lose their goddamned minds in traffic. Especially people who aren't already used to a multi-hour commute and don't understand why they are on a road with cars that aren't moving. Anyone who says this is just being disingenuous, if it affected them in the slightest and they found out someone caused it on purpose they would be out for blood.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:31
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frest posted:I'm a transplant to the state so I can't speak to ancient history, but they didn't impeach Corzine or McGreevy so I really doubt it. If anything the general feeling I get from talking to people is that they're just out to kneecap the poo poo out of him and eliminate any further national ambitions. "If he did such a poor job of distancing himself from this thing that someone tags him with it, then he deserves indictment/federal charges," is something I heard verbatim in the office today.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:56
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Guy A. Person posted:It boggles my mind how anyone who has ever been in a car can even say this with a straight face. I live in the mid-west and used to commute into and out of Chicago, into the surrounding major suburbs, I occasionally still hit rush hour traffic, etc. and people lose their goddamned minds in traffic. Especially people who aren't already used to a multi-hour commute and don't understand why they are on a road with cars that aren't moving. Anyone who says this is just being disingenuous, if it affected them in the slightest and they found out someone caused it on purpose they would be out for blood. The general sentiment of someone stuck in NY/NJ rush-hour traffic, even if they're on a bus, is along the lines of "If someone is not dead at the end of this line I will kill them myself." Imagine feeling that kind of rage every work day and now you know what it is like to commute to New York. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 19:09
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Oxxidation posted:The general sentiment of being stuck in NY/NJ rush-hour traffic, even if they're on a bus, is along of the lines of "If someone is not dead at the end of this line I will kill them myself." Now imagine how it feels to get to your exit after 2.5 grueling hours and see people going further STILL on the highway with Pennsylvania plates 
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Jan 17, 2014 19:27
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Oxxidation posted:The general sentiment of being stuck in NY/NJ rush-hour traffic, even if they're on a bus, is along of the lines of "If someone is not dead at the end of this line I will kill them myself." Oh I totally get that. I haven't experienced anything more than a small taste of what NY/NJ rush-hour is probably like every day and I have still seen people do insane poo poo (drive off road and flip/ditch their car, leaning out windows screaming at eachother, the infamous "merge in from a right turn/exit only" lane). My point is, with the way people act even out here I can't imagine anyone who has ever sat in any type of traffic making those sorts of comments. You either haven't ever been in real traffic before or you are lying to yourself about how soul crushing it is, and also being a flippant dick about it.
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Jan 17, 2014 19:36
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I am partial to personality/temperament analyses so it's probably more compelling to me than to you, but here's George Packer's take on Nixonian Christie: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2014/01/the-trouble-with-christie.html
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Jan 17, 2014 23:43
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AA is for Quitters posted:Do you guys really drive that often? Maybe I grew up biased from being walking distance from Princeton Jct growing up, but everyone I knew who commuted in took the train, and wouldn't most of the bigshot financial types be taking the Lincoln/Holland tunnels anyway since the GWB puts you out so far uptown? You live near Washington Road? Yeah, everyone in my area just takes the train to NYC. Hell, they've got these great big double-decker cattle-car looking things that like thousands of people can fit inside of every morning. I think the ticket price is high though, like maybe $20 or more a day to commute.
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Jan 18, 2014 07:58
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frest posted:That was something I was very willing to consider. That all of circus, all this meant was that some SVP at a financial was stuck on the bridge for 4 hours, and goddamnit if they don't lobby too hard to put up with this poo poo. Business owners don't want any disruptions to their profits from political characters acting out--hence why the rove part of the republican party wants to primary tea party candidates. A boring, personality-devoid rubber-stamper is the business owner's best friend, and these kinds of politicians can get elected easily on local and state levels (where the population doesn't pay attention). However, you can't be boring to get elected on a national scale, where for many, voting is like a sports fandom--you have to have charm, charisma, or bravado to win votes. Christie is a candidate-hopeful for the republicans for this reason, but here he might have gone too far and shown himself to be too much a risk to business owners. Inside Out Mom posted:Can't wait to laugh at the big billboard on Rt80 that says "Chris Christie, Keep up the good work!" if this jerk is removed from power. Rodatose fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Jan 18, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 10:47
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Thundercracker posted:Keeping the trains/roads running is probably the most thing in the world to keep New York/NJ prosperous. A lot of companies, especially finance, depends on their workers being able to arrive on time. A delay of that magnitude could easily cost millions for a firm even if for one day. This is doubly a problem for Christie because if he was going to win the presidency, it was going to be on the backs of the rich rear end in a top hat wing of the republican party. If somebody in Fort Lee missed on some multimillion dollar deal because some of Christie's aides got a bug up their rear end about some random democrat then he can kiss their support goodbye.
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Jan 18, 2014 12:42
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The Mayor of Hoboken is on Up on MSNBC right now, with notes showing the governors office threatened to withhold Sandy aid unless she agreed to certain redevelopment projects they wanted.
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Jan 18, 2014 15:14
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Teddybear posted:The Mayor of Hoboken is on Up on MSNBC right now, with notes showing the governors office threatened to withhold Sandy aid unless she agreed to certain redevelopment projects they wanted. Here's the accompanying article with more detail: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage
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Jan 18, 2014 15:22
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comes along bort posted:Here's the accompanying article with more detail: Seems like even the loyalists aren't able to handle it. If Christie worms himself out of this, I'm just going to walk to Canada, gently caress it, gently caress this country. Using hurricane relief efforts as bargaining chips? Disgusting.
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Jan 18, 2014 16:16
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Seems like even the loyalists aren't able to handle it. To be fair, this is New Jersey. Our last governor "lost" billions of dollars and walked away without so much as a subpoena. The governor before him was farming out high-level positions to his secret gay lover. At one point, I'm pretty sure the Senate was running a Zionist organ-harvesting cabal on the side, and no, there is no joke in this sentence. One of the reasons Christie does so well here is because NJ's numb to most forms of corruption by now.
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Jan 18, 2014 17:03
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Oxxidation posted:To be fair, this is New Jersey. Our last governor "lost" billions of dollars and walked away without so much as a subpoena. The governor before him was farming out high-level positions to his secret gay lover. At one point, I'm pretty sure the Senate was running a Zionist organ-harvesting cabal on the side, and no, there is no joke in this sentence. So, when I went to sleep last night, did I wake up in a world written by DC loving Comics!?
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Jan 18, 2014 17:10
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BottledBodhisvata posted:So, when I went to sleep last night, did I wake up in a world written by DC loving Comics!? Given this article leads with a picture of Rabbis getting arrested I'd say it is a strong possibility: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2009/07/organ_failure.html
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Jan 18, 2014 17:35
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Given this article leads with a picture of Rabbis getting arrested I'd say it is a strong possibility: That's seriously loving surreal.
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Jan 18, 2014 18:00
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