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asur
Dec 28, 2012
Give accurate estimates for tasks that don't cause you to burn out, finish tasks to your estimates and then say no when asked to work ridiculous hours. There's an assumption here that your boss won't fire you for not working ridiculous hours, but I've never seen that happen and if it's difficult to replace you then it doesn't make any sense to do so.

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asur
Dec 28, 2012

sink posted:

It seems to me the professional thing to do is to ask your manager first if everything is okay with your coworker, just in case that coworker has a special arrangement with the organization, for whatever reason. Don't throw your coworker under the bus, don't say that the situation is compromising deliver dates, just ask. If your manager doesn't suck, and they are paying attention to anything at all, this is more than enough to signal to them that they need to take some sort of action.

Asking your manager about a coworker's personal life is not professional and talking to the manager at all is potentially throwing them under the bus, though that shouldn't matter all that much. If you have a good personal relationship with the person, I would just ask. If you don't or want to approach it professionally, then determine how their behavior is negatively impacting your work, what they could do to lessen the impact, and then approach them or the manager with that information. In this case, the issue seems to be not so much that the coworker is absent, but that they are not communicating when they will be absent so ask them to update their calender or whatever method the company uses to communicate when people will be available.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
You also need the total number of shares to calculate the value per share. I'd probably also ask if the company buys stocks, and how it does so, and if there are other avenues to sell shares.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

necrobobsledder posted:

Yes, completely outside defense (ok, the customer was defense technically but as an outside product vendor that didn't require more than U//FOUO / public trust type of clearance that any idiot at a major corporate sell-out would be able to pass). It was VA. MD is poo poo for compensation compared to VA and for taxation - I've lived in both states. I was offered less base and zero other comp, funny enough, at a defense contractor for pretty important work on a random BS Big Data project (everyone says that it is, granted) that required a TS/SCI.

Private sector software comp outside the major software vendors in the DC area is surprisingly bad (I got cap tables and salary breakdowns that VCs shared amongst each other for the DC and NYC area up to founder levels through a contact that works with VCs in the Bay Area - DC was at least 20% lower across the board), and even among those big companies that do offer top 20% aggregate comp, they will be related to dealing with defense indirectly almost certainly. Even Google's top sales engineers in the area may pull $500 - $700k annual comp, but their customers are all going to be defense basically (an old company I was with worked extensively with Google on defense projects).

Would you mind expanding on companies in DC that have higher aggregate compensation? I've been looking for senior software roles there and the compensation seems pretty lackluster when compared to cost of living.

asur fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Feb 9, 2016

asur
Dec 28, 2012

bartkusa posted:

It's two words. Leave it.

Most people will ignore it. Of the remainder, more people will like it than hate it.

I would remove it. The question shouldn't be will more people like it than hate it. It should be will this hurt or help me get an interview. I' skeptical that someone will see that and tilt from maybe to yes, also seems more likely to dislike and go from yes to no since competitive jobs are looking for reasons to trash resumes.


Can anyone recommend a book for brushing up on object oriented programming preferably in C++? An upcoming interview recommended to do so since I've programmed mostly in C since college. An online course or the like would work as well if people think it's a better way.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Necc0 posted:

Take a long hard look at that commute before you dedicate to it. I'm doing Arlington -> Tyson's right now and it's about at the edge of my tolerance for terrible traffic.

If you're against defense contracting like I am then your options are pretty much consulting or sales, yeah. Not to say there aren't positions out there but I don't see anything impressive or worthwhile any time I look. It's really not worth setting up shop here when you have to directly compete with the Northrop Grumman's and Lockheeds for talent.

That reason can't possibly be true as it would just as easily apply to NYC or Silicon Valley. They also don't pay enough, at least for positions that don't require a clearance, to scare off other companies.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
If you want to take a break and it is less than three months, I'd just find another job and tell them you want to start in that time frame.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Good Will Hrunting posted:

That's at least somewhat reassuring. How much time can I expect between HR call -> phone screen -> in person (if I proceed through everything, blah blah counting my chickens I know)? I want to make sure I'm as prepared as possible while not stressing myself out too much.

I would expect a week between the HR phone screen and the phone interviews and then two weeks to the onsite. Most of the delays are post onsite as the process has multiple levels. If you want more time at any point to study, you can just ask. The recruiter should have no issue with delaying because of that. I would reccomending you talk to the recruiter without waiting as they explain the interview process.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

JawnV6 posted:

I don't mean to trash your plan or anything, but that is the most likely case. Leaving a big company after a few years means leaving future-money RSU's on the table. For small things, you can negotiate it as part of your sign-on at the next place (e.g. tell the new recruiter "They paid for my schooling, I owe $12k if I leave within a year" and watch your bonus bump up $12k) but after 5 years at a big place you're probably going to lose out on several tens of thousands of dollars of stock when you leave.

I wouldn't say that you're losing anything in most situations. Unvested stock is compensation for the year it vests in so you can just compare total comp and make your decision based on that and any other factors. The only time I'd say your losing anything is if there is a vesting cliff and you leave before it as you've then worked for some amount of time and not received all your compensation for it. My understanding is that generally refreshes do not have a cliff so the cliff normally only applies if you leave within a certain period of when you were hired.

If you work for a large public company, it is generally very easy to calculate total compensation and then compare that. Where it gets more difficult is if the company is private and/or issuing options as there may be restrictions or requirements on what happens when you leave and there is also the issue of dilution if the company is going through series funding.

asur fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Aug 22, 2016

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Hughlander posted:

Not specifically. It's a type of handcuffs. I make an obscene amount from my bonus and RSUs each quarter. However, I still evaluate other options on an ongoing basis. If you get even 15% of your salary as an RSU grant staying for a full 4 year cliff means that you'd need to increase your salary by 60% to not lose money in that first year. That's a really big bridge to cross and that's why it exists.

This makes no sense. You'd need to increase your salary by 60% over four years or just 15% in your example. You don't need to increase it by 60% to have the same effective total compensation. RSUs are not handcuffs unless there is a cliff as they don't effectively defer compensation.

I do want to clarify that most if not all initial grants will have a cliff which do act as golden handcuffs to keep you at that company for the duration of the cliff. I think the typical grant is a one year cliff and four year duration though I believe Amazons is different.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

rt4 posted:

Pretty sure this means the stock is worthless.

This isn't necessarily true, but at the very least you need to understand how they determine the share price and what options you have to sell.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Assuming I do get in, it'd be in MV to start, but I'm hoping to get the South SF location later, since it'd be a vastly shorter commute. Highway 101 is no fun. And it's not like I need access to 6+ cafeterias full of amazing free food, right? :shepface:

You're going to be really really disappointed if you think there are 6+ cafeterias with amazing food in MTV.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Yes, that's weird. They're trying to trick you into accepting a bad offer by putting artificial time pressure on you -- there's absolutely no reason why they need a response in 2 days, it's just to keep you from thinking too hard about it. Push back.

I don't think it's uncommon, but it's definitely sleazy. Ask for the benefits package and say you want X time to make the decision.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

rt4 posted:

I got HR to send me a vague description of the insurance, but no hard numbers besides "starts as low as $x per month." In response, I said


Is that polite? I don't want to ruin weeks of effort, but I don't feel like HR is even trying.

I would not send that. You're probably frustrated, but I would just send a response that you would like to see the complete benefits package. You could fluff it up a little by stating that benefits like insurance, vacation are important to you and you need to understand what the company is offering to make a decision.

Is the company small? I just find it bizarre that they don't have a document that outlines everything.

asur fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 14, 2016

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Good Will Hrunting posted:

Got contacted for a position where the bottom end of the salary range is what I make now and the top is about 10k lower than what I want but still a 20k raise. However, the requirements seem steep for this range (I "meet them all" - I just feel like someone at this level should be getting paid a bit more especially because it's a known start-up in a major city).

Do I I go through the process or just bail?

If the requirements seem high for the pay and you meet them then why don't you have a job making more? I would evaluate if 20k is worth switching jobs over and then proceed from there. It also seems unlikely that the salary listed is total comp.

asur fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Sep 27, 2016

asur
Dec 28, 2012

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Google wasn't willing to negotiate on my offer. :shrug:

Did you have a better offer to use as leverage?

asur
Dec 28, 2012
In my latest job search only one place had an assignment and I told them to gently caress off because that's a gigantic waste of my time. I sure hope that isn't the new normal:

asur
Dec 28, 2012

taqueso posted:

At least it is usually only a competition between applicants, rather than a competition versus some autistic ideal.

I like the idea of a practical exam of some sort, after hiring in a different field I saw how many incompetent people lie about their skills. People would swear up and down that they had years of experience and then fail the most basic skill test spectacularly. Adding a test made it easy to throw out the fakers.

How is the interview not a practical exam? Presumably you're writing code on a whiteboard or computer and since you're there in person it eliminates the possibility to cheat by having someone else do it.

I will say that if the assignment is short, 1-2 hours, and cuts down on the interview time then it's ok. Amazon had this where you took an assignment online that had a time limit, an hour and a half I believe, and then you didn't have any phone interviews and there were only 2-3 in person interviews. The other place I told to gently caress off had an assignment that was easily 4+ hours and then you had to go through the entire process still.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Good Will Hrunting posted:

What do you reply if someone asks a question(s) about something you haven't used in a while? Like two places I've interviewed at now have asked about SQL and I don't list it anywhere beyond the tail end of my "skills".

If you can't answer questions then it shouldn't be on your resume. If they ask something esoteric then clarify that you don't use it frequently and you'd look it up. You're pretty much screwed in that situation though.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
There's a big difference between project management and technical leadership and you seem to be conflating the two. Some companies require the former to be promoted to senior or higher, but pretty much all companies will require the latter as it's what increases your impact.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

B-Nasty posted:

I'd rather the process for hiring devs be more like hiring experienced sales guys:

What have you built and how has it benefited previous companies (quantifiable metrics)?
What value are you bringing to me, your new employer, that I can quantify in the first few months?

And then, if after a few months you don't deliver, they shitcan you.

How are you possibly going to get quantifiable metrics for individual software engineers and attach meaning to them? It's also pretty much impossible for an outsider to quantify value to a company as it's going to be project based.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Ralith posted:

There's all kinds of software contributions that can drastically reduce the amount of datacenter floorspace, specialized hardware, or bandwidth you have to buy, or improve customer retention, or bring in customers from competitors. Uber had a blog post a while back where they boasted about how they'd replaced JSON with a more compact format and saved a ton on archival storage (speaking of fixes you could come up with in under an hour...). There's also all kinds of contributions that don't do any of those nice quantifiable things, unfortunately.

That's exactly my point. Even if we ignore that pretty much all of that is done by teams and not a single person, someone could be in Adwords for Google and increase revenue by hundreds of millions of dollars while the person working on autonomous vehicles at a startup isn't generating any revenue. Even in the same company it's hard to quantifiably rate software engineers and it's going to be even harder across companies.

It's also not simplistic for large companies to fire people. While the law in most of not all states allows for firing without cause, companies are still worried about being sued for discrimination. I assume sales gets around this since they have hard metrics to point to, but the same isn't true for software engineering.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

Last job had unlimited vacation and a vacation bonus -- once a year you'd get $1000 for going AFK for a week straight. Unlimited vacation I think generally comes from a good place, but yeah it does play mindgames a little bit with people. Whatever, just be a grown up and take the PTO you need and want, don't gently caress with the mindgames of it.

I'm not sure I could handle having that stuff strictly tracked -- I'm pretty bad at taking major vacations, but I am constantly taking a day or half a day here or there for random stuff. I would be hosed if I only had 10 of those a year.

It doesn't come from a good place in any circumstance and claiming so is blatantly naive. It's the policy so that the company doesn't have to carry vacation as a liability on their balance sheet. If the company was coming from a good place as you claim they'd just give everyone the max allowed under the unlimited policy so that the policy is consistent across the company instead of being nebulous and manager dependent.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Less Fat Luke posted:

We actually do carry the liability; we encourage 3 weeks as that's the payout you'd get if you were ever let go. People often feel comfortable taking a couple past that too so it's generally in favour of the employees. I'm also not really sure I'd ever qualify it as manager dependent; I'm in that position and have never once turned down a vacation request.

Your company pays out three weeks of vacation if someone quits regardless of vacation taken? I want to be clear here that this is if someone quits, not if they are laid off which is completely seperate and called severance. Your last sentence pretty much loving proves my point about it being manager dependent.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Less Fat Luke posted:

It's a minimum of three weeks vacation so if you take all three you don't have any more paid time off if you're let go. I also clarified a bit; I'm not making a call in regards to allowing or disallowing it. I haven't seen anyone abuse it yet to the point where we've had to make strict policies around it either (maybe there's a hidden 6 week max I haven't seen written down but so far nobody has pushed it).

And yes, severance or quitting. In our HR system we mark the vacation days used and it first goes against the three week standard we have.

These are legit interesting questions and I'm happy to answer them - I joined as a developer and also was super skeptical about the vacation since I have a friend at Netflix who takes about 4 days vacation a year with his "unlimited" vacation and we seem to do it pretty well. That being said we bust our rear end to have really good benefits and it's an amazing place to work.

I will admit that you've found probably the single company in the entire US that proves my previous statement wrong. It's somewhat confusing to me why a company would have a mixed policy like this as they still have to track vacation days and carry liability so why not just give your employees more than three weeks instead of three weeks and then unlimited.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Good Will Hrunting posted:

If you were a hiring manager at a place that uses predominantly Go, and gave out an assignment to someone (me) that has used primarily Java... would you prefer a very good solution in Java or a maybe less good solution in Go but demonstration that you can pick up a new language? I'm torn.

Either put in the time to make a good solution in Go or do it in Java. I'd also just ask what language they wanted it in if they didn't specify.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

muon posted:

I just got the news so I haven't started looking at relocation options, but most likely beginning of January. If Google is like every other place I've worked, it gets super slow in December as everyone uses vacation, which doesn't sound like a great time to start.

That'd be pretty sweet, I don't know anyone in the Bay Area and I need to find like minded people to play board games with.

The first two weeks, one week I think if you aren't in tech, are orientation and have little to no interaction with your team so it doesn't really matter that December is slow or people are out. I would just start whenever is convenient for you. They normally allow you to start on any Monday, but I don't know if that changes in December.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Good Will Hrunting posted:

That's understandable, but to me it says something about the culture when you go in for final rounders and multiple people haven't read your resume in advance and just care about your answers to their somewhat arbitrary questions. Things along those lines. I don't know, this is only the second time I'm interviewing and it's different cause I have more experience and I guess therefore higher expectations, but so far most places have really lived up to the arrogant autist stereotype save for a few which fit the rich startup brogrammer stereotype.

Yes, it says people have better things to do than read a completely subjective document that has pretty much no bearing on if the person will actually be competent and reasonable to work with. The questions may be arbitrary, but they give at least some insight into your competence and how you work. It sounds like you're looking for a unicorn and I find it hard to believe that your current workplace doesn't have any of the red flags that you've mentioned.

As a side note, the last sentence of the quote above doesn't match your previous post. In that you say one person seems to be not great to work with and then in this one you just handwave the whole company to be that way.

asur fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 3, 2016

asur
Dec 28, 2012

kitten smoothie posted:

Got an interview Monday I'm feeling really good about. From my experiences thus far with these folks I am feeling that if I get an offer I'm probably going to accept the hell out of it.

I'm also on PTO until end of the year, as is most of my team.

What's protocol in this sort of situation if I give notice? Would they probably just term me right away and pay out my PTO bucket rather than have me around and be on vacation?

Should I cut my current employer some slack and set up an end date in early January so there's time for tying up loose ends? The advantage for me in doing this is I would also get my PTO bucket replenished on 1/1/17 and they'd pay me out a whole years worth of accruals upon terminating.

It's pretty unlikely that they'll terminate you unless that's the standard policy. As r4 mentioned the handbook may have a policy in place, I know that at one company I worked for you had to work at least one day after PTO or vacation for it to be paid out. Regardless it's a dick move to give your two week notice and then take PTO for all of it. The whole point is to wrap up or pass off your work and you can't do that if you aren't actually there so just give it when you get back in January.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Volguus posted:

Right, if they're dumb enough to admit to the racist reason then sure, sue the hell out of them. But, as you said, they have an army of people ensuring that this doesn't happen. And since they don't need to give a reason, why would they bother?

Because it's not only about the reason they give. The actions taken by your boss matter far more than the reason or lack of one. The way companies ensure that they don't get sued is to put policies in place that ensure that if they fire someone it's either for something egregious or because of actual bad performance and not a bullshit reason made up by a manager. This is why at Google and other large companies it takes forever to get fired for bad performance because they have to go through multiple review cycles, put you on some sort of performance plan to try and help you, etc and only after that do you get fired. In my experience it's pretty rare for someone fired out of the blue.

Layoffs are different and can come out of the blue. I'd reccomend finding out what the severance policy is and how the company normally handles layoffs. Since we're talking about Google I believe that have a generous severance and normally give employees 3+ Months to find another job within the company.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Volguus posted:

Well they are saying that it isn't a problem, but are they representative of the whole spectrum? I mean, US has 0 vacation days mandatory, but I don't think anyone here is even considering not having at least some vacation days from their employer (however laughable it may be for a german the 10-15 days of vacation americans get). We started the entire discussion from a google employment offer. Well, let's be serious, if you're good enough to work for Google, you're good enough to work anywhere. You don't have to worry about a thing, as probably already have several jobs that you can pick from at any point in time you feel like it. And get at least 20% pay raise when you're hopping jobs.

But how do the weakest members of your society feel like? That Walmart or McDonalds employee who has two jobs working 15 hours per day and barely getting by? The social safety net is not there to protect the powerful, but to help the weak get up on their feet. How often are they fired for no reason (or racist reason) and they just simply have no way to retaliate? How often do they go without vacation the entire year? The fact that the law exists it means that it opens an abuse avenue that can be taken advantage of by those with power against those without it. This entire thing looks like that health care debate from days past: "gently caress you, got mine". Just because Google would never take advantage of this kind of law (since their employees are smart enough to make it not worth it) it doesn't mean that is a just law or that it doesn't gently caress over people.

It's not gently caress you, got mine. It's you're in the god drat tech thread and even if you suck you have a ton of opportunities so this isn't an issue and thus we don't need to derail into discussing the lack of employee protections in the US as it has zero bearing on the thread topic.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

smackfu posted:

Has anyone tried negotiating benefits / vacation days at a large company? They seem to have so much policies around it that doing a one off deal would be hard.

I've had zero luck negotiating vacation at large companies. Both times the answer was that vacation is entirely determined by length of employment and that was that. They also wouldn't start me with accrued vacation. The second company increased their offer to compensate, whichever I accepted, but it's not the same thing.

I haven't tried to negotiate benefits, but I would expect the same. I think there's a difference though as as a lot of other benefits, excluding any that give leave, have a cash equivalent and you could ask for a higher salary.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

smackfu posted:

Changing jobs in mid December has interesting side-effects. Like the new job treats holidays as PTO and you earn PTO only if you are employed on the first of the month. So, technically I didn't get Christmas off even though the office is closed. Hmmm. Similarly, no sick days for me! I feel like they really should have though through the edge cases on this stuff.

And this is a relatively easy contract to hire job change.

It sounds intentional.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

AIUI you can negotiate within your salary band, or even negotiate your starting level up, but the step up to the next level wipes the floor with the salary band range, making negotiation mostly irrelevant after you level up I think. Getting promoted to the next level is based on skill and experience and is calibrated across different managers/teams/departments. As far as I've seen it, I think it's fair.

Is it only salary we're discussing here? I've never heard of a company changing previous equity grants based on being promoted and your starting equity grant has a long impact on your total compensation, generally four years.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

canis minor posted:

Yes - as I said - self-sabotaging. For the last days I've been kicking myself over it.

If you did this in the last couple of days you can probably reverse it.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

ratbert90 posted:

If you are salaried and expected to work overtime, then you should subtract that overtime on the days you aren't working.

Make me work 60 hours one week? Next week I work 20.

This is one way to look at it. The other is that your salary is higher then it would otherwise be to compensate you for those extra hours. If this is an issue for you, then it's something you should definitely get clarity on when you're hired because being salaried does not mean you work only 40 hours a week. It's not entirely relevant, but of the jobs I can think of that make the equivalent to better paid software engineers pretty much all of them are expected to work overtime with the two most common examples would be big law lawyers and doctors.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Mniot posted:

Google's interview process is a bit long, and now that I'm older and crankier I'm not fond of how they treat every interview like you're a junior developer. But I've done 3 interviews with them and I felt like I learned a lot every time. It's definitely worth your while to apply.

Here's one of the interview questions (from several years ago) that I remember clearly:


I think if you try it you'll find that it's not that hard. There were some harder questions, and I didn't get an offer on any of my tries, but you should try to get an on-site and feel good if you succeed there. Once you do OK-ish at a Google interview their recruiters will hound you for the rest of your life, so that's a fun ego-boost!

Not trying to discourage anyone, but this question is on the simple side of what I would expect and prepare for. If someone asks this in a non-phone interview I'd expect the follow up with wrapping, I.e using a graph. If you want to do well at interviews at Google, etc you should have a good understanding of trees, maps, graphs, and dynamic programming. Maps probably being the most common since they are used everywhere. Asking questions about specific algorithms or obscure data structures is loving dumb though.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

minato posted:

I hear Google recently tweaked their system to avoid people gaming it, where they'd release a project that had significant impact, then immediately abandon it in the next perf cycle because maintaining and supporting the old project had no impact. This apparently had led to a culture of tools and libs that were plentiful but not supported anymore.

I'm not aware of any tweaks aside from the reiteration of a focus on landing, i.e. the project actually having an impact through use,and not just launch. I've only been at Google a short time, but my experience with perf is pretty contrary to what's been said in this thread. It's better than the single manager option if your manager is bad, but only marginally as a manager still has a massive impact both in determining rating and promo. It's pretty similar to the performance review process at other companies I've been at where you write great things about yourself and others. I've never seen the point of writing honest self assessment for either yourself or others in this type of format as it's very difficult for it to not be held against you later. The normal format for that is some form of one on one.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I do wonder how you're supposed to do a globally-calibrated (i.e. you get the same evaluation for the same skill/impact regardless of where you work) perf without either requiring self-evals to be explicit about everything they accomplished, or perf evaluators to do a ton of research to get context on what the self-eval actually means in terms of impact. If you only use perf evaluators that have context on your accomplishments, then your "cell" is going to get miscalibrated compared to other "cells" in the company.

I guess what I'm saying is, how would you solve this?

Set standards and then calibrate across relatively small groups, say several hundred engineers, and select outliers to calibrate against groups. I know Google does the former, I'm not certain they do the later. In theory will rating plays into promo it shouldn't be a deciding factor and Google is more concerned with promo than rating.

For perf that is targeted for promotion, you do have to be explicit because the evaluators don't know your work and aren't expected to do research outside of what you provide. This is why they explicitly tell engineers outside the US to adapt to American expectations and claim credit for what you did because its likely that the promotion committee will be mostly Americans.

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asur
Dec 28, 2012
I thought the standard was closer to 1.5x? The main costs are paying both sides of FICA, healthcare and other insurance, and the lose of vacation and those don't seem like they'd add up to $50k much less $100k+.

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