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Stairmaster posted:Dodoria is one of the biggest jabs the series takes at power levels. He's got a higher power level than vegeta but since he's one of frieza's guards he never fights at all and easily got wrecked by a well trained martial artist like vegeta. Yeah. I think I remember reading a fan translation of the manga a while back that, after Vegeta kills Cui, Freeza admits Vegeta is now stronger than Zarbon and Dodoria. Although he also states that Vegeta is just dust to him. I always thought that was a cool line. Anyway Freeza also says it's because Vegeta has been out training and getting stronger while most of Freeza's henchmen have just been sitting fat and happy. It was a fan translation so nothing official, but it was a cool line that I think was lost in the dub.
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Feb 2, 2014 15:33
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NikkolasKing posted:I know this is kind of a weird thing for it to be a favorite but I think TFS is at its best when they riff on the inconsistency in DB's story. (and no, I don't mean Vegeta's "power levels are bullshit!" line, even though that was great) I feel that if it would be more logical if Toriyama stuck with the energy absorption concept of the first two androids. They'd start put week but gradually get stronger as they went on, stealing bits of energy from the Z Fighters and others, until they were legit threats, like Cell before he absorbs the androids
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Feb 3, 2014 15:40
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Doesn't she gain a soft spot for Krillin due to him not deactivating her when he could have?
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Feb 4, 2014 23:30
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Law Cheetah posted:I always thought that the transition from Kid Goku -> Goku during the Piccolo Jr. Arc -> Goku at the beginning of Raditz made sense Am I wrong in thinking he looks like he grows a bit from, say, Pilaf saga Goku to King Piccolo saga Goku? He seems a bit taller/more defined then he was in the beginning where he was kind of barrel shaped. Also, just want to chime in and say that the current story arc in dragon ball multiverse is pretty interesting if no one's checked it out and wants to.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:20
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Wow. This is some next level dragon ball z discussion. I never really got into the canon implications of the movies. Even as a kid I figured they logically didn't for and just rolled with it. Wha does piss me off is how the movies tended to save power ups until the good guys really needed them (super saiyan in 5 and 7, maybe 6 and kaioken in a few of the early ones). I get that you need to build suspense through a movie, but that just broke the flow of how it worked. Goku and friends always used their power ups almost immediately in every fight.
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Feb 6, 2014 04:53
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Sex_Ferguson posted:After Lord Slug the movies basically follow the same pattern. Plot -> Villain Shows Up -> Hero either evens villain or gets dominated by him -> Power up, beat up villain, kill minions if they are in it -> Villain powers up -> Villain dominates -> Insert Spirit Bomb or Power combining here I understand why they do it. It's just always been a gripe of mine since that concept never appears in the manga/anime. The only fight I can think of where a good guy didn't use his highest power up at the beginning is Nappa, where Goku didn't use the kaioken because he was handling Nappa the whole way. Other than that, I guess you can count Vegeta vs Goku in the Buu saga but it's not really the same thing
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Feb 6, 2014 05:25
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My favorite fights are Nappa vs everyone before Goku shows up followed by Recoome vs Vegeta, Gohan, and Krillin. I have a thing for group fights vs an impossible foe, and wish there were more of them. Plus I watched the Nappa fight before I started spoiling the show for myself on the Internet and it had me on the edge of my seat each episode. My favorite one on one fight is probably either Goku vs King Piccolo or Vegeta vs. Zarbon. I guess I'm kinda weird though.
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Feb 7, 2014 21:53
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Why would they go around calling him Tienshinhan? They're friends now, you cut that poo poo down, especially when yelling about poo poo during fights. Don't they call him that in the manga too though?
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Feb 12, 2014 20:05
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I was beginning to think this was just a rumor, but it's awesome it's finally coming out.
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Feb 17, 2014 19:52
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:Some of the very best parts of dragon ball z were filler. I know you said Z, but I will never forgive the anime for making those "Goku goes to the ice cavern" episodes when getting the Ultra Divine Water in the Piccolo saga. e: You can also blame the anime for being the reason those fights did drag on as long as they did. Also the Buu saga is still my least favorite saga of Z, but if he stuck with how it started (Great Saiyaman and all that) I'd probably dislike it even more. That first part of the Buu saga is boring, and I feel a lot of other people thought the same way.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:32
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Sex_Ferguson posted:DBZ's first episode starts with filler and it's not the good kind. I remember as a kid being pissed that the Ocean dub cut out a good chunk of the filler (including most of that first episode). They were really just doing us American kids a favor.
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Feb 20, 2014 01:37
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To be honest I always found Super Saiyan 2 to be kind of underwhelming. It's hard to tell the difference between the two, and it's basically "wow Gohan is suddenly a lot stronger than he was before!".
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Feb 21, 2014 00:48
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carry on then posted:Although why he didn't try the whole "be Super Saiyan all the time" for his second year in the time chamber I'll never figure out. Again, I'm not sure if it showed up in the dub/kai (I was a big user of those horrible fan translations discussed earlier when I was younger), but I remember Vegeta saying he really didn't get anything out of his second year in the time chamber. Maybe it was more due to Goku humbling him by being much stronger than him after Goku's first year and not needing it a second time more than some kind of training plateau, but it definitely came up that he could not reach Goku and Gohan's level. Here's something I just thought of the other day. In the early days of my DBZ-fandom and internet usage, I would go on a bunch of lovely fan websites for Dragon Ball Z. One of them was Greg Werner's website (which, holy poo poo, is still here http://www.thegrandline.com/dbzinfo/frames.html). The links are all broken as hell, but there was a section where he showed stuff that was censored/cut from the Ocean dub (before the presence of uncut episodes were a thing), which was interesting to a 12 year old me. All of his stuff came from fan-subs, and several panels also showed the characters using really foul language according to the subtitles. Did anyone ever watch any of these fan-subs? Were the translations that bad? I'm sure the original Japanese dialogue may have been a tad more mature than especially the Ocean Dub, but I seriously doubt Goku was saying the Japanese equivalent of "Go gently caress yourself" to Nappa or others.
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Feb 23, 2014 20:30
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Metal Loaf posted:Stuff like Angel Cop and some of the other series I found in the "related videos" section (Mad Bull, Cyber City, Psycho Diver; I've never heard of these series before because my knowledge of anime in general is pretty limited) were pretty clearly aimed at an older audience. I was thinking more along the lines of fansubbers cramming a bunch of swearing into brightly-coloured shonen schlock because they want it to be for adults. Yeah I figured that was it in relation to the DBZ fan-subs. Of course, my younger self ate it up because I wanted my Dragon Ball to be serious entertainment for serious people.
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Feb 24, 2014 03:32
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Blue Star posted:Yes, that's exactly what I meant: that it would've been better if they had just beaten the androids in a single episode and that was it, and definitely not that I wish Toriyama had set up a different sort of villain or anything. Well, first Toriyama did set up a different bad guy with Cell, and second what kind of good storytelling would that be? Episode 40 was great, and I am of the opinion that TFS is only getting better with time. A lot of their jokes are really cleverly crafted compared to even the goofy stuff they were pulling in the Freeza saga (for instance, the part where they relied on Freeza ripping Nail's arm off over and over). Maybe their new style of humor/the Cell saga just isn't your cup of tea, but I can't help but feel any attempt to trash their current product is just some misguided cynicism. e: Also, I didn't really get the Toriyama dinosaur joke near the beginning. Was that a reference to Cell? facebook jihad fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Mar 8, 2014 |
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Mar 8, 2014 15:22
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Metal Loaf posted:I've enjoyed most of the Android episodes a lot more when I've rewatched them. Same deal with the Ginyu segment of the Freeza episodes; they seemed to fall a bit flat when they were coming out but I liked them a lot more when I was able to watch them consecutively from start to finish. The fun thing about the Freeza saga is that it was kind of tiered off. You had Cui, then Dodoria and Zarbon, then the Ginyu force, and finally Freeza. Like, they were all villains and stronger than the heroes at the time, but they were knocked off one by one and it was kind of exciting to see the heroes work through them and how they did it. The Saiyan saga was kind of like that too, at least with the saibamen and Nappa before Vegeta. In the Cell saga and especially the Buu saga it started just being "good guys vs. really strong bad guy" and that was that. Maybe I was just weird but that was what attracted me so much to the show when I started watching, during the Saiyan and Freeza sagas.
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Mar 8, 2014 17:29
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RBX posted:I thought it was he knew he could but wanted Gohan to awaken his power. Cell exploding was unexpected. No. It was made pretty clear by at least Korin that Goku could not beat Cell.
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Mar 9, 2014 06:05
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In reply to the fan base giving Vegeta a lot of poo poo for allowing Cell to achieve his perfect form, I always made the argument that Goku would probably have done the same thing if he were in Vegeta's shoes. It was basically exactly what happened in the Freeza fight, with the exception that Goku could still take on 100% Freeza. It would fit in his "addicted to fighting" personality, although maybe he wouldn't since he cares more about others than Vegeta did at the time.
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Mar 9, 2014 15:24
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the only two names i recognize in this thread are goku and vegeta sorry guys
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Mar 10, 2014 05:44
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Disharmony posted:
I'm sorry, but the differences are still very very subtle. Also, don't bother watching Battle of the Gods on Youtube. There are several videos labelled as "Battle of the Gods" and they are either Yo, Son Goku and Friends Return! or the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans or whatever it's called.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:06
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Ok I'll bite. What is that supposed to be?
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Mar 12, 2014 23:29
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One of my favorite things in DBZ Abridged is after Zarbon piledrives Vegeta into the ground at the end of their first fight. Vegeta gets out of the lake and chokes out "WHY DID I EXPLODE?". The little jokes like that are hilarious to me. I've never seen Cooler's Revenge, but his fifth form kind of irks me. It's established that Freeza's fourth form is his 'true' form, right? Unlike the rest of the villains in DBZ, it's established Freeza's transformations are power downs instead of power ups. So why does Cooler have a fifth form that is more powerful than his fourth? Is he basically a super Cooler in the fifth form? I'm asking because I've never seen it and maybe they explain it in the movie, but that tidbit never really sat well with me since it's a direct contradiction to Freeza's tranformations.
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Mar 15, 2014 02:10
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a cartoon duck posted:The one woman in all of budokai that I can remember made it through the ranks through her secret powerful martial art of taking her clothes off. The bar for women in dragonball was never set particularly high, but I don't think anyone reads a silly-rear end 80s fightmans manga for its commentary on contemporary feminism in Japan. I mean, Bulma was pretty important in the beginning of the show...sort of? I mean she was sexualized six ways to Sunday but she was the most competent of the bunch through up til say the 22nd Tournament
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Mar 15, 2014 21:13
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Why all the hate for Goku in this thread lately
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Mar 17, 2014 04:15
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They died anyway when the planet blew up, so it's all moot anyway
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Mar 18, 2014 18:45
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Mister Roboto posted:Chi chi, Popo, Ox King, etc, etc. turned to chocolate off camera etc. Wasn't Chi Chi transformed into an egg and stomped on or was that just the anime? Regarding Lunch, was there a reason she was just written out of the story when Dragon Ball Z started? No one got the shaft as badly as she did, even Chaozu at least shows up now and then throughout the end.
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Mar 19, 2014 13:51
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Was Yajirobe antagonistic in his debut? All I remember is he killed Cymbal. Also Kami restored the moon the first time during Goku's training. Then Piccolo blew it up again.
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Mar 19, 2014 17:15
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Rich Uncle Chet posted:Technically, Jackie Chun is pretty much the only DB character who has a flawless fight record. But he lost to Tenshinhan? Also definitely get into Dragon Ball if you like DBZ. Honestly I'm not a huge fan of the Pilaf and Red Ribbon Army Sagas, but the series really starts to pick up around the 22nd World Tournament and doesn't start to lose its luster until maybe the Freeza Saga.
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Mar 20, 2014 13:30
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I still remember the day Cartoon Network started showing new episodes of DBZ like it was 9/11. They showed the final two episodes of the old episodes to get you ready, then two new episodes. It was like holy gently caress a new era of time has begun. e: Also Burter was my favorite member of the Ginyu Force for some reason. I was kinda sad how easily he got wiped out.
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Mar 22, 2014 20:23
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furiouskoala posted:I remember thinking him and Jeice would be a good fight, because the reruns would restart midway through the fight with Recoom, which built them up by DBZ logic (fights always went from weakest to strongest). I actually just rewatched it. It's not a bad fight in its own, just...short. The Ginyu fight is about my least favorite fight in the series though. The whole body change thing was really really stupid. I just don't get how Ginyu did not already know that his power level wasn't going to be anywhere near Goku's. He's surely done the body change before, so how did he not know that? Just a really dumb concept that robbed the series of what could have been an interesting fight.
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Mar 22, 2014 21:13
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SatansBestBuddy posted:It was a pretty nice twist, though. Bad guy admits he's outmatched, then WHAM, fist through his chest, now he's got magic powers and Goku is hosed while Ginyu runs off with his body to wreck poo poo up. The alternative would have been Goku curbstomping him and then moving on to Frieza, instead he's out of the game for a while and everybody has to fend for themselves until he's back. Except Goku had already been out of the game throughout the entire saga at that point. So it went from being what could've been a cool fight Goku could have won while struggling a bit, to literally more of the same stuff. But yeah, that's Dragon Ball Z in a nut shell: wait around til Goku comes back to wreck poo poo up. Dragon Ball in its entirety is almost completely focused on Goku, but at least Goku was around for most of the original series.
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Mar 23, 2014 00:22
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Zonekeeper posted:I have to agree. Goku didn't even manage to get up to Vegeta's level on Kai's planet and had to rely on the Kaio-ken to keep up with him. (Guess what those guys didn't get taught!) This is after possibly receiving a huge power boost from getting revived from death. Filler is stupid, but so are power levels. There is just no feasible way that any one but Goku could stand up to Freeza even in his first form. Unless Piccolo's fuse with Nail really boosted him from like below Zarbon to handling second form Freeza.
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Mar 23, 2014 19:36
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Steve Jorbs posted:Well, Piccolo only fought against Freeza after training with King Kai, being wished back to life, and absorbing Nail. By the time the Ginyu Force arrived at King Kai's only the humans were left. As well, Vegeta and crew were thoroughly smashed by Recoome until Goku showed up and one-shot him. Vegeta was only able to stand against the rest of the Ginyu Force after the zenkai boost of nearly dying, again, and getting a senzu bean from Goku. Although the one kill he scored was against an unconscious opponent. In addition to this, King Kai's training only got Goku to a little better than Nappa without the kaioken that no one else learns. Goku only gets as strong as he did with the zenkai from the Vegeta fight and the intense training on his way to Namek. Logically there is no way in hell that The Other Guys could take on the Ginyu Force. I'm repeating myself here, but Dragon Ball did this better instead of resorting to these illogical power gaps (i.e., the characters getting much more out of Kami's training than Goku, apparently). Goku got these special power ups while every one else did their own thing or followed in Goku's footsteps (mostly Yamcha and Krillin still training with Master Roshi while Goku was set free). Goku's training was better, but everyone else's was still effective. For instance, while Goku was with Kami the others trained with Korin and did their own thing. They were stronger for their efforts, but Goku still blew them away. There was consistency. There wasn't consistency in DBZ with people's power ups. The inconsistency of course is really just Toriyama not really caring about the side characters and powering them up to however he sees fit. But as my last post said, the Freeza thing just makes no loving sense. For Piccolo to handle second form Freeza must have meant that his fuse with Nail must have multiplied his power by at least twenty times, assuming Piccolo's King Kai training left him at about the strength of a Ginyu Force member (even that's a stretch). I can understand Vegeta handling Jeice after his zenkai, but then for the characters to have logically any chance against Freeza is where the logic starts to unravel. Toriyama really overpowered Freeza to a level that stretches belief for anyone to realistically fight him, at least until Goku's SSJ. Again, arguing power levels is stupid. It's a fun show regardless but the power creep is really something no one should think about seriously. Also, regarding DBM. I loved the current special issue but it's kind of fallen with the last few pages. Seems like the author had more in mind but had to cut it short due to page limits for instance, wasn't the Ginyu Force supposed to show up earlier? The Zarbon fight was really good though.
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Mar 24, 2014 05:28
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furiouskoala posted:Piccolo matching Freeza makes sense if you assume namekian fusion works like the Potara earrings, multiplying their power levels together. Put Piccolo at a conservative 25000 before fusing with Nail and his 40000 and it puts him right around 1 million. It also explains why fusing with Kami made such a difference, even though Kami was weak he still multiplied Piccolo's power by a few hundred times. I don't want to be that guy, but this would put Piccolo at a billion. He'd be able to wipe the floor with Freeza at a 100% at that level. And yeah, power levels are bullshit, but they kinda weren't in the first part of DBZ. Radditz was still overall stronger than Goku and Piccolo barring some flashes of strength from them. Same with Nappa and Vegeta. Even through the Ginyu fight with Goku. It just got really dumb after that point. It was really good that Toriyama got rid of the concept after the Freeza saga.
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Mar 24, 2014 21:12
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You're comparing apples to oranges here though. I'm not arguing that Krillin's kienzan would not be able to slice Nappa's head off. Or that Radditz shouldn't have lost to A Suddenly Very Powerful Gohan. I am arguing Nappa should and did beat the gang with his higher power level. Same with Radditz. Just because Piccolo and Krillin have tricks up their sleeves means nothing. Piccolo didn't use the special beam cannon on Freeza, he fought him with brute force. Same with Goku. Hell, his trick--the spirit bomb--didn't work on Freeza because his power level was too high. We agree overall but I still contend that the power levels just got stupid and sloppy when it came to time to fight Freeza. Which they did. No level of 'power levels were meant to be bullshit all along!' hand waving will erase how that part of the Freeza saga was sloppily done.
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Mar 24, 2014 21:40
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Away all Goats posted:Toriyama actually wanted to end the series at Cell(after being convinced to continue it after Freiza), with Gohan becoming Goku's successor as Earth's protector. I thought it was proven that all these 'Toriyama wanted to end the series at x' stories were mere speculation.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:32
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I thought Piccolo had something to do with it too. Like he knew who he was...didn't he step down from his first round bout with Supreme Kai?
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Apr 17, 2014 02:49
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I liked the filler where Goku sits on the egg and pretty much ditches his family. Then he shows up in all shucks fashion and his family, who was furious with him for missing something important that day, forgives him in classic 50s sitcom fashion.
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May 7, 2014 00:03
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WickedHate posted:Or having Goku no sell his Death Beam. Are you that freezer guy? I am lord Freeza, yes. Such a small exchange but it pretty much sums up DBZA Freeza for me.
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May 7, 2014 21:45
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Gammatron 64 posted:It is kind of odd seeing guys like Piccolo, Vegeta and Android 18 becoming good guys when before they were mass murdering psychopaths. Okay, so Piccolo Jr. wasn't really that bad, Piccolo Sr. was more the crazy murdering type, but Vegeta wiped out entire planets and killed Nappa just because. He single-handedly committed genocide multiple times. Maybe it's just the DBZ effecting my viewing, but Piccolo Jr. in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai always seemed like he was faking it. There are just parts throughout it that make it seem like he doesn't have the same evil side his father does, although he desperately tries to act like he does. I don't think he commits a single act of cold blooded murder in the manga, although I could be totally wrong about that. Also, with regards to Vegeta talk. Vegeta is always more chill and less evil when he's been humbled by Goku/Android 18/Cell/whoever. He goes into pompous rear end in a top hat mode whenever he gets a powerup and thinks he's on equal or higher footing as the strongest (Vegeta at SSJ and SSJ form 2), but outside of that he's just your typical anti-hero. See cyborg Freeza, post-Perfect Cell beatdown in the Cell Saga, and naturally when he comes back in the Buu saga.
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May 8, 2014 23:18
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