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csammis posted:The idea that if one member of a team gets a raise or a promotion then another member of that same team absolutely must not get a raise to compensate. I think Microsoft did (does?) something similar and called it stack ranking. Had my last boss approach this conversation a different way. I was in my review asking for a raise, and he explained the zero sum situation (he didn't use that term). He asked me, if I were to get the raise I was asking for, who should not get a raise or get a smaller raise to compensate? Motherfucker, I none of the people in this department are my subordinates and I am not responsible for determining their compensation. That's YOUR job. What you're doing is trying to make me feel guilty AND attempting to avoid personal responsibility for telling me "you aren't getting a raise, sucker" by making it seem like decision is in any way my responsibility. Because you're a complete piece of poo poo (for many, many more reasons than this, I might add).
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Jun 22, 2016 19:16
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Skandranon posted:Tell him he's the one who shouldn't get a raise because he's obviously delegating most of his job to you. No no, the budget for raises for plebs is separate from the budget for the nobility. Probably because of buffer overflow issues.
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Jun 22, 2016 20:39
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Strong Sauce posted:iirc, they found that brain teasers had no correlation to actual performance at the company so they stopped doing those. Thought that was Microsoft, who are the ones who came up with the "interview 2.0" questions in the first place. Or so I've read.
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Jun 23, 2016 02:15
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Stinky_Pete posted:Any advice on what to say when giving 2 weeks' notice? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A4UGtM4hDQ&t=109s
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Aug 15, 2016 19:53
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Humphrey Appleby posted:I'm curious about how long some of these people have not coded and how rusty they are. Also how many are just asserting control so they can appear valuable and hang on to their jobs. Last boss did this with everything, not just code. The company had everything in WinForms and when I got assigned a task that involved burning down a piece of old software and rewriting it, I proposed using WPF (and associated good design practices) to make it more modern and maintainable. And yes, I also wanted experience using technology that was created this century so I wouldn't get pigeonholed into being a CRUD factory worker. His response was, "No, you don't want to be on the cutting edge, you won't be able to find a job!"  So it's 2012 at this point; nobody who knew poo poo about the .NET world would call WPF "cutting edge." Oh it had its problems but it was still mature and reasonably well documented and quite well suited to the basic tasks we needed to accomplish for this application. rear end in a top hat was just trying to be In Charge but he didn't know a goddamn thing about what I was talking about so he tried to blow smoke up my rear end. So in one sentence, he: 1) Told me he didn't know a goddamn thing about modern programming technology (which isn't a deal breaker in a boss, on its own) 2) Insulted my intelligence by expecting me to believe not one but TWO ludicrous assertions (that WPF was on the cutting edge and that being up to date on tech would be somehow BAD for my career), which in turn forfeited any respect I had for him 3) Insulted my intelligence AGAIN by making it something so easily researched and refuted 4) Lost my trust by lying to my face This sticks in my mind because it was the first incident that clued me in to his bullshit. If it were just this one event it wouldn't have left such a lasting impression, but it was just the beginning; the SH/SC threads are littered with my stories of him. Seriously all he had to do was ask what WPF was and I could have given him an explanation as brief or thorough as he wanted, but he's such a narcissist that he couldn't say he didn't KNOW something. Scandalous! (I did the project in WPF anyway because he wasn't going to magically figure it out, and he loved it). Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 05:33
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Dark Helmut is a recruiter that frequents the SH/SC IT threads and has stated that many companies do in fact convert some of their C2H employees into permanent. It's a way for companies to try before they by - specifically it allows them to not bother with all the benefits and insurance for longer than they might otherwise need to. That said, I personally am very wary of these positions, because as others have mentioned, there's almost no upside for the employee unless they are desperate for a job immediately. The risk is already disproportionately large for the employee, adding the C2H dice-roll just feels like adding insult to injury to me. It's probably mostly an illusion - people get let go from "permanent" positions after a month or two all the time in this country (I'm assuming we're talking about the 'States here), but maybe I just don't like having a solid, looming deadline for proving myself hanging over my head.
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Aug 30, 2016 03:03
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kloa posted:Does it hurt to interview for a position if you don't feel qualified? I don't want to apply, get laughed out the door, and it hurt any future prospects with them. Them being Amazon, even though I hear occasional horror stories, I'd like to keep my chances open if possible. I'll go so far as to say you should ONLY interview for positions you don't feel qualified for. If you feel completely qualified, chances are you're way overqualified. And yeah, you don't get only one shot. Many companies have a minimum waiting period (like 6 months to a year, typically), but that's it.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:29
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I now have three companies telling me "hey, everyone loves you, just give us some more time to figure out where we'd put you". And they've been doing this for over two weeks now. Is this at all normal? One of them is Google, which I would have hoped would have a pretty streamlined hiring process by now. Though I've never personally dealt with it, Google's hiring process is notorious for its inconsistency and sometimes glacial pace. Some people in these threads have waited months for a decision. If you get an offer from another place, you can always get in touch with your contact at Google and say, "Hey I have an offer at another company and they want an answer by <date>, is there any way I could get an answer by that time?" (Or, you know, do that with any of the other companies, I'm just playing the odds that Google is going to be the slowest) In any case, keep trying to get regular updates (I'd do once a week for each company unless they direct you otherwise). Frame it as best you can as you being eager for the opportunity, rather than them annoyed or confused about the lack of communication.
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Sep 11, 2016 18:55
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Followed up at 11:30am, it's 5 local time and I haven't heard. Am I being ghosted? You should take delays as personally as you take complete rejection - that is to say, not at all.
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Sep 13, 2016 01:38
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I quit my last job 100% because of my boss. It was a corporate CRUD factory so none of the projects were challenging in and of themselves. Under normal circumstances I would have used the time to learn basically whatever the hell I wanted and turned out little internal business apps until I felt in danger of stagnating or I wanted a real pay increase. My boss was such a vicious, toxic creature, though, that I used my time to desperately learn whatever I could that I thought might help me beef up my resume so I could get the gently caress out of there, without particularly giving a poo poo about the end product. My current gig doesn't pay as well as I'd like, but I'm going to have a really hard time leaving unless something changes. The work is challenging and the people are excellent, with one exception that I can more or less ignore (wipe up the seagull droppings as best I can and move forward, basically). Also I walk to work, which is a loving ENORMOUS benefit that is almost impossible for me to quantify.
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Sep 14, 2016 02:30
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I find that adopting a "what's done is done" attitude is the best thing to do after an interview. Sure take notes for next interview but dwelling on it is just pure stress. Hard to do though, I know.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:21
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Infinotize posted:I got InMail (tm) from Linkedin and MS leading with "I'd love to hear about all the great work you've done at <X>." Where at X I am in new hire training, and my profile says sept 2016-present. "Well, this sprint I logged into my dev machine AND our developer wiki. I'm working on the next sprint item - adjusting my office chair so I can be the non-typing member of the pair-programming pair - is in progress, but the requirements are a little vague. Looking forward to the challenge!"
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Sep 20, 2016 04:45
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GlitchThief posted:I've been pondering over some stuff for longer than I'd like to admit, and I finally decided I just need to throw it all out here and see if anyone can either point me in the right direction or inform me how lost my cause is. Congratulations, you're a real developer. Edit: ^^^ See? SEE??? Usually I have to make a post like this in the Newbie thread once every couple of months, because someone always makes a post just like yours (minus the "I've been working in the industry for 6 years" part). It's always some variation on "I don't feel like I learned enough, or learned the right things" and "I don't feel READY" or "I don't feel like a REAL developer yet." What you're doing is looking at all the stuff that everybody knows, and thinking, "I don't know everything that EVERYBODY ELSE KNOWS." Think about that. You feel inadequate because you don't know ALL THE THINGS. How silly is that? You'll never know all the things! Stay with me, I'm using hyperbole to make a point. You've spent 6 years in development and in that time you've been exposed to more technical knowledge, frameworks, languages, and techniques than you even dreamed existed 6 years ago. You feel like you're falling behind because in the course of learning one thing, you uncover 5 more things that you weren't aware of. Pay attention because this is important: this never stops. It never stops because there is already so much in our industry to learn and know, and technology moves so goddamn fast that there's more on that pile every week. You need to accept this as an ironclad fact, so you can focus on what's important. What's important is that you've been a developer for six years. You've presumably created things, written code, done a shitload of problem solving, and learned how to do a lot of things. You're also obviously hungry to learn more things. It's certainly possible that your environment is holding you back and causing you to stagnate; it happens, but that's no reason to think you can't get a better position. Also, realize that most places are going to have some deficiencies in terms of your career. Is another job going to have some major challenges and areas of unfamiliarity for you? Yep! But that's going to happen no matter what job you had before, because again, there's just so drat much to know. The most important thing is, can you adapt to the new environment and learn what you need to to contribute? (The answer for you is yes, you became a developer organically which should tell you something about your ability to learn). Start enumerating all the stuff you've created and all the bugs you've fixed in 6 years. Make a list. Don't loving compare it to people who blog about code or the 25-year veteran developer in your company or whatever, just look at it on its own; I'll bet you've done a lot. Did you write some crap code? Did you take down a live server once or twice? Sure! Who cares! Take the more impressive stuff (and stuff that expands the variety of technologies and processes you used) and put bullet points in front of it: now you have a resume. Now send that poo poo out to recruiters and companies who posted jobs, and don't waste your time with "3 years of experience" neither. You've got 6 years, go for the positions that have "7 years with all these languages and obscure frameworks nobody's heard of REQUIRED" or more. Let them filter you out, don't do it for them. And yeah some places will reject you because you don't have 5 years with THEIR version of Floof.IO Web Framework NEO, but many will be looking for smart people who can fit in. Everyone worth their salt feels the way you do, you just have to accept the feeling as a part of the industry and kind of person you are, and move forward. Also I always link this video when I make this post, it may help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3kQyqMFpQ Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 00:43
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I count non-guaranteed bonuses as worth exactly $0, because anybody with their hands on the company purse strings can say "we didn't do well this year, no bonuses, by the way look at our two new corporate jets that only executives will ever be allowed to use!" So yes, I'd be wary. Whether it's worth looking for another job is something else again; market average isn't necessarily a bad thing after all.
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Sep 23, 2016 18:32
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Yeah I had to deal with some butthurt for showing internal code in an antipattern talk that was two years old and written by somebody that I know had left the company. I tend to use my own old code for this kind of thing, if I have some laying around that works as an example (there's plenty to choose from!  ) Sidesteps the sensitives, lets people know they can poke fun a bit.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:05
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moctopus posted:The interview process is still an insane and it's going to be that way for a while. I don't mind coding projects as long as they're reasonably sized and have basically no chance of being something that the company is going to take and use in production. The "build us a full website with membership and a content management system" from the other day (in the Working In Development thread, I guess) is hilariously inappropriate.
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Oct 7, 2016 18:49
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:Do Angular 2 & React qualify as "bleeding edge" techs? What about Moment & Node? What iterations of Python, Lua, Unity, etc are out there creating buzz? I feel like any Google search my nascent returning-to-programming-as-a-primary-focus-no-for-real brain would make lacks specificity. Unless you have a specific company in mind, chasing the bleeding edge is an exercise in frustration. Focus on the fundamentals, and focus on solid languages that aren't going away any time soon. If you want to work mostly on frontend, learn Javascript, HTML and CSS. If you're more into the middle layer, it's hard to go wrong with C# or Java (Python's probably fine too). You can take experience in those languages and apply it to the more specialized poo poo as you go through different companies (who all use different frameworks of the month, and no, you don't have to have 5 years of Fadly.IO to get a job somewhere, even if a job posting is really insistent about it). Again if you have a particular company or industry you're targeting, and you know they lean towards certain things, by all means feel free to specialize. The financial sector for example sees a lot of C++ and F# from what I've heard (but I have no personal experience to back that up). But if you get the fundamentals first, any path you start going down will be easier to escape if it turns out it's not for you.
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Oct 14, 2016 01:04
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Maybe interviewers are just.. bad? Well, yes quite often, but not because they ask about SQL . As other posters have said, many places want candidates that have at least some basic familiarity with SQL. Even if it's not on your resume, or obviously not something you're an expert in, they're going to try and find out what you know about it during the interview if they use it in their systems.
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Oct 19, 2016 06:25
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Ralith posted:Surely they can't actually expect you to be a net benefit to their company in a single day. Common wisdom seems to be that it takes at least a couple weeks for someone to ramp up and be productive. I'm sure that someone there said, "interviews are bullshit, let's put them in a REAL work environment instead!" The first part of the thought I applaud but the whole plan was not thought out very well.
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Oct 25, 2016 06:55
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necrobobsledder posted:and asking me to pay because the client won't pay a recruiting fee. I hope you laughed at him loudly enough to hurt his ears.
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Nov 8, 2016 08:37
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rt4 posted:Almost 90 days in to the remote job I started in October, I got a call from my boss. He said although I know what I'm doing, I'm a "poor fit" for reasons he can't find a way to describe. Now I'm unemployed. What the gently caress?? Somebody got their budget slashed.
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Jan 5, 2017 03:41
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b0lt posted:Organizing the world's shitposts and making them universally accessible and useful Until you get bored with the project and it withers away.
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Jan 7, 2017 06:28
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Cancelbot posted:stupid politics Depending on the severity this can be a dealbreaker for me. If it's petty nonsense I can deal with it but if we're talking about stack ranking tied to compensation, backstabbing among team members, a huge diva roadblocking everyone else, I would personally run screaming if I saw any of that coming. Unless I had authority to change it. quote:And now for something (slightly) different: People in these threads like to make fun of the word "DevOps" but don't underestimate what a team like that does. There can be a LOT of overhead involved with releasing products, and having a separate team dedicated to it can free up the other teams to a surprising degree. Obviously it's a judgement call, if your company already has a very smooth process then maybe this team wouldn't have a lot of important things to do after a short period of time, but in my experience they work just as hard as any feature team. Still, if that's not the direction you want to take your career, your answer to that team should be a solid Not Interested, period. Also keep in mind that a low-effort job, if that position does turn out to be one, is likely going to be incredibly boring after a very short period of time and you'll probably end up hating life if you're anything like most developers. quote:I'm feeling pressure from senior management to take over the toxic team as they do see me as a strong personality who can deal with their crap, but I don't like the toll it would take on me and would prefer the new team instead. At the same time I'm not a fan of sacrificing my career progression even though being super-dickabout team sounds more fun. gently caress the pressure, apply for the team you think will be best for your happiness and your career. The toxic team might be a challenge you want to tackle, and it might be possible if you have hire/fire authority, or you might not want that kind of challenge (I like computational challenges, but fixing other people's interpersonal problems sounds like hell to me). If nothing looks good at that company for your career growth, then it's time to shop around.
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Jan 11, 2017 00:32
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piratepilates posted:Time tracking only sucks when you have to do it in a very fine resolution, and when your boss cares about how accurate it is. I had to track my time working on each project at my last job. It was a corporate CRUD factory and we did not ship products, it was purely internal. My boss flatly refused to accept 8 hours of work on a project for a day, because that implied 100% time spent staring at screen with fingers hitting keys. No breaks, no bathroom time, no sitting back and looking at the ceiling or speaking with a co-worker. As if my brain immediately stops processing a problem the instant my eye line crosses the bezel of my monitor. This was the guy who wrote me up (literally a written warning in my employee file) for clocking in (yes, clocking in) at 8:00 (when my shift (yes, SHIFT as a developer) started) because I wasn't technically at my desk until 8:01 therefore I was late. So I'm sure the sociopath wasn't forcing me to record less than 8 hours of work per day in order to gather ammunition against me. Surely not. Joke's on him, I was so checked out by the time he started up with recording hours that I didn't give a gently caress and was less productive than I would have been working 4 hours a day for someone I respected who paid me decently.
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Feb 2, 2017 04:59
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm drat near certain that your shift starts when you arrive at your workplace, not when you sit down at your desk. I remember reading about some company that got sued because their parking lot was at the rear end end of nowhere and it took like 10 minutes for employees to get from the parking lot to their desks, which time they weren't being compensated for. ratbert90 posted:There are very VERY few things I like about being Salaried; this is one of them. Oh I didn't mention this but I WAS salaried there. Pollyanna posted:I'm sorry but I'll be hosed if I spend more than a core 8 hours in the office/at work. The less flexible a job/boss is about hours or time, the more I take this stance. If I can work for 6 hours one day and decide to go home because my brain is leaking out my ears, and nobody bats an eye because I get my work done, I'm much more willing to stay late if there's a problem or come to a maintenance window at gently caress-you o'clock or something. They operate with good faith, so do I. Needless to say, after that little incident I didn't give them one extra second of my precious time than I "agreed to." Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 00:12
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Iverron posted:Maybe one day I'll be less cynical about these "benefits". When those benefits aren't used as a cheap substitute for good compensation, it's easier to not be cynical about them.
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Feb 3, 2017 22:23
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genki posted:Sounds like the DBA just had a different expectation for the work process (and he admits that the issue is his problem if he said that it was "totally his fault", I assume). I don't think it's ridiculous or stupid, it's just a matter of working with your DBA to set expectations about code changes that change the db schema (or touch the DB in any way really, because when changes happen in the DB, they become his problem). There's no reason he should be demanding a pre-review with just him, but yeah his overreaction is probably just frustration over a poorly-defined or -executed process when it comes to his domain (the db). Easy enough to try and get him directly involved. Now if he digs in his heels and wants everything to be done his way without being willing to bend at all, that's a harder problem.
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Feb 9, 2017 10:44
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minato posted:I'm gonna guess that they've had a few time-wasters who cheated to pass the phone screen, and got a free trip to Seattle out of it to completely bomb on the whiteboard test. Poor Amazon, having to deal with the same poo poo every other company trying to fill high-paying positions has to deal with. Their overreaction is going to get them more desperate recent grads that can be abused than it will experienced professionals. But then, maybe that's what they want; younger people with stars in their eyes that are willing to take some abuse.
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Feb 17, 2017 12:52
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Good Will Hrunting posted:Is there anything I should do besides just go in, review the languages and frameworks we're using, and wait until planning moves quicker? I'm not the only one noticing a distinct lack of work and slow pace as two of the other Senior engineers (who work remotely) mentioned it in our StatusHero updates. So, you aren't doing any dev work beyond reviewing what technical documentation already exists? I'd be going a little bit nuts after three weeks of not actually developing anything or seeing any progress towards me being able to develop anything. Maybe try to fix some bugs in the existing system? It'll get you programming again and get you more familiar with things so it'll be easier when (if) the work you were hired to do finally starts up. Also, if you do that without asking permission (at least as far as writing the code, not necessarily deploying anything), it'll give you a good idea of how much autonomy you'll be getting at the company; if they praise you for taking initiative and contributing during a difficult period, that's a good sign, if they reprimand you for daring to do any work without permission from THE LEADERSHIP then that's not so good. Though you may already have some idea of how much independent thought you're going to be allowed in this job, judging by what you've written. You could also look into improving some part of the dev pipeline (deployment automation, source control, whatever might be lacking). Might want to get permission before you dive too deep into that though. If there's literally nothing that you can (or are allowed to) work on until they get done designing this one thing, I'd probably start sending my resume out. I'm absolutely not content to sit around with my thumb in my rear end for three months while other people make design decisions. It's incredibly depressing, both to waste that much of my life doing absolutely nothing, and to not have my expertise trusted enough to contribute to the design. I'm not interested in being a glorified assembly-line worker. Fixing bugs solves the former issue at least.
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Feb 19, 2017 22:02
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Pollyanna posted:That's what I meant. You can decide for yourself what your work ethic is. If you want work no more than 40 hours per week because you've decided this is a job and you'd rather live as much of your own life as possible, that's fine. But you have to realize that this may alienate the people on your team that put in more time, as well as many management types who just expect you to break your own back for the company because this is 'Murrica dammit. Me, I have an unspoken agreement with the people I work with and for: I won't be a clock watcher if you won't. That means if you need me during a midnight maintenance window or an emergency outage triage or even several weeks of crunch time, I'll be there. In return, you don't get on my case if I have to be in late in the morning or leave early in the afternoon because I have to take care of some personal business of whatever nature, or want to take a nap, or want to sleep in because I was with you in that aforementioned midnight maintenance window. Evaluate my work, not my time. If I'm not getting enough done, let's talk about it. But do not frame the conversation in terms of when I start and when I leave. As far as your immediate situation, crunch is crunch and whether you're working 40 hours or 60 you should probably be laser-focused on the immediate problem, not learning other tech that you don't need right this minute (yes, long-term goals and policies about training never take this into account. Ignore these during emergencies). Now if your company is in a state of permanent crunch because management can't plan, that's something else entirely. But again you're going to get resentment from the people who don't realize that the failure is coming from a lack of planning, not because the devs aren't working 24 hours a day. Long-term, if you want to be a 9-5 programmer and not get resentment over it, your best option is probably to go into the corporate world. Small corporations looking for one programmer to do internal applications for other teams. Brainless CRUD factory work.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:17
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Salaried devs are exempt in the states for the most part.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:08
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I think the extreme demand for the services these professions provide also have something to do with the pay, along with the difficulty of attaining even basic competency. Agree that the hours are something you should try to get clarity on ahead of time, though. Best to approach this delicately: "What's a typical work day like for you? When was the last time you took a vacation?" See if you can get a picture of the overall work/life balance, rather than just asking straight out if you'll be required to work more than 40 hours. I'm a huge advocate for changing the culture surrounding work but an interview is not the time to plant that flag.
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Feb 24, 2017 08:59
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Pollyanna posted:Budget I can handle, its securing a job and insurance that bugs me. Insurance aside, I thought having a job made it easier to get one, so that'd be a reason to wait. Then again, I don't know how true that is. If you're worried about having a gap in your insurance coverage, COBRA is usually available (though you'll be paying the full premium now which is usually pretty nasty if the plan you're on is decent). I've quit before I had something lined up. In general I wouldn't recommend it, it's a source of constant stress that only builds as time goes on until you become employed again. But sometimes it's the right choice, and that's something only you can really evaluate. Some people will look down on you for having any unemployment on your record, as if work is a virtue unto itself and you are somehow less for having not worked at some point in your life. You don't want to work for people like that anyway. Most won't care about a blip or two. If they ask you can give them something vague or even the truth (softened as much as possible so as not to sound angry or bitter). For what it's worth, it's probably safer to quit without something else lined up in this industry, than in most others. You shouldn't have much trouble finding a new gig in any case.
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Mar 8, 2017 21:59
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Shayl posted:I think the Seattle/Portland moonshot isn't that dangerous if you're a developer. Lots of tech jobs out there. HOWEVER, keep this in mind, housing and other expenses are likely to cost a lot more than you're used to coming from the midwest. I've lived in St. Louis and Seattle and apartments easily cost 2x as much in Seattle. The pay is better, but consider that impact on your savings if you do go. Also if you're looking to purchase a home in Portland, know that this is not a place where you can cruise looking for For Sale signs or leisurely browse listings and try to decide between two or three different places before finally putting down an offer less than the asking price expecting to then negotiate. This is a place where a house will get seven offers for 10-20% above asking price before it even gets a chance to get publicly listed, and that's not an exaggeration. Be prepared to rent for a while. That said, the surrounding provinces aren't quite as bad if you're willing to do the commute (car traffic is pure pain but our mass transit system is pretty okay).
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Mar 21, 2017 09:22
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B-Nasty posted:Tell your boss that you won't sign it until your lawyer finishes reviewing it and advising you, and just let that hang out there. If he flips his lid over a reasonable request, then you have your answer as to what to do. I'd strike every word and then sign, that's what I think of crap like this dropped on my desk after 5 loving years holy poo poo. After that amount of time at one company, in this industry, they'd have no call to insult me like that. quote:10. Arbitration and Equitable Relief.  
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Mar 23, 2017 06:14
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Arachnamus posted:Is there a :ripcord: smilie? It's not a smiley but I always think of this guy:  Edit: Though "ripcord" refers to the thing that disconnects a parachute, so I guess my pic isn't accurate. But I always like excuses to post it, heh. Che Delilas fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 19:23
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oliveoil posted:Can you do that as a junior developer at a company like Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc? Yes, you can do that with any job at any level. The trick is how much they're willing to budge.
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Mar 24, 2017 02:10
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oliveoil posted:I thought those big companies just didn't budge. I remember asking both Facebook and Google recruiters and they told me those agreements were completely non-negotiable. I don't know about those companies in particular. They might not. But if it were me, and there were an item in an agreement I didn't like, I would cross it out and send it back in and to hell with whatever a goddamn recruiter says.
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Mar 24, 2017 02:24
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oliveoil posted:I heard that Facebook has a process where if you think that something you're working on - in your personal time, with your personal equipment - is not relevant to any of their products, you can ask for and be granted the rights to your project. So that even if the super broad "we own everything you create" assignment agreement is something you must agree to, people still commonly get exceptions for individual projects, like video games or something. Does anyone know if that's true? No idea if it's true, but if it is, no thanks. I'll start out with "I own the rights to everything I do on my own time" and not give any company any help in taking away those rights, no matter how nice they've been in the past about GIVING THEM BACK once they take them. I won't leverage trade secrets or company contact lists into my own directly competing business and poach customers or use company hardware to work on personal projects instead of doing my job. That's the deal. If any company has a problem with me editing an employment agreement to that effect, I can only conclude that they are operating on bad faith and fully plan to try and take advantage of the overly broad wording at some point during my tenure. Don't need to put up with it. Won't.
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Apr 1, 2017 09:28
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| # ¿ May 13, 2024 05:21 |
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:This isn't about the company trying to control what you produce, it's just about being open about who's making what using what resources, so that if you go public with your product they don't have to go "wait...did that guy build that with our stuff?" It's seriously just about bringing their legal costs down by making it so they don't start any court cases they aren't likely to win. Or from your perspective, making it so you don't have to deal with getting sued by your employer when you did nothing wrong. I understand that for most companies this is probably the case and they aren't going into these things intending to gently caress people over with nuisance or frivolous litigation. Unfortunately it doesn't matter to me what they intend, what matters is that they are claiming these advantages at all. Because if the worst case happens, I would then face additional disadvantages (for instance, having to prove that an agreement I signed was not legally enforceable or too broad in scope to be valid). As gays fashion said, the implicit threat is already asserting control over what I do. Finances being what they are, a business already has a MASSIVE advantage over me as an individual in a potential lawsuit even without such language in an employment agreement. I'm not willing to give them more without any consideration in return (for example, if they want the default state to be "we reserve the right to assert copyright over work you do on your own time, and if we assert this right we will pay you <contracting rate> for the hours you spent creating it," that's something I could work with).
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Apr 1, 2017 19:59
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