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Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable
Yeah as a Capetonian who has been here through both ANC and DA leadership of both the City and Province I can say that there is an appreciable difference in the quality of governing between the two. By almost every measure Cape Town and the Western Cape are doing better than the rest of the country and although I find myself disagreeing with a lot of DA policy, they keep getting my vote just by avoiding truly massive corruption and ineptitude to a degree that's staggering.

The harm the ANC is doing with their eduction policies leaves me constantly wondering how people are not rioting in the streets constantly. When the education minister, Angie Motshekga has to be taken to court repeatedly (http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2013/06/21/all-hail-equal-education) just to get a set of standards schools must meet published, you have to wonder what you have to do to be fired by the ANC. There doesn't seem to be any consequences to poor performance. There are, however, consequences to the kids suffering with this ineptitude though (http://mg.co.za/article/2013-04-17-sas-maths-science-education-ranked-second-last-in-world).

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Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Well, actually:


I think it's more over service delivery, though. It's easier to riot because you have no drinking water and may soon die of thirst than because your kids' education sucks.

But yeah, education is hella depressing, not least of all because we spend a shitload of our GDP on it. A lot of it can be blamed on Apartheid, since education for black people was pretty lovely then. But the fact that it hasn't gotten better despite 20 years of money being sunk into it suggests that corruption and inefficiency are playing a role.

Actually a couple of high profile black intellectuals have come out saying that things are so bad now that the education being received by most poor black children is worse than it was under the apartheid bantu education system (http://www.citypress.co.za/news/bantu-education-was-better/).

The relentless push to increase matric pass rates has meant that schools force children out before they get to matric and fail, less than half of children who start grade 1 finish school (there are also other socio-economic factors that influence this). The standards are also so bad that only 11% pass maths with more than 40% (http://www.ngopulse.org/article/education-south-africa-where-did-it-go-wrong).

They had a whole province's text book supply cocked for more than half the year, to the point where they were taken to court repeatedly (http://www.bdlive.co.za/articles/2012/07/17/limpopo-at-fault-for-textbook-supply-fiasco). And the minister of education still has her job.

This affects the poor disproportionately because wealthier parents simply send their children to private schools. The tragedy is that this leaves another generation behind who have no realistic way to join the economy.

Spamtheman fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Mar 25, 2014

Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Yeah ... that article's pretty terrible. The particular "black intellectual" they cite is a lecturer in business, not education, and makes some obviously false statements (like the claim that South Africa's education is the worst in Africa). The other expert they cite is professional Apartheid apologist Pik loving Botha.

Note, when I say obviously false, I have read that WEF report cited in the Mail and Guardian story in your last post, the one that claims that maths and science education in South Africa is the second worst in the world. And guess what? It was a questionnaire, asking respondents (wealthy businesspeople, presumably) to rank their country's education. So for sure, South African businesspeople have the second-lowest opinion of their own country's maths and science education in the world, but that's almost certainly related more to the Gini coefficient than to any objective measure of the actual quality of that education. The PIRLS 2011 study, by contrast, seems to be an objective measure of literacy, which showed that things are bad, but not worst-in-the-world bad.

Also, "black people were better off under Apartheid" is a classical cryptoracist canard, which instantly sets off my BS detectors.

Bah, and I spent half an hour researching this, when Africacheck has done this already. They say pretty much the same things I did, just more expansively.


This is all pretty valid, though I would like to see statistics over time.

Not having read the report beforehand I assumed they had used some sort of actual analysis of objective quality. It seems they actually only measured the subjective impressions of members of several business organizations with a total of around 45 respondents. So not exactly the most thorough.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that Pik Botha should ever be listened to, however Rabelani Dagada is actually involved in education which at least entitles him to have an opinion on the subject. Mamphela Ramphele has also made the same claim and she was vice-chancellor of UCT previously (http://www.citypress.co.za/politics/apartheid-education-better-ramphele/).

That doesn't mean that they're right, just that things are bad enough that some are saying that the quality of the education received was better.

Finally saying people were better off under apartheid, isn't cryptoracist, it's flat out racist.

Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable
For those who had been following the Nkandla story there have been a few interesting developments. First JZ starts saying that he shouldn't owe anything since he didn't ask for any of it, in direct contrast to the remedial actions suggested in the public protector's report (http://mg.co.za/article/2014-03-31-zuma-on-nkandla-i-didnt-use-state-funds).

Then his response, which was due on the 2nd, has basically been to say that he will await the SIU (Special Investigative Unit, which reports to the presidency) investigation before making a full response, it should be done after the elections (http://mg.co.za/article/2014-04-02-zuma-to-comment-on-nkandla-report-once-siu-probe-is-done). In a completely innocent coincidence the SIU investigation into Nkandla was actually showing as completed on their website, luckily that error has been corrected.

It also seems the DA is pushing to have the benefit to his assets taxed, they reckon he may owe R16 million on the place (http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/04/04/sars-sets-sights-on-zuma-after-nkandla-report).

Spamtheman fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Apr 4, 2014

Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable
It's like a bad case of deja vu all over again. Between the project veritas stuff, using the national key points act (apartheid era security legislation) to try and cover up Nkandla, shooting protesters and mineworkers, the push for new secrecy laws and my personal favourite, rumours of a ministry of information (http://mg.co.za/article/2014-05-01-mac-the-mouth-to-oversee-zumas-legacy) it feels like watching and even more incompetent version of the old NP government.

It's like watching a kid you knew growing up whose father was a little too quick to with the corporal punishment having kids of his own and being just as bad a parent.

The hope is that the ANC sees enough of a drop in support in tomorrow's election that they realise they need to clean up their own act.

Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Thanks -- I'd checked that site about an hour ago and it wasn't live yet.

Only 1.2 million votes counted so far, so anything could still happen, but the DA results so far are looking pretty high. Like, they might actually be heading towards being a credible opposition party high. I wonder if that's just an urban bias in getting votes counted earlier, though.

E: Anyone care to prognosticate? Looking at results so far, I'd guess ANC around 60%, DA around 24-26%, EFF around 4-5%, NFP, IFP, COPE, FF+ and ACDP around 1-2% each.

The EFF's showing is fascinating -- they haven't got a stronghold anywhere, though they're bringing in about 10% of the vote in Limpopo (Malema's home turf) and only about 1.5% in the Western Cape. But their 4.6% vote so far is fairly evenly spread across the country. If nothing else it will liven up parliament to have a few actual hard line socialists sitting in it.

Also, while the DA will still only likely be sitting with around a quarter of the votes, that will make them the strongest national opposition party in the history of post-Apartheid South Africa (the runner-up being the NP in 1994 with 20% of the vote; arguably the DA are the continuation of the NP, of course). I'm not the biggest fan of the DA, but I am happy to see the country moving towards a more balanced party system.

Western Cape is already looking like it's going DA again with big gains all around the country, they may win a few previously ANC municipalities and the local ANC branches will lose their poo poo. They ANC should take a bit more than 60% of the vote, but it's probably not enough of a dip to see any kind of meaningful change on their part.

Agang are essentially chasing the same vote as the DA without having a track record so they'll be embarrassing. EFF will do well and COPE will suck even harder.

I'm not really sure that it's fair to say that the DA are the continuation of the NP. Back in the day the day they were the party that white liberals good vote for and feel good about being anti-apartheid without actually having to go into a township or mingle with the ANC. The old NP members of parliament actually all ended up defecting to the ANC, which tells you more about the ANC than anything. I'm not saying that they maybe haven't received a lot of votes because they are mostly white candidates but that has changed these days. I suspect that most of the people who would have made a vote that way are either dead, left the country cause of the swart gevaar (black threat) or now vote FF+, there are far too many women and people of colour in the DA these days for them to be happy.

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Spamtheman
May 30, 2005

Effer of the ineffable

Badger of Basra posted:

Good for them. ANC isn't for the workers anymore.

One thing I'm curious about, though. In the EU, economic decline has lead to increased support for right wing/anti-immigrant parties. In South Africa it seems like the right wing parties are all "white" parties, while almost every other party openly claims to support, at the very least, social democracy. Is there a chance (or danger, I guess) that a black, anti-immigrant party could form and be successful? Or a black right wing party?

Yeah we don't really have a traditional right wing/left wing split here. The DA is economically more liberal (traditionally a right wing position) and socially liberal. The ANC is far more of a proponent of typical Keynesian state intervention in the economy but there seems to be far more influence of religion, homophobia and xenophobia out of the ANC than the DA, although the party officially condemns the last two. Both however would be seen as insanely left wing through the lens of American politics.

The only ones who would fit the traditional right wing mould are truly fringe guys from the FF+ and further out to crazy town. They get so little of the vote though that eventually they'll die off.

There has been an increase in xenophobic attacks in the townships, but that is mostly black on black violence.

Our immigrant situation is a weird one here. We make it incredibly hard to get a work permit legally, I have several friends and an ex who've been through the process and it's rough. However our borders are quite porous making illegal immigration fairly simple so we end up with plenty of unskilled labour coming in but letting in skilled foreigners to replace people we lost during the brain drain is incredibly difficult.

It will be interesting to see what comes of NUMSA's party. With the SACP backing the ANC irrespective of how they treat workers there really isn't anyone who seems to represent them, the EFF is certainly trying to do the same. There's a pretty good article on it here http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-16-the-return-of-governments-iron-fist-and-numsas-mission-to-crush-it/#.U3XdD_mSyRM.

Spamtheman fucked around with this message at 10:47 on May 16, 2014

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