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Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


PeterWeller posted:

Haha, that's actually where I got the idea. I figured if Bioware, with all their resources, could get away with using the same map over and over again for Baldur's Gate's extensive sewers, I could get away with doing the same for Neverwinter. I never start them in the same entrance/room and change little things here and there, but it really helps from a DMing perspective--if the players go into the sewers and have an encounter for any reason, I have a map ready for them.

I'm just curious why your players are constantly going into the sewers.

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My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

I'm picturing four bullywug monks.

Gravybong
Apr 24, 2007

Smokin' weed all day. All I do is smoke weed. Every day of my life it's all I do. I don't give a FUCK! Weed.
Is it a terrible idea to mix in Monster Manual 1 monsters with Essentials (I have the Threats to the Nentir Vale book)? I'm running my first 4e campaign starting this Sunday, and my possible party of 6(!) is going to wake up in a kobold prison; when they get outside, they'll run into a few more kobolds arguing with some other group of humanoids about how much to pay for the prisoners. I'd be using some lvl 1-2 enemies from the Nentir Vale for the negotiating party, and the kobolds from MM1. I can re-do the kobolds with MM3 math probably, but at first glance, having the kobolds be a little harder to bring down, even though they do less damage, seems like an interesting encounter mashup?

Klungar
Feb 12, 2008

Klungo make bessst ever video game, 'Hero Klungo Sssavesss Teh World.'

SeraphSlaughter posted:

Is it a terrible idea to mix in Monster Manual 1 monsters with Essentials (I have the Threats to the Nentir Vale book)? I'm running my first 4e campaign starting this Sunday, and my possible party of 6(!) is going to wake up in a kobold prison; when they get outside, they'll run into a few more kobolds arguing with some other group of humanoids about how much to pay for the prisoners. I'd be using some lvl 1-2 enemies from the Nentir Vale for the negotiating party, and the kobolds from MM1. I can re-do the kobolds with MM3 math probably, but at first glance, having the kobolds be a little harder to bring down, even though they do less damage, seems like an interesting encounter mashup?

There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

Klungar posted:

There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats.

I think this overstates the case. Many of them are fine right out of the box (solos and soldiers being the main problem children).

Gravybong
Apr 24, 2007

Smokin' weed all day. All I do is smoke weed. Every day of my life it's all I do. I don't give a FUCK! Weed.

Klungar posted:

There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats.

That's what I thought. I have the Monster Match Cruncher bookmarked + "MM3 on a business card" saved, so it shouldn't be a huge timesink.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

SeraphSlaughter posted:

Is it a terrible idea to mix in Monster Manual 1 monsters with Essentials (I have the Threats to the Nentir Vale book)? I'm running my first 4e campaign starting this Sunday, and my possible party of 6(!) is going to wake up in a kobold prison; when they get outside, they'll run into a few more kobolds arguing with some other group of humanoids about how much to pay for the prisoners. I'd be using some lvl 1-2 enemies from the Nentir Vale for the negotiating party, and the kobolds from MM1. I can re-do the kobolds with MM3 math probably, but at first glance, having the kobolds be a little harder to bring down, even though they do less damage, seems like an interesting encounter mashup?
If you are at Level 1 or 2, just stay away from MM1 Elites & Solos and you'll be fine.

If you have Compendium access or Monster Vault, that's even better, but really - they work out of the box. It's only at mid-Heroic and later that you REALLY start to notice.

Gravybong
Apr 24, 2007

Smokin' weed all day. All I do is smoke weed. Every day of my life it's all I do. I don't give a FUCK! Weed.

dwarf74 posted:

If you are at Level 1 or 2, just stay away from MM1 Elites & Solos and you'll be fine.

If you have Compendium access or Monster Vault, that's even better, but really - they work out of the box. It's only at mid-Heroic and later that you REALLY start to notice.

I might pick up Monster Vault in a month or two when I have some more cash on hand, I blew a good portion of my disposable budget on Player's Handbook 2 (roommates who are in on it really wanted to play Bard + Warden) and Threats to the Nentir Vale. I'm sure I can pull enough level 1 encounters out of there for the first month or two we're playing, and since we're only doing it once or twice a month, I don't expect us to get into Heroic for a while. But it's good to know I can leave a few hp-buffed monsters in if they look ok at first blush.

Great, now I can focus on a few different ways to tie "kidnapped by kobold sellswords" into the larger plot-arc I have planned.

LightWarden
Mar 18, 2007

Lander county's safe as heaven,
despite all the strife and boilin',
Tin Star,
Oh how she's an icon of the eastern west,
But now the time has come to end our song,
of the Tin Star, the Tin Star!

homullus posted:

I think this overstates the case. Many of them are fine right out of the box (solos and soldiers being the main problem children).

I once played a session where we fought a level 7 solo soldier MM1 Red Dragon... at level 3. After a many rounds of whiffing and plinking away at the target, the DM just cut straight to the end and that was that.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Klungar posted:

There is a reason why MM3 math replaced MM1 math. Creatures with lots of HP that do small amounts of damage do not make for interesting encounters, they make for boring slogs. Please do not use pre-MM3 monsters without converting their stats.

Just going to point out that, while I agree with the math stuff, I absolutely hate the MM3 and onward's monster blocks and wish they'd kept the original layout. This might just come down to personal preference, but it really bugs me.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!
It's worth noting that the scaling problems are less pronounced at level 1, and more so the longer you play, so it may not seem bad early on but it will do later...

Gravybong
Apr 24, 2007

Smokin' weed all day. All I do is smoke weed. Every day of my life it's all I do. I don't give a FUCK! Weed.

thespaceinvader posted:

It's worth noting that the scaling problems are less pronounced at level 1, and more so the longer you play, so it may not seem bad early on but it will do later...

Yeah, after comparing the Kobolds I want as they appear in MM1 (Skirmisher, Slinger, and Dragonshield), they are actually easier in MM1 than if I make a similar creature in the 4e Monster Math Cruncher. 1 or 2 less HP, and slightly less in the defense area. Not so much for the level 3 controller that's arguing with more kobolds outside.

MMD3
May 16, 2006

Montmartre -> Portland
I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use.

Can anybody recommend a fun gimmick to use for a lvl3 caster?

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

MMD3 posted:

I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use.

Can anybody recommend a fun gimmick to use for a lvl3 caster?
Vanilla Icestorm.

MMD3
May 16, 2006

Montmartre -> Portland

This should do the trick nicely, thank you!

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011

I think the only lowish level monster that I really prefer the new version of is definitely the orc. Free attack at it's death throes is light years more interesting than spending a healing surge, which is basically just more HP.

P.d0t
Dec 27, 2007
I released my finger from the trigger, and then it was over...

Rexides posted:

I think the only lowish level monster that I really prefer the new version of is definitely the orc. Free attack at it's death throes is light years more interesting than spending a healing surge, which is basically just more HP.

For the record, though, the orc leader-type from MM1 grants his allies the same sort of death-throe ability within a certain area. The Warrior's Surge thing is one I think would be good for 2-hit monsters.

SenatorASSFACE
Nov 21, 2002

do NOT make LIGHT of my GESTICULATION

MMD3 posted:

I need to roll up a lvl3 gimmick character for a short play session tomorrow night. Our group is going to give roll20.net a try to see how it'd work for our main campaign and we're rolling up some throw away characters to use.

Can anybody recommend a fun gimmick to use for a lvl3 caster?

I'll be in that same game. Since this worked so well for mmd3, does anyone have a lvl3 tank I could try?

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Lurdiak posted:

I'm just curious why your players are constantly going into the sewers.

Sewers are city based campaign's most obvious dungeon. :colbert:

But seriously, their first adventure was clearing out a nest of kobolds led by a white dragon (I know, I know, the most cliched 4E adventure possible, but new players should get to beat up a dragon in their first adventure). Later, their hunt for the leader of a Cyricist cult led them on a chase through the sewers. And most recently, they tracked a group of wererats to their lair in, you guessed it, the sewers. A lot of hooks in the Neverwinter campaign book involve the city's sewers.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really.

Also how is it supposed to work out that half the items you find are supposed to be common when there are only like 10% common items, is everyone just supposed to end up with Bracers of Mighty Striking? Sod that I'm making my own list. (Using PHB/AV/___Power books only though, maybe it's different with items from Essentials stuff.)

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

My Lovely Horse posted:

Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really.

Also how is it supposed to work out that half the items you find are supposed to be common when there are only like 10% common items, is everyone just supposed to end up with Bracers of Mighty Striking? Sod that I'm making my own list. (Using PHB/AV/___Power books only though, maybe it's different with items from Essentials stuff.)
The decent one I heard was to convert all component costs to healing surges, based on value. Googling to try and find a decent compiled list has not turned out very well, though.

Chaltab
Feb 16, 2011

So shocked someone got me an avatar!
I've generally handled it by having pay-as-you-go rituals. Like, the player notes 'ritual components' on their sheet but the actual value is unstated unless and until rituals are performed.

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011

For magic items I plan to introduce a group of astral-faring githzerai merchants who buy and sell magical items using their own currency (maybe residium?), so rituals and magic items will run on completely different resources and there won't be an opportunity cost between them.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

PeterWeller posted:

Sewers are city based campaign's most obvious dungeon. :colbert:


And THIS is why every video game has a sewer level. It's all a rich tapestry.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
So Holy poo poo, guys. I ran my players through the first part of the first Zeitgeist adventure last night. loving amazing. One of those sessions that makes me thrilled to be a DM.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

dwarf74 posted:

So Holy poo poo, guys. I ran my players through the first part of the first Zeitgeist adventure last night. loving amazing. One of those sessions that makes me thrilled to be a DM.

After all the nice things you've said about it, I went and looked at it and picked it up, since it was not that expensive. Could you say more about what you like so much? Because my ultra-cursory read of it is that it's really meant for players who will actually read the "players should read this" sections and enjoy getting newspaper clipping handouts and such. Those things are exciting to me, but it definitely requires a certain level of investment.

Echophonic
Sep 16, 2005

ha;lp
Gun Saliva

My Lovely Horse posted:

Are there any good commonly accepted alternative ritual casting rules, maybe ones that use a different limiting circumstance than components? I'm not that worried about the usual concern that you're mechanically better off saving up for items, mostly I just don't want to bother with the concept of components because it ends up as either "no you can't cast this you didn't pick up enough components three sessions ago" or gets handwaved away anyway. Playing a bit more fast and loose with the casting times would be nice too, my players usually feel they have time, just not exactly ten minutes, and then just don't bother with the ritual. Playing more fast and loose with anything, really.

Also how is it supposed to work out that half the items you find are supposed to be common when there are only like 10% common items, is everyone just supposed to end up with Bracers of Mighty Striking? Sod that I'm making my own list. (Using PHB/AV/___Power books only though, maybe it's different with items from Essentials stuff.)

My groups been using a rituals per day system. It's 3/4/5 by tier for no cost, with any free ones you get from ritual mastery feats being added on. Works pretty well, haven't really needed more.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

homullus posted:

After all the nice things you've said about it, I went and looked at it and picked it up, since it was not that expensive. Could you say more about what you like so much? Because my ultra-cursory read of it is that it's really meant for players who will actually read the "players should read this" sections and enjoy getting newspaper clipping handouts and such. Those things are exciting to me, but it definitely requires a certain level of investment.
It does to an extent, so it's not for every group, but it proved such for mine. It's a healthy mix of social intrigue, politics, skills, exploration, and combat. My group is casual, but doesn't mind reading a few pages on occasion.

The opener of the first adventure took a lot of prep on my end, but it played out fantastically. They were very involved and on edge for almost two hours of play time trying to make sure the steamship they were on didn't blow up. At one point, they were six rounds from explosion.

It was a nice change of pace because it's not often that "killing the bad guys" is the least important thing you should be doing.

dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 13, 2014

Rohan Kishibe
Oct 29, 2011

Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.

Echophonic posted:

My groups been using a rituals per day system. It's 3/4/5 by tier for no cost, with any free ones you get from ritual mastery feats being added on. Works pretty well, haven't really needed more.

Probably gonna start doing this, and any past that takes healing surges. Might get my players to start actually using riruals. :v:

Some classes get Ritual Casting for free. Anyone forsee any issues with letting all classes the option of taking Ritual Caster, Practiced Study or the Alchemy one for free?

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Prison Warden posted:

Probably gonna start doing this, and any past that takes healing surges. Might get my players to start actually using riruals. :v:

Some classes get Ritual Casting for free. Anyone forsee any issues with letting all classes the option of taking Ritual Caster, Practiced Study or the Alchemy one for free?

My 2 cents would be to give folks one free, to be on par with classes that already get one free. Or give 2 free (with one extra for classes that get one as a feature)

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Maxwell Lord posted:

And THIS is why every video game has a sewer level. It's all a rich tapestry.

I grew up in NYC with all its attendant sewer-based urban legends, so the whole thing has always seemed quite natural to me. Of course the villains' lairs are accessed via the sewer. In Eberron, you may add abandoned lightning rail tunnels to the mix.

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011

Error 404 posted:

My 2 cents would be to give folks one free, to be on par with classes that already get one free. Or give 2 free (with one extra for classes that get one as a feature)

Can we expand that to have a new track of non-combat feat slots on levels you don't get a normal feat were you get to pick a non-combat one? Things like rituals, skill training/focus feats, stuff like that? Sort of how the game already silos powers into attack and utility (although utility powers do have combat applications). Has anyone tried something like that?

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

quote:

ritual ideas
All good ideas, thanks - I'll run them past my group. Or rather, the one ritual caster, which should make things easier. Maybe I'll also just sit down with him whenever he gets a new ritual and agree on how we want that particular one fueled, with freely available components, healing surges, unique sidequest components and imitating a chicken all on the table as options.

Really I think I like healing surges best because they're always an available resource, but you have to pace yourself. It just might get tough replicating the effect that rituals have when you get higher in levels, when you have so much money the early ones are essentially free. But then again that was an aspect I never really liked when we did use components. "That oracle was bloody useless, let's summon another three."

UrbanLabyrinth
Jan 28, 2009

When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence


College Slice

My Lovely Horse posted:

Really I think I like healing surges best because they're always an available resource, but you have to pace yourself. It just might get tough replicating the effect that rituals have when you get higher in levels, when you have so much money the early ones are essentially free. But then again that was an aspect I never really liked when we did use components. "That oracle was bloody useless, let's summon another three."

Easy enough to imitate: rituals cost 2 healing surges to cast. Rituals 5 levels below you cost 1 the first time each day they're each cast, and 2 after that. Rituals 10 levels below are free the first time you cast each one each day, otherwise 1 surge.

You might want to allow characters to donate surges towards spell casting even if they're not the caster though. Also this doesn't replace the cost for item creation rituals, of course.

Drake_263
Mar 31, 2010
Hokay, so, I got roped into GMing some Dungeons and dragons for a group at the local gaming club. I picked 4th edition because I'm the most familiar with that and 3.5 and let's face it, 3.ANYTHING is a pain in the neck to teach to players unfamiliar with the system.. and out of the four players I currently have, three qualify. (Trying to hunt for a fith, I have a few weeks to get everything built up.) Since most of the players are new to the system I'm running PHB1 only - not out of grognardism, I love having more options, but I don't want to overwhelm the newbies. If they end up enjoying the game and want to later branch out, I'll be all up for the idea.

I decided to build my own adventure/campaign since I've had some ideas for ages and all the pre-made adventures I've found are, well, the quality's come up before.

quote:

Brief Synopsis: The PCs are traveling with a merchant caravan to Glimwall, a small mountainside mining village. On arrival, they find the town surrounded by camps of belligerent Orcs - and the town itself ravaged by a plague that's tainted their water supply. The PCs will have to descend into the depths of the silver mine the town was named for and neutralize the source of the plague in order to save Glimwall.

The adventure's going to be divided roughly into three separate sections, each with its own themes and challenges.

quote:

Part the first: Glimwall and its environs.

This will be essentially the intro sequence for the adventure - I'll start the group out in the caravan on the last leg of its journey Glimwall. (Sidenote, I'm going to basically tell each of the players to make me up a reason why their character would be going to Glimwall and tweak things accordingly - I'm all for letting the players build the story with me, so if one of them happens to have a reclusive minor nobleman for a cousin who lives there, gently caress, a little manor there will be! The more engaged they are, the better.)

A strange, thick, sickly-sweet-smelling fog has risen with the dawn, making it hard to navigate - it's going to be slow going, but the caravan can follow along the road easily enough. This is basically a little period for roleplaying, a moment to get things established, until suddenly the fog fades away, revealing the town gates dead ahead - and a multitude of Orcish camps to both sides, who look just as surprised to see the caravan there as they are!

This will be the first combat encounter of the adventure - bands of more excitable warriors will separate from the camps, intent on looting the caravan. The players are going to have to fight off the Orcs and protect the caravan during their mad dash for safety - the gate guards are going to open the gates to let them pass once they get close enough. If things get TOO hairy I'll give the players some ranged support via crossbows from the gate ramparts, too. I'm aiming for a tense encounter, slowly opening gates on one side, hordes or advancing Orcs on the other, so by the time they reach safety their blood will be pumping.

Once they reach the town interior, I'm going to let them have a breather - there'll be a few places of interest in the town actual, but the biggest is going to be the temple of Moradin. With the town besieged, it's probably the safest place to be - the vast majority of the women and children in the town are holed up in there. This is where the party's going to meat Gregor the warpriest, in temporary command of the guard (basically the main quest giver, if you will). From Gregor and the other townsfolk, they can get a more clear picture of the situation:

*It's been roughly a week since the orcs arrived - Brand, the guard captain, ordered the gates shut against them. So far they haven't massed for a single big attack yet, but every now and then a group of warriors manages to fire itself up enough to try an attack on the gates. So far they've managed to hold, but each time there's a little more Orcs and a few less guards on the walls.

(Orcs in this setting are less 'dumb brutes' and more 'noble savages' and more diplomatically minded PCs might try to negotiate with the them - in fact, each grayskin tribe has its own little warcamp, and characters who play their cards right can get an audience with the shaman of one of the less hotheaded camps. Each camp is lead by a shaman, following his visions - they're on the trail of a fallen shaman gone mad, marked for death by the spirits, and the trail leads through Glimwall. It's possible for the players to convince some of the shamans to wait for a little longer, playing time for the town, though of course some of the tribes are less interested in waiting.)

*The town gets its water from a well fed by an underground stream - and a few days after the Orc warcamps arrived, the water went bad. It's tainted with a vicious disease of some sort - the afflicted are crippled with a rising fever. Those who aren't incapacitated by the fever go slowly blind - Gregor and the other clerics in town do their best to purify the water and curb the disease, but there's only so much they can do. They're running low on clean water - and just as importantly they're also running low on powdered silver, a primary material in the sacred oils and incenses they need for healing and purification rituals.

*Glimwall is basically built around a trading post for caravans and miner housing - but they haven't had contact with the mine in a while. Guards who volunteered to scout back the trail to the mine haven't returned, and now there's few enough guards to defend the town - they can't spare a whole squad to try for the mines, but accessing the stores of silver ore would let them hold for a little more.

*Gregor himself is an ex-mercenary warpriest, now retired to be the ranking cleric in Moradin's temple. (Why isn't this godlike GMPC (sarcasm!) taking care of the issue himself? He's retired, he's needed to direct the guard - and most importantly his wife is among the women and children in the temple, nine months pregnant with their first child. If it wasn't for her he'd hit the mines by himself if need be, but now he's torn between his duties to the town and his family.) He's going to do his best to persuade the party to go explore the mines and retrieve them silver, and besides actually joining the party he'll do everything in his power to help them out.

Getting up to the mine itself is going to be the rest of part 1 - it's not a long trip, but long enough for the party to be possibly ambushed by wild animals or the random Orc patrol. The main point, however, will be reaching..

quote:

Part the Second: Upper Mines

The mines, the players will find, are empty - there's signs of struggle, scattered equipment, splatters of blood, but of the miners themselves there's simply no sign. What they will find, however, is the occasional cave-dwelling creature - and traps. Traps in a mine, why the hell? Because there's a complication - namely, a tribe of kobolds. A little less than a week ago, a tribe of kobolds tunneled by accident into the upper mine - and finding the place abandoned, they set up shop. A tunnel collapse, however, shut them off from their original warren - and now they're trapped between angry orcs outside and what waits in the lower mines. To make things worse, the blinding disease is spreading among them, too. Shortly put, they're backed into a corner, trapped and desperate - they've fortified themselves up into the upper mine with all the nasty tricks they can come up with. The players can either negotiate with them (I'll drop a few hooks for this into the sections before they reach the main camp) or they can fight their way through them. It is, in fact, possible for them to negotiate a treaty between the kobolds and Glimwall - kobolds are an industrious species, afterall, and they'd be happy to run the mine by themselves.


quote:

Part the Three: Lower Mines, Where the Plot gets Back on Track

Part one had a main theme of Orcs for enemies. Part two was Traps and Kobolds. Part three? Zombies.

The lower mines have been taken over by none other but the insane shaman mentioned in part 1. Driven mad by visions of doom, he fell into dealing with spirits of disease, death and decay and was exiled from his tribe for it. Lead by his visions, he managed to sneak into the mines, overwhelming the miners with his magic and undead minions. Now, he has set himself up a plague altar in the depths of the mine, attended by rotting Orcs, miners and kobolds - it's the presence of this altar that has tainted the stream that feeds Glimwall's wells. The party's going to have to fight its way through his plague-ridden minions, into a final battle with the shaman himself - slaying him and destroying the altar will cleanse the stream, and once the town has access to pure water they'll be able to recover from the plague if given enough time. Meanwhile, bringing the orcs proof of the fallen shaman's death will satisfy most of the tribe shamans, sending them off.


At the end of the adventure the players will have, hopefully, netted themselves a handy contact (Gregor will be extemely thankful and will make for a convenient ally when it comes to getting certain rituals performed or equipment crafted), the thankfulness of the entire town, some good loot and their first taste of feeling like big drat heroes. Of course, in due time they'll be haunted by the mad shaman's last words - that the deaths he was bringing were a mercy compared to the future..

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord
Have you considered going with the Essentials classes to make it even easier for them?

Drake_263
Mar 31, 2010
Iiii have been so long out of the loop with DnD, I don't even know Essentials, to be perfectly honest!

Rexides
Jul 25, 2011

I am not entirely convinced that the Essentials classes are simpler than the old ones. Maybe they get more damage output with fewer tactical considerations, but I don't think that they make it easier to look at your character sheet and decide the best possible course of action*.

My advice is to make sure that each character has one at-will power that's basically basic attack++. Most classes have one of those, it's either a +2 to the attack roll or slightly more damage. Just strike out the name and call it "Hit a Thing", and tell them to use it when they don't know what to do each round.

*with the exception of defender aura which feels easier to manage for new people than the various marking mechanics, but it would be better to play monsters like in 3E (go for the fighter) until the players are more comfortable with their role mechanics.

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013

One of the problems I always had with Essentials characters (particularly Martials) is that they require characters to immediately grock Melee Basic, which is not as Basic as it appears. I have one friend that I tried to include as a guest in 2 different sessions of my 4e game. AD&D reigns supreme in his memory and while I wouldn't call him groggy he does have a certain willful ignorance about him with regards to newer editions. Anyway, he said he wanted to play something 'simple' on two occasions. The first time we made him a Monk and he loved the poo poo out of it. Power cards immediately transmitted what he was supposed to do. Play a card, do a thing. Our experience with the Slayer was radically different. "So I have to activate a stance and then... attack? Am I like a toaster? Do I have to be in bagel mode before I can attack?"

It requires fewer choices but it's still loaded with jargon.

Mendrian fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 14, 2014

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My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

UrbanLabyrinth posted:

Easy enough to imitate: rituals cost 2 healing surges to cast. Rituals 5 levels below you cost 1 the first time each day they're each cast, and 2 after that. Rituals 10 levels below are free the first time you cast each one each day, otherwise 1 surge.

You might want to allow characters to donate surges towards spell casting even if they're not the caster though. Also this doesn't replace the cost for item creation rituals, of course.
Been thinking about it a bit more and came up with more or less the same, item creation should of course be the item price, and other characters can help cast the ritual and pay (part of) the surge cost. I'd have them roll a skill check to aid if the ritual calls for one, mostly as a flavor/minor tension thing - 95% of the time it's not going to make any difference and the remaining 5% they get a slightly worse effect, big whoopin' deal. I was thinking 1 surge per ritual, rituals of a lower tier are free 1/day, but I think I like your setup better because the rituals become cheaper sooner.

Things like Raise Dead and Remove Disease/Affliction probably shouldn't have a surge cost either. The risk on those is plenty big enough.

As another flavour thing I'm planning to introduce specific ritual requirements. Nothing that keeps them from casting the ritual at any time, just minor stuff. For example, the Invoker naturally has Hand of Fate, and I'd require them to have a hand-shaped object ready for that - could be as simple as a chalk drawing, a glove or five sticks, but they have to set up something to call the divination spirit or whatever into. (Secretly I'm planning shenanigans of the sort that when they keep a special glove around only for the ritual, after X castings the spirit stays in the object and runs around being a nuisance.)

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