Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Lord Windy posted:

Spanish.

Finally recovered from losing the Armada, and are making another go at it.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2014 01:55

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 00:18

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

utjkju posted:

In the western Ukrain in the government there are people, who are Nazi. And many people in the western Ukrain are Nazi.
It is very dangerous for Russian people in Ukrain.
In the eastern part of Ukrain there are many Russian people. They know that Nazis of Ukrain are danger.
People from Crimea asked for help Russia. And Russia agreed. We help Crimea.
Crimea and other eastern parts of Ukrain don't recognize The New government from Kiev is legal.
And people from Crimea and people from other eastern pats of Ukrain organize them governments. The New government from Kiev don't recognize New government from Crimea is legal. Also, The New government from Kiev don't recognize governments from other eastern parts of Ukrain are legal( for example: Donetsk).
All governments from Ukrain can be legatimate, because The New government from Kiev was organized without impeachment of the old government of Ukrain. And a legally president of Ukrain is Yanukovich.
People from Eastern Ukrain organize them armies. If New government from Ukrain will not recognize New governments from Eastern Ukrain are legal, can be war between Western Ukrain and Eastern Ukrain.
But many people from Western Ukrain was not glad by events of The New government from Kiev. Because of these events people will be very poor.

Wow, how did you manage to register just in time to be able to talk about this?

And how is Putin, who is literally doing the exact same poo poo Hitler did pre-WWII, any better, just because he won't be targetting Ethnic Russians with his genocidal purges(which Russia has a history of committing already)

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 04:32

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Well, land grabs under the excuse of protecting ethic {Germans/Russians}, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Early_diplomatic_successes see the section about, you guessed it, Austria and Czechoslovakia, specifically the Sudetenland.

As far as ethnic purges, and Russian history with them, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge this is a good place to start. You combine that with a basic racism that is prevalent in Russia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia) and you can see that it would likely be acceptable to the populace again.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 04:54

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Earwicker posted:

Pretty much every major nation has ethnic genocide in it's history, this does not mean every action they commit is an imminent genocidal purge. This is the same logic as saying the US intervention in Libya was an attempt to eradicate the population of Berbers and Arabs living there and occupy their land because thats what we did to Native Americans.

And yes, the Germans used ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland as an excuse, but once again the situations are not the same. The relationship between the Sudetenland and Germany is not at all the same as the relationship between Crimea and Russia, and the new Ukrainian government really did pass laws that discriminated against ethnic Russians in Ukraine. The Sudetenland was never part of Germany, Crimea was part of Russia for several hundred years up until just a few decades ago.

The genocide issue is arguable, and I will admit as much. Putin has shown a significant enough amount of hate towards various populations(gays are the first to come to mind) to make me a slight bit worried.

And those discriminatory laws against Russian? All those did was establish Ukrainian as the legal language of the land. Getting pissed about that is like being pissed that Spanish is not a legal language in the US. It did not punish Russian speakers, it merely meant that legal documents and the like had to be in the Ukrainian language. The literal exact argument in the US context would be saying that Texas had to do all legal business in Spanish as well as English, since Texas was, at one time, part of Mexico :laffo:

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:08

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

utjkju posted:

In Russia very many ethnical groups have been living many centuries.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia) - it is false. In my town live many ethnical groups. And we respect traditions each other.

Pretty well cited for being false. I particularly like: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4969296.stm

I would almost think you were arguing that there was no racism in the US anymore. At least here hate crimes are a thing that is aggressively prosecuted(if not always successfully)

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:16

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Earwicker posted:

I'm not sure why you find that so absurd - if you replace Texas with New Mexico, that is the case. Because of the history of the state and the fact that the population includes a large number of Spanish speakers, Spanish has official status along with English. If a new government took power and then declared that English was the only official language, you can certainly bet that a lot of people would take that as discrimination against the Spanish speakers- and given the history of language politics in the US they'd probably be right.

Also, the reason that areas become part of a country kind of matters. Texas became independent from Mexico in a war. Crimea was given to Ukraine by the Soviet government, because the Soviet premier was himself Ukrainian, and somehow I suspect the people who actually lived in Crimea were consulted on that.

Having spent half my life in New Mexico, I can assure you that Spanish is not a legal language. Most of the population speaks it, but that doesn't mean legal business is conducted in it, or that street signs are printed in it(that last is kind of arguable, since most of the street names are in fact Spanish words or peoples names).

Edit: I stand corrected, slightly. Spanish DOES have a legal status, but it only in that certain legal documents are printed in a special New Mexican form of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexican_Spanish#Legal_status It has not been legal as such since 1949 however.

RFC2324 fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Mar 7, 2014

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:22

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Ensign Expendable posted:

But is there a party currently in power in the US that is pushing for racial purity in government, education, etc? Because Svoboda is (ironically), and boy would that not fly in a modern democracy.

Tea Party as far as I can tell. Not openly tho.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:28

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

utjkju posted:

They were not Russian soldiers, they were soldiers of Crimea (people from Crimea organized army of Crimea).

Who just happen to be wearing uniforms almost identical to russian uniforms with a patch missing.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:50

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Lord Windy posted:

Have you read any of the news coming from Al Jazerra, BBC, NY Times, etc? Are you worried the west are being mislead?

I think the better question is whether you are worried that YOU are being mislead only following domestic news sources that have to answer to the russian government.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shai-baitel/covering-russia-in-a-time_b_4698207.html

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 06:33

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

utjkju posted:

No, i do not read Al Jazerra, BBC, NY Times.

No, i am not worried about it, because i do not know about it.

So you just believe everything you are told?

I have a bridge in the state of Arizona I would like to sell you. Oceanfront property, only $10000 USD.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 07:02

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

jimma posted:

I can actually understand the ethnic-Russian Ukrainian's fears, and although I'm not nationalistic myself, I understand how emotionally powerful it can be. I hope that you can similarly understand how ethnic Ukrainians might be upset and frightened by the Kremlin's recent actions.

This. In any revolution there is danger to certain populations within the nation that is changing governments. This is one of the reasons that the UN exists, however, so that multiple nations can all watch what is going on to attempt to ensure all human rights are being properly protected. The UN has offered to come in and help the Ukraine with this, but Russia has unilaterally decided to do it themselves.

They did this while condemning the US for similar actions around the world, yet claim to be totally different, we are not imperialist like those darn Americans, nope, not us.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 16:49

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Snowdens Secret posted:

Hey utjkju I don't agree with your interpretation of events but this is Ask/Tell, not D&D, and you're closer to the action (or absence of it) than we are, please don't let these massive walls of text keep you from posting your perspective

Goons argue, its in our nature.

:justpost:

and all that.

We do appreciate reading all side tho, so you should keep with the posting.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 17:13

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

The Capitulator posted:

Except there's no reason to believe the uprising was truly 'popular' (i.e. there's a large silent majority especially in the East that disagrees with this). Nor is there any reason to believe the parliament, when making the decisions, was not under duress.

On another note, denying the dudes in pseudo-Russian uniforms in Crimea are not Russian is lunacy. However, the reaction of the 'west' to this escalation is beyond hypocritical and fraught with false premises. Lets face it, nobody in the US cares what happens to Ukraine, they just don't want Russian influence growing. Crimeans have the same right to determine whether they want to remain in this 'new' Ukraine as much as Scots & Kosovars. And I'm glad that in case they decide 'no', there will be a friendly force to help them uphold that decision.

I'm in the US and I actually care.

And its also good that said force is there to make sure they get to do what they want if they decide yes, amirite?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 17:23

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

What? Google translate does not help understand that, unless you are talking about how you are raping Ukraine.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 04:52

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Ensign Expendable posted:

"I write in Russian, as I can't express this in English.

Guys, Ukrainians, are you hosed in the head? Why the gently caress are you killing peaceful civilians? What kind of anti-terrorist operation is this?

Here in the Russian Federation, we take your asylum seekers by the thousand. Some regions have a state of emergency because they cannot deal with the influx of refugees. We feed, heal, clothe your women and children here. We know the war is not their fault. What are you doing?

And yes, I am an interested party. My father was born in the Ukraine, and I have a fuckton of family there. Cut the bullshit. I know how it is there without watching the news. Maidaned enough? I don't have polite words anymore."

Thanks, that makes way more sense than what I got.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 05:12

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Wait, I thought Russia was supposed to be a democratic, capitalist nation now.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2014 18:58

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 00:18

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

jimma posted:

Are you currently shirtless and/or riding a ~~horse~~bear?

FTFY

# ¿ Aug 3, 2014 16:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine