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cynic
Jan 19, 2004



Yeah, my wife is in a completely different field (sales) but actually demoted herself from a management position because she enjoyed selling, not being the target of everyones bitching sessions. She also actually earned more as a salesperson thanks to commission/bonuses.

I'm a freelance developer, and I love the variety of the job, but after 15 years of doing web development, I'm not basically not able to change careers or move into fulltime employment, because noone wants to employ someone who has zero recent experience of a structured office environment, and I'm possibly 'too old' to work for a lot of the companies that my skillset would work for (I do a lot of work for marketing/new media/branding companies).

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cynic
Jan 19, 2004



leper khan posted:

Fizz buzz tests either:
A. Having previously read any of a number of articles explaining it.

B. That the interviewee has knowledge of
—a. Loops
—b. Conditional statements
—c. The modulus operator

It wasn’t designed as a test of being a _productive_ developer; it was designed as a test of being a developer _at all_.

Loops and conditionals are common in roughly all sub fields I’m aware of. The modulus operator is less universally useful, but common enough and included in all languages I’ve seen used to build useful systems.

We just did a round of interviewing (for a junior-mid front-endish position) with a written and fizzbuzz section and we had at least two people who just wrote something along the lines of'

"foreach loop?? // brackeds here maybe?
....
{
*indecipherable*"

then just gave up. Both of these people were claiming 2 years JS experience. Oh and NOONE we interviewed knew the difference between POST and GET.

My company is weird though because the average level of coding experience is upwards of 20 years, and getting junior coders who can hack dealing with so many crotchety graybeards and do battle with our elderly QA staff just to do some lovely frontend dev is pretty tricky. We gotta put them through their paces.

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



Pie Colony posted:

No, I'm saying it's fine that people fail FizzBuzz. But it was an exercise literally designed for testing the very bare minimum of competence in coding. If someone passes it, okay, you just spent time establishing they are at least the very bare minimum competent at coding. Why would you not want to ask a problem that is at least closer to the minimum of competence you are looking for in the position?
Our interviews consist of an initial interview with a basic chat with a manager and a techie, and a written paper (which is not too bad, it asks some practical stuff, some academic stuff, and of course fizzbuzz). If you pass that basic competency test you get back for a second interview (and I think only about a third of people do) - then for the basic jobs it's a half hour with the team you're joining with a senior member quizzing you in more depth, and a quick meeting with some management/HR. For the senior positions it's an arduous half-day deal involving presentation to directors and a grilling by senior team members to plumb the depths of your knowledge, discussion on testing best practice and all manner of hell.

I got to review my own paper a while back, and I was quite proud of my fizzbuzz effort - I wrote unit tests and documented it dammit.

The interviews I don't get are the ones where they sit you down and ask you to actually code something at some dudes computer. I once got sat down and asked to write something at a strange computer, with a strange IDE, with an unknown OS (ok, Windows, but I'd been at a series of Linux/OSX based places for the last half-decade). It takes me 1-2 days to setup a happy funtime development environment from scratch, what the hell is expected of me in 30 minutes?

I also once got given an online multiple-choice test on my knowledge of the language using a version that dated from 2001 (this was maybe in 2015?). Apparently I got the highest score out of all the candidates, but that's not a recommendation dammit, it just means I've managed to scrape my memory for how the language worked back in the dark ages.

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



New Yorp New Yorp posted:

I think that they worked on teams that were responsible for those accomplishments. There is an entire subset of programmers who do so primarily by copy/pasting snippets from Stack Overflow and massaging it until it works. This was observed when candidates were given internet-connected laptops, an array of development environments, and told "implement <FizzBuzz-equivalent>. Feel free to search the internet, we don't write code in a bubble".

npm install --save fizz-buzz

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



cynic posted:

npm install --save fizz-buzz

I would consider this a legit answer and definitely second interview material - ask them how they reviewed the package for suitability, ask them how they'd deal with needing to change the code so it was FizzBonk instead - you'd learn a decent amount about how they deal with common real world coding scenarios, and there is a place in a lot of teams for someone who is just skilled at choosing the correct tools and plumbing them together in a sensible, maintainable manner.

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



runupon cracker posted:

The problem I appear to be having is that most of the positions that appeal to me and/or are actually remote are straight-up development positions, not management. I get the feeling that I'm being overlooked for these because my current title is management-specific. I've contacted ~~~RECRUITERS~~~ in cases where I fulfilled not only the position requirements, but also all the nice-to-haves, and been completely ignored. Without getting any response at all, I can only guess, but I get the feeling they see that title and stop reading.

Remote and management don't generally seem to mix well - my own experience is that remotely managing developers or (even worse) designers/UX folk is a living, endless hell of lovely Skype standups and lame excuses.

I had to switch from running my own company to proper employment about 4 years back because I had a child, got cancer and moved to a different hemisphere and it's hard to run a business under those circumstances - my own experience of a major job change like that is that you focus hard on getting into a place that has good lateral movement prospects within the company rather than focusing on getting your dream job. I've had 3 jobs in 4 years, and each is an improvement and gets me closer to my aims, but I've had to be pretty realistic, and leverage my previous job title to get one closer to what I need. I'm getting there now, but it's not exactly been easy, and it's not something you could keep on doing - more than 3-4 years of job jumping and you start looking like a flake.

Recruiters are horrors, but sell to them, and they'll work for you - persuade them you can fill that one tricky position then have (face to face is best, but on the phone works too) and they will actually put some effort in.

cynic fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Feb 10, 2019

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



Forgall posted:

Is it normal for NDA to cover things like client identities? Like, I'm working for company X and we make website for company Y, and in some future job interview I can say that I made website using this framework and that library, but I can't say it was for company Y and give link to site. That strikes me as kinda weird.

I've worked as a contractor and it's far more common in that market - non-competes and non-disclosures of various types. Both for cutting edge stuff (or things they think are cutting edge), and for subcontracts for larger clients - work I did for Subway, Coca-Cola and SAB Miller all came under contract that I did not discus any aspect of them with anyone (the contract has now expired so I'm good). I generally ask for anything of that type I ask to expire and get renewed yearly/3 yearly or something similar so that eventually I can use it as a part of a portfolio or resume once the business sensitive parts of the work are rolled out. The NDA for the coke stuff was because I was creating the prize draw stuff they used internally to generate and draw those printed prize codes on ringpulls and bottlecaps and they really, really didn't want anyone to game the system (they shouldn't have bothered because I designed it so even I couldn't break it once I removed my access to the source and I'm not interested in free football tickets, just the challenge of making a secure & truly random system that can scale to millions of codes and millions of entries a week :smug: )

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Yeah, I've already made the decision to leave. It's more a question of, do I leave to the new team I mentioned, or do I shop around some more? This is just the first option that's come up; there's no particular rush to get away from my current position. But it does seem like a decent option, aside from the problem domain being substantially different from what I've worked in in the past.

Ask to spend some time with the team you'd be working with then? Nothing worse than working with a lame team or with a crappy company. Hard to tell until you spend some time actually working with them, eyeballing immediate management, evaluating the overall level of enthusiasm and competence. The position I'm currently at I spent 2 hours with the two teams I would be working closely with, and although it wasn't amazing, there was noone aggressively inept and no unpleasant personalities, and that was a step above my previous employer.

cynic
Jan 19, 2004



Vulture Culture posted:

Make sure you're around to support it or you define a transition plan with whoever comes in after you. One thing nonprofits don't need is to be committed to a new workflow, process, or web presence and then not have anyone around to support it after the fact.

True. I used to do some work for a non-profit - they actually gave the development job I applied for to someone else, but asked if I could sort out their hardware and software issues. Their previous guy had set them up with a bunch of Ubuntu boxes that they never used because they couldn't work out how do anything with them (probably because they didn't know the root password, and it was a pretty elderly desktop environment on there). Staff were actually bringing in their own laptops from home just to use Windows 7 and Excel. I ended up taking them through the process to get free nonprofit licenses from MS, cleaned everything out, actually setup a password on their wifi, and did a large amount of cable management, actually found drivers for all their printers and scanners and they were really very happy.

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cynic
Jan 19, 2004



runupon cracker posted:

...
- My short-term memory sucks.
....

So, oldies, what say you? Which is the least lame weakness? I'm tempted to go with the UI one simply because it's the least likely to even be on the radar in the new position, where I can, y'know, tell *other* people to do UI.

I've been asked this a few times but unfortunately I can't remember what I answered.

Be honest, but phrase them in a positive or humorous manner (depending on the interviewer and how well you are getting on), avoiding negative terms and words, and anything that might give a hint of insecurity;

* I can get very deeply involved in problem solving, and sometimes I can come across as standoffish, even though that is certainly not the case.
* I enjoy my work, sometimes so much that I need to remind myself to turn off or address other tasks.
* I'm naturally a highly organised person, but it does mean I spend a fair amount of time taking notes and planning.
* I'm very strong on backend and frontend development, but I definitely have a preference for backend.

The interviewer likely knows the techie mindset, can sympathise and recognise all the behaviours above as positive things in moderation. If they try to dig deeper on any aspect, they may be trying to identify a specific issue they've had with previous staff (antisocial, or dishonest, or lazy), try and identify what that worry is from their line of questioning, and try and find a way to reassure them.

cynic fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Mar 14, 2019

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