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Does anyone have a link to a good essay about "what killed 4e" that isn't just gravedancing or stupid random poo poo? I wasn't able to find one using Google, and I feel this might be a topic worth writing about. One thing that I'm concerned about is that the 3.5 people are quite literally erasing reality and saying that the system failed because it was rejected en masse, when it seems to me that it died mostly from bad bloat, bad adventures, a few fundamental math problems that were easily fixed, and of course the most important thing - Mearls deciding to kill it dead because it wasn't "real D&D".
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Mar 25, 2015 22:27
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Look I'm not edition warring. I'm just saying that in my experience D&D 4e started having trouble when Mearls took over and started gutting the line and also multi-tapping and zone abuse started to become a thing. Some of these arguments just aren't working for me. They stopped releasing books WELL before before people had "got their fill" and willing to give up on the system, historically speaking anyway. If 3/3.5 showed anything it was that people were willing to Buy A Lot Of poo poo for Dungeons and Dragons and in this case the books fell off a cliff after Essentials. Also in hindsight trashing the Forgotten Realms was a huge misstep as well and they shouldn't have done that. It was pointless and they did nothing but piss off really invested people.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:54
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That's a good post, and tracks with my experience. But it's just a post in a thread about D&D Next. Hmmm I think I might write an essay on this. Throwing Real History in the Memory Hole doesn't sit well with me. Poison Mushroom posted:(To make it relevant to this thread, I mentioned 4e in passing, and basically the entire table responded with kneejerk hostility.) Yeah, this sounds like the kinds of people that I know that don't like 4e as well. Big surprise.
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Mar 25, 2015 23:05
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neonchameleon posted:Not really. But in a nutshell: Huh, I actually thought it was really good at launch. But ok. Something else to think about. I had forgotten about how terrible Keep on the Shadowfell was. And that Mike Mearls had written it. Good stuff. I'm basically getting four things here in order of importance: Mearls never really seemd to "get" 4e, produced bad content, survived the purges and layoffs only to de facto kill the line with Essentials. In fact was basically the poison splinter that killed the brand Published adventures were just awful and played to the weaknesses of the system, not the strength. In fact 4e was so tight that if you slopped it, it was immediately and catastrophically noticeable - also hurt add on classes and other stuff Pathfinder jumped in there and did a fantastic job of marketing themselves as the Real D&D for the Discriminating Gamer 4e itself got bogged down at high levels and with too much bloat and never got its head around what to do outside of combat Agreed, disagreed? Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 16:47
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Madmarker posted:I disagree really with only the last statement. 4e was a game that seemed to live by the mantra "Roll play in combat, Role play out of Combat" The skills were intentionally vague so that you would be good at a wide class of things, and your method and description of those actions was important. I don't need to spend skill points in cape flourishing to flourish my cape in a dashing manner, thats taken into the diplomacy roll. Honestly, 3.5 players, and by extension pathfinder players, seem to require the system to tell them what they were able to do outside of fights. Lots of points placed in niche skills so you can weave a basket or forge a sword is ridiculous, role play whatever that is, and how its giving you the bonus, and BOOM, the dm can give you that bonus as a feat or item or boon or whatever. I'm sorry, let me clarify: skill challenges sucked, basically didn't work very well, and the published adventures and dragon magazine stuff were very railroady pieces of skill challenge into the next combat into the next combat into the next skill challenge affairs. So reading this it was pretty obvious that the designers were mostly focused on fighting. BTW I talked with a friend of mine about 4e, a big supporter when we ran it in 2009 - 2010 and was surprised to find out that he really had fallen out of favor with it. He loved it when we played (he said) but now he's saying that he was kinda bored by all the fighting (too much fighting that took too long) and wouldn't play again. Just an interesting tidbit. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 17:06
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Can anyone give me specific references on the D&D Insider in 2013 still making a lot of money thing, and the ICv2 stuff that ProfessorCirno mentioned? I mean, if you have direct links handy. Google is returning a lot of stuff.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:59
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Leveled up Koboolds = Yoked-up meathead kobolds. Hulking critters with comically high voices and water bottles on their leather lifting belts. These dogmen have learned ONE WEIRD TRICK for trapping and killing intruders to their underground lair. ADVENTURERS HATE THEM.
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Mar 28, 2015 00:12
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It looks like my gaming group wants to play Revenge of the Giants. I will be a player and I want to play a Battlemind. Is this a good idea?
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Sep 23, 2015 16:27
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Battlemind, like most psionic classes, entirely revolves around spamming certain at-wills, most of which he only gets later in life. Otherwise you get into weird stuff like "the Battlemind is bad at protecting other players, but really good at protecting himself!" BM can be the spongiest class in the game without the use of healing. Well I think I would start the character at 12th level because that's what the adventure is designed for. So if they aren't good by 12th level or so I'll pick something else. I really like the idea of being a mobile rear end-kicker. On another note, I didn't realize the adventure was partly written by Mike Mearls. 
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Sep 23, 2015 21:54
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I don't want to break the game over my knee, btw. Something solid would be fine.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:33
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