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Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
how much free time do you guys find you get over a day? by which i mean time to just look at websites, blogs, maybe even videos or personal projects. also i guess overtime would be negative here.

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Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Disclaimer: I'm not working at the moment but this applied when I was, and I'm keeping it up in the meantime:

The workday is mostly for work, but it's not horrible to spend a couple of minutes here and there keeping up on relevant technical blog posts. Investing time in your craft outside of work is kind of necessary to get an edge. I'm developing my career in something I love, so ~20 hours per week outside of work is not a big deal, but could be to someone who doesn't enjoy it as much (caveat: for me, that 20 hours is soft/flexible; I frequently interrupt it to do stuff with friends, play games, etc.). But time in this case is more something you make than something you get/find.

Unless you mean how much time I spend on HN, SA, and Reddit over the course of a day. Too much. :P

yeah, all those sites count as free time. i get a feeling just about everyone does this, but i'm wondering just how much they do it as a non-junior.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Vulture Culture posted:

Due to recent gentrification, Manhattan's pretty close to SF levels of ridiculous until you get way up north of Washington Heights. A 1Br/1Ba in a previously reasonable area like Nolita is going for close to $3,000/mo. nowadays. You can expect to pay upwards of $2,500 even in Harlem. It's not $3,000+/mo. for a studio in San Mateo, but it's about on par with Redwood City or Milpitas.

Nolita is much more than "reasonable," it has a bunch of great restaurants and stores and is close to a bunch of subway lines. "Reasonable" is like deep LES or UES. I think people exaggerate how expensive NY is because they like to throw money away, I'm only paying $2100 for my 1br in greenwich village.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
As good as Java 8 is, it's still very verbose to write functional code, and certain basic functional programming constructs (such as destructuring and pattern matching) are missing. I work at a JVM shop and still prefer to write Java, but I can't deny writing Scala is more fun.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
I've never worked with separate testing and quality teams but in every company I've been at (which admittedly is only a handful), QA has been a bottleneck. I was very hesitant about continuous deployment but with a decent base of tests (unit/component/integration/end to end) it actually works very well.

Like the above poster said, playbooks and knowing what to do when poo poo hits the fan helps, but that's something you should figure out anyway. A devops culture (as in, devs own operations for their lovely code) doesn't hurt either.

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Oct 10, 2017

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

pigdog posted:

Are you your own user, customer, product owner, architect, the sole developer, and boss?

Because if you're not Notch who's everything of the above, remote software development doesn't work. Programming is a small part of software development process. The bottleneck is in moving and synchronizing ideas and knowledge between minds, which physical remoteness hinders greatly. Developing software for and with other people just isn't the kind of job that can be efficiently remoted in all but few cases.

This isn't remotely (:haw:) true. You can still "synchronize ideas and knowledge" without being in the same room. I can speak to and see my coworkers in realtime. I can even pair program with them. And there is a tool for every kind of asynchronous communication you can imagine (which is probably the bulk of your communication as a software dev).

The only thing is your company has to be set up for remote work, and has to have buy-in from everyone else. So this

Pollyanna posted:

Our designer/product owner seemed to resent the remote workers, and was often kind of an rear end to us

...the local workers were regularly confused when I said I wasn't actually in CA and that I was sticking to a 9AM~5PM EST workday

was destined to fail from the start, not only because remote workers were treated as less equal than other workers, but also because Pollyanna refused to accommodate her team by being as available as everyone else.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

JawnV6 posted:

No, no, All Development That Matters looks exactly like my container-slinging remote work, any delta from this platonic ideal can best be explained as a failure of management, possibly even personal failure of the developers involved to be looking out for their own happiness!

There's exactly one of these test cards in existence, it cost us 6 figures of NRE.... yo can we get a cheap bike courier to carry this thing around??

There are more container-slinging jobs (or jobs that could rise up to container-slinging) than there are expensive-proprietary-hardware jobs. The original guy was claiming it's only possible to do in a few cases which is not true.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
I just finished doing this - I quit work, traveled for several months, then came back and found a job. Yeah, there’s basically two things you need: a good reason for leaving, and something programming-related you can point to that you did in that time. The first is pretty fudgeable (give generic answers of career growth, not feeling challenged). The second is less so, but it doesn’t need to be big (e.g. studying a technology or related field). Something substantial but not programming-related would also probably work. If you’re very lazy, delete and recommit a previous project of yours.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:

I've met several recruiters in my day.. They generally seem to breathe oxygen and wear clothing. The younger females generally tend to be extraordinarily beautiful. They speak a language vaguely resembling English, but consisting entirely of anecdote and sports/reality TV references.

I can't find the small girl grimacing emoticon but :ughh:

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
I can't help but think this is all some elaborate troll. You guys don't actually ask FizzBuzz, do you? Or worse yet, sit there while the candidate writes out a solution? Describing the problem and having the candidate write it out might take 10 minutes, which in an hour-long interview where you also want to talk about their background and have them ask questions is a significant amount of time. And if they do end up solving it, as hopefully most candidates passing your HR screen do, it's a completely useless signal for determining whether the person is actually a good coder. There are so many better softball questions to ask, I can't help but feel anyone asking FizzBuzz shows zero value for their own time.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
No, I'm saying it's fine that people fail FizzBuzz. But it was an exercise literally designed for testing the very bare minimum of competence in coding. If someone passes it, okay, you just spent time establishing they are at least the very bare minimum competent at coding. Why would you not want to ask a problem that is at least closer to the minimum of competence you are looking for in the position?

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 6, 2019

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Ok fair, I've never worked at a company without technical recruiters, I'm sure some of the stuff there is different but I don't think FizzBuzz is one of them.

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

As for why you don't start out with questions targeting your minimum competence threshold, my main reason is because I don't want to crush the interviewee's morale by presenting them with something that they're completely incapable of handling. Ideally by the end of the interview, the interviewee feels that they've solved as much of the problem as they knew about.

Okay, I definitely don't think you should be a jerk to your candidates, but my point is your bar is set at the wrong place. Why not ask them to write a hello world program just so those 75% of developers failing FizzBuzz can feel like they got something right?

Guinness posted:

Often, the whiteboard coding is not the goal of the interview. I'd like to focus on system design, architecture, patterns, etc.

Ideally this should be in a separate interview from the coding one, but if you have even less time to ask coding questions, why ask one that gives you so little insight as to how good of a coder someone is?

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

FizzBuzz is meant to be a 1 minute question.

It's not though. If the candidate hasn't heard of the problem before (if they have, your test is useless anyway), there's a minute or two actually understanding the problem, a couple of minutes actually writing it out by hand on a whiteboard, maybe then running through it because it would be embarrassing to get such a basic question wrong.

And once you're done, that's it. You can't really expand on the problem (unless you want them to write Enterprise FizzBuzz, which I guess could be fun). You have to start over with a completely different problem to actually start seeing if the person could get the job, and you don't really have time to ask all that many different coding problems in an interview.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

cynic posted:

The interviews I don't get are the ones where they sit you down and ask you to actually code something at some dudes computer. I once got sat down and asked to write something at a strange computer, with a strange IDE, with an unknown OS (ok, Windows, but I'd been at a series of Linux/OSX based places for the last half-decade). It takes me 1-2 days to setup a happy funtime development environment from scratch, what the hell is expected of me in 30 minutes?

That's pretty bad. In my last job search it seems like a lot more companies asked me to bring my own laptop in, with which I would join a coderpad link. I liked that a lot more than whiteboarding and wonder why all places don't do that, it was just so much faster and easier to write code. (You'd also have to have the option of lending a laptop to candidates as well I guess)

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
You can't tie individual bonuses to team metrics like KPIs or product revenue for exactly those reasons. Individual bonuses should be tied to individual performance vis-a-vis individual expectations. Individual performance is measurable, it's not as easy as looking at a "dollars go up" line graph, but that's why the manager is being paid.

Of course, the bar for managers is really low-- very few bother establishing expectations with their reports outside of what's in the job description, much less continually revisit and revise the expectations. So it's no surprise they can't accurately assess individual performance by the time performance evaluation season rolls around.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Not really, it's more like individual performance is measurable if you know how to measure it. And get this-- one way you can evaluate individual performance is by their impact on the company.

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 23:54 on May 3, 2019

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Y'all are misunderstanding. You ultimately NEED to measure individual performance somehow, because it's the individual that gets the money. I don't think we disagree here. But you can't measure individual performance against a team's KPI, or really any one set of numbers-- which is what some posters in this thread are suggesting, or what some bad managers who create bad reward systems try to do.

The point I'm making is (1) the manager is always evaluating individual performance against individual expectations, and (2) the manager needs to spend time figuring out individual expectations (and the signals for those expectations-- because expectations are abstract qualities).

As an aside, it's the job of the manager to at least have a sense of their reports' contributions to a group project, whether or not the individual manager is the team manager.

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 4, 2019

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Is this the hilarious How poster of yesteryear? I forget his exact name, just that he was wrong about every single thing he said.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
edit: nvm

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
I think we should stop engaging how :^)

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 8, 2019

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Pollyanna posted:

What is this and why do I see it a lot now?

It's an emoticon, if you angle your head to the left it looks like a face that's smiling.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Actually how is right, code silos (aka multi-repos) where developers exercise operational oversight (devops) over their micro-services are a good idea for a lot of companies.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

marijuanamancer posted:

Would you take a job in a language you don't really like/care about if it meant moving from only getting to develop sometimes to full-time development, and also a substantial (almost 2x) raise in pay? Or should I hold out for something more aligned with my goals?

Absolutely. Moving between full-time dev positions is easier than moving from a not-dev position to a dev position.

Keetron posted:

The problem is specialising in a language that has either no future or a very toxic future. While 2x pay is not to be ignored, if it is a dead end language you might want to apply to roles that give you a mere 50% raise but much higher future earnings.
I would say: avoid COBOL as it pigeonholes you in certain industries and you have to work with other people who build in COBOL.

Languages are just tools. Carpenters aren't thought of as hammer engineers. You don't need to "specialize" in a language unless you're making the language.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Don't get me wrong, there ARE people that actually specialize in a language. But that's not the right way to approach general software engineering.

You're ultimately being paid for your speciality in a problem domain. Some domains are more specialized than others (building web apps vs. building flight software). But programming languages typically aren't problem domains, they're implementation details. You need to understand why you chose your implementation, but you don't need to let it define you.

In the context of the original post, you can actually write good code in PHP. And you can write PHP for your entire career and still only need to mention PHP once on your resume. If you talk instead about how your understanding of a domain lines up with the company's needs, you will be an attractive candidate no matter what.

e: ^ gently caress i let this tab sit open for a bit and this guy steals my word

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Iverron posted:

Need some advice: I’m at the end of the interview process with this startup and in what I presumed to be the “offer letter” call they bring up a stipulation: they’re awaiting a round of funding that is expected to close soon and any FTE hiring is on pause until that clears. I don’t really have much of an issue with an offer in principle contingent on that funding except that they’ve offered an alternative in the mean time: a brief, several month contract period as a trial with FTE to follow assuming all is well.

This isn’t the first time this has come up although it didn’t come up until one of the last interviews in this process and I more or less professionally declined it at that time. Nothing in the listing states anything about this and I’m not really in a place where I feel like I need to take that kind of risk so it’s a little offputting. I feel like for a Senior level position after an in depth practical, several hour+ interviews and face time you kind of have to just roll the dice or accept taking more desperate candidates.

Any thoughts? I’m trying to not get too caught up in Sunk Cost reasoning and it’s definitely thrown me off.

Maybe this is my own ignorance, but if they were hiring for the role before the funding round, why would they suddenly stop hiring for it during?

If you’re in the position for it (i.e. don’t need to start working asap), I would say “call me back once you’re ready to hire me full time” and continue interviewing. I wouldn’t like that type of uncertainty.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
My experience has been the exact opposite: startups always ask me (once I got a 150k+ job offer off a reference alone, without really having to interview), big companies (FAANG) don't.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Also depends where you are in your career. In the first several years, and especially if you chase promotions, a 15-20k raise every year or two isn't that crazy. I've seen someone go fresh out of school to senior engineer to staff engineer in 4 years.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
The companies on that website are some of the highest paying tech companies, but yeah they seem to be pretty accurate.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

oliveoil posted:

Maybe I could tell the recruiter about that stuff. Got an S at L3 which implies at least EE L4 which implies I was likely doing at least a modicum of L5 work.

Sorry to dogpile but I don't think this kind of thinking is true either. Exceeding expectations at L3 might mean you're an L4, sure. But this doesn't really hold up for the L5 -> L6 promotion, since you're basically expected to do a different kind of work.

Why do you want to be an L6 so badly, anyway? It's a FAANG so you're getting rich anyway and L6 is just more work.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
More specifically, eat an adderall

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
G loves to down-level, especially if they don't see other FAANGs on your resume. They're also offering way fewer RSUs than they used to. So maybe a bullet dodged, glad you found a place you're excited about.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

John DiFool posted:

I guess I'm an oldie now. > 15 years experience doing programming/software dev/etc.

What used to be a pretty good work environment has turned sour for me. It went from our little org in the company being self-directed and small teams executing fast into an agilefall JIRA assembly line where it feels excruciating to get things done. Most days I feel completely burned out and don't want to do any work at all. A lot of the engineers I who I consider to be good and look up to have left for other opportunities. I've started looking as well, but I'm currently feeling very cynical about any opportunity and resent the fact that I'm probably going to have to grind leet-code problems for a few weeks to dust off all the poo poo that employers pretend they care about but typically have little or no impact on day to day duties. Despite having a several pages-long resume listing many impactful projects and results I'll have to prove once again that I can solve another loving stupid coding challenge.

I guess I need to take some extended time off, but I feel guilty and I'm worried it will hurt my opportunities going forward.

Has anyone taken a leave of absence before? How did it go?

Finance wise I'm in a very good spot. Relatively LOC, and It would take several years to burn through an appreciable amount of my savings. Not that I particularly want to be out of work for very long. I'm also wondering if a lot of companies are going to be last-in, first-out if the economy really tanks over the next year.

Has anyone been in my spot before? What do you recommend?

I'm at about 10 YOE and I was at my 2nd-to-last job for 4 years, then took 9 months off to gently caress around and travel. I was a little worried that employers would ask about that, so I took one of my old projects on GitHub and re-committed it so I could point and say "hey I did something tech-related." Turns out, no one even gives a poo poo and I didn't get asked about it once. 90% of interviewers assumed I was still at my last job (not seeing the end date on my resume) and just moved on when I corrected them.

It's even more understandable / easier with covid to take extended breaks, so I wouldn't sweat it. If you have the savings I 100% recommend taking extended time off. Coincidentally I just quit my job after 3.5 years, I had the option of taking leave / mental health recharge but I honestly don't want that looming specter of coming back (esp. at a fixed date)

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Sab669 posted:

I really want the freedom to just work not just "from home", but from where ever I want to live with no expectation of needing to go into "the office".

Almost no company will agree to a carte blanche policy like this because they just see it as a potential massive tax headache. Your two options, after getting a fully remote job, are:

(1) don't tell anyone if you go somewhere temporarily, which works if you just want to check out a different place for a month or so

(2) establish yourself as a good performer to justify the headache as a one-off sort of thing

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

cum jabbar posted:

poo poo's terrible right now. Got laid off 6 weeks ago and I've only managed 3 phone screens after 150 applications. Two years ago, I was turning down interviews because I had too many!
Recruiters are tightening up who they spend time talking to.

It's a problem with your resume, not the market

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Good Will Hrunting posted:

The only reason I'm not looking is that I sincerely doubt I'll get 300k in this market without going FAANG - which I have zero desire to do besides maybe Google but I'd get down leveled there and it wouldn't be THAT much of a raise.

there are plenty of companies that aren't FAANGs paying 300k+ TC for seniors even, and yes in this market

Sab669 posted:

This is where I just feel fundamentally "broken". I read about a guy who got hired at Google, his first day on the job and his manager got fired. No one had any idea who he was in the company or what his responsibilities were, just collected a paycheck for however long.

this is nice to fantasize about but it doesn't actually happen

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Good Will Hrunting posted:

I'd probably need 375 to leave. Of course there are companies paying that but I'd wager a guess that they're extremely competitive and I am not smart, I'm at a glacial pace big company now so my resume doesn't look all that great over the last 18 months, and I am 2+ years out of practice at the algo lottery.

sounds like you're disqualifying yourself before you even try. interviewing is a lot like school where it doesn't really matter how smart you are, as long as you put in the time to study. and there are plenty of ways to phrase extremely bog-standard work to sound impressive (as a staff engineer, you should already be somewhat familiar with selling your ideas in order to influence others).

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
1. Your PR template or tool should have a section to fill out about testing. Testing needs to be cultural. If someone did not fill out the test plan, comment "how did you test this?" and nothing else. Eventually people learn to fill it out.

2. Not exactly sure about this one. You could preface your snippets with "(pseudocode)". I probably wouldn't be able to resist being a little snarky.

3. After they respond with the error message, ask them "what have you tried so far?" It's fine if they take hours or days to respond, that shouldn't impact your work (if it does because you're blocked or otherwise working on the same thing, escalation to your manager is fine).

I wouldn't necessarily say being unable to read error logs is malintent, it's a skill many junior engineers must learn. And mid-level could mean they were a junior engineer last week.

I also think a good senior level behavior is learning to be okay with the dumpster fire around you. You are oftentimes going to be the most experienced engineer in the room, and other people or other teams are going to make mistakes. Ideally find a way to create systemic fixes (like making the test plan field of your PR tool mandatory). But don't get too invested in other peoples' mistakes if you don't actually have control over what those people do.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
Yeah it's kinda dumb Github doesn't allow you to actually enforce the template, but you can write a CI job that does some of the validation.

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Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
I agree with just about all your points, but developers don't want to fill out a long rear end series of checkboxes that don't apply to their change. The ideal PR template is just 2 freeform sections for PR description and test plan. About 1% of PRs will want to skip filling this out (usually for time-sensitive incident response) but it is not a heavy burden on developers*

* about 5% of developers are resistant to any sort of process change, it's fine to be opinionated and just do things for the sake of the development process, but you do need to be someone people generally trust

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 20, 2023

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