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Hey all, I'm going to be running a beefy 4th edition campaign and haven't played it since it was the current edition, so I wanted to ask for helpt on a few questions: What are any major mechanical issues that I might want to home rule? For example, Sly Flourish thought critical hit builds were too good? Is there any major power creep I should be aware of in the major splat books? What are some of the really wild "game breaking" non combat powers (rituals?) That show up at high level, and what are some in-world counters that I might bake into the setting. I want to run a "Dark Souls" style setting and having players fly, teleport, or enter the astral plane is all something I want to, not ban but to account for. Can anyone break down the "tiers" of levels into more details? I want to make an Elden Ring sized game world that goes from level 1 to level 20 (30?) and let the players loose to explore as they choose, so I'm wondering if the starting zone should be be like 1-3, or maybe 1-2, etc?
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Jan 24, 2023 15:44
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:27 |
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Right, I was specifically going to tie short rests and long rests to "small sites of grace" and "big sites of grace" (working titles), and the 4th edition mechanic of healing dice (wasn't that a thing??) was going to explicitly exist as some item that diminishes, like maybe a flask, or maybe a prayer bead where the beads dim out one by one. The whole framing device of "you're in a dark souls" lets me get a lot more explicit with the gamey aspect. That's one reason I'm going with fourth, it gives you a very granular hack and slash. I saw what the OP said about various feats and I was going to make them something explicitly obtainable within the game world, yeah. Edit: Oh, yeah, when I ran a 4th game from 1 to 20 back in the day, I just said you get a rest every 5 fights IIRC. This time I intend to sort of set the sites of grace out so that there's roughly 3-5 fights between them.
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Jan 24, 2023 18:26
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Sure, yeah. This is a more "gamey" setting in that there will be very few NPCs and no real society, economy, etc; but that doesn't mean I need to emulate absolutely everything in a souls borne and you're completely right that HP is an abstraction, good point.
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Jan 25, 2023 04:06
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I ran a campaign like this before and I find you still need the pacing and variety of talking and diplomacy and general down time, it's more that that there isn't a general population of unnamed people forming a social backdrop. Players may still want to go talk to the hermit, or spend time with the young mage studying the ruins, or negotiate with the rival adventuring band that aren't quite enemies, but every one they meet has a name, stats and levels, and a goal, there's not that general milieu of townsfolk.
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Jan 25, 2023 04:35
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I'm already making a radical gameplay change when I make a static 1-20 game world and then another 21-30 staged past some narrative barrier and let the players fight whatever they want and whatever they can (or can't!) survive. I do like the idea of taking these "specialization" feats and just gating them behind some battles - there could be some themed enemies in each major tier zone, maybe arena champions, maybe an organization of famed duelists, who knows. Beat them, and you unlock the feat.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:24
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So, I like how well 4e handles it's set piece battles, but I also thinking tossing the odd monster lurking in the shadows is an important tool for tension and pacing, and 4e isn't really built for these kinds of low intensity combats - they'd be trivialized by encounter powers. So, I talked to my players and got some initial buy in on the idea of restricting the party to at will powers if it's just one or two minor monsters. What I wanted some help or advice for though, is what's an appropriate difficulty for one of these micro fights. Let's say I want them to be over after just a turn or two of at-will fights and don't really want them to hurt the party more than maybe one healing surge. My initial thought was, for a party of five, one, maybe two enemies of equal level. Should I go even easier and just use minions?
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Feb 6, 2023 04:25
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I find I hot patch every RPG at the final stage by just adjusting combat encounters. Not lying about dice so much as just getting a much clearer idea of what the party, and the monsters, can do over time. Actually, one of the big draws for a merciless old school simulationist sand box game for me is that I could finally stop worrying if the stats for this or that monster are bad. I can just throw up my hands and say "it is what it is!" I've never actually run one, I iust day dream about it.
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Feb 15, 2023 17:59
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I'd rather have the first, personally but I also play every video game on "iron man" almost any time they let me. I like being forced to accept bad results and take my narrative, my personal story, in unexpected ways.
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Feb 16, 2023 20:02
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Gort posted:These days I just have a conversation with my players before a game and ask, "Do we want it to be possible for player characters to die in this campaign?" Cowards  But seriously, that sort of session zero communication is key. I don't kill characters in most of my games for exactly the same reason.
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Feb 16, 2023 23:01
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Having mechanical death not be narrative death is, hypocritically, something I use a lot. I once TPK'd a split group and had those characters get taken hostage. Partly character death is , in part , a nostalgia for a very different type of game - when I was a teen in the 90s my local gaming store had pick up 2nd edition D&D games and there was a lot of highly lethal, drop in and drop out play. You didn't mind character death as much partly because the game was much bigger even than your party, let alone that character.
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Feb 17, 2023 02:39
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I'd appreciate any other suggestions for cool terrain, my 4e dungeon crawl soulslike starts next month. Also, I'm toying with declaring one entire dungeon level as "one encounter", putting TWO encounters worth of monsters in it, but never more than half an encounter's worth in any one area? Sound roughly ok?
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Feb 20, 2023 16:30
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Right I meant not even short rests. So you go into floor one, that whole floor is one encounter. So you'll have to decide when and where to use your encounter powers. Too boring? Too much of "guess I'll just spam my two at wills for the these four instances of one or two monsters?" I really, really want more varied Dungeon design instead of just set pieces. I was going to put set pieces behind fog walls that trigger a short rest.
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Feb 20, 2023 16:49
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Ok, so, looking at the dungeon I just made, it actually just has three distinct fights in it, two smaller and one "boss battle". So. I can probably just use the rules as is. Also: I'm going to cross post this in the GM thread, but I'd appreciate suggestions for this environmental hazard that's going to be a major campaign element: --- Fear the Dark In this land, the wise fear what waits beyond torchlight. In the dark – especially in unlit depths – twisted horrors without form or name spawn and breed. None enter the cold earth without good cause, and none linger longer than necessary, for it is as though the earth rots from within. --- ("Rotting Dark" can happen anywhere the scouring sun doesn't reach in this campaign world. These dark areas are rotten, liquefied, and spawn malformed horrors.) So far in the first dungeon I've got: A hallway that has collapsed down into a large cess pitt and wading through it deals damage. A cliff of bare earth and climbing up invites grasping hands to seize you. A large sink hole spanning a room with ranged enemies harassing you from the other side; when you jump down, horrors spawn in the sink hole and slow you down/engage you in melee. A room that's suffocatingly dark, there's a secret entrance on both sides but you'd have to find it supernatural darkness while rolling for suffocating of some sort. I'd welcome any other trap suggestions for "rotting dark", anything nasty, corrupting, anything that's a mix of either decay or mutation (both people and the architecture itself).
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Feb 20, 2023 17:35
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Players have started to turn in their character sheets. I'm using inherent bonuses so I already had one person refund pole arm expertise, and someone else changed the feat that gives more defenses, but what's the deal with implement expertise? My warlock is starting with an "accurate wand", are these still in use with inherent bonuses? Does the accurate bonus stack with the enchantment bonus? Does he need a feat for these?
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Feb 22, 2023 20:09
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Oh whoops I think I misunderstood, so I'd told everyone they could use these bonus in place of any magic item they may or may not have, enchantment bonuses not stacking: But that's distinct from, what, letting everyone have one free expertise? Letting people have ALL free expertises? Like, a player had pole arm expertise but dropped it when I mentioned this rule. Should he put it back?
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Feb 22, 2023 20:45
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Ok, gotcha, I'll have everyone pick out one free "expertise" feat, such as pole arm expertise. Thank you for the write up, I haven't actually cracked open a rulebook yet so details of game balance are taking a back seat to "uh what NPCs are even in this game? Where does the first adventure take place??", But it's almost time to play so characters are getting made. Edit: ok wait, so there are various named expertise feats and then there is "weapon expertise" as a general feat. The named feats have various extra abilities, like pole arm provides charge defense. So, would my example polearm player being getting "weapon expertise" for free, and then optionally buying polearm expertise? If so, do the to-hit bonuses stack? Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 22, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 21:20
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Thanks all, I feel I finally understand the issue, and the possible solutions. I went with this option: Everyone automatically gets a +1 to hit at level 1, another+1 at level 11, and a third+1 at level 21. Additionally, none of the "expertise" feats will give a bonus to hit, so ignore that part of the feats. So, you could take, for example, polearm expertise because you like the extra charge defense, or wand expertise because you like the rule about cover. If you buy a weapon expertise feat because you like those additional rules, it costs a feat. No one gets a weapon expertise feat for free, instead they get an automatic bonus to hit at levels 1, 11, and 21, and feats don't give bonuses to hit, but can still be bought for their other rules if desired.
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Feb 23, 2023 04:21
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SynthesisAlpha posted:The only issue with that is that without that +1 the expertise feats are mostly not worth a feat slot. Really they should just be default bonuses for weapon groups but the ship had already sailed by the time the weapon group expertise feats came out. So now I'm looping back around to "apply inherent tier bonus to hit, expertise feats don't give bonus to hit but can be chosen for utility" but then also saying "look just pick one for free". My only remaining question would be, is there one for every kind of weapon? Or is this a situation where, like, the generic long sword user is left out because all the feats are for like pikes and whips and staves and not for swords and maces and axes?
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Feb 23, 2023 15:53
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:27 |
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Does anyone have any links to interesting potions or scrolls I could start putting in my 4e game? The examples in the PHB are weak, I want something more interesting. I don't care if it's "too good", I'll just make fights harder. I want some interesting consumables to spice up my treasure parcels. Edit - my initial thought is to give the players a "scroll of X" and have it be a one time use of trading out one of their normal encounter powers for one from another class? That way they're not gaining an extra power, but they could pull out something specific at a useful time? Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 30, 2023 |
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Apr 30, 2023 04:06
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