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Fair enough re: Essentials classes. I was thinking more in terms of higher level, since that's what I'm used to these days. And at high paragon, it's no contest. 
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Feb 14, 2014 18:36
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Rexides posted:Can we expand that to have a new track of non-combat feat slots on levels you don't get a normal feat were you get to pick a non-combat one? Things like rituals, skill training/focus feats, stuff like that? Sort of how the game already silos powers into attack and utility (although utility powers do have combat applications). Has anyone tried something like that? My groups give bonus noncombat feats (or limited to skill training) at either 5/9/15.. or 4/8/14.. Me experience is it can get a little nutty I'd you have a stealth-focused party and 4/5 party members have skill focus in it. That might have more to do with me always homebrewing monsters and not liking having to come up with Perception scores or playing the stealth mini-game.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:12
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P.d0t posted:My groups give bonus noncombat feats (or limited to skill training) at either 5/9/15.. or 4/8/14.. I've used "odd feats at odd levels" for years now and really think it makes a difference. I also allow corner-case stuff that's technically combat-oriented, like mounted combat feats, because the knight can't usually take his pony into the dungeon.
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Feb 14, 2014 20:22
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Lurdiak posted:Just going to point out that, while I agree with the math stuff, I absolutely hate the MM3 and onward's monster blocks and wish they'd kept the original layout. This might just come down to personal preference, but it really bugs me. Been re-reading MM3 and it reminded me that in addition to the obnoxious new monster blocks, they replaced the serviceable and neutral descriptions of the monsters and their lore with poo poo like this: quote:The adventurers pursued the ogre raiders for a week gently caress youuuuu.
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Feb 15, 2014 03:00
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Speaking as someone whose entire experience of monsters is LFR mods... what changed? The pre- and post-MM3 monsters look exactly the same in those.
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Feb 15, 2014 09:40
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For me the biggest change is that in MM3 powers are grouped by action (standard, move etc), which is a far better format than the one in MM1, so I don't know what people's problem is 
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Feb 15, 2014 11:21
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Rexides posted:For me the biggest change is that in MM3 powers are grouped by action (standard, move etc), which is a far better format than the one in MM1, so I don't know what people's problem is Yeah, this. MM1 stat blocks had things buried in odd places or not 100% clear. It's super easy to just kind of forget a triggered ability or what came to be known as auras because they're all jammed up with other information. Although, I agree the later editions suffer a little from not wanting to break kayfabe on the monsters. In fact, I would say that one of the prime reasons why 4e never became a Magic style success was that there is this weird disinclination to get down and dirty, and talk design decisions and mechanics when the designers aren't talking about characters. If there had been an actual discourse on designing monsters and combat encounters, like Magic has managed to grow around TCG design, maybe the mistakes would have been fixed quicker/never happened. What I would have given for a weekly column just taking a type of monster out of the Monster Manual and dissecting its design, rationale, and how to make encounters revolving around them.
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Feb 15, 2014 11:58
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Do you count saving throws given with powers for 'Failed Saving Throw' effects? E.g. can a Cleric actually make someone hit by a basilisk turn into stone faster?
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Feb 15, 2014 13:54
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I was never 100% happy with either the MM1 or MM3 stat blocks. My encounters got a lot better when I started writing out the stat blocks in my own shorthand because I could usually figure out what would be easy to forget and put it right at the top of the sheet, in all caps with stars around it.
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Feb 15, 2014 13:55
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Littlefinger posted:Do you count saving throws given with powers for 'Failed Saving Throw' effects? E.g. can a Cleric actually make someone hit by a basilisk turn into stone faster?
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Feb 15, 2014 14:17
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Ok, thanks for the help.
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Feb 15, 2014 14:22
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It occurs to me that I intend on using Orcs as opponents for a first-level party, but all the books I have at hand (MM1-3, Monster Vault) have orcs statted as lv3-6-is foes. Looks like I'm going to have to get creative and make up some weaker orcs.. and gently caress the MM1 'bloodied -> healing surge' ability, that's just more hit points, the free attack when killed sounds more interesting. I'll just explain it away that the lv1-2 orcs are hotheaded, young and eager warriors, while their bigger buddies just have had more time to learn on account of not pouncing random PCs :p
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Feb 15, 2014 21:39
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First of all, DDI has monsters from ALL books (which includes custom ones for adventures), and you could find lower level orcs there. Otherwise, you can pick the higher level orcs and lower their stats as you said. However, level 3 creatures are still valid enemies for level 1 characters, just use less of them to match the XP budget for the encounter you are creating.
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Feb 15, 2014 21:55
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Drake_263 posted:It occurs to me that I intend on using Orcs as opponents for a first-level party, but all the books I have at hand (MM1-3, Monster Vault) have orcs statted as lv3-6-is foes. Looks like I'm going to have to get creative and make up some weaker orcs.. and gently caress the MM1 'bloodied -> healing surge' ability, that's just more hit points, the free attack when killed sounds more interesting. I'll just explain it away that the lv1-2 orcs are hotheaded, young and eager warriors, while their bigger buddies just have had more time to learn on account of not pouncing random PCs :p It's 4th edition, so downlevelling anything is pretty simple, just go by the 3E monster math on a business card in the OP to see the math, it's really easy. Since they are still generally Heroic tier enemies without any crazy abilities they will be balanced just fine on that end as well.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:09
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Thank you both - I don't have access to DDI so I'll do it by hand. I'll just swap the bloodied-healing-surge power for the standard-action-when-killed one and lower their stats accordingly. I'm not averse to fudging things up a little so if they turn out to be too powerful for the party I'll just have a couple guards at the gates start taking potshots at the orcs. Or add in more orcs if they turn out too easy.
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Feb 15, 2014 22:31
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By the way, this is either out of date, or misleading. The defenses section is correct, but the "24"s that are mentioned in the HP refer to level 1 monsters, not level 0 (like the starting defenses). It shouldn't matter for higher levels, but one extra swing to take down a level 1 monster could make a big difference in an encounter with 5 of them.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:29
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I did a quick sample from the Monster Vault, and I think you're trippin' out.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:37
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I used the monster builder tool from DDI.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:42
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If you need it Kassoon's encounter builder is a great sanity check to make sure the encounter is appropriate for the party's size / level.
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Feb 15, 2014 23:58
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Rexides posted:
So hang on, let me get this straight. To build MM3 style monsters that aren't long buring unfun slogs, I'll want to make sure: 1: Their basic stats roughly comform to the list on the top, increasing by 1 per each level of the monster; 2: For monsters cribbed from MM1/2, I'll -increase the average damage done by a monster swing by ~25-50% -increase damage done by brute-type monsters by another 25% -reduce the damage done my monsters with Aoe effects by ~25% -halve the damage inflicted by minions -double the hit points on elites, quadruple them on solos 3: For monsters I'm creating from scratch, use the HP and AC bonus by role table? For the record, I've mainly DMed 3.5 before so it feels kind of weird to not build huge 3.whatever-type statblocks. Liberating, but weird.
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Feb 16, 2014 00:18
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Drake_263 posted:So hang on, let me get this straight. To build MM3 style monsters that aren't long buring unfun slogs, I'll want to make sure: Those numbers are the new numbers, not what you apply to MM1/2 creatures. You'll want to entirely ignore MM1/2 monsters stats and swap for the appropriate numbers on the cards. MM1/2 solos have way too much HP already, quadrupling them would be absolutely mind-numbing.
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Feb 16, 2014 00:27
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No, this is not conversion instructions. The +X% damage increases refer to the "average damage" on the first section. Encounter refers to specific attacks that a monster can use only once per encounter, and should be more powerful (and I guess you get what the others refer to now). Elites and solos double and quadruple the HP values you get from the last section. There are more things you need to do in order to create an actually interesting monster (and elites and solos have a few more considerations), but the results you get provide a good starting point to fidget with for a monster at that level.
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Feb 16, 2014 00:30
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Drake_263 posted:2: For monsters cribbed from MM1/2, I'll Your monsters should do somewhere around 2d6+level or 2d8+level damage for normal monsters. Brutes, up it by 25%. AoE effects, drop it by 25%. Change all attack rolls to Level +5 vs. AC, or Level +3 vs. AC vs. F/R/W. EDIT And I got to be a player in a 4e game tonight.  Really weird setup, but the adventure seems to be The Slaying Stone, which fortunately I've never read, so...
dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 02:09
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Has anyone used any of the Encounters in-store material at their table? I'm thinking of starting up a new campaign and I'm interested in the Dark Legacy of Evard. Any trip reports to share?
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Feb 16, 2014 02:20
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Drake_263 posted:So hang on, let me get this straight. To build MM3 style monsters that aren't long buring unfun slogs, I'll want to make sure: *Increase the average damage done by a monster swing by half their level *Give Brutes +2 to hit *Make sure elites do as much damage as two ordinary monsters - but cut their defences by two IIRC *Ignore pre-MM3/MV solos entirely. They are mostly unsalvageable. Compare this red dragon to the version in the Monster Manual. quote:3: For monsters I'm creating from scratch, use the HP and AC bonus by role table? For monsters you are creating from scratch, use the MM3 on a business card for their baseline stats, then move them around a little. That card is for creating, not for converting. quote:For the record, I've mainly DMed 3.5 before so it feels kind of weird to not build huge 3.whatever-type statblocks. Liberating, but weird. Yup! Enjoy it 
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Feb 16, 2014 02:55
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On the discussion a few pages ago about rolling out in front of my players. I tried it for the first time tonight and they liked it. It was also during one of the first battles that they were on the ropes a bit and I think it actually made battle a bit quicker, once they figured out who was hitting them and what I needed to roll.
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Feb 16, 2014 04:31
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dwarf74 posted:Your monsters should do somewhere around 2d6+level or 2d8+level damage for normal monsters. Brutes, up it by 25%. AoE effects, drop it by 25%. The way I run it is something like this: Attack: level + 1d8 + 1d20 Damage: level + 1d6 + 1d10 (add 1d6+1d10 and subtract 10, per tier) Brutes/encounter powers: add the d8 roll * tier to the damage.
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Feb 16, 2014 06:29
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Elmo Oxygen posted:Has anyone used any of the Encounters in-store material at their table? I'm thinking of starting up a new campaign and I'm interested in the Dark Legacy of Evard. Any trip reports to share? But from what I remember of Season 5: Dark Legacy of Evard, it was pretty good but also kind of average for the quality of the program. I think I enjoyed Lost Crown of Neverwinter and Beyond the Crystal Cave more as a DM, but also realize that people may not have access to those—although wasn't the Crystal Cave printed in one of the magazines a while back? I think Dark Legacy is serviceable if you can get your players to buy into the whole "dark heroes" concept a little bit, but over-reliance on Heroes of Shadow content comes with its own cost. I assume if you're considering using Encounters adventures that you're already aware of their railroady nature, so just be cognizant of that. Dungeon's Master has nice recaps of all the different seasons, including Evard's, you just need to scroll down... quite a ways. And if this is for a physical game—rather than a digital one—I have some DM resources that might be of use to you. Auralsaurus Flex fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 07:19
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Alrighty, that makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that out - lucky I have at least a few weeks to get things prepared before the first actual game session!
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Feb 16, 2014 10:38
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Thanks Auralsaurus Flex!
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Feb 16, 2014 18:54
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I was tinkering around with the Character Builder at my buddy's place yesterday, and I couldn't figure out how to change my paladin's Lay on Hands to Ardent Vow. Am I just a moron?
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Feb 16, 2014 23:20
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It's been a while since I've used the LCB, but I think for that you either click on Lay on Hands in the little "selected powers" box at the bottom of the window and then that brings up the appropriate screen in the upper portion or there's a section somewhere on the at-will selection portion of the powers tab where Lay on Hands appears as though it's a power that's already been chosen and there's a little drop down arrow to the right of that bar or something. If neither of those work, I'd also check the Class Features section and make sure it's not located there. For the OCB, I think you just click on the bar for Lay on Hands and then the selection pop-up appears and you can change it from there. Bear in mind that I don't really have access to either of the builders presently, so I'm going off of memory here. In any case (at least for the LCB, the OCB might not actually do this), it's not super intuitive since it's presented as a selection already made for you rather than a choice you make yourself. Auralsaurus Flex fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 23:39
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One of my players for a campaign I'm just starting expressed interest in bringing some lycanthropy traits into his character. I want to encourage it since he's building up a lot of backstory for it, but I don't want him to have more abilities right out of the gate than other players. Does anyone have any resources/homebrew stuff/advice for handling something like this? I was thinking of either reskinning a Shifter as a lycanthrope since it's almost the same thing, and letting his racial ability cover it, but it doesn't seem like quite enough to cover the effects of lycanthropy. I'll probably be categorizing this as a racial feature for him anyway, so if we come up with something homebrew, it'd be replacing whatever other racial abilities he would've had.
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Feb 16, 2014 23:49
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SeraphSlaughter posted:One of my players for a campaign I'm just starting expressed interest in bringing some lycanthropy traits into his character. I want to encourage it since he's building up a lot of backstory for it, but I don't want him to have more abilities right out of the gate than other players. Does anyone have any resources/homebrew stuff/advice for handling something like this? I was thinking of either reskinning a Shifter as a lycanthrope since it's almost the same thing, and letting his racial ability cover it, but it doesn't seem like quite enough to cover the effects of lycanthropy. I'll probably be categorizing this as a racial feature for him anyway, so if we come up with something homebrew, it'd be replacing whatever other racial abilities he would've had. Are you using Themes at all? There's actually a Werewolf/Lycanthrope Theme that would work really well. Alternatively tell him to play a Druid. Beast form Druids pretty accurately replicate being a Werewolf. I've used Druids to represent both Werewolves and Vampires in my Castlevania game and they both worked really well.
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Feb 16, 2014 23:54
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SeraphSlaughter posted:One of my players for a campaign I'm just starting expressed interest in bringing some lycanthropy traits into his character. I want to encourage it since he's building up a lot of backstory for it, but I don't want him to have more abilities right out of the gate than other players. Does anyone have any resources/homebrew stuff/advice for handling something like this? I was thinking of either reskinning a Shifter as a lycanthrope since it's almost the same thing, and letting his racial ability cover it, but it doesn't seem like quite enough to cover the effects of lycanthropy. I'll probably be categorizing this as a racial feature for him anyway, so if we come up with something homebrew, it'd be replacing whatever other racial abilities he would've had. Would a shifter druid or maybe a barbarian with some refluffing work? GimpInBlack fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 23:55
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SeraphSlaughter posted:I want to encourage it since he's building up a lot of backstory for it, but I don't want him to have more abilities right out of the gate than other players.
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Feb 17, 2014 00:07
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Dude really wants to be a ranger lycanthrope, but all of this is really helpful! I might let him trade a ranger ability or two for a druid one? or maybe ask him if he's fine with multiclassing for that. I like his character idea, and he seems willing to work within any boundaries I set as long as he gets to be his rad wilderness-tracker-werewolf guy (which does fit into my setting pretty well). Also the party already has a druid...two may be a bit much. e: seems like making him take the druid multiclass feat as his first feat might be the best way to do it if he REALLY wants to be a ranger. Since the full druid in the party is his IRL friend, I suppose the both of them could end up being Druid and His Sort Of Werewolf Buddy. I really also wouldn't mind the Druid Bros. in my party, since it's a 6 person thing and that leaves enough room for something silly like that. Gravybong fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 00:47
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There's a theme called Darkwalker Kin that gives the character an at-will, once per round wolf transformation, and the bite is like, 1d8, +3 proficiency bonus, and gets the enhancement of your primary hand weapon. When you transform you can shift as well. I think the theme is Human only? edit: and by once per round, I mean it lasts until you leave the form, but you can only activate the power once per round. A Single Sphink fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Feb 17, 2014 |
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Feb 17, 2014 01:41
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TheWyrmDude posted:There's a theme called Darkwalker Kin that gives the character an at-will, once per round wolf transformation, and the bite is like, 1d8, +3 proficiency bonus, and gets the enhancement of your primary hand weapon. When you transform you can shift as well. What's that from? It doesn't show up in compendium.
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Feb 17, 2014 03:54
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Dragon 405.
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Feb 17, 2014 04:01
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