|
Do you wonder what kind of person would jump out of a perfectly good airplane? Have you done a tandem skydive and want to do it again? Are you a skygod with thousands of jumps? Are you intrigued by the adventures of Jeb Corliss?  Or the powered human flight of Yves “Jet Man” Rossy?  Did you see Felix Baumgartner fall from the edge of space and say wow?  Are you a 100 year old granny thinking about doing a Tandem Base Jump?  Or did you just watch Point Break one too many times? If so, this might be the thread for you. This is the skydiving megathread and this is the place to talk about the incredibly crazy act of throwing yourself at the Earth with only a few small pieces of nylon to save you. If you want to talk about places to jump, events, skygods, gear, if you want advice on buying a rig, if you want to talk about whuffo law makers or noise abatement people griping about airports that have been there longer than they've been alive, if you want to post gruesome accident video, or awesome competition video. Although it’s titled the skydiving thread, this is the place to talk about all forms of sport parachuting, including B.A.S.E. jumping, paragliding and speed-flying, too. We can even talk about tunnel flying if you really want to. If it's remotely sport parachuting related, this is the place to talk about it. Who am I? I am a USPA licensed skydiver with close to 150 jumps as of 24 Jan 2014. I've had my license since July 19, 2013. I did my first tandem jump in 2005, then went on to start skydiving solo seven and a half years later (April 2013). I've bought my own gear, moved past beginner into novice stage and am starting to smell the bottom of intermediate. I've been in the sport less than a year. I still suck at many things. I have never gone (and probably will never go) B.A.S.E. Jumping, but I have several friends who do. I am not an expert and I do not know everything. I have tried to be as accurate as I can with this, but I'm sure I screwed one thing or another up. I'm not here to be the expert, I'm here to share my love of skydiving with other skydiving goons and goons who are interested in skydiving. Before we start talking everything cool about these sports, I’m not trying to scare you away but I want to address this up front: Skydiving is a dangerous activity. Every time you partake in any form of sport parachuting, there is the very real possibility that you could die or suffer serious injury. No amount of safety innovations, experience or training will remove that danger. You could be on your 8000th jump, do everything right and still suffer a life-altering or fatal accident. No matter how good you are, You will never be good enough to not die in this sport. Despite this very real danger, Skydiving is the safest of the “extreme” sports. Skydivers enjoy the lowest premiums on life insurance of all technical sports participants. In 2013 there were more than 3.1 million skydives performed world-wide, but only 51 resulted in a fatality, and in the U.S., there were only 915 injuries. If you choose to engage in skydiving, you need to be fully conscious of the dangers involved. Contrary to the public image, there are very few real adrenaline junkies in Skydiving. Skydivers are deadly serious about safety. Those who aren’t are quickly ostracized from the community -and it’s a small community- because nobody wants to jump with somebody who will deliberately put other people in danger. True adrenaline junkies don’t last long in skydiving before moving on to something else. The Basics The question I hear most is Why would anybody jump out of a perfectly good airplane? People always ask this of skydivers, but they rarely ask pilots if they like being passengers on airplanes. I do it because tucked into that container on my back are two perfectly good inflatable wings that I can control, fly and land myself. So what is it that we actually do? Skydiving is the same no matter where you go or what language you speak. You put on a parachute and altimeter, cram into a tightly packed airplane and ride it to 14,000 feet above the ground, open the door, throw yourself into the wind and fly. After about a minute of total freedom, you slow yourself down, relax and then deploy a parachute. When you have a functioning parachute over your head, you then fly back to a holding area where you are free to do acrobatics, or just sit and enjoy the view until you descend to a certain altitude at which point you enter a pre-determined landing traffic pattern, turn your canopy downwind, cross-wind and finally into the wind for landing. The whole experience, from exit to landing lasts just a few minutes, but it is the biggest rush you will ever feel. Most of us love the rush we get from Skydiving, but contrary to popular opinion, it’s not an adrenal rush. Skydivers are not usually adrenaline junkies. Students will feel the fear, panic and adrenaline, but somewhere along the way, the panic goes away and the adrenaline stops kicking in. (The fear doesn’t, it just gets less intense). One friend wore a heart monitor for a day of skydiving and found that his highest heart rate occurred while he was running the 30 yards to the plane. The rush comes from overcoming your fear and being in total control in a situation that you have absolutely no business being in control of. There are almost as many reasons for jumping as there are people who jump, but a common thread is that skydivers always dreamed of flying. My reason is that freefall is one of the few times in life where absolutely nothing matters except for the moment you’re in. Not yesterday, not tomorrow, not two minutes from now, but right this second. The level of focus is unlike anything else. The love of the sport comes from being in total control. And you are in control. Once you hit terminal velocity, the air is pushing against you as fast as you are falling which gives the sensation of floating. Small movements of your body, even as simple as turning your head can cause changes of direction, pitch, or attitude. Once you learn to control those movements, the sky becomes a playground. What kind of gear do you use? This kind:  All modern skydiving parachutes are single-harness, dual-parachute (or canopy) systems (or rigs) containing one main and one reserve parachute. All modern canopies, both main and reserve are ram-air parachutes, which are essentially an inflatable wing which responds to control inputs using all the same principles of flight as a rigid wing. The canopies are composed of seven or nine cells -which are independent air chambers in the fabric of the canopy. Seven cell canopies tend to be slightly softer, more docile and more forgiving than equivalently sized, shaped, and loaded nine cell canopies. Reserve chutes are always seven-cell canopies.  Seven Cell Canopy (Reserve)  Nine Cell Canopy Despite what you see in GTA V, only the front of the cells are actually open. the back is completely sealed – air enters the cells in the front at the speed of your descent, which produces enough pressure to keep the cells inflated and keep the wing some-what rigid (and they are rigid. A skydiver in freefall impacting an inflated canopy is going to suffer some serious decelleration injuries). Ram air canopies are safer than the old round canopies in every respect. Ram Air parachutes commonly come in three different shapes: Square, Semi-Elliptical and Elliptical. When viewed from above, a square parachute is rectangular, while an elliptical parachute is tapered and a semi-elliptical is somewhere between the two. This isn't entirely accurate, but it is the commonly held view. Performance Designs, one of the leading canopy makers refers to its canopies as square or tapered, because no tapered canopy is trully elliptical, and the taper differs from canopy to canopy. The taper of the wing improves airflow and reduces drag, making the canopy faster and more responsive, so typically you will hear of advanced canopy pilots using 'Elliptical canopies'.  PD (Performance Designs) Navigator, a square student canopy. Note that the end cells are just as long as the middle cells.  PD Sabre 2, a semi-elliptical canopy. Note the gradual taper of the end cells.  NZ Aerosports Icarus JVX, an elliptical canopy. Note the deliberate taper of the end cells. Far more important than the taper is the canopy size and wing-load. Canopy sizes are measured in square footage of the surface area of the canopy. Or something like that because no two canopy manufacturers measure exactly the same way. Skydiving canopies measure from an experimental 39 sq.ft. canopy to a massive 400+ sq.ft tandom canopy. The larger a canopy, the more docile it will be, and the smaller a canopy, the more quickly it will react to input, regardless of the wingloading. This is partly because the lines of a smaller canopy are shorter, so the distance between the wing and the pilot is less. Never-the-less, wingloading is an important factor in selecting and flying a parachute and is the leading factor on how fast and responsive a particular canopy is. (ie: of two equivalently sized parachutes, the one with the higher wingloading will be more responsive and reactive to control inputs, and will have a higher descent rate). The Wing Load of a canopy is a ratio of the pilot's exit weight over the size of the canopy. Exit weight is the weight of the person and all of the gear they are wearing when exiting the aircraft. Typically gear can weigh anywhere between 15 and 40 pounds. So for example, if a person has an exit weight of 190 lbs and they are flying a 240 sq.ft. canopy (a typical student size), they have a wingload of .79:1. This is usually just expressed as .79. The goal -until you become a much more proficient canopy pilot- is to be below 1:1. (that's a little hypocritical of me to say, since I've been flying WL of 1.15:1 since August, but downsizing too quickly and taking on a higher wingloading than your experience dictates is the leading cause of injuries in the sport. 32% of all injuries and fatalities in the sport occur during landing. Not all of those are related to wing-load, but it's definitely a contributing factor in the vast majority of them.) The Harness-Container system is a specially made backpack which fits two canopies in separate sealed trays which are held closed by small nylon closing loops which are helt in place by metal pins. All containers have two shoulder straps, a chest strap which links the shoulder straps together and two adjustable leg straps. Somewhere on the shoulder straps will be a cut-away handle and a reserve deployment handle. The reserve deployment handle links directly to the reserve pin. It's also frequently what you see movie skydivers pull as their "Rip Cord". Although some containers in use today do still have a rip cord for their main canopy, it is rare to see one except on student and Tandem containers. The canopies are attached to the container by nylon straps called risers. The main canopy is attached using a three-ring system which allows the skydiver to detach (or cut-away) the main canopy from the system by pulling the cut-away handle. You would do this if you had some malfunction that rendered the canopy unflyable. The reserve canopy is attached to risers which are part of the harness and so cannot be cut away or lost. The canopies are folded and tucked into small bags, (The Deployment bag for the main and the Free-bag for the reserve). The canopies are typically slightly too large for the bags, which desperately want to slip off, thus ensuring that the canopies do not get stuck in the bags and fail to inflate. Modern parachutes are opened using a hand-deployed pilot chute which usually sits in an elastic and cordura pouch on the bottom of the container.  The pilot chute is a small round parachute with a long lanyard, called a bridle, which is is attached to the pin holding the main canopy tray closed, and also attached to the deployment bag and main canopy. It is pulled by hand and thrown into the wind, where it inflates rapidly and decelerates above the skydiver, pulling the pin and allowing the main canopy flaps to open.  It continues to pull until it has pulled the D-bag from the tray and the lines -which are typically held on the d-bag by rubber bungies- reach 'line stretch'. Once the lines go completely straight and taut, they pull the main out of the d-bag, allowing the main canopy to inflate. Depending on how the canopy was packed, it could take between three and ten seconds for it to start to inflate, during which time you are still falling at near terminal velocity. It is quite common for the skydiver to lose a thousand feet of altitude between pull and inflate.  The reserve chute is deployed using a spring-loaded pilot chute, which fires as soon as the reserve pin comes loose, and causes the reserve to reach line stretch sooner, thus more rapidly inflating the reserve. New parachute rigs have a number of improvements and safety features over rigs of just a decade ago. The first, and most important, is the Automatic Activation Device. Essentially a small computer with a sensitive air pressure gauge linked to an electric cutter attached to the reserve closing loop, the AAD monitors altitude and descent rate. At a preset altitude (say 700 feet AGL), if the skydiver's speed is above a preset limit (say 70 mph), the AAD will automatically cut the loop holding the reserve tray closed, which allows the spring loaded pilot chute to escape, deploying the reserve. These devices are not without their flaws, for example, some have gone off despite the skydiver flying a good main canopy, resulting in a two-out situation.  Notice the reserve inflating behind him as he approaches the pond, also the spring loaded reserve pilot chute and free bag looking like a balloon behind him. The other issue people don't consider is that the device will not activate under a certain minimum altitude, so if they do have to cut away a malfunctioning main canopy for some reason, they're pretty well hosed. (Better in that case to not cut away and manually deploy the reserve. Better two have a two-out than a no-out.) The other important safety feature is the Reserve Static Line or RSL. The RSL is a small lanyard which connects the reserve pin to the main risers. In the event of a cut-away, the main risers will pull the RSL with them as they fly away from the harness, and pull the reserve pin automatically. A newer form of this, available from only a handful of container manufacturers is something called the Skyhook. The skyhook works like an RSL, but instead of just pulling the pin, it is also attached to the reserve pilot chute and freebag. This has the effect of using the main canopy as the pilot chute for the reserve, thus speeding up deployment even more. All modern containers come with the RSL, and have pouches for the AAD, but for whatever reason, older  skydivers tend to eschew these devices as uncool or unnecessary, regardless of the tens of thousands of lives they've saved.A discomforting percentage of the 'failed to deploy the reserve' fatalities in the last ten years were found with their RSL disconnected. So who runs this show? or Can I just buy a parachute and go? Skydiving is a world-wide phenomenon. There are more than 1200 sport parachute drop zones in 81 countries around the world. Belarus has one.  !!!! So do                  and of course  Even Cuba has a drop zone. Individual countries frequently have their own parachute associations which regulate skydiving within their country, here’s a short and not comprehensive list: United States Parachute Association (USPA) Canadian Sport Parachute Association (CSPA) Australian Parachute Federation British Parachute Association New Zealand Parachute Federation Deutscher Fallschirmsport Verband Dansk Faldskaerm Union Fédération Française de Parachutisme Confederação Brasileira de Paraquedismo Parachutespringen Holland Swedish Parachute Organization Parachute Association of South Africa Swiss Parachuting Association Österreichischer Aero-Club Norwegian Airsports Federation Skydiving world-wide is generally governed by the International Parachuting Commission, a bureau of the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale. Individual countries’ associations are typically members of the FAI/IPC. As members, they agree to common standard requirements for licensing, which allows a licensed skydiver to participate in the sport at any FAI member’s affiliated drop zone, anywhere in the world, regardless of which association issued the license. Some, like the one in Interlaken Switzerland, accept different licenses, but require a certain number of jumps. As a note, affiliated dropzones are DZs that belong to a particular association, not necessarily in the same country. For example, there are USPA affiliated DZs all over the world. Some DZs are affiliated with multiple associations. So how do you get started? The first thing to do is find a dropzone near you that is a teaching center. The USPA maintains a listing of affiliated drop zones around the world, which you can access online here: http://www.uspa.org/FindaDZ.aspx The British Parachute Association maintains listing of BPA affiliated drop zones here: http://www.bpa.org.uk/where-can-i-jump/ If you don’t live in the U.S. or Britain, or don’t want to pursue a USPA or BPA license, your country’s association website or magazine will have similar listings for your area. If you can’t find it there, there is an unofficial listing on Dropzone.com, here: http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone/ If you don’t live in the U.S. or Britain but do want to pursue a USPA or BPA license, you’re in luck. There are USPA and BPA affiliated drop zones around the world. Except in Britain and America. That is, there are no USPA affiliated drop zones in the U.K., and no BPA affiliated drop zones in the U.S. Don’t ask me why. (This doesn’t really matter for the USPA, all you need is one USPA licensed instructor at the drop zone to do your coach jumps and sign your log book and proficiency card, even if the DZ itself isn’t affiliated. I’m not sure if the BPA is the same way). No matter where you are, there are three methods currently used to teach skydiving. These are AFF, IAD and Static line. Some places will suggest or require a tandem jump before starting one of these, but many do not, so strictly speaking, it’s not a requirement. Some people like the IAD method because it’s cheaper and you go solo sooner, some prefer AFF because you start freefall at altitude right away. There are benefits and drawbacks to each system. Suffice to say, all of them teach you to skydive using modern sport parachutes and prepare you to safely skydive on your own. Both styles put you through the ground school on what your equipment is, how to use it, emergency procedures, how to fly and land your parachute, and how to get stable in freefall. Accelerated Free-fall  AFF. There are seven levels to AFF after the ground school. Each level is a test with specific requirements. If you fail, you have to repeat a level. For every jump, you ride to normal jump altitude (between 10,000 and 14,000 feet above ground level, depending on the drop zone, the aircraft, and the weather conditions), and deploy your own parachute. For levels 1-3, you and two instructors, one on each side of you, holding on to your harness and handles on your jumpsuit, exit the plane. They hold you, watch you, give hand-signal instructions, make sure you can get stable, have altitude awareness, and can find the deployment handle on your chute (by doing three practice pulls) and deploy it yourself. Some people don’t deploy by themselves on the first jump (although as long as they exited the plane, didn’t panic, maintained some altitude awareness, and landed the parachute, they usually pass the first level. On the second level, they may not pull it properly themselves either, but as long as they made the effort to pull it, they usually pass. To pass the third jump they must be able to fly stable and to pull it themselves). On the second and third jump, depending on how well you do, one or both of the instructors may let go of you during freefall (although they stay close enough to grab on again if you start to go unstable). On jump 4, the one instructor still holds on to you as you exit the plane and get stable, then lets you go and you do a controlled turn, 360 degrees in each direction. On jump 5, the instructor jumps out with you, but doesn’t hold you. You demonstrate that you can get stable on your own, do controlled turns at the cue of the instructor. On jump 6, you jump with the instructor, show that you can go unstable and then return to stable again, do exercises at the cue of the instructor, then track for five seconds away from the instructor, get stable and deploy the chute. Jump 7 is essentially a solo jump. Your instructor is there, but he or she is only there to watch and film you. You and the instructor leave the plane at the same time, then you demonstrate that you can do everything you learned on level 1-6 without being given any cues, while maintaining altitude awareness. Once you do, the instructor may swoop in to give you a :hi-five: or some other celebratory gesture and play around with you until you reach the break-off altitude, but you’re basically on your own. Instructor Assisted Deployment and Static Line IAD/SL. Static Line and IAD are virtually the same method. IAD is replacing Static line because it’s generally safer, but it’s the same principle. With static line jumping, you have a lanyard attaching your pilot chute to a cable in the aircraft. When you exit the plane, the static line becomes taut and then pulls out the pilot chute, thus automatically deploying your parachute. Static line is what militaries all over the world use. With IAD, the instructor sits in the plane and holds your bridle and pilot chute as you exit the aircraft, then throws them out after you.  There are five levels to IAD. I did AFF, so I don’t have experience with this, but in IAD, your first five jumps are from a lower altitude (typically 3500 – 5000 feet above ground level). You exit the plane and your chute is deployed automatically for you. On your first and second jump, you leave the aircraft and your chute is immediately deployed for you by either the static line or the instructor assist. On your third, fourth and fifth jump, you simulate finding and pulling the deployment handle, but the static line and instructor still deploy your chute for you. On your sixth jump, you do jump on your own, but you do what is called a hop-and-pop (that is, you deploy the chute as soon as you clear the aircraft), so you only get about 2-5 seconds of freefall. On jump seven, you jump from a slightly higher altitude and wait ten seconds before you deploy. On jump eight, you go higher and wait twenty seconds. On jump nine you go higher and wait thirty seconds, and so on until you get to full altitude. Whichever method you choose, once you complete the course, you are a qualified skydiver and are cleared to jump on your own from any altitude. Getting licensed Although you are a qualified skydiver, you are still considered a student until you obtain your license. As a student, you can do solo jumps to your heart’s content. However, you cannot jump with another person unless that person is an instructor and you are only permitted to jump in optimal wind and weather conditions. Each association has their own requirements, but generally they involve the same things. You must take a test, complete 25 skydives, including at least one low altitude hop and pop, show some measure of canopy handling ability, including the ability to land safely within a designated area, and complete a series of 2-way coach jumps where you demonstrate that you can control your body in the air on all axes and move in the air relative to another person. USPA SIM posted:A License Next Steps If you’re a German skydiver, congratulations, you had a few more requirements than the rest of us, but you've now completed all the schooling and licensing you need to jump to your heart’s content. There is no further required schooling or licensing unless you want to become an instructor. The German A license is valid for any and all forms of skydiving and has no restrictions on group size. For most of the rest of us, there are further licenses to obtain. The USPA system consists of licenses A-D. A requires 25 jumps, B requires 50, C requires 200, and D requires 500. There is no requirement to obtain B-D in order to continue skydiving, but if you want to progress to become a coach or instructor you must get them. While most DZs only care about your A License and how many logged jumps you have, some drop zones and events require a certain license to participate, regardless of your jump numbers. Furthermore, you do not have to get the licenses one after the other. If you get to 200 jumps without getting your B license, but meet all the requirements for B and C, you can go straight to your C License. USPA SIM posted:B License The BPA also has licenses A-D, but they are stricter about the requirements and have a more complicated system of ratings that you must obtain for each discipline outside of normal solo jumping. A and B can be obtained at 25 and 50 jumps respectively, while the C license requires 200 jumps. The D license requires 1000 jumps. The B license requires a specific Canopy Handling course and a Jump Master course. BPA certifications include FS, FF, CF, IS, CP, WS and SS. FS1 is Formation Skydiving level 1. This is belly-to-earth relative work with increasingly large groups. FF1 is Freefly level 1. This is head-up freeflying. CF1 is Canopy Formation 1. Flying in close formation with other canopy pilots. IS1 is Individual Style 1. This is classic solo ‘freestyle’ skydiving. The C License requires 200 jumps and at least one further qualification from the list above. This license opens up new disciplines, including WS 1&2, SS 1&2, FF2, and CP 1. It also allows you to begin coaching and begin using a camera when you jump. WS 1&2 are wingsuit flying. SS 1&2 is skysurfing. FF2 is Freefly level 2. This is head-down freeflying. CP 1 is advanced canopy piloting, which prepares you for smaller parachutes, higher wingloads, more radical maneuvers and faster landings. The D License requires 1000 jumps and is a requirement to become an AFF or Tandem instructor. CP2 (Canopy Piloting 2) is the final discipline certification. This chart explains the British system: 
My Q-Face fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 24, 2014 |
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:31 |
|
|
Disciplines, or,what to do when you're getting bored with simply jumping out of the plane, opening and landing the parachute? Before I started skydiving, that was the extent of what I knew about it. People went up in an airplane, left the airplane and came down under a parachute. I was vaguely aware of formation skydiving, the idea of four or eight or eighty people coming together in mid-air to make shapes, and I was aware of canopy accuracy but that was the extent of it. I certainly didn't realize these were specialized disciplines. Turns out, there's a lot more than that. In freefall there are several different methods available. You start out learning in the belly-to-earth orientation, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's the most stable and relaxed position, and the first thing you learn when learning to freefall. It's also the position which produces the least turbulance behind you, so it is the ideal position to be in when you deploy your chute. There are several freefall disciplines to learn Relative Work  This is classic belly-to-earth Formation Skydiving. You jump with other skydivers. This will be the first thing you do after getting your A license or FS1 certification. If two of you are jumping, it's a 2-way, if there's 3 of you it's a 3-way, 4 of you a 4-way. There's a certain threshold, usually in the world records range where they just call it a big-way. You'll start out with 2-ways, usually someone more experienced than you, once you learn to keep stable with that person, you will learn how to adjust your levels, that is, speed up or slow down your fall rate in order to get on the same horizontal plane as the other person. Once you've mastered that, you will move on to what is called turning points. Points are where you take a grip on a person in mid-skydive. Usually it's part of a pre-planned and rehearsed sequence or formation, and each time you completely let go of the other person and take a different grip, that's considered a point.  Turning points is how RW competitions are scored. The more stable you can fly relative to the other person, the easier it is to turn points. It is highly recommended by just about everybody that you get confident with RW flying 2-ways and 3-ways before moving on to anything else. Freeflying  This is a more recent invention and it's what all the cool kids do. Freeflying is basically any controlled freefall where your body is not parallel to the ground, belly-to-earth. This includes flying parallel to the ground back-to-earth, which is loving hard to do. When most people talk about freeflying, they mean vertical flying, either sit-flying, head-up or head-down, with your body perpendicular to the Earth.  But it also includes things like Angle flying or Atmonauti, and Tracing. Angle Flying is holding a stable position somewhere between vertical and horizontal flight and Atmonauti is doing that in formation with other people. Tracing is a combination of angle flying and tracking which is both a common basic skill and a separate specialization.  Freeflying typically results in higher freefall speeds than belly to earth, and the less of your body you present to the relative wind (that is, air coming from your primary direction of movement - when you exit the plane, the relative wind comes from the prop, as you transition to freefall, it comes from below you, i.e. between you and the earth, regardless of your horizontal movement.) As you decrease the surface area you present to the relative wind, your terminal velocity increases.  In a belly to earth orientation, depending on your weight and how much you're fighting the air beneath you, you typically fall between 120 and 130mph. In sit-fly, you approach average speeds of 150mph, in straight head-up vertical (ie: standing) you can easily hit 160 or more, and in head-down you get close to 180. (You can increase that by streamining your body. I've gotten head-down speeds of close to 275 mph., and the men's world record is 330mph.)  Vertical Formation Skydiving  A specialized subset of competition Freeflying, essentially vertical relative work. Most of the people who do this are professionals, sponsored athletes, or rich as gently caress, because it takes many hours of tunnel time (which runs about $1000 per hour) and in-air practice to gain the stability to be able to move in the close proximity this specialization demands at the speeds involved. Having said that, it's absolutely beautiful to watch either on video or in the tunnel. Tracking When you are learning how to skydive, you learn how to do tracking. Tracking is basically adjusting your body to decrease vertical movement and increase horizontal movement. You learn it while still a student because when you jump with another person, you want as much distance as possible between you and them when you deploy your parachute, so that you don't end up flying towards eachother at 35 kts. before you can take the controls. Canopy collisions are bad, every time. But the discipline of tracking requires more skill than simply flying away from somebody for 5 seconds. Tracking dives are meant to basically split your entire dive between vertical and horizontal flight, that is, covering as much ground as you can. Some people say this discipline is the one that feels the most like pure flight outside of wingsuiting. I disagree, I think that's tracing (angled-tracking), because you gain more speed and therefore more distance over the ground. Tracing also has the benefit of looking much much cooler:  Once you become sufficiently proficient at tracking (or tracing), you begin jumping with other people. Typically a minimum of three and a maximum of what's safe for the least skilled person in your group. One person becomes the rabbit and the rest of the trackers follow him in a formation and try to catch him as he flys a pattern around the drop zone. This one can be incredibly dangerous, especially because many newly licensed skydivers confuse the skill of tracking away from a formation with the discipline of tracking within a formation. Many misjudge their own skill at tracking, which can result in their being included in a larger formation than they are prepared to deal with, which can cause a hazard to other jumpers on the dive. It is also very easy for novice trackers to get disoriented and end up flying back along the jump run, thus endangering other groups of divers. Freestyle This is also a subset of freeflying. It's done solo (or two-way with one person just filming), but is essentially doing a gymnastics routine while doing vertical or angle flying, that is, turning very specific body positions as quickly and as stable as you can. It's impressive to watch videos of it, but that's really all I know about it, other than it is loving tough. Classic Style This is what freestyle grew out of. Style is also done solo, and is essentially doing gymnastics in the air, but from a horizontal orientation you perform a set routine of turns and loops. Wingsuiting  This is putting on an inflatable suit and pretending to be a bird. Wingsuiting is what it says on the tin. You wear a jumpsuit with large built-in wings between the arms and the torso, and between the legs. This has the effect of rendering your body incredibly aerodynamic, allowing you to fly like a bird or a glider over incredible distances. Wingsuits tend to slow the diver's fall-rate to 50mph or less (slightly more than a third of normal belly-fly terminal velocity). Some wingsuiters have been able to stretch out their flight time more than four minutes. One british stuntman was able to actually fly and land a wingsuit (along a special cardboard box runway) without deploying a parachute. Wingsuiting is awesome to watch when they're flying in a group formation, and a lot of B.A.S.E. jumpers use them to really stretch out their freefall time. That said, it's also one of the only disciplines to come with a high minimum jump requirement. You can't even take a wingsuit class until you've had 200 jumps. Camera flying Less of a strict discipline now that GoPros are ubiquitous, but being able to capture a skydive in midair using helmet mounted still and/or video cameras. This tends to require the user to be very -very- proficient at RW work. Most associations have minimum required jumps to use a camera, even a GoPro, in large part because it can change your profile to the wind, thus affecting your learned movements, and it presents a real hazard of being entangled in the bridle or the lines of the parachute during deployment and potentially cause serious injury. Most require at least 200 jumps, although Germany requires only 100. There are also canopy flying disciplines. Canopy flying these tend to be the most spectator friendly of all skydiving because it's the part you can actually watch live from the ground instead of seeing a video replay. These involve putting a canopy on a precise target, or flying the piss out of one in order to get the most speed and maneuverability you can. A note here: All canopies, regardless of size and wingloading, have a normal forward speed of 35 kts. Wingloading affects descent rate, but not forward movement. This speed can be controlled by manipulating the wing using risers or brakes to induce a dive or turn, or flattening out the wing in order to extend the horizontal glide, or sharply increasing the angle of attack in order to bleed off energy. By pointing the nose of the canopy down more than it naturally is, you can increase forward speed, and by pointing the nose of the canopy up more than it naturally is, you can decrease forward speed. -as a note, you can very easily bleed off too much speed or too quickly and induce a stall. Put simply, increased speed adds lift (which improves responsiveness and stability in flight, and is essential for landing). Decreased speed subtracts lift (which hurts responsiveness and stability, and can potentially cause the canopy to collapse when the air pressure on the front of the cells ceases to be enough to keep the wing pressurized.) Canopy piloting in general is another place where people seriously overestimate their ability and can put themselves and others at risk (even without taking up one of these disciplines). Many people think that because they've had a few good stand-up landings that they understand everything they need to know about flying and landing a canopy, and that's how 32% of injuries and fatalities occur during landing. As for the disciplines: Accuracy This is the oldest canopy discipline and was performed even under round canopies. It's what's written on the tin. The goal is to land on a 2cm metal target.  This grew from trying to guide a round canopy and land on a 16cm target 35 years ago, to a 10cm target in the early 90s to a 2cm target today. The canopies they use for this are extremely large and docile 7-cell canopies with low wingloads. Canopy Relative Work or CReW.  This is flying canopies in formation with 2, 4, 8 or 16 team members. Team members take grips of other canopies, stack jumpers on each other's canopies and generally fly in very close proximity to each other.  CReW pilots tend to use larger, slower canopies to reduce the chance of unexpected movement, and also because they can maintain lift longer in slow flight, which is essential for aligning your parachute with everybody else's. XRW I think that stands for crossover relative work, or possibly experimental relative work. It's basically relative work between wingsuiters and canopy pilots. It requires the canopy pilots to be on small, fast and agile canopies, which are put into shallow dives in order to gain enough speed to stay with the wingsuiters, who are also in a slightly braked shallow dive in order to match speed with the canopy pilots. The goal is to turn points. Either the wingsuiters will try to touch the canopy while it's in flight, or the pilot will attempt to stand on the wingsuiters' backs.  Either way it looks awesome, which is really all it gets down to! And finally: Advanced Canopy Piloting or Swooping.  This is the coolest of the cool. (and also my favorite of them all)  Basically this is the discipline of diving your canopy at the ground in order to pick up speed, recovering to normal flight at the last possible second, and levelling off so you are flying horizontally just inches off the ground in order to cover as much distance as possible.  There are subsets of this that are used in competition, but each one is just a variant of diving the canopy, recovering it and trying to get maximum distance. There's also a form of slalom, pond swooping and distance and style competitions and so forth.  This is also the largest injury producer.            
My Q-Face fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jan 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
Awesome thread! I skydove (skydived?) over Hawaii almost 5 years ago. It was an incredible experience. I remember an intense fear immediately prior to jumping, the sensation of my stomach sinking as we fell, and then a euphoric rush. We fell through a rain cloud, and I would have never thought that a million rain drops could sting so bad! I would love to skydive again, but I have a herniated lumbar disc, and I am worried that landing could be very problematic. Do you know anyone who jumps with a similar injury?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 03:04
|
|
|
Love it. I've been twice in the Houston area, both times with Westside Skydivers and it was fantastic. First time was very cloudy, so I couldn't really see anything until about 8000 ft and then the whole world just popped right into view. It was really neat! Second time was much less terrifying than the first. I also managed to pull my own chute without help  I'd love to do it all the time, but it's an expensive sport to get into. Can you talk a little about the pricing relative to how much experience you have? I saw that once you are qualified you can just pay for the flight up which is like 25 bucks. Does that include renting a chute too? Or do most people buy their own personal chute?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 05:15
|
|
|
Donald Kimball posted:Awesome thread! Dove or skydived. What an awesome place to do it! Did you keep your eyes open for the exit? On my first tandem I made the mistake of looking straight down when we were getting in the door. I closed my eyes and didn't open them again until we were tumbling in the air. quote:I would love to skydive again, but I have a herniated lumbar disc, and I am worried that landing could be very problematic. Do you know anyone who jumps with a similar injury? I've heard people talking about this and it gets down to your level of fitness. People can and do jump with herniated discs and other back injuries, but you have to take precautions. You need to focus on stretching and building up your torso strength to make sure your spine stays in alignment. This means doing a lot of core exercises, especially back extensions. Aerobics helps. Unless you're on a small, fast, diving parachute with a high wingloading, landing is not so much the issue as opening is. You're not coming straight down, so even if your feet hit the ground and you don't flare (pull the brakes) enough, the canopy is still going forward and will pull your body along with it. You'll end up landing feet, knees, hands, face, but there's no real shock to your torso. If you learn to fly and land the canopy properly though, landing is as simple and easy on your body as taking a step. Sassafrasquatch posted:Love it.  Nice! Was it a tandem both times, or AFF?quote:I'd love to do it all the time, but it's an expensive sport to get into. Can you talk a little about the pricing relative to how much experience you have? I saw that once you are qualified you can just pay for the flight up which is like 25 bucks. Does that include renting a chute too? Or do most people buy their own personal chute? When I first started writing the OP a few days ago, I'd meant to include the financial portion in there. That's exactly right, there is a very steep initial cost which gets really cheap after you're qualified. The $25 would be for people who have their own gear, but chute rental is usually only about  on top of that. People who stay in the sport long enough buy their own gear eventually, either because the rental gear doesn't fit what they want to do, or they outgrow what their DZ has for rent.edited so I'm not Triple posting my own thread My Q-Face fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 11:50
|
|
|
Costs When I started skydiving, everybody I met said "Say goodbye to your money". I thought they were joking, but honestly it's worse than cocaine. Last year, I spent more than 25% of my income on skydiving. Skydiving has very steep entry fees in the form of training and gear, after which it gets very cheap -relatively speaking. A Licensed skydiver who owns and packs their own gear will typically pay only about $25-30 for a jump ticket, which gives them a ride to altitude. Of course, you will still end up spending quite a lot of money just to go as often as you can, but that's on you. Training and licensing The AFF course, with instruction and seven jumps can run between 1400 and 1600 in the states. In Europe the average is about 1600 Euros. The IAD course, with instruction and 13 jumps runs about the same. This is assuming you pass each level the first time and don't have to repeat any. Dropzones offer these courses as individual jumps, where you can pay for each level at once, or as package courses, where you pay everything up front. The average IAD first jump is about $200, and the average AFF first jump is about $300. To get your A license, you need 25 total jumps. You will need to do a series of coach jumps, as well as a license test jump, each of which costs more than a regular jump. The total cost to an A License runs between $2500 for IAD and $2800 for AFF. Fly Free skydiving in Festus Missouri has a handy chart showing the cost breakdown here So that's $2500 - $2800 to get licensed. IAD is a cheaper, but AFF gets you solo in the sky faster, your call. Once you're cleared to jump solo, things start to get cheaper. Most dropzones in the states charge between $25 and 30 per jump ticket, and most Dropzones in Europe charge between 25 and 30 EUR. But there's still gear to consider. Rentals add to the cost of the jump ticket, anywhere from 10-20 dollars per jump. A $20 gear rental usually includes to price of the pack-job when you're done. Some places will charge you the higher amount and then refund the cost of the pack job if you pack it yourself, while some places require that one of their packers must pack their rental equipment. So getting licensed is the first hurdle to get over, but there's one more. Gear This is the really painful hurdle. If you stay in the sport, especially if you want to get into any discipline beyond Belly-to-Earth Relative Work, eventually you're going to want to get your own gear. Most dropzones have rental equipment, but for many of them, their rental equipment mostly consists of student gear, which tends to be one-size-fits-most, fitted with larger canopies, and tends to have certain safety modifications which make it safer for students and instructors, but also makes it unsuitable for freeflying or style jumps. A complete rig can cost more than a decent used car. A new rig can run between $5000 and $8000. Chutingstar.com offers a wide selection of gear packages, just to give you an idea. Most new equipment is custom built, and depending on demand can have wait times from 6 weeks to 6 months. Most manufacturers also offer in-stock options, which reduces the wait time, but not the price. Skydiving is such a niche market that most manufacturers and dealers sell for only slightly above cost anyway. All of the companies that cater to the industry tend to be made up of skydivers anyway, so most of them are in it for the love of the game and not for the money. Used gear can cost less, but a lot of people get really excited when they first start going solo and want to rush into buying their own gear, so the demand for used novice rigs is usually higher than the supply. Having said that, if you buy a new novice rig, you will get more of your money back when it comes time to sell it. Two options to buying gear, whether new or used, are to buy complete packages or complete used rigs, or to buy piecemeal. Most people end up buying piecemeal. Altimeters One of the first things a new skydiver will buy is an Altimeter. There are several different models of digital and analog out there, and one hybrid model with an analog face and mostly digital guts. This is a matter of personal preference for people, some like being able to see digital numbers and some like being able to see the position of the needle. Most digital altimeters have the advantage of being accurate to within 3 feet, while analog altimeters require an estimation if you're not on one of the needle marks, especially below 500 feet. Digital altimeters also have the advantage of being able to record your jump for review. Some track your exit altitude, your freefall time, your opening altitude and your max speed in freefall and under canopy for every jump you make with them. Some keep more detailed records of each individual jump. The L&B Altitrack is the aforementioned Hybrid, offering the appearance of an analog altimeter with the logging abilities of a digital. Helmet This will be your first purchase if you didn't buy an altimeter. Despite what Jerry Seinfeld said, that helmet is not just along for the ride. There are many times where you need a helmet during your skydive. The first is on exit, you don't want to stand up into the aircraft's door-frame or smack your head on the wing at 14,000 feet. The next is in doing jumps with other people. You don't want somebody hitting your bare head at terminal velocity. The last of course, is on landing, the ground can hurt. There are lots of different models and styles to choose from. Some people like the feeling of the wind on their face and so buy an open face, some people like the cool factor of a closed face. Closed face helmets can set off claustrophobia in some people. It gets down to personal preference in style. Some people who do RW work use closed face helmets to prevent their getting kicked in the face when doing in-close maneuvers. Some people who swoop like them because the margin for error that close to the ground is very slim that close to the ground and a face-plant can break a nose or a jaw at those speeds. Having said that, only one helmet used in skydiving is actually rated to really protect your skull in the event of a hard impact and that's the pro-tec skateboarding style helmet most DZs use as the student helmet. All the rest will protect you from bumps and scrapes, but they don't have the foam or steel reinforcement of the Pro-tec type. Having said that, I don't use one of those, and neither do most skydivers who aren't students. It's rare -though not unheard of- to get hit hard enough on exit, landing or in freefall to get hurt. Jumpsuits Some time before, or around the same time as you get your rig, you'll probably look at getting a jumpsuit. There's a wide variety of options, both stock and custom made, ranging from One to several hundred dollars. The kind of discipline you want to follow will inform the type of suit you get. Suits generally come in four styles: RW, Freefly, Camera, and Swoop. RW suits typically have handles built into the arms and legs to make taking grips easier. They occasionally have booties which slip over the shoes in order to reduce drag. Freefly suits are standard jumpsuits with either elastic or velcro wrists and ankles, and stirrups in the pants. The stirrups are worn inside the shoes and keep the pants from shooting up your legs in head-up freefly. RW and Freefly suits usually come in three different fits which affect your fall rate: tight, normal and baggy. The tighter a suit fits, the less resistance it provides to the air. Larger people will generally want baggier suits if they want to jump with other not-larger people, while very skinny or small people will want tighter suits so they can stay with larger people. This isn't always the case. Camera suits are usually built to be baggy and have a wing-flap from the arms to the torso which help to keep them in a stable shoulders-and-head up position while wearing more weight on their heads. These are used only by pro camera flyers. Swoop pants are built to reduce drag while under canopy. Swoopers are obsessed with reducing drag. The canopies used by most swoopers have a detachable slider, called a removable deployment system or RDS. Swoop pants are sometimes built with a pocket on the back of the leg for the swooper to put the RDS after the canopy has opened. Canopies New main canopies will cost between $1800 and $2300. Prices vary based on size, shape, material and purpose. New reserve canopies will cost between $1200 and $1600. Prices vary based on manufacturer and material. Canopy fabric usually comes in one of three flavors. Older gear was made from Low Porosity material, commonly called F111. Most modern canopies are either Zero Porosity or a Hybrid of ZP and Low Porosity material. F111 canopies allow air to pass through the material, which degrades with use and is less aerodynamic than ZP material. ZP material is relatively new by comparison, and is essentially F111 material with a silicone based coating which prevents air from passing through. This makes ZP canopies more aerodynamic and extends their life. F111 has the advantage of being easier to pack and having a low pack volume, so some manufacturers create canopies today which use a combination of ZP and Low Porosity material. This is called Hybrid or ZPX, depending on the manufacturer. "F-111" is actually a brand name for a fabric that's not made anymore. Skydivers use F111 to refer to low porosity fabric like most people use Kleenex to refer to tissue paper. Most people skydiving today have never actually jumped a canopy made from real F-111 fabric. A canopy will degrade with use. Usually you can expect an average canopy to last about 1000-1500 jumps with average use. Some can last many more jumps than that. Canopies can wear out faster when exposed to water and sand, and a canopy that gets wet can deform or shrink, reducing its performance and causing it to fly off-center. A canopy can last 15 years or more depending on how it's treated, but the material starts to degrade around that time, and there's no telling how the previous owners treated it. On top of that, many riggers won't even bother inspecting or fixing gear that's more than 15-17 years old. In particular, reserves degrade over time, even if they are never actually deployed. The lines on the canopy wear out faster than the canopy themselves. Manufacturers recommend changing the lines every 400-500 jumps, or sooner depending on how they are treated. Brake lines may wear out sooner than the main lines. A canopy reline job will cost in the neighborhood of $300-$400. Used canopies vary depending on age and number of jumps. Stay away from anything that is more than 10-12 years old, no matter how good a deal it appears. People selling used always ask for more than the canopy is worth, so you can usually negotiate down, unless it's the aforementioned novice gear with high demand. Usually a used main in the 170-190 sq.ft region will fetch the seller's asking price, provided it's <10 years old with <600 jumps on it. Containers This is the fun, hard decision. Containers have two sizes to consider, Harness length and container size. When people talk about container size, they're referring to the size of canopy it will take. Containers will have a name and a model number. The name is the type of container and the model number is the reference for the size of canopies it will take. Most manufacturer's sizing guides typically list three sizes of canopy based on pack volume, which extends its usefulness to you. (Some list only two, but that model can still accomodate three) This is listed on container sizing guides as tight, normal (or "optimal") and loose (or "soft"). The tight and loose sizes will be either one step up or one step down from the normal size. For those that only list normal and loose, one step up will still fit as tight. The sizes are based on standard pure 9 cell ZP canopies. 7 cell and Hybrid canopies typically pack one size smaller, while cross-braced canopies back about 25% larger. (If you're looking at buying a cross-braced canopy, you're already worlds ahead of me in knowledge and experience, so I won't elaborate on that one). New containers start between $1600 and $2600. Although manufacturers do frequently have stock containers available immediately, a custom made container will have the longest wait time of any new gear that you buy. Custom containers are made to your measurements and with your choice of options. Additionally, they can be made to your color specifications, with your designs embroidered on them. The most important part of a container is the harness. You can frequently find stock containers in a variety of colors which may appeal to you, but the harnesses tend to be stock lengths, which means it isn't made specifically for your body, so you will have to get measured and then pick one that's close enough. You may get lucky, I bought a new stock container that turned out to be slightly too small for how i was measured, but is still comfortable and keeps the container tightly against my back, making it better for freeflying. It also gives me more immediate response for harness turns than others I have used. This gives you the option to downsize your main (and/or reserve) canopy without replacing the whole system. A lot of people look at the size of canopy they want to fly now when choosing a container, without thinking about what they'll move on to afterwards. I bought a container sized for 135-170 ZP canopies, but I have a Hybrid 190. With room to downsize at least three times, I expect this container will last me quite a while. Used containers run the gamut of prices and there are really good deals out there. Some older containers can be modified with the newer innovations, extending its life. People looking for and selling used containers typically say something like "Fits 5'11" 190lbs" when talking about the harness fit, but that's not very accurate as two people who are 5'11 190lbs may have dramatically different torso lengths, shoulder widths and so forth. It's better to ask for the harness size when looking at used containers. AAD There are three AADs that matter on the market: the M2, the Vigil II, and the Cypres 2. Anything else is garbage. It's either old, or it's unreliable. The Cypres 2 by Airtec is the industry standard, engineered and built in Germany. A new Cypres 2 costs $1400. It will last for 12 years, but has required factory maintenance every four years. They charge $160 plus shipping for the scheduled maintenance, however unscheduled repairs are covered by the warranty. They also offers a $90 credit towards a new Cypres when you turn in an out-of-date model Cypres 1 or 2. The Vigil II by Advanced Aerospace Designs costs about $1300 new. It will last for 20 years, and the battery will last 2000 jumps. There is no regularly scheduled maintenance on it. This is fairly reliable, Adv. Aero Designs is a Belgian company started by former Airtec empoyees. The M2 by MarS is the newest and cheapest. A new M2 costs about $1000. It has a life of 15 years and the battery will operate for 15,000 jumps. There is no regularly scheduled maintenance on it. MarS is a Czech company, and it's reliability is not well known yet. Of the three, Cypres is hands down the most reliable and has the best track record. You can buy used AADs for less. Things to be aware of when looking at used AADs are the age and whether the maintenance has been done. Airtec has a helpful calculator to show what their used AADs are worth here: https://www.cypres-usa.com/usedcypres.asp There are older models of the Cypres 1 still being sold. The last Cypres 1 was built in 2002, and so will still be operable until the end of this 2014, but it's worth at most $150. Someone is out there trying to sell it for more. You don't have to get an AAD, but most Dropzones require it these days. Maintenance Once you've bought your container, eventually you'll want to upgrade or downsize, but in the meantime you'll need to pay for periodic maintenance on your equipment. Reserve Repack: Although different countries have different rules for this, every country requires that you have a certified rigger open, inspect and repack your reserve parachute after a certain period of time. In this US this is every 180 days, in Germany it's once a year. You repack according to the rules of country in which you hold your license, regardless of where you're living. So an American in Germany must still repack every 180 days, while a German in America can go on repacking once a year. A reserve repack typically runs about $60. Canopy Reline: In accordance with Manufacturer's guidelines, you should replace the lines of your canopy, typically after 400-500 jumps. You may also have to replace the lines if they break at some point. You can also choose to get a reline if you want to change the types of lines on the canopy. People do this to reduce pack volume and increase the life of the lines. A complete reline will cost between $300 and 400, depending on where you get it done, and whether you use the same kind of lines. You can have a partial reline if only the brake-lines need it. Canopy inspection: If you've just bought a used canopy, you've left your canopy sitting in storage for a long period of time (particularly in a non-environmentally controlled storage area) or if you ever land somewhere other than the designated landing area, you will want to have a rigger inspect your canopy for damage. This is faily inexpensive, maybe running $25. Before you buy Before you even consider buying gear, talk to your instructors, the Dropzone operator, and other experienced skydivers at your drop zone about what's right for you. You need to consider your goals in the sport as well as your experience and skill level. A lot of people (me included) get in a big hurry to get gear once they get their license, only to find that in less than a hundred jumps, the gear they bought isn't right for them. The enthusiam is palpable. New jumpers want to hurry into other disciplines that they can't do on rental gear, and they want to just pay for the jump ticket so they can get more jumps in. They also think they already know what they want to do in the sport, even though they're still learning about it at an exponential pace. Especially as you're just starting out, You are not the best judge of your skill. You should let the experienced people at your DZ evaluate you and make recommendations. When I got my license, I was on a 220 sq.ft canopy and was sure I would be on it for another few hundred jumps. In less than fifty jumps, I was on a 190. I'm still on a 190, but I expect that I will downsize again, maybe twice, by the end of this year. If I had rushed into buying a container, I would be looking at getting a whole new system by then. I did a canopy piloting course after I got on the 190. My fellow student was on a 240 and was sure he'd be on that for a while, so he was looking to buy a rig that would take a 240 with the option to downsize to 220. By the end of the course, the instructor had him on a 200 and was recommending that he downsize even further in the next dozen jumps. Be Patient! The sky isn't going anywhere. It's worth it to spend the money renting gear early on, rather than on used gear that you'll be trying to sell after a hundred jumps. My Q-Face fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jan 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2014 12:06
|
|
|
Awesome. My avatar is actually me in muppet form skydiving. Submitted a picture of me from the first time I went into a thread here a while back and that's what came back. First time I went was in Australia, on a complete whim. Somebody at work mentioned they were going, and one week later I found myself doing the exact same thing. Here's the shot from it (it's a fantastic location to do it...just look at that coastline...and the water is so beautifully blue in the Indian Ocean).  Landed right on the beach too. It was expensive as all hell, but everything else was being paid for by work while I was there, and it was my birthday, so I figured it was worth it. I went again last year on the 4th of July, but this time just south of Boston. I actually just started up a thread at work to try and get a larger group (about 8 people) to go with me this year. I want to continue the trend of going at least once a year. I might try to go a second time this year as well. My grandfather was in the Army Airborne and looked so happy and went straight into stories when he saw the video of my first jump. Still in good enough shape that a tandem could work out well for him. Some people have tried to convince me to just go through the training and get my license. If I'm currently only planning on going 1-2 times a year, do you think that would be necessary or even a good idea?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
Both my jumps were tandem. The next one is going to be AFF. Pretty stoked about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
troubled teen posted:Awesome. My avatar is actually me in muppet form skydiving. Submitted a picture of me from the first time I went into a thread here a while back and that's what came back. That is gorgeous, I think jumping on the coast, any coast, should be mandatory, even if you're only going to do one tandem in your life. quote:I actually just started up a thread at work to try and get a larger group (about 8 people) to go with me this year. I want to continue the trend of going at least once a year. I might try to go a second time this year as well. My grandfather was in the Army Airborne and looked so happy and went straight into stories when he saw the video of my first jump. Still in good enough shape that a tandem could work out well for him. That's very cool, and it's awesome that you can bond with your grandfather like that. Absolutely I think you should get him to do it too! And you're never too old. That picture of the old lady in the first post, that actually is a 102 year old lady who did a tandem base jump from a bridge. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1IEJp5OXoo) I wouldn't necessarily talk you out of doing AFF or getting your license, because I think once you start, your plans would change (mine certainly did), but it's really down to what you want. If you really only can spare one or two times a year to go, there's no reason not to stick to tandems. A lot of people do it that way. Tandem hobbyists are a thing. People do just Tandems for any number of reasons, and that's great too. There are people with dozens of Tandem jumps who would never consider strapping on their own parachute, they just enjoy the experience. Some do tandems because they don't have the time. Some do because they don't have the money to get licensed. Some don't because they just don't have the interest in actually doing it by themselves. Some of them do it for health reasons, there are a number of elderly and physically and mentally handicapped tandem hobbyists. Skydive City in Zephyrhills Florida even offers a "$99 Tandems for Life" deal where after your first tandem with them, if you buy your next ticket that day it only costs $99. Then whenever you decide to use that ticket, the next one is $99, and so on. Sassafrasquatch posted:Both my jumps were tandem. The next one is going to be AFF. Pretty stoked about it. Awesome, it really is a great time! Do you have an idea of when you'll do it, and will it be at the same place you did your tandems?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2014 03:12
|
|
|
A little  for your weekend!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
loving excellent. How the hell do you land in a wing-suit?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2014 16:09
|
|
|
What pinpoint accuracy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2014 17:15
|
|
|
Donald Kimball posted:loving excellent. How the hell do you land in a wing-suit? There are two ways, the first is pitching out a pilot chute with a longer bridle which catches clean air. When you see them doing close-to-the-ground maneuvers, called Proximity flying, they are flying along a planned course on the side of a mountain where the ground descends at approximately the same angle as their flight, but then drops off, giving them free air to deploy in, like so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37YROdTDfOU The second I think only one person so far has actually done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEP8juRSBRo, and he was a stuntman wearing extra protection. There are videos floating around of people landing a wingsuit on water, but that's STDH.avi, At the heights and speeds we fall, the surface tension of water may as well be concrete.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2014 11:44
|
|
|
I'm gonna move this to A/T, where I suspect it'll get more attention.  I'll ask an A/T mod to fix the tags.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 07:43
|
|
|
I feel like vomiting just reading all this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 10:05
|
|
|
Sweet! I jumped twice this year. First time in Moab, Utah at sunset... incredible view of Canyonlands, Arches National Park, and the Colorado River. Second time I jumped was over the Hamptons, which was really cool too but pretty frigid in November. It didn't feel like a macho thrill at all, either -- maybe it had something to do with the location, but it felt weirdly deep and for about a week after, I was in this malaise like I had eaten a barrel of ecstasy and all I wanted to do is go jump out again. Also, I noticed some parallels to stage fright/performance anxiety: I'm a musician and generally the time I get most nervous is waiting around in the green room, by the stage door, etc., but mixed with moments of total calm; then once I'm out on stage everything is fine. Skydiving felt pretty much identical, where the most nerve-wracking moments were waiting in the hangar, flip-flopping on the ride up (yes! lets do this!! ...gently caress!! what am i doing!!), when the guy says "two minutes", and so on. But then when you get thrown out, everything is amazing. edit: I would really love to get certified in the next couple years too. I'm pretty broke most of the time but my line of work brings me to some really awesome places for free, domestic and international, so it'd be sweet way to really see the places I go to. question: are the higher altitude jumps mostly a gimmick? The one's from 18,000 + oxygen or whatever? nyquil fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2014 23:42
|
|
|
Hahaha, that's about right! That malaise is generally how I feel during the weeks between jumping: it's a horrible addiction. Utah sounds beautiful. I've only jumped in Germany and Ireland, where it's green fields in every direction, and on the coast in Portugal and Spain, which is beautiful in a different way. Your analogy sums it up precisely. Eventually you get used to the anxiety or it goes away, but the memories of that feeling are quite vivid and familiar. nyquil posted:question: are the higher altitude jumps mostly a gimmick? The one's from 18,000 + oxygen or whatever? Generally, yes. Outside of the military, where they do it for tactical reasons, there's very little reason to jump that high. Some people do it to set different records, and some people do it once or twice for the experience, but I don't get the impression that it's a regular thing for them. Some of the largest formation jumps go from higher than 14-16,000 feet, but that's just because there are so many people involved and they need the extra freefall time to get everyone together and safely apart. They usually jump between 16 and 20,000 feet, I believe, and they don't use Oxygen (outside of the plane) in that case.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2014 12:02
|
|
|
Finished my AFF training last weekend. It was a blast and probably the most fun I've ever had. Ever. Spending the entire weekend at the dropzone, and sleeping at the bunkhouse was probably the best decision I made. Being able to have access to talk with instructors and experienced skydivers all day long was awesome. Plus all the people I met were amazing people. I feel like my information retention was a lot higher than it would have been if I broke it up into several weekends. Here was my view of the California coast on my graduation jump: EDIT: Oh also quick question. Say you own your own rig. How hard would it be to get it through security checks at an airport if you're traveling domestically/internationally? Mux fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
Outstanding effort post dude! I've been skydiving for 3 years. I'm at around 550 jumps now. Primarily I wingsuit, and do CRW (4 way rotations) competitively. Any questions please ask.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
^^^ Cool, welcome to the thread! Having someone with a little more experience will help us all recognize when I'm talking out of my  Mux posted:Finished my AFF training last weekend. It was a blast and probably the most fun I've ever had. Ever. Spending the entire weekend at the dropzone, and sleeping at the bunkhouse was probably the best decision I made. Being able to have access to talk with instructors and experienced skydivers all day long was awesome. Plus all the people I met were amazing people. I feel like my information retention was a lot higher than it would have been if I broke it up into several weekends. Here was my view of the California coast on my graduation jump: Nice! Well done. Now say goodbye to your bank account. That's awesome that you were able to get it in over a weekend. I definitely agree, getting it all in one continuous dose is the way to go if you can manage it. quote:EDIT: Oh also quick question. Say you own your own rig. How hard would it be to get it through security checks at an airport if you're traveling domestically/internationally? I do own my own rig  I've taken it through airport security once, the way I'd packed everything, my checked baggage was 6 pounds over, but the only way I could reorganize everything on the spot was to take out the rig and put my carry-on into my checked bag. I took it through security at Munich airport and they freaked a bit. The guts of the parachute appear organic on the scanner, in the same way that explosives do. Add to that the electronics and pyrotechnics in the AAD and the metal in the reserve pilot chute, and they were quite insistent that I open it up on the spot so they could inspect it. I was quite polite but insistent that it would be impossible unless they wanted a huge mess. I won't go into detail about how, but eventually I was able to get through and carry it onto the plane. It wasn't easy, but it's do-able. I will say I'm glad I got to the airport a few hours early.If you are going to check it, I would recommend a hard-shell suit-case to prevent it getting crushed, dragged on the ground, or punctured by something during the process.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
Good thread! Finished AAF back in Late October/Early November, finishing A License req's soon. Which means I need to start looking at buying my own rig 
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2014 02:07
|
|
|
Awesome thread thanks for taking the time to put it together. I've not been skydiving myself though I plan to in future. For those experienced divers out there any tips on summoning the courage to actually jump the first time?
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2014 12:35
|
|
|
Thrasophius posted:Awesome thread thanks for taking the time to put it together. I've not been skydiving myself though I plan to in future. For those experienced divers out there any tips on summoning the courage to actually jump the first time? Don't look down, and trust your training. On my tandem jump, I was so focused on aligning my feet in the door that I ended up looking straight down at the ground and had to close my eyes. I didn't open them again until we were out of the plane. If you do a tandem as your first, try to pay close attention to the instructions and trust the tandem master. After I had learned to jump and to trust my training and equipment, it took somebody saying "so what if you fall out? That's what you came up here to do" for me to get over my nervousness of the open door. My Q-Face fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
Fascinating thread, thank you for this. It's encouraged me to look up costs in the UK! One question (I may have missed this somewhere) - how long does a skydive take? As in getting up there, any time hanging around, and the jump itself?
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2014 18:55
|
|
|
My Q-Face posted:Don't look down, and trust your training. Thanks for replying. Like Greyish said how long does a jump take? More specifically how long from the jump to the ground because I've heard it takes a while to get into the air then it's only a minute or so to the ground which seems a little short for the effort.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
Trembley / My Q-Face: Have either of you HALO jumped? There's a dz near me that offers them about once a month, so I'm planning on going in August or September. Greyish Orange posted:Fascinating thread, thank you for this. It's encouraged me to look up costs in the UK! Thrasophius posted:Thanks for replying. Like Greyish said how long does a jump take? More specifically how long from the jump to the ground because I've heard it takes a while to get into the air then it's only a minute or so to the ground which seems a little short for the effort. Assuming you're doing Tandem - It depends on whether you're at a small or large drop zone, though you should be prepared to wait 1-3 hours to jump. Once you're in the plane you'll have a 5-10 minute flight. As for the Jump, you'll experience between 50-60 seconds of freefall dependent upon your exit altitude. You'll be under canopy for around 6 minutes. If you're planning to just do a tandem and never skydive again, shell out the extra  and get a video.Freefall will seem much longer because you will be absolutely terrified and the adrenaline will be pumping. A common issue is that people stop breathing during freefall - try not to do this. I'm also going to lay down a hard truth and say this is the most fun plane to jump from 
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 00:45
|
|
|
I graduated my AFF on Saturday and the only thing I didn't get to was the delta. I tried on my last jump around 8000ft and just lost all my stability and then was around 7000 so made the call to just enjoy that last few thousand so I could pull stable. My instructor applauded this decision. I have a ton of questions but this OP is INSANE and might answer a bunch of them. I have 9 jumps right now, plan to do 3 on Saturday (first solo, then some heading control, and then practice some acrobatics). I did my AFF in Davis, CA at Skydance. The DZ in Hollister is half the distance as Skydance is, but I love it. I've heard the gear in Hollister isnt that good so I'm slightly nervous to jump there, just because I am so inexperienced I want a rig I can trust. I love the 240 I've been using at Skydance and it only has around 100 jumps. quote:Thanks for replying. Like Greyish said how long does a jump take? More specifically how long from the jump to the ground because I've heard it takes a while to get into the air then it's only a minute or so to the ground which seems a little short for the effort. Depending on the plane it can take 10-25 minutes to get to altitude (13,500). Once you're out its about 60 seconds for freefall (depending on what altitude they pull), and then about a minute per 1000 feet under canopy (for a solo jumper)... i'm not sure how different the decent time is for a tandem, it all depends on the weight loading of the canopy. Total time is around 5-7 minutes once you exit the plane, depending on pull altitude. Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:I'm also going to lay down a hard truth and say this is the most fun plane to jump from gently caress is that a rear exit plane? Are there any DZ in California that have one? I want to run down a ramp and jump out of an airplane SO BAD. I obviously wont do it until I'm more experienced but curious where I should go to get that experience Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Good thread! Finished AAF back in Late October/Early November, finishing A License req's soon. Which means I need to start looking at buying my own rig Shouldnt you wait until a minimum of 40-70 jumps before getting your own rig? even if its used, isnt it a bit soon to be going all in? that is what my DZ recommended to me anyways. Everyone has different income levels they can spend on this, so that changes it significantly mitztronic fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 00:47
|
|
|
mitztronic posted:gently caress is that a rear exit plane? Are there any DZ in California that have one? I want to run down a ramp and jump out of an airplane SO BAD. I obviously wont do it until I'm more experienced but curious where I should go to get that experience Yup! I did a couple AFF jumps out of it in September (my dz rented one for a weekend). It has a railbar on the top of the back which you can use to flip out of the back it's so much fun  e: Oops, didn't see second question. I'm sure some in CA have them, but I'm in TN & have no clue about CA dropzones - I am fairly certain Elsinore has one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 00:58
|
|
|
By the way, this is what it's all about
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 01:02
|
|
|
quote:Why would anybody jump out of a perfectly good airplane? There is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane. All airplanes are an accident waiting to happen http://www.amazon.com/Parachuting-Skydivers-Handbook-Dan-Poynter/dp/1568601417 edit: High pull @ Sunset @ Elsinore. Taken today (I think?) 
mitztronic fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
My Q-Face posted:I do own my own rig You'll find the airport security experience varies wildly between airports, time of day, weather, and what side of the bed you rolled out of that day. Protip: carry the cypres card and TSA letter with you. Also AAD releases the reserve. Don't say cutter, pyro, or other "scary" words. Greyish Orange posted:Fascinating thread, thank you for this. It's encouraged me to look up costs in the UK! This will depend largely on several factors: the type of airplane, the exit altitude, size of the parachute. Climbing to altitude can take from 10-20 mins. Free fall somewhere between 40 and 60 seconds. Parachute ride 5 mins or so. Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Trembley / My Q-Face: Have either of you HALO jumped? There's a dz near me that offers them about once a month, so I'm planning on going in August or September. Highest jump so far was 18k. I might have the opportunity to do 35 or 40k in the next couple weeks. Still waiting to hear. My arms are gonna be shot after that wingsuit flight. And yes, skyvans rock. They are however deafeningly loud.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 05:26
|
|
|
I did a tandem in Perth, WA a few years ago for my 20-something birthday and loved it. Generally I'm a poo poo flyer, but once I was out of the plane I loved it. I think it actually cured my fear of flying, in that rickety-rear end prop plane with no sound deadening and stripped of any comforts. It's definitely on my do-by-30 list to get my AFF. I did have a question about packing your main and reserve canopies though - is there a special method of folding and rolling like parachute origami that makes sure it comes out just right? You also mentioned two-out, where both canopies deploy - what's the risk of this? Do you have to detach the main or anything - what effect does it have if you have a 'skyhook' configuration?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 10:02
|
|
|
mitztronic posted:I did my AFF in Davis, CA at Skydance. The DZ in Hollister is half the distance as Skydance is, but I love it. I've heard the gear in Hollister isnt that good so I'm slightly nervous to jump there, just because I am so inexperienced I want a rig I can trust. I love the 240 I've been using at Skydance and it only has around 100 jumps. The thing that I trust the most are the instructors there. Most, if not all, are cream of the crop dudes who know what they're talking about. I've had a lot of QA sessions with them over the past few weekends. A lot of those talks had to do with gear in general, as well as the gear at the DZ. I'm really looking forward to getting my own rig eventually and not having to deal with those adjustable student containers anymore. Also, the other really cool part about Hollister is you can find an instructor that specializes in almost every discipline from swooping to base wingsuit proxying. You can see Scotty Bob and a few of the other instructors in this video. It's pretty cool to watch even if you don't end up wanting to jump there. Mux fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Mar 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 10:39
|
|
|
My Q-Face posted:Don't look down, and trust your training. At some point in time I'd like to learn how to skydive on my own but that would require either moving away or spending several days training while away on vacation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 15:01
|
|
|
Mux posted:Just out of curiosity, why do you think Hollister has bad gear? I'm not saying you're wrong in anyway, but I've made 22 jumps there, and haven't had any issues with gear. The containers are student containers, but I'm pretty sure they're all Infinity containers with a decent variety of canopy options including Sabres, Specters, etc. in a several different sizes starting at 265 going down to 135(iirc?). The catch is that my experience is a total of 22 jumps in the past 2 weeks. But if you gave more specifics as to why you think their "gear isn't that good", I might be able to give you honest, no bullshit answers on whether what you think/heard is true/false. Awesome, that makes me feel much better. I don't think that, in case it wasn't clear, it was second hand from someone at skydance that I trust. They hadn't actually ever jumped from Hollister themselves but had heard from an ex rigger from Hollister that their gear wasn't as in as good condition as skydance. Do you jump at Hollister? I want to get a few more jumps under my belt before trying a new DZ. Would be cool to meet up with a goon at Hollister so I'd know someone I live in the south bay and can't keep justifying driving 4 hours round trip up to Davis, as much as I love it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:A common issue is that people stop breathing during freefall How difficult is it to breathe during the free fall? I'd imagine with the speed the air is rushing past it's not as easy as usual.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
Thrasophius posted:How difficult is it to breathe during the free fall? I'd imagine with the speed the air is rushing past it's not as easy as usual. It's not difficult at all. The most difficult part is dealing with all the adrenaline and what that means to your breathing. Some people get sensory overload and can't breathe/feel like they can't breath. My first tandem I experienced it, but didnt have any issues on my first AFF jump. I was in a better mindset.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
mitztronic posted:Awesome, that makes me feel much better. I don't think that, in case it wasn't clear, it was second hand from someone at skydance that I trust. They hadn't actually ever jumped from Hollister themselves but had heard from an ex rigger from Hollister that their gear wasn't as in as good condition as skydance. It is possible Hollister's gear isn't in "as good condition" as Davis', but that probably comes down to a really subjective definition of "good condition". I know they get inspected a lot. Actually, they just went in for inspection after yesterday's jumps. I can tell you that the rigs at Hollister definitely have more than 100 jumps compared to the 240 you're using at Davis. I know that Mako, the DZO, would probably have absolutely no issue with you checking out any rigs you might want to jump with before you even bought a jump ticket or rented gear. Also, don't pay attention to their Yelp reviews. They filtered out my review, as well as several others that I know for Hollister. Most are tandem reviews of impatient chucklefucks anyway. Yelp is poo poo and should have a Yelp entry that I can give a 1 star review to for being complete shitlords. mitztronic posted:Do you jump at Hollister? I want to get a few more jumps under my belt before trying a new DZ. Would be cool to meet up with a goon at Hollister so I'd know someone I would love to meetup and Goondive from planes with you! I'll shoot you a PM. I think it would be really cool to eventually plan a Goon Boogie at some point in the future.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 20:26
|
|
|
Mux posted:Also, don't pay attention to their Yelp reviews. They filtered out my review, as well as several others that I know for Hollister. Most are tandem reviews of impatient chucklefucks anyway. Yelp is poo poo and should have a Yelp entry that I can give a 1 star review to for being complete shitlords. Yelp actually will often filter your reviews if you're 1) a new user, 2) don't review often, 3) don't use yelp often. They do this to prevent fake accounts from posting fake reviews. I've been a yelp user for several years and didn't start doing reviews until after I already had hundreds of check-ins and quick tips and so forth, so I never experienced this. I'm actually not too worried about Hollister. I just know Lodi is poo poo and I will NOT jump there without my own rig, so not for another year or two probably. I know how to read yelp reviews and filter garbage reviews. There are a lot of people that are so obviously incredibly rude when they go to DZ's and then they are surprised when they are treated poorly. You just gotta ignore those quote:I would love to meetup and Goondive from planes with you! I'll shoot you a PM. I think it would be really cool to eventually plan a Goon Boogie at some point in the future. So in! if it doesnt work out for later this month, for sure in the future. Where do you live? Central cali?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:31 |
|
|
mitztronic posted:I'm actually not too worried about Hollister. I just know Lodi is poo poo and I will NOT jump there without my own rig, so not for another year or two probably. There are a few people I've talked to who worked or were skybums at Lodi for awhile, and all pretty much had the same thing to say about the place. It's essentially the wild west of skydiving, and you sure as hell better not piss off the owner. It's a good place to get a ton of cheap jumps in if that's what you need/want, but your safety is entirely your own responsibility. I was told not to jump there until I was experienced enough to know how to take care of myself in the sky, and be able to avoid/spot potential dangers from other jumpers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2014 00:11
|
|