|
I'm currently an enroute (center) trainee, having graduated from the last academy class before the hiring freeze, in June, 2013. If anyone has specific questions about the enroute academy program, or about the academy more generally, or about the training process at a center, please feel free to ask.
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2014 04:22
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:26 |
|
|
The Ferret King posted:You can increase your earnings steadily but it'll take time. It took me 16 months to fully certify at my first facility and some places take longer. Some take less time and a lot depends on individual dedication. In the center environment, the training program is a bit more structured, but that can lead to situations where you are ready for a required class, but they dont have enough people who need it, to fill it, and thus, you get to wait until they can. As an example, my OKC classmates didn't get into what we call D School until I was already done with it, and on-the-job-training on my first two D positions.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
Boola posted:I understand the pay scale now after your reply. So you work your way from AG pay at a facility up through D1-D3 and then CPC, and that took you 16 months to do. Correct? (And obviously it might take more or less time to reach CPC depending on facility/yourself) Roughly how long did it take for you to reach D1, D2, D3? Those pay bands are also before the locality adjustment is added onto it, correct? I started at the academy on Feb 15th 2013, reported to Miami Center in June, and I'm looking at getting my first two certifications and my D1 raise next week or so. That was honestly pretty quick, though. I caught a couple breaks on classes. Boola posted:The schedule is a little different than most jobs, but I actually like how that sounds. How much paid time off do you get in a year? Is the PTO based on seniority or flat? As a new employee, I get 4 hours of annual leave, and 4 hours of sick leave per pay period. (~2 weeks.) Both are bankable, with a few limits on how many hours you can save, (Its really a lot,) so you can carry it forward. As you gain seniority with the agency, you get more leave. EDIT: Went and looked, I can bank 240 hours of annual leave. Past that, it becomes use-or-lose. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Feb 11, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:Also, it isn't training. It's more like monitoring. Center training is a joke. Trainers that actually train are rare in enroute, most of the time it's just a person monitoring for an extra 10%. The sad part is, in the D/R schools they actually DO train, but unfortunately it is on a lot of poo poo you don't use, or the wrong poo poo entirely since on the floor you will do things so differently. This is mostly 100% true. I have a good friend that just washed on his first two R sides, and is going to Greensboro NC, partially because of it. I've experienced this already as well, but I've been exceptionally lucky, and got my original two trainers partially replaced with two that are a bit more engaged, and are both much better teachers. The second part of your point is a good one, as well. When you get to D/R school, they tell you to forget everything youve learned on the floor, and to do it the "right" way. When you get to the floor, they tell you to forget everything you learned in the schools, and do it the "right" way. The same applies to the Academy to facility transition. Its frustrating.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2014 16:39
|
|
|
DNova posted:Why does that pay chart completely ignore facilities less than 4 in complexity? I don't think the FAA still operates any facilities rated at less than a level 5. Those facilities that would warrant a 1-4 rating are now contracted out. To get jobs there, you essentially have to be a former FAA, DOD, or Military controller, though.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
CatchrNdRy posted:Are your monitors and screens chosen for its appearance because its the most efficient? or because its difficult to update reliably? The screenshots look like what I'd stereotype air traffic control screens to be 20-30 years ago. Why doesn't it look like a trendy smartphone app!?!?! Ferrets enroute radar example at least isn't exactly representative of even the outgoing Host display, let alone the new ERAM displays. That said, even ERAM is pretty much mired in a 1980s era UI design.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2014 03:21
|
|
|
fknlo posted:Our keyboards and trackballs are straight out of the 60's! The numberpad is even backwards! That's the hardest part of the job, learning the backwards numberpad. We did get some new backlit keyboards that look like they're from the 80's a few months ago though. We have em in the Also, they're loving MILITANT about not calling the TTL the DYSIM anymore.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
DNova posted:I would appreciate if one of you would post a more calm screenshot of whatever you look at all the time with a little bit of explanation. This is a (terrible LockMart) image of a next-gen ERAM console:  For various reasons, there aren't a lot of pictures of the inside of centers. The display on the left, almost out of the frame, is called URET in Host, or EDST in ERAM, and contains all of your flight plan data for all the aircraft entering your airspace. It also probes for traffic conflicts, and will alert you if it detects one. You can edit flight plans, enter new ones, etc etc. It also has your winds aloft data, and in ERAM, all of your NOTAMS, General Information messages, weather products, etc etc. The display on the right is the radar display, and it is a triumph of bureaucracy over sane UI design. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 12, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Feb 12, 2014 17:28
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:I still have to use strips at the area in my center and it is absolutely freaking pointless. Terminal strips are so much more eloquent. We're the only area in my facility with no strip posting requirements. It's GLORIOUS.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2014 02:32
|
|
|
Crunk Abortion posted:I'm getting ready to apply for an off the street position, and would love any advice TRACON goons could offer. I just had Parahexavoctal update my resume, did you guys also include a cover letter when you applied? How much should I specialize my resume to include FAA keywords and stuff? Honestly, my experience with submitting an attached resume was not particularly positive. If I were to do it again, I'd transcribe everything from my resume to their forms. That said, I still got selected and hired, at the same age as you, maybe a bit older, even, but I had no end of trouble with my paperwork. Apparently when they get an attached resume, they process it into the same template for everyone, so the selection committees don't have to rifle through hundreds of resumes with different formats.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 13, 2014 12:23
|
|
|
SCOTLAND posted:Anybody here work MIA? I'm curious if it's actually a big deal that you check in 10 prior when overflying Cuba on the way back from South America? Or have relations thawed enough that you talk to each other these days? Are you talking about a comms change, or something to do with your overflight permits? "Contact Miami center on frequency ten miles south of MAXIM," is just a non-radar comms change. They want you to monitor their (Havana's) frequency until that point, then call Miami. The Westside Coastal area in ZMA (Miami Center; MIA is Miami Approach/Tower,) has the majority of Cuban overflights, and their Letter of Agreement with Havana specifies non-radar separation and procedures for all handoffs, because their radar is hilariously spotty and unreliable. As for relations, they're still pretty icy, officially, but to move airplanes, the two facilities have to talk to each other quite a lot more than you might imagine. Each aircraft going either direction is a phone call to the other facility with a non-radar handoff. They'll specify everything on the flight strip, including your estimate for the coordination fix, (CANOA and MAXIM are the only two I can remember,) altitude, TAS, etc, etc, and the Miami controller will either find the automated flight plan, (their automation does talk to ours, but not particularly reliably, hence the requirement for manual coordination,) or enter a new one, and accept the handoff. Havana's calls to WSC come out over the speaker until someone picks up the line, so being anywhere near that area (mine is across the hall,) is essentially a case study in amusing Cuban accents. After that handoff is made, if the Havana controller has no further instructions for you, you'll get that comm change. If your question was something regarding your overflight permits, Welp. 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 14, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
chocolateTHUNDER posted:Most of the ideas people have about your job is that it's highly stressful and causes premature death or some poo poo like that. Basically, that it's one of the most stressful jobs in the world. I would say it comes down to the ways the individual in question handles stress. If you're the kind of person that takes your stress home with you, and dwells on slights and interpersonal drama, it could be stressful, yes.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2014 15:39
|
|
|
In my facility, not every sector has a guard-tuned transceiver. We just have one in the area, at 46. (The midnight sector.) Because of the range in the middle of the training sector, there's an additional 243.0 channel, but not 121.5. When we need to raise someone on guard, we just PVD the data block to 46, and ask them to call em up for us. Our area is physically the smallest in the facility, though. Ocean has sectors bigger than our area. (PVD is a computer function that let's you put a data block on another controllers scope, so he can see it, even if it isn't in his airspace.)
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
Centers themselves have a rather impressive standby generator system. They test them once every couple of months, always makes me feel like I'm working at the airport again.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 18, 2014 17:05
|
|
|
kmcormick9 posted:We get that a lot at ZDC especially during summer months. The high sectors will get swamped so tmu puts out a cap of something like fl200. Your options are fly dca to fll at 20k or delay until the cap is lifted. Of course the pilots always check in requesting higher. FLL is hilariously hosed right now; They only have a single strip of concrete at the moment. Lots of guys trying to sneak south VFR, and then pick up IFR around Orlando getting told to gently caress-right-off.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2014 04:28
|
|
|
The Slaughter posted:No, I mean I'm on the ground, at an uncontrolled airport with no FSS reachable, so I call the clearance delivery hotline to get my IFR clearance. Now what's happening behind the scenes to get me off the ground and in the system IFR? FSS calls the approach or center sector responsible for that sector, and they issue the appropriate clearance, or issue a hold for release, or whatever. Some pilot a few months ago managed to bug someone into giving him the area desk phone number. He called up, freaked the supervisor out pretty good and I issued the clearance off Sebring directly, over the (recorded) phone. Even a clearance from a big controlled field in an approach control gets "approved" by the host center before it gets issued, though. We get strips about an hour before the proposed departure time, and in my facilities case, we can make amendments up till 30min prior, or up until 10min prior, if we call the tower and let them know. We're the reason your filed route gets changed by the clearance delivery controller. Also, some dispatches are really good about learning our preferred routings, while it seems like others learn them just as well, and then purposely file batshit-stupid routes just to watch us twitch.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
Fragrag posted:I had to look this up and holy poo poo, he fired 90% of the ATCs because they striked? And he dared to do that under the guise of national security? Good article about it here: http://www.thenation.com/article/166938/winging-it-battle-between-reagan-and-patco REAGAN IS THE DEVIL isn't exactly the whole story, as is normal. The Ferret King posted:Welcome to near 100% attrition every 25-30 years due to retirements. If ZMA gets the lvl12 we're thinking we're about to get, all the eligible controllers walking out the front door is going to be HILARIOUS.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2014 21:40
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:Won't that mean raises for everyone? Raises, plus retroactive back pay, which also (generally) bumps the highest three years worth of income, which nudges the pensions up. Word is, some people at Albuquerque center walked away essentially with a bigger pension than they had the day before, and checks for ~$100k, from all the back pay. That's a damned fine reason to say screw-it, and retire, if you're already eligible.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2014 23:02
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:Stuff like this cracks me up. Here we are doing more volume than three other lvl 12s yet we can't get any footing in an argument for going from lvl 11 to lvl 12 at my facility. I hope you guys get it. Apparently a re-working of how oceanic traffic is counted is a big factor for us. It looks promising.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2014 23:44
|
|
|
Related: Blue alerts for AR traffic clipping the corner of Tailhook drives me loving insane.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
JohnClark posted:ARs are Atlantic routes, we use them most commonly at our place for guys headed down to Florida. They're restricted to aircraft with the proper equipment though (life rafts and so forth) and they often get shutdown when there are rocket launches from the Cape, especially when the space shuttle was still flying. This. Tailhook is one of the great big warning areas over the Atlantic. Northbound traffic over AR18 clips the southeast corner of it. (It doesn't ACTUALLY clip it, but the computer is over-cautious, so every single loving airplane shows up in conflict whenever it's hot.) Blue alerts are potential airspace violations in URET. There are also yellow and red alerts for conflicts between aircraft. ERAM changes blue alerts to amber, because what the gently caress, how could we NOT give LockMart another couple million dollars.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2014 14:30
|
|
|
The only Q route we really see is SRQ.Q100.LEV. West Side Coastal (the area to our west, that actually adjoins Houston) deals with most of that traffic. We just get a teensy bit of it. As for URET/EDST alerts, the computer probes flight plan and projected track data out for something like two hours or some such ridiculousness. Its all locally adapted to actually display conflicts at different times, but its not so much an "OH poo poo" alert as a planning tool. We're trained to be able to separate aircraft from airspace, and from each other in our own airspace, without any tools at all, with only strips, if it comes to that, but URET/EDST alerts let us be helpful even on things that don't occur in our airspace. We can reach out and fix things WAAAAY before they become an issue, with revised routing, different altitudes, etc. For example, one of the most common is routing south from RSW to EYW. RSW direct EYW is approved by our SOP with West Side Coastal, but when some of their military airspace goes hot, theres a dogleg fix that we issue, called KARTR, that takes them the ~12 miles or so to the east of the direct course, to miss the airspace. Without URET, we probably wouldn't ever think twice about it, but with URET, if we're not super busy, we'll take a second to issue KARTR to the guy, so that the next controller doesn't have to. Saves the airplane a little bit of gas, too. In ERAM, at our facility, TMU somehow became responsible for turning on and off all the restricted/warning areas and MOAs, so I fully expect them to never be right, ever again. EDIT: If you look at the bottom of that chart that FerretKing posted, where AR5 and AR16 meet, theres a fix... A fix called SNABS. A fix that I find it completely impossible to say without chuckling. I don't know why. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Feb 24, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
Just talked to a guy going VFR to Naples. His accent not only meant that he was hard to understand, but that every time we asked him to restate his destination, he said "Cessna one sebbinty two, going to Nipples."
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
The Slaughter posted:If you kindly go check your application status, you'll see that if you're a CTI grad or someone very qualified that you've been denied. StuckMic is an apocalyptic wasteland of shattered hopes and broken dreams.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2014 04:01
|
|
(at least according to my facebook)
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:There is some definite bull shittery afoot. I'd put money on an error in the automation process with the initial resume screenings. Agreed. There's one guy on StuckMic with a masters in an unrelated field, a CTI cert, CFI, IFR ticket, and five plus years work experience, and got kicked out. Also, everyone in my facility thread that had a TOL here has taken a redirect o somewhere else. Meanwhile: we're essentially working six day work weeks, UFA. 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
JohnClark posted:I really hope it's not that, because almost all of those have all the evidentiary basis of voodoo. They predict who will be successful and who won't be about as well as a flip of the coin. And, although it's admittedly a small sample, looking around my facility there are a huge number of different personality types. The idea that you could possibly create a 20 question tool to assess who's the "right" sort of person to be a controller is laughable on its face. There's a woman at the academy that greets you on your first day and administers some tests. She has a lot of letters and abbreviations after her name, is probably borderline on some kind of personality test, maybe the one she administers, and is ABSOLUTELY convinced that her statistical analysis can produce better controllers.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2014 01:46
|
|
|
The Ferret King posted:Someone who left my facility (and the FAA) for a private business opportunity, now works at a contract tower and is waiting to get back in to the FAA. He did not pass the questionnaire. I was roomates with a guy at OKC that had all his D sides at ZBW, quit to go work at a contract military tower in the sandbox for two years, managed to get rehired, and then failed the academy. EDIT: Just spoke to one of the other ghost pilots at ZMA, one of my former coworkers, and she got past the bio quiz. She's CTI, and about to age out, but no experience other than CTI and being a ghost pilot. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 3, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Mar 3, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
fknlo posted:I've heard some talk about it at work and then some guy on reddit that claims to work at KBOI said his ATM is at some meeting where they're discussing it. Apparently cost savings numbers are being run and everything. I'm sure there are plenty of people that wouldn't want to move but would do it anyway because a) good luck finding another job that pays what we make and b) the move would almost assuredly be paid for. Moving ZMA out of loving Miami would be tits.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2014 00:26
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:Why do people want ZMA out of Miami? I know when we were there we were most likely going to buy in FLL. ZMA is in an incredibly congested light-industrial hellhole part of Miami. It's a pain to get to, and there is nowhere to live within twenty minutes of the facility if you're not fluent in Spanish. If you have kids, and want good schools, it's even worse. My commute involves the Palmetto expressway, the Shula, and the Dolphin interchange. If you're familiar with the area, you'll recognize that it's like traffic hotspot bingo. Most people do end up living in Lauderdale, or the Broward county suburbs, and I grew up there, and love it, but the commute just blows giant Giraffe dong.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2014 14:32
|
|
|
Tommy 2.0 posted:That was mostly my impression the small amount of time we were there. When were you here, and were you here as a trainee?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2014 16:45
|
|
|
We had our first successful 24hr ERAM run yesterday. They managed to pair it with the first real weather day of the season, as well. It was good times.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 16:45
|
|
|
fknlo posted:Talked to our head honcho after a briefing yesterday and he said center consolidation is definitely being discussed. Whole lot of hurdles if it ever moves forward. The extremely cloudy rumor I heard was to consolidate ZMA, ZJX, and possibly some of the central Florida approach controls in a giant I could get behind that, if they're using the term Orlando loosely. Halfway between Tampa and Orlando'd be perfect. I wouldn't call the problems with that plan hurdles, so much as giant concrete walls with barbed wire, and the disembodied entrails of a hundred FAA and NATCA negotiators on top. Also, they couldn't even successfully combine Palm Beach and Miami approaches, so I don't see this happening, short of a major initiative, which I also don't see happening in the current budget environment.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 19:26
|
|
|
After much consternation, most of it my stupid, stupid brains fault, I got certified on my first two D sides today.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2014 02:23
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:This has confused me about the distinction between primary and secondary and I haven't seen a clear explanation. Is secondary radar only pinging the transponder and showing the response? Is the popular conception of how radar works and looks only primary radar? Pretty much. Secondary radar is generally overlaid with the primary radar, so you can see both simultaneously. Also, there are places with secondary radar, and no primary coverage. Over the ocean, in areas with poor infrastructure, and in mountainous areas, ATC is done with non-radar procedures, which is literally a chart, a clock, a pencil, and some paper strips. Non-radar is also common near international boundaries, where the two countries can't or won't justify the expense of making their ATC systems compatible with one another. The incident area is pretty much ALL of these things. It's a clusterfuck.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Fun fact: HOST/ERAM keyboards have their numpads flipped upside down. You get used to it pretty quickly, but holy gently caress is it annoying when you try to use a regular one, and find that you are totally incapable. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2014 15:34
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:So they're phone-style instead of computer-style? Makes sense if you're also phoning from the same console. The VCS (Voice Control System) has its own pair of touch screens, as well as a backlit keypad-on-a-cable type of thing that you can move around. Most people put them by their trackball hand.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2014 16:18
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:Would it have had a keypad in the '70s? As tech improves, there are good reasons to be conservative with interface design. Almost certainly. Its still disconcerting when you swap between numpad configurations. You expect a phone or voice comm system to use that config. You don't expect it on an otherwise-mostly-normal computer keyboard. Of course, there's always terminal-radar user interface design...  
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2014 16:45
|
|
|
We have a few flight schools in the area that like to do group cross countries. The majority of their students have only a basic grasp of English, and they like to pick up individual flight following, and then essentially fly formation.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2014 14:48
|
|
|
KodiakRS posted:Been there, done that. Generally we would keep about 3 miles of spacing and only the lead guy would get flight following. Everyone else would monitor ATC and we would talk amongst ourselves on a company frequency. It wasn't an "official" formation but it kept everyone safe without pissing off ATC. I wish they'd do that. Sadly... In other news, summer is coming.  
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:26 |
|
|
xaarman posted:What if you guys had two planes that want to declare MARSA that aren't military? Are they allowed? MARSA stands for Military Assumes Responsibilty for Separation of Aircraft. So... No.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2014 03:41
|
|