How to negotiate offers?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > How to negotiate offers?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Ethanfr0me posted:

I'm about to leave my current job for the new one, and my old company has asked if I would be willing to do consulting on the side since there are certain processes i've built from the ground up, and they may need assistance from time to time. What terms should I iron out with them before accepting? Should I get my current salary (divided to a per hr. rate), or are there some guidelines for doing this sort of thing?

I work for a boutique consulting firm and our hourly rates are between $185-500/hr depending on the person and experience. Keep in mind that you also get to pay taxes on your consulting income.

If you keep your rates high, they also won't bug you for dumb poo poo they should solve on their own. That keeps you sane.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2014 22:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 19:25

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Why the gently caress would you tell a potential employer they are your last choice? Do you just not think through the logical consequences of your actions, or what?

# ¿ May 1, 2014 02:55

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Your wife has a good negotiating position in that she's being paid under market and the scope of her duties is increasing. It is very reasonable to expect more money.

# ¿ May 1, 2014 18:33

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

If you're a recent graduate, how do you have impressive qualifications? I don't mean this in a mean way, really more curious than anything.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2014 14:12

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

There's no downside to negotiating especially if you have the potential for other offers. There is nothing cocky about asking for a match, especially if you have a higher dollar offer in hand.

If you can draw a direct line from what makes you special to the job's responsibilities, that helps you negotiate more effectively.

# ¿ Aug 22, 2014 15:43

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

If you're easily replaceable, you don't have a ton of leverage - sure, the cost of replacing you isn't zero, but if you are fundamentally a fungible commodity, you don't have much. I'd discuss with your actual manager what the paths for advancement/salary increase are, and if you can come up with necessary outcomes, schedule, and timeline, you're good to go. It will at least give you an understanding of what it will take to move you up.

Keep in mind also that based on your benefits package, your total comp is going up significantly, so that further diminishes your leverage.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2014 13:08

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Even if the new employer provides you with an offer, they can rescind that at any time.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 17:08

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

asur posted:

This is true, but for most large corporations it's going to be much harder to fire someone once they're employed than to do do midway through the hiring process.

Absolutely. Just saying that having the offer isn't some sort of iron clad employment contract.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 17:22

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

It sounds like you're getting ready to suck Jeff Bezos' dick. Tone it back.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 13:01

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

HonorableTB posted:

would keep me from the apparently toxic corporate culture of the office space.

You're delusional, you'll get all of the spillover with none of the ability to mitigate any of its negative effects.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2014 19:03

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

HonorableTB posted:

I don't see how you're coming to this conclusion.

The way you navigate a toxic culture, or mitigate its effects, is to develop back-channel relationships with your colleagues, managers and managers of other departments you interface with. That way, when poo poo goes wrong, you are the Good Guy. If you are the guy working in Atlanta while everyone else is working in Seattle, all of those folks will do you in the worst way possible when anything goes wrong. You won't have the connections to deflect blame, because gently caress it, nobody actually knows you, so why would they stick up for you?

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 02:57

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Mary loving Poppins posted:

Would anybody be willing to PM me and help look at a combination non-compete+confidentiality+invention agreement?

Get a lawyer that specializes in noncompetes to look at it.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 13:07

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Mary loving Poppins posted:

I had a lawyer friend look at it and I get what it says. I guess I'm struggling with whether to sign it. If I don't sign I'm out of a job (merger). It has a holdover clause that states I need to be penpals with my employer for a year after I leave and disclose all my future inventions. What's to stop me from saying I took a job as a janitor and I don't invent anything anymore? Maybe that's another question for a lawyer.

You need to figure out what the potential consequences are, and a lawyer can help you with that.

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 17:17

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

You've learned a good lesson, which is that you should probably know what you value the job at before you start interviewing.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2014 14:48

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Mary loving Poppins posted:

Am I wasting my time and an interviewer's time if the position posts an "expected max starting salary" that is significantly below what I would accept? It's for a non-profit, but I do the same thing for a non-profit right now and get paid 20% more - and that's still well below the market rate for the same job at a for-profit company. If it's worth pursuing, how can I delicately broach the subject while making it clear I need at least 20% more? I know some people in this thread recommend trying to make up for a lower salary in other ways (vacation, 401k, etc.) but 20% is a long way to go...

Straight up you are going to make less money at a non-profit than a for-profit for an equivalent role, such that there are basically two market rates. If you absolutely need to be making what you are now+, I wouldn't bother.

# ¿ Nov 25, 2014 21:57

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

I would in fact NOT disclose who you have an offer from. The offer number (or its relative position) and your feelings about it should be sufficient if you want to leverage the offer.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2014 14:12

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

I think you should be far more firm, as you are not willing to go to level 1. Too much soft language.

Dear [contact],

Thank you for the offer! I'm very interested in working at [company], however I had a few questions / concerns about your offer that I'd appreciate if you could address before I make my final decision.

~~Probably the most important point~~ My primary concern is that your offer is for a level 1 role. As you know, I'm currently at level 2 at [currentco]. I have ~~also been in discussions with other companies as I undertake my job search and have~~ recently received ~~competing offers including several which were~~ multiple competing offers for level 3 opportunities with significantly higher total compensation. ~~Are you in a position to modify your offer to a [level 2 or 3] position?~~ Although I am very interested in working at $COMPANY, I would not be able to accept an offer from $COMPANY that is not competitive with the other offers I have received.

[Any other points, make sure you've covered any issues you have with the offer including 'soft' stuff like benefits / vacay]

I'm very excited by the opportunity to work at [company] and look forward to your responses to the above points.

Best regards,

# ¿ Dec 14, 2014 13:25

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Mary loving Poppins posted:

Thanks for the feedback. I received the offer, they asked for a response in 2 days, to which I asked for 3 and they agreed. I immediately emailed the other company and informed them of my need to respond in 3 days and asked if they had an update on when I might know. I also called late in the afternoon explaining the same in a voicemail but haven't heard back yet.

Alright, here's another question. The offer I did receive has a sizable employer contribution to a state pension fund, what appears to be a mandatory employee contribution to the pension, but no contribution to the 403(b). Maybe I'm uneducated here, but I don't want anything to do with a pension. I'd much rather manage my own retirement account. What are the chances of getting both the employer and employee contribution out of the pension and into the 403(b)?

Some state pension funds exist in place of social security. You might want to check that.

What is the primary concern around the pension fund? I would say that your odds of getting the employer contribution in to a 403(b) are zero.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2015 22:54

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Deegan posted:

Looking for a little guidance.

I work at 20+ employee company. My hourly rate is well below the average for a CAD manager at most companys in the midwest. I haven't had a raise in three years. And we have zero reviews or formal processes. I've managed my butt off and have prevented us from losing $800k+ in contracts in the last 3 months. I am listed as the Cad Manager on large legal contracts, and our clients interact with me as the CAD Manager, but am listed as a technician on company sheets. I am paid as a technician. I am not looking specifically for the title promotion, just a pay increase reflective of the job I've been doing for the last 3 years. A cad tech 3, or a Cad Manager at the lower end of the curve in the Midwest, makes $65k or $32/hour. That would be a $8/hr or $16k raise. To replace me they would be paying at least $35/hour +overtime

I am going to send my payraise request directly to the president next week. We are a small company and I've been been working directly with him on our largest CAD project ever. (the one I just saved) I was managing his role on the project because he decided to take a production role instead of PM the project himself. He was too intimidated by the scope and impact of this project.

Any advice or good resources for typing a request for a pay raise?

tldr: I'm going to email a request for a pay raise. Any advice?

Yeah, get a job offer from a competitor that you would be keen on accepting ASAP.

Also, probably gently caress your company in the ear and get a new job anyway.

# ¿ May 28, 2015 22:14

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

If you know when you're getting married (which you probably should...) why don't you say you have vacations scheduled around that time as a going-in position? Don't ask, tell, on that one.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2015 22:45

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Teeter posted:

Thanks for all that. What seems like a lot of money for me may not be the case for a large company and it helps to have things put in perspective from their side of things.

One thing I want to elaborate on: my current retirement plan is loving fantastic. I have a 403(b) with an employer contribution of 10% gross salary, immediately vested, no match or anything required on my part. Even with my much lower pay currently it ends up being a lot of free money. My new rate of 3% just can't compete with that so I will be paying a lot more out of pocket to get the same contributions. How much of this information do I disclose with them? Beyond just informing them that I'd be leaving behind a better plan, will it help to let them know flat-out that I'm getting that 10% currently?

I think it's to your advantage to disclose the terms plan. It's a big portion of your current compensation and you would be giving it up, and it allows you to ask for something that compensates for that specific loss in pay.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2015 16:16

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

That internal project checks all the good boxes of being political, highly visible, and fundamentally valueless.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2015 12:21

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

To Vex a Stranger posted:

Probably poorly phrased my original post, I've not been on this project the entire time I've been at the company. I was there for about 8 months traveling to another client site, then was on the bench for a few weeks along with a large number of other consultants on my team, then finally got on this project.

Why do you say "valueless"? Always confused me when people claim that doing internal work doesn't give you experience. You are doing the technical poo poo, dealing with the same (if not more) bullshit that clients put you through, and you are still managing your teams. Maybe valueless for the company, but certainly not from a "I'm learning this technology or growing my team" point of view. Non-sarcastic here, WHAT about it makes it valueless?

As to Xandu's point, I was promised a promotion at 6 months at the company. They didn't follow through with that, my manager has not helped at any of the other set promotion points, 20% of our team is consistently on the bench, and generally our management is dragging its feet on everything. I figured it's either time to move to another team or to pursue the other options I have outside of the company, though I was planning on hitting the 2 year mark so my 401k match vested.

No one inside your company actually gives a gently caress whether you use Skype for business or Lync. It's an eminently forgettable project.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2015 21:19

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

To Vex a Stranger posted:

Wasn't my question, but I understand what you are trying to say. Thanks for the insight.

You asked why it is valueless, and I answered. The only way anyone will remember the Great Conferencing Software Changeover Project in two years is if it's a loving debacle. The ultimate outcomeof the project is that nobody notices. You may learn things, but they aren't anything that you could not have learned on client facing projects where you actually made the firm money and added value.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2015 14:24

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

At my firm internal projects go to people who a) we know are leaving soon and need something to ride it out and provide some value or b) we want to get the gently caress out.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2015 20:02

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Baby Babbeh posted:

Sometimes giving a range works out for you. Last time I switched jobs, when asked I told them my real range+10 percent, and then they gave me the top of that range for some reason. I'm not sure if I'm good at negotiating or this company is just bad at it.

Thought experiment: what if you had just told them the top of your range plus 10%?

# ¿ Aug 5, 2015 13:03

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

ProSlayer posted:

A lot of places won't even consider you without you providing one.

Give a big number.

If you must give a range, think of the top of your actual range, and then use that as the bottom of your imaginary range which is the one you tell the person.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2015 21:04

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Saint Fu posted:

Personally, I'd abort. Just say you knew him/her and and they seemed like a nice person but you couldn't really evaluate their job performance because you never worked on the same projects or something. Not saying that's the right answer, just what I'd do.

Don't do this, it's avoidant and childish.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2015 14:53

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Saint Fu posted:

Really? I've always thought talking down about people behind their back was childish. I guess it is avoidant though.

How is it childish to provide an accurate assessment of a potential colleague to a supervisor? This isn't a social question. Obviously you shouldn't try to be a dick or say anything that is not factual, but stuff like "This person had difficulty meeting deadlines" is hard to dispute.

I have good relationships with my supervisors, though, so I would not be at all concerned about anything blowing back on me.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2015 15:47

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

To do what, exactly?

# ¿ Sep 12, 2015 15:58

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

If you've given them a target which they have surpassed you don't really get to go back and say "welllllllllllllllllllll now that I actually did my homework I want more money"

# ¿ Oct 12, 2015 18:33

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Is the bonus a significant amount of your total comp? My job is like... 30% of total comp is bonus, so that would be a non-starter (we prorate bonuses)

# ¿ Oct 12, 2015 21:27

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

I would find out exactly how the firm determines bonuses.

edit: the less specific this is, the less likely you are to see money

# ¿ Oct 13, 2015 12:51

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Chaotic Flame posted:

I guess I'm not being clear. I was told that there is a 10% bonus. You get this if you "meet expectations" at your year-end review. If you do better than "meets expectations" your bonus is higher.

so if i do better than meets expectations, what is the resulting bonus? 11%? 20%?

how am i measured for this review, what are the metrics used to decide if I meet expectations or not? If they're not objective metrics I guaran-loving-tee you that very few people "Do better than meets expectations" on an annual basis.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2015 15:16

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Ask what % of employees receive a 10% bonus and what % receive greater than 10%.

# ¿ Oct 13, 2015 22:07

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Rationale posted:

Right now I work for a union contractor in the piping industry as an installer. Recently, I was approached by a service technician who told me to get in contact with his hiring manager because I scored very well on an aptitude test.

Since the base pay rate is collectively negotiated, the prospective employer will know exactly what I'm paid. However, service technicians are typically given several perks not available to installers (paid vacation, take-home vehicle) and are expected to work overtime.

Furthermore, the aptitude test was the first round of an ongoing apprenticeship competition that will wrap up when I either lose out or gain recognition as the best at what I do in three countries. I'm not particularly confident in the latter. I'm just not sure that this will be the last job offer.

What's my best play here?

What's the downside to participating in the apprenticeship competition?

# ¿ Jan 27, 2016 18:34