|
Tequila Sunrise posted:I know that Crimea is important to Russia because it gives them access to the Black Sea, how big of a factor do you think that is? They obviously have other naval access points, and Crimea is only like the 4th largest, but do you think that Russia could see it as a military threat if losing it became a real possibility? Nobody in Russia thought that the lease agreement on the Sevastopol base would be renewed. A move to Novorossiysk has been planned for ages now. Sure, staying in Sevastopol brings them a little closer West, but losing it prematurely is not a catastrophe.
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 21, 2024 15:33 |
|
|
Utjkju registered a month ago and has been posting in a completely different thread all this time. Also I don't recall an overthrow in Czechoslovakia that disenfranchised ethnic Germans.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 04:40
|
|
|
But is there a party currently in power in the US that is pushing for racial purity in government, education, etc? Because Svoboda is (ironically), and boy would that not fly in a modern democracy.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 05:27
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:Although I think it's ridiculous to have to defend the notion that these are Russian forces, here's a an amateur analysis of some of their equipment. Military service is mandatory in Russia and the Ukraine. Young men with military training and military tattoos are not hard to come by.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 06:34
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. ВДВ is the paratrooper forces. VDV day is when the former VDV servicemen come out and celebrate. There are hundreds of drunken assholes from VDV swimming in fountains and harassing pedestrians in every city, and those are just the drunken assholes. Plenty of them are available for hire.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2014 06:51
|
|
|
utjkju posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256py8v6ZW4 - Here Tatars from Crimea told them opinion. Do you think that they say lies? Translation: Speaker: We are old enough to remember the first Orange Revolution, how they came to power, how those that are now behind the Maidan came to power. Not through elections, through trickery. They spent their 4-5 years in power, did nothing and left. Now they vie for power again, and they don't have another way to do it. With the same Maidan tactics, even worse now, with shooting, with firebombing, they come again. They cannot win normal elections, how do you say it, democratically, they cannot do it. The technology that they have, that they use for power, it is unsatisfactory to me. They claim their system is better, but that is difficult to believe, since they spent 5 years in power and did nothing. What did they do? someone else: It's hard to believe. Speaker: You are all adults here. You lived when they were in power. I reminded you 100 times, buckwheat alone rose in price tenfold. I'm not talking about sugar and other food. They claim child care was cheap. Nothing was cheap. They can't do anything for us. As soon as something started boiling in this empty and perforated pot that they left the Ukraine, as soon as the people try to cook, as soon as something started out, they are at it again, so the people don't end up with anything. Those are the enemies of the people, right there. In any other country, they would be executed. In France, in Germany, these would be executed, regardless of all European values. In France, their heads would be chopped off, their guillotine is still up. someone else: America has the electric chair. Speaker: Yes! And they teach us how to live and how to be and what to do and what we can't do. Some teachers.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2014 04:05
|
|
|
Tankus posted:The Orange revolution wasn't beneficial to almost anyone because it just replaced the people involved without a complete restructuring. Alternatively, I also didn't hear any praise and joy that the Russian liberators are there to save them. But I can totally see why they have little faith in the current revolution helping out. Its totally undecided as to where things are going now but hopefully stability can return and progress can be made. Is this "revolution" restructuring anything? More power is in the hands of the oligarchs than ever. How is that supposed to benefit the common man, especially after all the austerity measures proposed in order to qualify for European credit?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
waitwhatno posted:I don't think they are. And do you think the interests of the armed men, that captured the Crimean parliament and that are supported by the Russian army, are the interests of all the people of Crimea? Some armed men took power in Crimea. Some armed men took power in Kiev. Is one of these groups automatically more legitimate than the other?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2014 13:46
|
|
|
You don't believe that Crimea has an ad-hoc self defense force too? Is everyone in camouflage in Crimea a Russian soldier to you? Also, Kiev's self defense force is armed pretty nicely with looted police equipment, which, of course, hasn't been returned.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2014 14:40
|
|
|
Tankus posted:how can you honestly say that APCs and choppers are "ad-hoc" for a self defense force? Are you really so delusional? Of course everyone in camo isn't part of this group, and I fully understand that people there want to organize for whatever purpose. But I don't understand how you can group in the Russian occupation forces with them. Civilians just don't have access to the type of hardware present in Crimea. The APCs and choppers aren't. Just as not everyone in camouflage is Russian, not everyone in camouflage is Ukrainian. Sure, there are lots of pictures. Videos, even. Here you go, and that was from literally seconds of searching. Just because it's not on Western media doesn't mean it doesn't exist. waitwhatno posted:I think we had a misunderstanding, I was talking about the Crimean parliament specifically. They are the ones that are making all these controversial decisions. Oh, ready to step down, are they? Is that why they're appointing oligarchs for governors left and right? The Maidan crew isn't going anywhere, elections or no.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2014 15:12
|
|
|
Seeing how Western media generally shat all over any pro-Russian sentiment in the country, I can understand them.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
The Crimean defense forces are unilaterally against the Kiev government. The Donbass has a few for and a few against. I don't think that any self defense force claimed loyalty to Russia specifically.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2014 02:05
|
|
|
http://www.interfax.ru/364335 Simferopol, March 13th. INTERFAX Ukrainian soldiers that refuse to swear loyalty to the people of Crimea begin leaving the peninsula, said first vice-premier of Crimea, Rustav Temirgaliev. "The majority of the military stationed in Crimea is on the side of the self-defense force. Those singular servicemen, largely from Western areas, including sailors, that did not swear loyalty to the people of Crimea have already started leaving the territory of the peninsula. We provide a free exit without weapons from the territory of Crimea" - Temirgaliev said. He explained that the first group was already delivered to Armyansk, on the Ukraine-Crimean border. Meanwhile, several tank units agreed to swear loyalty to Crimea. "Crimean self-defense forces took over tank units, which have T-80UD tanks. The personnel of those units stated their readiness to serve the people of Crimea. Now we have armoured forces." - Temirgaliev said.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
Mortabis posted:Do you seriously believe these "defense forces" are anything other than Russian astroturf at best? (if not the more plausible explanation that they're just regular Russian soldiers) You can easily tell from looking at the self-defense forces who's the thinly veiled Russian or Russian-funded force (mostly matching camo, standardized firearms, no insignia) and the genuine ones (lots of banners, St George's ribbons everywhere, biggest mixmaster arsenal I've ever seen).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2014 04:15
|
|
|
A soldier of the Crimean self-defense force is also dead and two are wounded. I guess BBC didn't care enough to report that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2014 18:43
|
|
|
"I write in Russian, as I can't express this in English. Guys, Ukrainians, are you hosed in the head? Why the gently caress are you killing peaceful civilians? What kind of anti-terrorist operation is this? Here in the Russian Federation, we take your asylum seekers by the thousand. Some regions have a state of emergency because they cannot deal with the influx of refugees. We feed, heal, clothe your women and children here. We know the war is not their fault. What are you doing? And yes, I am an interested party. My father was born in the Ukraine, and I have a fuckton of family there. Cut the bullshit. I know how it is there without watching the news. Maidaned enough? I don't have polite words anymore."
|
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2014 05:10
|
|
|
Anti-Maidan uprisings were a common sight all the way back in November. Russian support has nothing to do with it. The South-East has been, historically, very pro-Russian.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
kapsas posted:And here lies the problem because it is not a falsehood. All the leadership and most of the fighters in Donbass are from Russia. They started to arrive in March and started the conflict by seizing local government buildings by force. Ukraine reacted, as in every government would have, by deploying their armed forces to stop this. And this is how the war started. And yet when the Maidan rioters seized government buildings, there was no war, and the president of the time was urged by the West to withdraw even riot police from the streets. kapsas posted:But they chose the opposite, border was left open and not only that, they supplied the boyeviks with old Soviet era weaponry. You do know that the Ukraine was a part of the USSR too, right? Warehouses of old military crap that no one was guarding too seriously were seized. If you look at what the rebels are using, it's museum grade stuff. quote:First of all, not taking prisoners is a warcrime. Secondly, boyeviks kill civilians also, although most of the civilian casualties come from incompetence and the fact that most fighting happens in towns and villages and not because someone is delibaretly killing off civilians. Pro-Kiev forces have repeatedly shelled areas known to be unoccupied by the rebels. Keep in mind that various government representatives repeatedly stated that the East isn't filled with people to them. The most popular term with the people of the West used to describe those loyal to the east is "Kolorad" (potato bug). Also both sides are taking prisoners, and there has been at least one exchange that I know about.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2014 14:09
|
|
|
kapsas posted:And? Take a look at RuNet right now. The amount of hatred of everything Ukrainian is quite astounding. Although this isnt a new development to be honest. Most russians dont consider ukrainians to be a nationality at all. But some weirdoes who speak broken russian. I'm neck-deep in RuNet. I don't see hatred towards the Ukrainians. I see hatred towards Western pawns and corrupt oligarchs, but not the common people. The most damning evidence for fascism isn't the Ukrainization, it's the people waving nazi flags, displaying nazi symbols, and worshipping war criminals. Also UN Human Rights Commission discovered no evidence that Russia is sending weapons. kapsas posted:I seriously doubt that Ukraine is banning Russian language books given that over half the population of Ukraine is russophone. Also , I am not Ukrainian. Not Russian language books, books published in Russia. Lord Windy posted:I don't think the rebels are making many friends by shooting down commercial airplanes. Russia is being viewed quite poorly at the moment due to the lack of sympathy Putin showed Australia, as well as the unanimous opinion that his government supplied the missiles that shot it down. The rebels stole two Buks without a guidance computer and a C&C system. It's pretty difficult to shoot down anything with one of those. Also the pro-Kiev forces have just launched a massive offensive in the direction of the crash site with the aim of cutting the LNR and DNR apart. You expect the rebels to just sit there and let it happen? It's not like they're laying the mines in a circle around the crash site. Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 31, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2014 14:39
|
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:There's no doubt that there are Fascists fighting on the side of the Ukrainians. There's also no doubt that Russia has per capita the most Neo-Nazis in the world. "Some bad stuff" is happening right now. Putin isn't doing anything, and a ton of people are pissed at him for that. What going in preemptively do you mean?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2014 14:53
|
|
|
I'm saying that what they are rumoured to have (nobody actually has given a straight answer to whether or not the rebels even have a Buk, the Ukrainians even claimed the rebels have no heavy AA capability at all) is only a piece of an anti-aircraft battery. The missile truck has very limited applications without additional equipment that isn't exactly small or easy to hide.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2014 15:14
|
|
|
Present posted:1. Putin funneling mercenaries/weapons into Ukraine. The UN has no evidence that Russia is funneling weapons. Do you? Also like I said, there was opposition to the Maidan in many areas of Eastern Ukraine. Were those all Putin mercenaries too?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
Present posted:
Those are Imperial Russian symbols.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2014 05:30
|
|
|
utjkju posted:West World and USA tell that Putin supports separatists. And West World and USA demand to end support. The interesting thing about the separatists is that they used to not be separatists. They used to support federalization, for greater autonomy of every region within a unified Ukraine. It was Poroshenko that was rabidly against the idea. Edit: for people that insist Russia is smuggling arms into the Ukraine: post-Soviet ammunition used in the conflict is Ukrainian in origin Ensign Expendable fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Aug 1, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2014 13:58
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 21, 2024 15:33 |
|
|
Ferdinand the Bull posted:Russia/ Soviet They're kind of vastly different. The opinions of the average person in Moscow Oblast and the average person in Galitsiya aren't very similar. Throw the Baltics into the mix, and there's really no way you can say "all Soviets/Imperial Russians were like this"
|
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2014 16:08
|
|