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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

dwarf74 posted:

Not an empty quote.

Controllers are the worst thing about 4e, and a party with three of them sounds hideous.

I mean technically there's only one controller. It's just that the party has largely consisted of a Druid, Sorcerer, Rouge, and Warlord. Sorcerer takes a smattering of control powers, Rogue rattles and stuns things, oh and the Warlord is using Polearm Momentum to keep everything pinned down. So it's a control heavy party, but only one Controller.

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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Boba Pearl posted:

Let me tell you about the time my controller heavy party stopped a boss from playing the game by slowing, proning, dazing, and then just pushing him back 3 squares so that he could never get in range of the objective.

You'll have to give a bit more details for me to pick out which fight this was Boba.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Transient People posted:

You're not trading an action for an action though -- you're trading two actions for an action, because you're popping your ally's Reaction to let them Strike. Which...seems weak, just mathematically speaking. Given that an average monster has like 280 HP at level 15, for example, I just don't see how +1 to attack rolls or +Modifier to damage helps a lot. Absolute best case scenario, that let you do 10% more of a monster's HP if your buddy strikes and hits 3 times in a round. By contrast, a 4e warlord at a comparable level (so, level 20-23) could call down a Hail of Steel and literally just instantly kill a standard monster, or drat near close enough, by generating between two to four attacks off-turn depending on the party's composition, plus their own base hit. If I'm skeptical, it's because I wrote the book on playing the Warlord in 4e. I know what it could do out the box and what it could manage with a little bit of effort. It's hard to see the Marshal being anywhere near as destructive as that.

This is PF2 in a nutshell, it works very hard to present options that look cool then work to make sure they're not too cool

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

That's why you build the encounter around the aura. So it's the central gimmick everybody needs to work around and thus, everybody remembers.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Verisimilidude posted:

Giving all weapons +3 proficiency bonus would also necessitate modifying damage rolls to be equal as well, making all weapons essentially the same within a particular group. Which could totally work.

Weapon dice literally do not matter past like, level 4. The type of weapon, any properties is may have, and the feats you take for the weapon are far more impactful.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Except that the point of my houserule is to make spending a feat for a weapon you think is cool isn't worth less than the guy just using a weapon everybody can use.

Like, you misread it. It's any superior weapon that's +2 gets bumped to +3. If you're using a one handed heavy blade it's not actually worth the feat to go from Longsword to Bastard Sword. It's a difference of 1 average damage.

And this is in general the relationship with most Suoerior counterparts military weapons. Their damage dice are one step higher and thus, just do an average of one more damage. This is not woth spending a feat on by itself unless you get something more out of it.

For instance, the Fullblade is not worth getting despite being 1d12. Because it only does 1 more average damage than the Greatsword. But if you can take Githzerai Blade Master it does became worth it becaue now in Heroic their you're getting +3 to average damage when using a fullblade.

The point of the houserule is to make taking a feat to get a superior weapon worth taking a feat for if the non superior weapons are just +2.

(Granted, there is one edgecase here, the Gouge who's properties make it worth taking even when it's just a +2, but lol whatever)

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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Iron Heart posted:

Not even with the catastrophic amounts of [W] that warriors throw around later in the game, where the average is tended toward more and the increase is to each of those dice?



Yes. Especially at higher levels.

All the static bonuses you get for damage count far, far more than the weapon dice.

The best weapon in 4e is the dagger. Because it has a lot of good fear support to up damage, is +3, and is very versatile due to also being a throwing weapon and implement.

The best powers in 4e are ones that can trigger a damage roll more than once. Because they can add all those jucy static mods again

Dr Pepper fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jan 27, 2023

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