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Please don't murder me, but Keanu Reeves could make a good Armitage, because he has cold, blank expression down pat. I started Count Zero, but I'm going back to re-read Neuromancer before continuing it. And by reread, I mean inject it into my brain at 650 words-per-minute using spreeder. Not something I would do with a book that I hadn't read before, but it's working surprisingly well and it feel cyberpunk as poo poo.
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Mar 17, 2014 14:52
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I thought of it after seeing him in Man of Tai Chi. I can't find a great screenshot, but his character in that movie is very mechanically reserved and sinister, with boiling rage just barely contained. Which isn't how I would describe Armitage, but I think if he could play his character in Man of Tai Chi that way on purpose, he could pull off Armitage. edit: Well part of it is that he's like a foot taller than the titular 'Man of Tai Chi' but he pulls off being an incredibly imposing cold blooded killer in that movie. So I guess it depends who else is cast in the film... I mean I'm not arguing that there aren't plenty of better actors for the role, of course there are, it was just a thought. After seeing the Oldboy remake, Josh Brolin could definitely pull it off. Snak fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 20:11
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Olivia Wilde would definitely fit, but I really wish the Gina Carano was a better actress, just for the fight scenes. I cannot get enough of her. I can't picture Armitage having a giant Screaming Fist tattoo... does he have that in the book?
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Mar 18, 2014 00:01
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Ensign_Ricky posted:He does not. Wintermute pretty much rebuilt his whole body from the word go, afterall. That's why I couldn't picture it. According to my memory, Armitage might not even know he's Corto. I can't remember if there's a 3rd act reveal about it...
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Mar 18, 2014 15:03
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SnakePlissken posted:You're reminding me right now that in Resident Evil 2 there's a scene or two where Alice walks past a bank of payphones and they all ring once as she walks past them. Unrelated but anyway. It's worse than that, it's not a bank of payphones. They are in sequence, spread out, like every 50 feet.
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Apr 18, 2014 12:35
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I'm reading Count Zero now for the first time after having read Neuromancer awhile back and then recently reread about 3/4 of it. Count Zero is amazing so far, and I think I actually like it better than Neuromancer. Gibson just makes everything feel so visceral. It's engrossing.
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Apr 23, 2014 15:13
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That's part of why I like Count Zero more than Neuromancer. I have not read any other Gibson yet, so I can't compare otherwise. Characters in Neuromancer were much more archetypal than in Count Zero and maybe more fetishized.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:21
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Johnny Mnemonic may have been a completely terrible movie, but I think it captured a very Gibson-esque look and setting. Everything was gritty and dirty and used looking. But yeah, not a good movie.
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May 7, 2014 18:04
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I finished Count Zero, and I absolutely loved it. I actually liked it better than Neuromancer I think, because the characters were a little less archetypal... But I made the mistake of starting Pattern Recognition next. I thought it was off to a great start by when I got the part near the beginning where the super rich influential guy (Bigend) hires the Cayce, who is a progeny of creative instinct, to track down the creator of a mysterious and mindblowing series of art pieces, I had to put it down because I just read this book!
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May 23, 2014 19:43
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SnakePlissken posted:Heheh yeah, that happens with his books. He recycles ideas a lot, and usually it's to good effect. I personally liked Pattern Recognition better, and there were several years' separation between the two books. I felt like Count Zero was too cartoonish and Pattern Recognition was a more poignant rendition of a similar theme, IIRC. What did you find cartoonish about Count Zero? and did you like Neuromancer? Because I thought that despite the setting being the same, Count Zero was much less over the top than Neuromancer.
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May 24, 2014 00:31
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I kind of like the modern covers, if they're the ones I'm thinking of. At least they aren't pictures of badasses or space ships or whatever. The are abstract and imply complexity.
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May 24, 2014 02:53
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SnakePlissken posted:I think Neuromancer had a sheen of plausibility that kept it going for me despite the Rastafarians in space. Or maybe my identification with Case allowed me to suspend my disbelief a bit more. I'm not a hacker and never was but some of Case's character I could identify with. Like the back of one of Gibson's novels said, 'rustbelt refugee.' Case is the best part of Neuromancer because he's a really believable deadbeat. I identify with him too, but it's a bit hard to put my finger on why. I think it's really interesting how Count Zero almost stands completely on its own, but you really need to have read Neuromancer to get certain bits. I think my favorite moment in Count Zero is the first time that Bobby sees Turner. Turner is no doubt a badass, but chapters from his point of view reveal his doubts and general low opinion of himself. He's kind of lost. So when he is described from the point of view of the dumb rich-kid hacker, it's really neat to see the same character described from a different point of view, where he just sees him as an imposing badass.
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May 24, 2014 19:24
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I just finished Pattern Recognition the other day... I really loved it, although reading it immediately after Count Zero was very strange. I'm pretty sure wanted to explore the ideas in the artist plot of Count Zero without the distraction of the scifi setting and action elements. And I think that he succeeded. I think that he's very good at writing his characters as realistically insecure, and captures pretty well the way that regular people are just faking their way through things sometimes. I did not feel at all like Pattern Recognition built to a climax, which is strange, but okay. I actually think that about Neuromancer and Count Zero as well. It could just be the way I read, I suppose, but it seems like two major elements contribute to this: First, he spreads intense events pretty even throughout all three those books. There are exciting things happening in the beginning, the middle, and the end. He definitely doesn't save "the big action scene" for the ending. Second, these books are so much about ideas, and the characters coming to realize, understand, or accept them. But it's not generally a big revelation at the end, it's more often a confirmation of what the character already suspects. Cathartic for both the character and the viewer, but not necessarily dramatic. I'm going to have to read everything he's ever written, I think... But for now I'm reading Philip K. Dick's VALIS, I assume there's a PKD thread about...
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Jun 10, 2014 19:19
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Since I just finished reading Pattern Recognition I decided to look up Curta calculators... I can see why the chapter where they were introduced was called "Math Grenades"  They are fascinating and unfortunately cost between $1,100 and $1,900.
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Jun 15, 2014 18:21
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Overbite posted:I actually enjoyed Billy Idol's Cyberpunk Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I like Count Zero better. It still has plenty of his visceral descriptions, but I think it strikes a much better balance with the story.
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Oct 23, 2014 04:17
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Eruonen posted:I read Snow Crash for the first time fairly recently (like two years ago) so maybe that's the reason why I thought it was awful. I seriously don't get why it's so loved. I read it for the first time like two months ago. It's awful. Like, it's entertaining and there are some neat ideas in it, but it's the gooniest loving thing. Literally about a dude who thinks katanas are better than guns and is the best virtual reality swordfighter AND hacker in the world who delivers pizzas for the mafia. Every character is written exactly the same. Apparently a minigun being named "Reason" is a hilarious pun that everyone loves, but like most of the "clever" or "funny" parts it's just horrible groan-worthy. "I told you they would listed to reason"  Don't get me wrong, I really like Neil Stephenson, but not for his characters, humor, or "action sequences", and it really shows that Snow Crash is one of his earlier books. I hate the action scenes in all of his books.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:33
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ulmont posted:...whose name is - and this is no spoiler (it's on the back and on page 1) - "Hiro Protagonist." To me that's just another "look how edgy/quirky this thing is". The only actually engaging idea in Snow Crash was that ancient traditions and codes of conduct were conceptually similar to to functions or subroutines in programming, and that just like mechanical production, religious devotion could be automated. Also the robo dogs. Those were great. And idea that criminal organizations might become legally recognized corporations without their operations ever being interrupted. I think that Stephenson's greatest strength as a writer is taking a concept and weaving a half-dozen examples of it together in a story. He's a writer who's great at coming up with an interesting argument, and building support for it in the reader's mind before he even explains it. He researches his ideas and subjects meticulously and puts a lot of thought into what he writes. But when he tries to write "badass" things, he really loses me.
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Oct 26, 2014 04:05
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precision posted:The Sumerian stuff in Snow Crash is easily the best part of it. Most everything else is 90s as gently caress. I don't really have a problem appreciating Snow Crash as a parody of cyberpunk cliches, but people who recommend it or sing its praises seem to mainly consider it "awesome" in its own right. as was mentioned a little while ago... (In response to the question "In a fight between you and William Gibson, who would win?") Neal Stephenson posted:You don't have to settle for mere idle speculation. Let me tell you how it came out on the three occasions when we did fight. ...That's Stephenson trying to be funny and badass at the same time and it reads like Tom Clancy scifi fanfic. And yet this is the man who wrote Anathem, which redefined my concept of reality.
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Oct 26, 2014 08:37
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precision posted:Gibson, the older he gets, seems to be getting so much more polite about sex and sexuality, like if you go back and read the sex scene near the beginning of Mona Lisa Overdrive, he would never write something like that today. Not that it's a bad scene, it's actually really well done and makes you feel appropriately horrible for Mona and her life, but modern day Gibson is very different. I also like that he basically writes "happily ever after" at the end of his stories these days. He strikes me as being very un-cynical, which is kinda funny. Yeah, between that scene, which is really powerful and accurate, I think, and a scene in "Dogfight", older Gibson definitely has an effective vulgarity about sex. The way that he writes about substance abuse is probably the thing that hooks me the most about his writing. He clearly has an intimate understanding of habitual self-destructive behavior. I had actually started Mona Lisa Overdrive and was really enjoying it, but someone got me The Peripheral for Christmas so I switched over to it so that I could join the discussion on here. I'm about 2/3 of the way through it I think. It's good, but definitely not his best, I think. It reminds me a lot of Pattern Recognition, but not as good. Although it obviously has a lot more scifi elements than PR, so I'm still curious to see where it all goes. Most frustraighting thing so far is that no one in the future seems to know any more about their own setting than I do? Who are the Patchers? How come the whole opening of the book was about that and it feels like I've been reading a totally different book since? They are getting ready to go to Daedra's party though, so probably if I just shut up and read more...
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Jan 27, 2015 22:36
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Finally finished The Peripheral. I liked it for sure. The setting was so rich, I was kind of expecting a little more from the story itself. Griff being Lowbeer blindsided me, mostly because I was expecting Flynne to be Lowbeer. The patchers thing never turned into anything, but it felt like it was practically from a different book anyway... Daedra/Hamad/Aelita's scheme was pretty pedestrian (basically a Lex Luthor plot), which is okay I guess. I really liked how "post-cyberpunk" the setting was. Now I'm really curious about Gibson's history with addiction/addicts, since both it's not only a common theme in his writing, but both Neuromancer and The Peripheral feature characters who are artificially/forcefully prevented from indulging in their addictions... Not gonna lie I was really hoping that Netherton was going to get to drink near the end, because it would be like his assertion of victory over his circumstances, something that is arguably what all the characters are trying to achieve. I also thought it was kind of silly how quickly the future was able to influence the stub. Like I get that they can basically throw infinite money at problems, but bureaucracy does not work that fast. I guess it must in the near future. I just can imagine and inbound drone strike being aborted with minutes to spare because a company got bought out. Like, just the time to make the phonecalls and explain to the relevant people what's going on would take too long. Overall, great read. Very topical, Gibson still has it and knows what's going on. Still not as good as Pattern Recognition for me, because in Pattern Recognition I feel like I got to really engage with the protagonist, and in The Peripheral I felt like the protagonist just sort of accepted everything that was happening and had about two emotional reactions (seeing Aelita's murder, and learning about the nerve agent). The Peripheral just had so many characters, many of who do very little, that it was harder for me to connect with any of them. At the same time, all of the characters did ring true, and the relationships, both personal and professional were very accurate. So I guess after a short break of non-Gibson stuff, I'm going to go back and finish Mona Lisa Overdrive (because I'd already started it when I received PR as a gift) and then finish the Blue Ant trilogy.
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Feb 20, 2015 00:20
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Not reading your spoiler, because I'm very near the beginning of MLO, but yeah, he clearly has some personal experiences either with addiction or addicts. He spent a lot of time hanging out with hippies, so he probably did encounter plenty of varying degrees of substance abuse. Without going into too much detail about myself, I find the authenticity of the way his characters used drugs and alcohol to be very powerful. He doesn't glamorize it either. When he's writing from the point of view of characters that are addicts, you can tell that character views their drug use very different from other characters. In The Peripheral you can tell that Netherton is always of the impression that he deserves or needs a drink, and that having one won't screw himself or anything up. He is literally constantly aware of his chances of scoring a drink. Every time he actually gets to drink, he gets shitfaced. From say, Ashe and Ossian's perspective, they are constantly babysitting this rear end in a top hat who got them into this mess and he's just trying to get drunk all the time. Both PR and Neuromancer have the theme that sobriety is a necessary step to unlock the true potential of person.
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Feb 20, 2015 02:01
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the talent deficit posted:
Griff and Lowbeer have literally the same hands. Not something everyone would notice, but the protagonist did.
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Apr 13, 2015 04:30
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S.T.C.A. posted:Fairly certain it was not literally the same hands so much as the same quirk to arrange the food just-so. Actually, it's pretty unclear the type of cyberization that goes on in this world. Their medical technology is so advanced that it's not actually implied that Lowbeer would necessarily have artificial/prosthetic body parts to have lived so long. It's entirely possible that, in Lowbeer's continuity, Griff got gender re-assignment surgery and has been kept in good health ever since. Not saying you're wrong, I just got the vibe that his hands weren’t something she felt needed to be changed.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:11
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The Peripheral had some interesting ideas, but I actually felt it wasn't as good as a lot of Gibson's other work. I found myself a lot more engaged with the protagonists of Pattern Recognition and Mona Lisa Overdrive. It definitely wasn't bad, but there were times when it felt a lot more like a Neal Stephenson book than what I've come to expect from Gibson. Since I finished it several months ago, it hasn't really stuck with me the way Count Zero and Pattern Recognition have.
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May 29, 2015 19:54
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precision posted:I agree that The Peripheral has some of his weakest character-building yet. The characters are good, but even the best ones are somewhat shorthanded so you can think of them as "The guy with the missing limbs" or whatever. I don't think Wilf's drinking was specifically about direct health consequences. He clearly had very escapist and self destructive tendencies, and responded to his drinking being restricted by drinking as much as he could whenever he got the chance. The point wasn't that the alcohol poisoning itself was damaging to his body, it's that him getting shitfaced all the time was causing him to gently caress up his life and everything else. He was always trying to drink to get in the mood to do things, which obviously his employers would be less than thrilled about. I found the whole thing reminiscent of Case being surgically prevented from using narcotics in Neuromancer.
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May 30, 2015 20:00
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Or even the anthology titled "Burning Chrome". Gibson is capable of a fast pace, and I would say that Neuromancer is fast-paced, but when in doubt, short stories are inherently fast-paced.
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Dec 26, 2015 08:43
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Snapchat A Titty posted:Hinterlands from Burning Chrome is probably my favorite sci fi short ever. It's not connected to any of the trilogies, thouhg. It's just evocative as hell. Burning Chrome is a great loving collection. "The Belonging Kind" is PKD as hell and I really like it. So is "The Gernsback Continuum" actually.
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Dec 30, 2015 22:52
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Dogfight was good, but it's too sad and uncomfortable for me to read again.
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Dec 30, 2015 23:24
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Snapchat A Titty posted:Sad is good sometimes! Yeah, I can't agree more, but he kinda rapes that girl who's brain has been wired to perceive human touch as pain. That's pretty hosed up.
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Dec 30, 2015 23:31
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I mean, it's kind of part of the same exploration of sad, dark ways that human nature twists itself, it's not out of place in the story, but I don't want to read about it again any time soon.
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Dec 31, 2015 00:01
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