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palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib
holy crap is that gonna ramp up my use of masterplan. Thanks.

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palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib
A pile of minions backed up by a leader-class monster, maybe a Skirmisher or Artillery type, sounds about right -- Controllers get to clear out/disable masses of minions, strikers get to go shankadelic on the leaders. I'd tune down the average damage a notch to account for the lack of Leaders, maybe have some environmental healing effects if your game's fiction supports it.

The answer to a table problem is almost never 'murder someone's PC'. In this case, encounter composition is pretty drat tunable in 4E, so tune. Alternately, talk to people and see if you can talk someone into switching, or sweeten the pot by saying 'if someone wants to multiclass Leader, I won't even charge you a feat slot', then you've got at least 1 daily heal.

Speaking of multiclassing, does anyone else think multiclassing is insanely feat-intensive, given how high Heroic feat taxes are already? I've considered making all the power-swap feats free -- you only pay a feat slot for the initial multi, then you get a slotless feat at 4,6, and 8, and you can take the swaps of encounter attack/utility/daily attack in any order you like (because gently caress waiting till level 10 to swap a daily). Does that break anything, do you think? Even with this houserule in, nobody in my Eberron game is going for multiclassing.

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib
4E Hybrids open up some pretty interesting customization design space, but it's also considered pretty much the only easy way to accidentally make a really subpar character. If you're reasonably careful and have a halfway decent grasp of what works in 4E and what doesn't you can do well with hybrids, but I wouldn't make it my first character if you're newer to the system.

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib
I'd have to play with anydice to be sure of the math, but it feels intuitively like 'a six and a five or better' would serve. Further expansions of the crit range might be 'a six and a four or better' or 'two fives or better' -- I'm not certain of the odds for each off the top of my head.

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib

RPZip posted:

Let players only use one daily power per fight. I'd separate this into daily attack powers and daily utility powers and let them use up to one of each per fight, but not more.

It's similar in conception to the limits on daily item uses, or how you can only use one ap per fight barring special utilities.

What about adopting the 13A recharge mechanic? Make dailies encounter powers that don't necessarily come back after a short rest, like regular encounter powers. Instead, you roll for each expended 'daily' and get it back on (some number, salt to taste). That seems to me like it'd modulate the nova issue, because regaining the power isn't certain after the fight (and you might need it later).

I'd add bonuses to the roll for dailies that are below your level, so your weaker dailies are easier to recharge than then one you got at your most recent levelup, but that fillip may be unnecessary chrome.

edit: SJ beats me due to leaving this tab open forever :(

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib

Gort posted:

This sounds like it would just lead to people nova-ing their dailies in the first encounter and then nova-ing any that recharge in the next fight. You wouldn't save your dailies because the more dailies you use, the more total dailies you're going to get to expend.

Hm, maybe? For me, it'd make me cagier to use a daily unless it was one of the low-level ones that has a bonus to the recharge roll, because what if the next fight is one where I really need the boost and it hasn't recharged yet? That uncertainty would lead me to always ask 'do I really need this daily right now' instead of nova-ing willy nilly. If all the fights are of uniform difficulty, I agree with your assessment; but fights have a range of difficulty, and you don't know what's around the corner.

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

"Alpha striking" and "nova" is essentially what 4E combat is about. Many dailies are encounter-long, meaning that you want to pop them immediately. Others are situational dailies that rely on certain factors falling into place. The third class are just dailies that deal extra dice of damage.

Escalation dice, one daily/encounter and what have you are an interesting cool idea, but in 4E they actually limit your tactics and decidedly favor certain classes and builds. Some builds don't rely on dailies at all.

How do you figure?

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib

OneThousandMonkeys posted:

What are you asking me to elaborate on?

The entire position, really, but start with

quote:

in 4E they actually limit your tactics and decidedly favor certain classes and builds.

since that's the normative claim.

edit: specifically addressing the recharge mechanic concept, since you've already spoken about the escalation-die, one-daily-per-fight, and daily-as-encounter schemes.

palecur fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jun 29, 2014

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib

Gort posted:

Thing is, though, if players have novaed all their surges and power away in the first fight or two, it's logical that they'd want to rest and get them back. At that point you can either:

1) Make up a reason they can't stop, have them take on the next encounter without surges and dailies and probably die

2) Let them rest and continue novaing in the later encounters


Is

3) Make up a reason they can't stop, have them take on the next encounter, which is tuned to be appropriately challenging for a party low on surges and dailies

off the table for some reason I'm not getting? 4E encounter and monster design is remarkably tunable.

palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib
The warlock and the wizard digging fortifications by using Eldritch Blast to loosen the earth and Thunderwave to move the dirt out of the trench.

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palecur
Nov 3, 2002

not too simple and not too kind
Fallen Rib
bonus plot: since the Eldeen Reaches are literally just a rebel separatist province of Aundair, it's crawling with nasty terrorist druids, basically al-Qaeda Forest Annex. Bringing the place back to Aundair's rightful dominion is a solid Heroic plotline.

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