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So I was an x-ray tech but job prospects were slim to none in Finland for six years, so I went to university this fall to study computer sciences: https://www.tuni.fi/studentsguide/curriculum/degree-programmes/uta-tohjelma-1705?year=2022&activeTab=1 Now I'm wondering what to do next summer. There won't be school in Jun-Aug, probably not much in May either. What kind of work could an old guy (I'm 37 heh) get after 1 year of CS? I can't get even temp jobs as an x-ray tech so it must be something else. Flipping burgers maybe? First year of CS consists chiefly of mandatory courses like programming 1-3, functional programming, some math & statistics, intro to software development, maybe techniques in C programming language, a git course. Prog1-3 have python, c++ and java respectively. I could probably choose other courses too if necessary (they have a big list: https://www.tuni.fi/en/students-guide/curriculum/course-units?year=2022 ) Maybe I should do a roguelike and share the git repo with potential employees? No idea how this works really.
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Oct 16, 2022 16:55
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 02:28 |
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StumblyWumbly posted:Are you thinking of getting an internship, or do you want to jump into full time work with 1 year of school? Either way, the way to stand out as a candidate is to have a GitHub portfolio with some clean project examples. I guess the word is internship. I don't really need that much money, I'd just love to get something productive done in the summer which looks like something in my CV. No idea what that could be though. In case everyone else quits the healthcare sector during winter in Finland I may get some work as an x-ray -tech, but I'm so far giving a 0,x% probability for that to happen. From experience gathered by other people I know mixing work and studies is extra difficult. One of them suffers if you want to do the other at least half decently. So I know a ton of people who have yet to complete their studies/degree while they work full time... quote:IMO, Python and C++ are great languages for very different things. Python should be easier to pick up and learn on your own, it's used in a ton of places. C++ is for embedded stuff or very large programs that need to manage memory carefully , or just very old code that predates modern languages. Java is closer to C++, but I don't run into it ever. Thanks. I think it's some compilation of legacy decisions. Two local universities merged, and one had all their courses in C++, the other in Java. So they made a compromise like that, and switched the noob course to python to ease people into programming.
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Oct 16, 2022 18:01
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I applied for a job, with a 21-row .txt file containing my contact info, github, resume and application. They actually contacted me and arranged a 45-minute phone interview with HR. I never would have even dreamed of something like that happening with such an application. Next they want me to do some coding task, with a 80-minute time limit. If I pass with a good grade, I may get to a live HR + technical interview. If I pass that, they'll arrange some kind of personality test or something. Drug tests. Local NSA-equivalent does a basic security clearance... All this for a 3 month summer job. drat. Do you have any pro tips on how to prepare for such coding tests? I have done Advent of Code and some algorithm course puzzles, maybe I should do some leetcode to warm up? If problems contains parsing, maybe use python or rust? If problems are algorithmic, perhaps C++ because of reasonably short syntax, good speed and lots of features in STL? They use the https://futureskill.com platform for tests.
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Feb 6, 2024 09:40
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I noticed the site had actually some tests you can practice with freely. I did a few "medium" level ones and they were not too bad. Then I clicked the link on email, and the landing page said the test will be of "easy" level, heh. Well I spent 15 minutes writing "a" solution, and because I was curious, nearly 3 hours trying to figure out how to write a generic solution. With the tools available (no AI, no friends, no github, no google etc.) it proved to be quite difficult to figure out only with Rust docs. Well basically I could not implement a function which works with type T instead of a specific type like String, char, i32 etc. I haven't had the need to do it before, so I did not really know how, could not learn fast enough based on rust docs only, and inside a web browser window could not get it work without better tools. Well, off towards new disappointments. I highly doubt they will want to see my rear end on a technical interview after this.
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Feb 6, 2024 17:29
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Mantle posted:I think it makes sense to pick ONE language as your puzzle language. I like Python because it's reasonably fast to write and it has a good standard library. Thanks, maybe I should stick to python in future  Don't need to care about types or "proper" syntax with that...That seems like an useful site, thanks for the tip!
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Feb 6, 2024 17:32
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Would have been more helpful to know the goal, ie “make it compile and pass tests in whatever way”. I would have stopped tinkering with it instantly after that. What is overwatch? Some other real person actually monitors what you are doing?
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Feb 6, 2024 21:24
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The exercise I did was timed, 80 minutes was given. I provided a working solution in 15, and spent rest of the time failing to make it any better.
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Feb 7, 2024 06:34
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I applied to embedded sw trainee position, and immediately got a coding test. Only language was C++17, time 60 minutes. This time I did not do anything fancy. I implemented the slowest possible solution, which at least worked, and I finished it in the allotted time. I kind of assumed I could use some other language but I was too tired and didn't look properly before beginning. My C++ was a bit rusty so much of the time was spent browsing cppreference.com Welp, in the final screen after submit it said my solution was better than 93% of the results, heh, ok. It really was terrible, iterating through the same vector multiple times. With a smarter algorithm I could have done it with 1 pass. I could probably have done it given enough time, but not in the timeslot. Immediately after finishing I got this email from some probably very fictional person: quote:Hello Ihmemies, At least this is miles better than an rejection after a few weeks, or no reply at all. --- I still have the feeling that the Finnish school system has been going downhill for decades, making everything easier, lowering the requirements, skimping on everything possible. Since that permeates the whole system beginning from elementary school, they can't demand enough from students at university level either. It feels like the school actually does not teach enough, and I have to try to figure out stuff by myself way too much. Well, such is life I guess these days. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 8, 2024 |
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Feb 8, 2024 21:08
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Hadlock posted:Keep us posted on when they tell you that you're hired, and you need to buy your own laptop from their preferred vendor, and they'll reimburse you after purchase My friend has been working at the company for nearly three years, so it really exists and this definitely should not be a scam…
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Feb 8, 2024 22:42
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Welp, what is ADA? Apparently a MIL-STD was created for the language in 1980, so based on that it looks like to be some really legacy stuff. I applied for a job, and accidentally wrote their code task with rust. Someone had the idea of pulling an extra position from under the table, and asked would I want to learn Ada? I have a 2nd interview next week, is this a good idea y/n? Better/worse than COBOL and FORTRAN? Chatgpt gave me some code samples, and it doesn't look too bad..? code:
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Feb 9, 2024 13:55
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lifg posted:I’ve never used it, but people who have always say things like, “it takes forever to write, but once a program compiles you know it’s correct.” So kinda like Rust. Well, that sounds good enough. I am still doing my bachelor of computer science, so I doubt they want to pay me that much. Probably 2000-2500€/month. I moved away from healthcare and I don’t have any programming related positions yet under my belt, so I guess I can’t even be that picky really. Thanks!
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Feb 9, 2024 14:52
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ultrafilter posted:If your entire job is working with Ada and you don't get exposure to some more modern technologies then you might have some trouble on your next job search. I am thinking this too. Will I be forever stuck with Ada… 
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Feb 9, 2024 15:19
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bob dobbs is dead posted:see? better be american citizen I know. I just like my flat earth, lakes, and drinking pina colada in my summer cottage by the lake. There's basically too much people for me, if I move anywhere else. Too busy. Too crowded. Not worth the money. Thanks for the great Ada story hendersa! Some companies like Saab use Ada too in Europe too. I found a guy who knew a guy who worked on the project I'm applying for, and he said that the work pace was also glacial. So I guess Ada + glacial go hand in hand? Based on that, there could be lots of time to practice my Rust skills as a side project. I will continue with my master's studies in autumn 2024 so I have an honorable way to do less work then, or no work if they don't like me, after the summer.
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Feb 9, 2024 18:13
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Welp, went to the Ada position interview. Of course without practice, without exercise, like a huge noob. I remembered only too late that I should probably do something like that. It lasted around 40 mins, basically they asked why on earth would I want to learn Ada, and roasted my code exercise's solution (I did it with rust). Whole building was under security clearance so no access to internet, no photographing allowed, guards everywhere, lockboxes outside meeting rooms for phones etc. If I can read a room, I read it thus that they are looking for someone, but that was not me. They were too different than I am, and people usually like to hire similar people from my empirical experience. Also they didn't even suggest looking at my papers, which usually means they are not interested at all, so why bother looking. Off to new disappointments I guess.
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Feb 13, 2024 15:57
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leper khan posted:you dont want to wotk in a SCIF anyway. dodged a bullet imo Probably not, how would I then spend my days shitposting? Really, what's so bad with SCIF though? I have no previous experience.
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Feb 13, 2024 16:15
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:If you took it on yourself to learn rust, why on earth would gently caress with ada? Rust is one of those languages you pull out if you want to appear to be a trendy, modern, up-to-date developer. Did you talk about functional programming at your interview? If so, another strike against. Of course, they asked me why I wanted to learn rust, and I mentioned the handy FP features of rust too… On the other hand, they for some reason thought I’d be amenable to learning Ada because I submitted my solution with rust. Originally they were looking for c++ or Java developers, but they didn’t limit the languages applicants could use with the programming tasks. I’d gently caress with Ada because I have nothing lined up for summer, it would be my first computer toucher job as a cs student.
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Feb 13, 2024 18:14
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When, if ever, is the moment to ask noob questions about the job? Like - What kind of version control you use - How do you apply common coding standards, with linter or something else? - How do you verify the results? Unit testing, static code analysis, something etc? - What dev process you use (scrum, waterfall etc)? - Can you describe your code review process? Maybe at the end of a tech interview? What if I forgot to ask anything, any way to avoid a potential horror show before signing up? I guess it is not appropriate to ask these afterwards before getting a job offer. Maybe between getting and offer and signing up?
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Feb 14, 2024 04:26
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Thanks. I am a noob, not a player, so that means I am always extremely lost during interviews. I only manage to gather my thoughts long after the interview is over, during that I am usually a shambling mess. Way too much is at stake in one moment, and I get crushed under the weight. They said I can ask questions later after the interview. I don’t know if that is some “we just say this”, or do they actually mean that. I can’t tell the difference.
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Feb 14, 2024 08:01
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Yes, thanks. Problem is that I did not realise to ask them in the end of interview. They mentioned I can ask my stupid questions later, and I got now an email from the hr person I can send them to. Maybe it is good to ask, even if for practice. For example 3 questions, like - what should I be able to achieve in 1/3/6 months - how are the decisions made (who says who does which thing) - how do they measure code quality and guarantee that it works as it should work These or something else. Maybe I should move the discussion to another thread, but since this is kind of post-interview stuff, I don’t know for sure.
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Feb 14, 2024 16:18
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Welp, they actually answered my questions. Guess the bar for an Ada programmer is not too extreme. For the "what should I be able to accomplish in X months", as an example, they answered this: This question is somewhat difficult, as expectations depend on both the chosen person and the agreed-upon work, but generally: 1 month: Produce functioning code under guidance so that it works at least on one's own workstation. 3 months: Independently produce components that also work in the target environment. 6 months: Independently implemented, tested, and documented component. Quite reasonable, and of course expectations can always be uhh.. surpassed? They use a 2-week sprint etc, based on all the answers it felt like a reasonable workplace with good practices. Now I just have to wait and see what the result will be... The company has like 4B yearly revenue with 15B+ € order backlog, so they are not going to run out of work anytime soon. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Feb 16, 2024 |
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Feb 16, 2024 16:09
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Welp, the company I interviewed for said they are not interested. They planned some extra position for me, where I'd do their Ada stuff. On the phone today said they don't have the resources to create a position for me after all, whatever that means. Surely they are not out of money with 15B+ order backlog. I interpreted it as "you're not worth our time, not good enough".
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Feb 22, 2024 11:01
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Thanks. I do not take it personally, it’s just easier to vent a bit instead of just keeping everything always inside. As long as venting does not happen towards the potential employer. Forums seem to be a working solution so far. I simply was too hopeful, usually I get rejected a lot earlier in the process. I have many other applications to other companies, maybe one of them works. I was interviewed to an another position where they do some PHP stuff with Moodle yesterday. They said they’ll invite me perhaps for a technical interview “later”. At least I got a free lunch out of that if nothing else
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Feb 22, 2024 16:10
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 02:28 |
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Seems there are an endless amount of companies with infinite backlogs - and they would like to recruit senior people. Kind of an chicken-egg problem.. can't be a senior if you can't get work experience. Same story over and over and over. Despite that one guy I know is trying to talk me a trainee place for summer in the company where he works. He kept me an informal interview for 2 hours yesterday after I posted a picture of a beer glass on a bar terrace (glass had the bar's logo on it). He said he had gone over my github and had liked discussions with me on the group chat. They have a SCADA system which has user-facing parts implemented with web technologies, mostly node.js and typescript I think. Because they have an infinite backlog, which means too much work for not enough people, that they most likely can't provide a mentor. So I would be on my own. My biggest problem is selling myself so I suck at interviews and situations like this Is it possible to convince some manager at a company that it would be ok to take a chance with me? What do the people want to hear, I mean could a guy with BSc's degree somehow convince a manager that he can succeed in a situation like that? E: I was a registered x-ray tech earlier, and before graduation I worked at my first x-ray clinic at some bumfuck town. They were desperate to get someone and had no alternatives, so they hired me despite not really wanting to. I didn't have experience working alone so the summer went nose on the book style, trying to figure out exactly what kind of pictures they want fron each case, and if the pictures I took where good enough. And trying to source for tips on how to get the pictures they want in more difficult cases etc. It went well and no one died, and they kept hiring me for 2 more summers after that! Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Apr 10, 2024 |
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Apr 10, 2024 10:08
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