Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Pollyanna posted:

I've always been told to either specialize in something or get really deeply embedded into a particular company/organization, such that I have something to offer that few to no other people can offer. What kind of specialization options does a software developer have? There's architecture, then getting really deep into a particular technology, then becoming a PM or product owner of some sort. What's the typical career progression?

You're way overthinking 'specialization.' Get a job that challenges you, and you will rise to that challenge. Now you're good at solving that problem. Repeat. "Architecture" is not a specialization, it is the result of building software and learning from it. One can't be a junior dev that specializes in architecture.

You don't generally pick a specialization within a sector and go for it like it was a college major. You become a competent developer, and the organizations where you've developed will have presented you with particular problems that you have become adept at solving. Those problem spaces are your specializations. If you are working at a place where there are no interesting problems to solve, you are not getting n years of experience by working there - you're getting one year of experience n times. A lot of times you can spot this when someone says they specialize in "Rails." Ok, great, you use a framework, but what problems do you solve by using that framework? Carpenters don't specialize in "hammer," they specialize in cabinets or houses. Web developers don't specialize in a language or framework, they specialize in assuring thread safety, application security, scalability, telling their ORM to gently caress right off and writing good database queries, etc.

The same can be said for non-web devs, but of course "builds high-uptime devices with 32k of RAM" generally implies "knows C really well," whereas "builds horizontally-scalable thread-safe web applications" doesn't really imply "is good at Rails" or "is good at Django" (though of course there is some language that that person must be good at). In the web space, companies will generally hire you for the specialization on the assumption that you can pick up the best practices of another stack once you're out of the junior (and maybe mid-level) stage. This is where banging out a toy app in your spare time can be beneficial, because you should not be selling yourself as a Rails dev, but rather as a web developer that happens to use Rails (and so it's nice to have proof-of-competence in other languages).

Other types of 'specializations' exist - game dev, embedded, and systems programming come to mind. You get those 'specializations' by doing them. You'll have to know the relevant language, and then you get an entry-level position doing that and carry on as above. Honestly, though, those aren't specializations but rather problem domains just like 'web dev', and each have their own more granular specializations.

What do you specialize in? Think of the thing you're most proud of at work (or at home if you have rad side projects, but most folks don't) - what did you contribute to it? The conceptual model? Performant DB queries? You found security vulnerabilities in code review? Your animations were beautiful?

Being a PM is not part of the career progression of developers. It is a new career. Some PMs make great devs, and some devs make great PMs, but it is neither a promotion nor a demotion to go from one to the other - it's a wholesale career change.

For engineering career progression, this is kind of silly, but I think it's correct-ish.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



TooMuchAbstraction posted:

There are plenty of software jobs out there that don't come anywhere near the browser. Why should a refusal to do web dev make someone a no-hire?

Pollyanna is a web dev. A web dev that refuses to do front-end programming is not the same as a game programmer that refuses to switch jobs to embedded.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Munkeymon posted:

Amazon recently opened an office here and it looked like they were mostly looking for iOS devs when I last checked. Would there be any point to applying if I don't have iOS experience or will they not mind if people learn on the job?

E: should probably add that, if I got to an interview, I could actually point to languages I've learned on the job, so it's not like I'd be going in there hat-in-hand or whatever. I was just wondering if filling out the application at all was a waste of time.

My brief experience with Amazon's recruiting was a recruiter asked me to send my resume in for some job fair thing, I did, and then they rejected it because I don't have work experience with their stack. Of course, I only had a couple years in the industry outside of academia at that point, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor, too - the fact that you've been in for a decade at this point would probably give you way better odds of not getting tossed out for lack of iOS experience.

If they're gonna reject you for that, it's gonna be before you put in any serious time, so I'd say just go ahead and fill out the application. You know how to program, and it's not like iOS programming is particularly hard to pick up or esoteric or whatever.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



If you don't want to do IT sec, don't do IT sec. There's lots of other security stuff to do if it interests you.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004




You sure do call your sysadmin a nazi a lot. Your tendency to massively and ridiculously exaggerate makes me think that maybe this whole VM thing isn't as big of an inconvenience as you're making it out to be.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Nah, right red hand is the way to go

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



I’m at a company with unlimited PTO. I was very skeptical, but it’s fine.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



If it’s either a sabbatical or a leave of absence, you retain employment with your old company and go back to work for them upon your return. That’s the defining feature of those terms. You’re talking about quitting your job and searching for a new one in 6 months. Those aren’t at all the same thing.

In academia people take sabbaticals as a matter of course. They usually use them to write a book. It’s literally never a bad thing because they’re still a professor of whatever at their institution while they’re on sabbatical.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Keetron posted:

I can see it is ugly but cannot see why. I would rather have a bool have true as a default state, but I doubt that is the issue.

Using conditionals when the ! operator will do is the bad part. Sometimes you’ll also see “!!” to cast a value to a boolean when you want to cast but not negate.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Amazon has like a 72hr SLA on telling you the results after your on-site if that helps. My process there was technical phone screen -> onsite-> offer and pretty much all the delays were due to my schedule and it being the holidays (and they had the results to me within 48 hours every time). This was for sysdev (their version of SRE) though, not software eng

e; I was also interviewing for a very specific team, though

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



You’re probably not going to find many (read: any) schools looking to pay for you to get a masters. Masters degrees are for people that either 1) want to pay for a resume/cv edge (whether for industry or to get into a better PhD program) or 2) are getting a PhD and the masters is just a thing that happens after a couple years in the program

Find a new job that will relocate you.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



I don’t understand why you wouldn’t give it to them. Like, absolutely don’t work for them, but you didn’t want to do that anyway. Show them a screenshot from Workday or w/e, get the offer, and use it for Seattle. If Seattle passes, tell Nashville exactly why they can get hosed.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Careful Drums posted:

Well, I did / do want to work for them. I also wanted them not to lowball me, so I refused to give the info.

You already gave them that information verbally. Providing proof doesn’t enable a lowball any more than providing salary information with your mouth.

Of course if they didn’t give you a chance to back down from the initial refusal, then gently caress ‘em because the first answer to that request is definitely “lol what, no, pay for a background check that includes that info if you want”

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



I live in a state where it’s illegal to ask my salary and illegal not to provide the salary band.

People - who are in-state - still ask my salary and refuse to provide the band, they just prefix asking with “I’m not allowed to ask your salary but...” and pretend I didn’t ask for the band (or say that it’s super variable and then pretend I didn’t ask when I ask what it varies between). But, like, I wasn’t gonna not-cave while talking to bigtech recruiters :-/

Interviewing and recruiting is garbage

Also: sorry for my misunderstanding, Careful Drums!

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Just ask who they’re recruiting for. I’ve never had them refuse to tell me. The thirstier ones will beg you not to apply directly but that’s it.

Good third-party recruiters are great, but most are garbage. If you can get a referral from a friend to a decent recruiter, absolutely use them. It owns having somebody else negotiate for you.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Your resume won’t be as good for react-only roles as someone who’s been doing react for the past few years. You’ll look better for roles that need cross-functional skills.

Really though it doesn’t matter. Apply for the jobs you want. If you’re currently unemployed and don’t have the funds to support that, also apply for jobs you don’t want.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



You know that your number is in their range, so there’s no reason not to interview. If they make an offer that’s too low, you counter. You can do this because you already know that they’re willing to pay you the amount that you need. You’re in basically the best possible position (other than the one where your number is like x / 2, but you know what I mean :shobon:)

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Big tech doesn’t really do takehomes, which is awesome. I’d way rather do a conversational phone screen and a day on campus than the bullshit that small tech companies do where there’s at least one phone screen, maybe having to do a coderpad thing, freaking _homework_, and then you get to go on campus for a bunch of interviews

Of course the non-tech-company thing where (apparently) you roll in and chat for an hour and get a job offer sounds like an impossible fantasy land to me.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



“Not over saturated” is not the same thing as “there is no hiring bar.” In a market that is over saturated, a company would get their pick of well- or over-qualified candidates. That’s not actually the case. Tons of candidates are full of crap, socially stunted, or otherwise bad at things important to our profession. Of the ones that are decent, many have competing offers, decide they don’t want to move or whatever, etc.

If you want to see what actual oversaturation looks like, have a look at professorships in the humanities, where you’ll have multiple people with amazing publishing records from top-10 universities fighting tooth and nail to teach heavy course loads at a random SLAC or even CC. That is oversaturation.

I’m not trying to be insulting, but it sounds like you are having troubles with the “can work on a team and/or communicate effectively” parts. Those are base job requirements, not nice-to-haves. Not being able to do them absolutely makes a candidate unfit for senior (or in many cases mid-level) positions. Luckily those skills can be practiced and learned just like any other skills, but they’re very important.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



He’s got to be trolling, right? FAANG salaries are pretty well documented

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



CPColin posted:

See if you can guess who I was talking about!

Hey leave me alone, I never did anything to you :mad:

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Lmao

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



There’s reasonable CoL adjustment and there’s expecting me to take a 100k salary cut. Without numbers, it’s hard to say he was being silly.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Absolutely, at least if they’re respectable conferences

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



kitten smoothie posted:

So in other words this doesn't pass the smell test to me at all.

Same

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



dantheman650 posted:

Companies will move heaven and earth for you if you have an offer. That’s the best possible situation to be in. You can request the interview date be moved up, and if you get an offer, you have huge leverage in negotiations.

LinkedIn absolutely wouldn't despite having one offer in hand and expecting another very soon.

And that's the story of how i cancelled my linkedin on-site cause I didn't want to interview any more

To be fair I was trying to get them to skip the technical phone screen. They insisted, I got the on-site invite, but at that point I just wanted to stop

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Current one is weird; it skips staff and senior staff

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



I didn't, but I know people who were hired that did

Most likely they forgot to ask you about some class of stuff or _maybe_ didn't get enough info to level (eg you gave strong L3 signal, are clearly not an L3, and they want to get more info so they can appropriately level)

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS posted:

Does this end up being a big deal? I try to make it to around 2 years at least but I've got some promising prospects going now, but my BigN recruiter wants me to try again in six months because I was so close and I feel like I'm pretty likely to take such an opportunity if I have it. Doesn't really make sense to put my life on hold hoping for that though

No one will care if you quit a single job quickly to go work at a FAANG. Plus, there's no law that every position you've worked has to be on your resume.

If you quit a job quickly multiple times, people will care. If you do that, you're pretty much stuck at your next place for a good long time.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



dantheman650 posted:

Anyone have experience with Google team match? Approximately how long does it take and how many teams do you talk to?

I talked to hiring managers about their teams, and then picked one. It took about a week, maybe two.

Importantly, this is the part where you pick, not the managers. It's not a "do they like me." If you're talking to them, they already like you and want you on their team.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Ralith posted:

That's not really accurate; it's a mutual fit assessment, just one that presupposes your baseline technical competence.

It's accurate for myself and everyone I interact with on the daily, and I was explicitly told this by the recruiter and multiple hiring managers.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



It kind of matters when you exercise. Let's say your strike price is $2 and current price is $10. You have options for 1000 shares

If you exercised a year and a day ago and sell now, you'll pay I want to say ~10% cap gains tax on the 8k you made.

If you exercise and then immediately sell right now, that 8k is taxed at your normal income tax rate.

Don't take this as gospel, double check all the numbers because I could have got something twisted. But there is a tax benefit to exercising and then holding for a year.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Eh, I did the speaking thing and it got me precisely zero traction at oldjob. I work at google now which is nice and all, but I don't think that had anything to do with my speaking stuff

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Hippie Hedgehog posted:

the test instructions say to type in the window and if they don't want to take the test, they don't have to take the job

If I write "if you don't want to send a $50 kickback, you don't have to take the job" on my submission form, it does not magically make asking for a kickback reasonable

quote:

If you're the kind of programmer who says "no thanks, I'm not going to run the tests you provide me

If only it were possible to paste the answers in and then run the tests! But alas and alack, 'tis but a dream!

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Sure, Jose, you're not wrong there. We were taking about presenting as a short-circuit through (or at least a significant factor in) interview/promo processes though.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



lifg posted:

How do you get into giving talks anyways? I’d like to do one this year.

You do something and then submit it to conferences. Alternately, you just submit without doing something and then do the thing when you're accepted, but that's more of a "let's talk about oauth/testing/whatever" situation and my talks were "I made this attack tool/I did this threat analysis and here are the results" ]which sometimes don't pan out because you need to do the analysis to know if it's interesting. On the creating tools front, I guess you _could_ submit the talk proposal before writing the code but that sounds like a recipe for failure to me. Much better to write the code and then release it publicly as part of your talk.

To find out where to submit it, search "$FIELD cfp". I do infosec stuff, so there's a few website that list upcoming CFPs (call-for-paper/proposal).

The main things are:
1. Trust the committee to reject you, don't reject yourself. Maybe you don't think your talk is that great, but let them reject you. "gently caress it, just submit" is a great motto.
2. Don't lie in your abstract. If you do, and you submit "MITMing http traffic to steal TLS during insecure creation" as "breaking TLS," lots of people will be mad at you when your talk isn't what they expect and will dunk on you for the rest of the con (and god help you if your resume ever comes across their desk)

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Y'all are acting like everything is more expensive in the bay area. It isn't. It's really just rent, besides that everything's the same as the rest of California, which itself isn't much off the rest of the populated US. Sure rent is high, but when somebody wants to give you a six figure pay increase in exchange for a 15k/year rent increase it isn't the worst deal in the world.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Preschool here costs basically the same as elsewhere in populated California. It's still insanely expensive, but it's fine on my single-income Google salary.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



0 for me too

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



I looked at their comp page and they include bonus in their market target, but it says they don't do RSUs. Does that mean that basecamp's salary takes other companies' RSU grants into account, or do they only attempt to match salary+bonus? If it's the latter, tons of companies meet your bar because at faangs, RSUs are a huge chunk of your income

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply