Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

utjkju posted:

http://news.vtomske.ru/news/56768.html - вот тут показано как в РФ большинство людей относится к фашистам. Любой человек, который борется с фашизмом - герой.
А на Украине мэры городов прославляют Гитлера.
Вот в том и разница.

I was born in Kiev, now live in Canada. All of my family except for my parents still live in Ukraine. I'm following the events there closely. I watch Ukrainian news and Russian news and read news articles on the internet. I want to tell you that the Russian media is lying to you. There are no 'karateli,' Ukrainian soldiers are not nailing kids to wooden planks, Ukrainians are not worshiping Hitler, etc.

The "uprising" in these two regions is a direct result of:

1. Putin funneling mercenaries/weapons into Ukraine.
2. Scaring the native populace with fake news that he controls on Russian channels.

Moi slova vradle chtoto pomenyayet v vashem mirovosrenii, no I dumayu chto let tak cherez desyat, kogda vlast pomenayetsa(ESLI one pomenayetsa), i vse viydet naruzhu, vam budet ochen stidno za vashu stranu.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 16:42

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 23:23

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

^ lmao why does Romania have beef with Ukraine?

EDIT - after watching the Kherson Governor video going to quote this comment from youtube comment:

quote:

Некорректно написанный комментарий к видео.
+ Неспособность оратора грамотно и четко излагать свои мысли, правильно делать логическое ударение...
И вот вам результат.. Теряется логическая связь в его речи... А люди, выхватив лишь обрывки из речи, подняли крик, чем еще больше начали сбивать чудо-оратора...

Пробую дословно напечатать его речь русским языком (правда, читать ее тяжело, а перефразировать не буду, излагаю как есть):

�... Мы вспоминаем то, как люди боролись против агрессоров, какие пробовали захватить землю. И те агрессоры мотивировали свой захват не только желанием, и не столько желанием захватить чужие территории и поработить людей. Они так же выдвигали лозунг про якобы (дословно: "НАЧЕБТО") освобождение наций и народов, какие проживают на землях, какие собирался захватить Гитлер��

(Излишнее отступление, что и сыграло с Одарченко злую шутку. ЛЮДИ ПОТЕРЯЛИ СВЯЗЬ С ПРЕДЫДУЩЕЙ ЧАСТЬЮ, а ведь именно там осталось это логически важное �НАЧЕБТО� )

� ...Мы видим, что он прежде всего выдвигал лозунг освобождения людей от коммунистического ига, освобождения людей от тирана Сталина, освобождение людей от других ...�

(Здесь начинаются крики людей, ведь они уже потеряли связь и восприняли последующую часть выступления, как самостоятельную� )

�... это было первым мотивом для Гитлера. Движение на суверенную державу, когда он пытался захватить территорию. Друзья, однако, люди объединились в своем желании защищать свою родную страну. Защищать родную страну, и выступили единым фронтом, откинув агрессора ...�

Дальше стенографировать речь чудо-оратора не вижу смысла� Всё уже и так понятно.
Его логически важное "НАЧЕБТО", произнесенное, чтобы отметить лживость лозунгов Гитлера, уже не спасает... Люди, в общей массе, уже просто кричат: "Ганьба"... Так, просто кричат.
Уверена, Одарченко не хотел обидеть ветеранов, а девушка с малышом на руках, отреагировала на вторую часть речи, не связав ее с предыдущей, подзадоренная выкриками людей, понеслась "наводить справедливость".
Вот и вся нелепость ситуации.

utjkju posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SnGltuemRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPpKdLkSDf8
Это тоже русская пропаганда? Я теперь все ролики на диск заливаю, так как с ютуба вырезают ролики с подобными сценами. Тот ролик, где мер города Гитлера героем называл, удалили.

As for your videos, the first one says its a video of Ukrainian nazis attacking soviet vets, but then in the video they show a georgievskaya lentochka being burned so I think if anyone got attacked it's because of that and not because they were soviet vets. That's a big difference. So yes, thats propaganda.

There are a lot of youtube videos out there. Here's another one in russian http://censor.net.ua/video_news/296...hi_rossiyiskiyi

My favorite part is when she says "we (Russia) didn't start the war" when she realizes this interview is a big mistake.

Present fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jul 31, 2014

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 18:31

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

No he wasn't glorifying Hitler. That YouTube comment I posted explains it really well. He is just bad at giving a speech and the crowd he's speaking to is the worst audience for this kind of speech. If you listen to him you can hear him say NACHEBTO (про якобы) at around 40 sec into the speech.

In Ukraine, the ribbon of St George doesn't mean victory. It used to mean that, but not anymore. Wearing a St George ribbon now means you support Russian aggression.

Present fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jul 31, 2014

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 18:54

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

utjkju posted:

Логопеды учат детей расставлять акценты в устной речи до 5 класса. Это входит в обязательную школьную программу даже на Украине. После 11 класса все люди, которые получили аттестат зрелости, умеют правильно расставлять акценты. Перед выступлением любая речь отрабатывается, всегда. Такая ошибка была просто невозможна.

Господи, помоги мне. Георгиевская ленточка - это символ победы. Ее у нас бесплатно на день Победы раздают всем желающим. Этой лентой украшают цветы и клумбы в день Победы. Я про это писала в своей теме ко дню Победы.
Вы серьезно считаете, что старики решили показать, что поддерживают агрессию РФ на День Победы? Вы хоть сами понимаете, что пишите?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGYc8fsAuGk - тут открой мне правду, друг мой)

Vi ponimaete po ukrainski? Ya govoriu po russki i po ukrainski. Etot gubernator ne vosslavlal Gitlera v etoi rechi. Eto fakt. Ludi nachali krichat ili potomu chto oni ne ponyali chto on emeet vvidi, ili potomu chto im neponravilos kak on sravnivaet gitlerovskuyu germaniu s segodnyashnei rossiei.

And the ribbon of St George has been worn by separatists who fighting the Ukrainian army so yes, that's what it now means generally. Pro Russia, pro Soviet, anti west.

As for the video you posted I haven't heard of any bans, no. Here's a Russian Nazi video to match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmGP4jjBp1g

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 19:37

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

3peat posted:

Interesting stuff about Romania

Fucken CLAY dividing our two great nations :argh:

Anyway, the thing with that ribbon is that the Ukrainians who are anti corruption and anti Russian integration and so on had the national flag as a symbol of their beliefs and political leanings. The other, pro-Soviet, pro-Russia, pro-old ways Ukrainians adopted the ribbon of St George as a symbol of their unity. But fast forward a few months after the Maidan, and armed men, who may or may not be Russian soldiers, with that ribbon on their chests, are fighting the Ukrainian army. So yeah, the meaning of the ribbon changed drastically over the last new months, at least in Ukraine. It's like with the swastika. The swastika means one thing in Europe, but a totally different thing in India.

As to Russia funneling weapons/money/men into Ukraine through the border, there's plenty of photos and videos of captured weapons and vehicles registered to the Russian military, passports/military IDs of Russian soldiers killed in action in Ukraine. There are photos of cadavers that are matched up with social media accounts of those soldiers. Here's a fresh article about it. It's in Russian but there are a lot of photos:

http://censor.net.ua/photo_news/296251/ukrainskie_voennoslujaschie_nahodyat_imennoe_rossiyiskoe_orujie_broshennoe_terroristami_presstsentr

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 23:21

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

^ The video you posted earlier is titled "Ukrainian Nazis attack war veterans." But from watching the video you can't tell who attacked who. The video starts recording after some fight is already in progress. And you can't even tell who those people are beating up. So how can you say that this is a video of Ukrainians attacking war veterans?

Did the Ukrainian nationalists start the fight? Did the pro-Russian protesters? We don't know. The video doesn't show it. All it shows is a small fight already in progress, and then a bunch of old ladies and kids being bussed out.

What I personally think happened is the two sides started getting physical and a fight broke out. The pro-west side got the upper hand and the young pro-Russian protesters ran off, leaving the seniors. Then the police stepped in and escorted the old people out in buses.

As far as nazi marches go, the Ukrainian one you posted sucked big time. 30 of kids in traditional clothing carrying flags? Lame. This is how you do a nazi march:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP2o13mxRpo

Look at those red, black, and white flags and swastika derivatives carried by thousands of people. Hitler would have been so proud.

Present fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Aug 1, 2014

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 04:53

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

Some of them, sure, but if you fast forward a bit you'll see the real deal.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 05:37

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

I posted this in the Debate Disco thread, so going to quote it here too for perspective:

quote:

For anyone reading this thread, you may be wondering what exactly the average Russian believes is happening in this conflict. Well, I've been watching their news and political talk shows, and reading their newspapers, so I'm going to tell you.

Maidan was financed and curated by the West. Western Powers funneled money, weapons and other aid to Ukrainian nazis, and encouraged them to go hog wild. Specifically, Ukrainian nazis believe that everything about Ukraine's Soviet past is a terrible thing that must be destroyed or otherwise stamped out, including Ukraine's relations with Russia and the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine. During Maidan, there was ethnic cleansing happening all over the western part of Ukraine. Ukrainian Nazis were killing ethnic Russians. Dragging them out of their homes and executing them right in the street. The Maidan protesters? All nazis, all hundreds of thousands of them.

Yanukovich was a good president, a people's resident, and the evidence of his corruption is completely fabricated by the Western Powers, which in fact currently control all of Ukraine. The current Ukrainian President and his entourage are all Western puppets.

While Maidan is happening and nazis are murdering ethnic Russians in Western Ukraine, the eastern and southern regions of the country start to wake up. Crimean citizens band together to prevent ethnic cleansing of their peninsula. They go and buy uniforms and arms at military surplus stores and take over Crimea. There's then a completely legit and transparent referendum where the vast majority people vote to join Russia. Russia gracefully accepts because it wants to prevent Ukraine from ethnically cleansing Crimea.

Meanwhile, there's a similar movement in eastern Ukraine. Patriots band together and also source uniforms, guns, tanks and take over territory to make sure they don't get ethnically cleansed by the tide of Ukrainian nazis sweeping closer and closer. At this point there's the Ukrainian army, who are fighting the eastern patriots. The Ukrainian army has no regard for civilian casualties and fires into civilians if it serves them to, and uses human shields. Ukrainian soldiers rape their female prisoners, torture and execute the captured patriots, confiscate people's property on a whim, and so on, so fourth. The army is followed by nazi squads. These nazi squads are ethnically cleansing the area the Ukrainian army conquers. Probably the most evil thing the Ukrainians do during their campaign is crucifying a little Russian boy on a wooden plank. A teary eyed refugee tells this story on the news, barely holding back her sobbing. The Ukrainian army is also firing over the border into Russian territory using artillery. There have been many casualties on the Russian side, but Russia is not firing back, not responding to the provocations.

There are several versions of what happened to the Malaysian Airlines plane. One is Ukrainian army trying to shoot down Putin's plane but getting the wrong plane. Another is Ukrainians shooting it down to frame Russia and the plucky separatists. Whatever actually happened, it was the Western powers that orchestrated the whole thing. There's no way the separatists could have shot it down because they either didn't have any BUKs or because there was nothing to gain by shooting a passenger liner down or because they couldn't have shot it down because it had some kind of device identifying it as a non-military plane and therefore the BUK wouldn't have been able to lock on it in the first place.

All of the evidence that Ukraine, USA and EU bring forward of Russia destabilizing Ukraine, funneling weapons, people, money into the country, and basically of any Russian involvement is a complete and total fabrication on the part of the Western Powers and their puppet Ukrainian state.

At this point Ukraine is a basically a a roving horde of bloodthirsty nazis controlled by the President and his entourage, who are in turn controlled by the Western Powers. Ultimately, the West wants to destroy Russia. But to legitimize their actions, the West wants to make it seem like Russia is the aggressor. So they hope to use the ethnic cleansing and the attacks on Russian territory to bait Russia into trying to save the ethnic Russian population of Ukraine. Once Russian troops cross the border into Ukraine to prevent this genocide, the West will have their casus belli to attack and destroy Russia. The current sanctions are part of the grand strategy to weaken and ultimately destroy Russia, which is currently the last bastion of freedom and democracy and justice left in the world. This is why the decadent/pro-gay/nazi West needs to wipe it off the map.

This is what the the average Russian believes is happening right now.

Thanks for reading.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 19:24

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 23:23

Present: Oct 28, 2011; by Shine

Utjkju, there are activists in Siberia that are fighting for federalization of Siberia. They are going to march on Aug 17 to show support for this cause. The organizers of the march are using exactly the same terms and language as Russian officials use when they are talking about the Donbass/Lugansk separatist republics. But Russian censors blocked/closed their Facebook/vKontakte pages. How do you feel about that?

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 17:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine