Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

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utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Is you protestor?

# ¿ Feb 20, 2014 12:44

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 12:41

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

pigdog posted:

Well, I can imagine them going after Berkut members when this is over:

- Policeman Ivanov, you're accused of shooting protester Sidorov in the head at the night of 18th of February. What sayeth thou?
- He was throwing Molotov cocktails and other deadly weapons at me while I was legally in the line of duty, the dude left of me had been shot in the neck and the guy right of me received third degree burns from molotov. My head was ringing from a cobblestone hit and thus I could have possibly missed. I claim self defense and regulations which say deadly force is authorized in case of attacks on the person of a policeman on duty, paragraph blah blah blah.
- True, but... You're an rear end in a top hat. We're gonna jail you anyway. Oh wait, we're now supposed to be a democratic country so we can't. Well poo poo, guess you're off the hook then.

Some people in Ukraine and Russia confuse democracy with anarchy

# ¿ Feb 21, 2014 08:26

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

In the western Ukrain in the government there are people, who are Nazi. And many people in the western Ukrain are Nazi.
It is very dangerous for Russian people in Ukrain.
In the eastern part of Ukrain there are many Russian people. They know that Nazis of Ukrain are danger.
People from Crimea asked for help Russia. And Russia agreed. We help Crimea.
Crimea and other eastern parts of Ukrain don't recognize The New government from Kiev is legal.
And people from Crimea and people from other eastern pats of Ukrain organize them governments. The New government from Kiev don't recognize New government from Crimea is legal. Also, The New government from Kiev don't recognize governments from other eastern parts of Ukrain are legal( for example: Donetsk).
All governments from Ukrain can be legatimate, because The New government from Kiev was organized without impeachment of the old government of Ukrain. And a legally president of Ukrain is Yanukovich.
People from Eastern Ukrain organize them armies. If New government from Ukrain will not recognize New governments from Eastern Ukrain are legal, can be war between Western Ukrain and Eastern Ukrain.
But many people from Western Ukrain was not glad by events of The New government from Kiev. Because of these events people will be very poor.

utjkju fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Mar 7, 2014

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 04:04

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

RFC2324 posted:

Wow, how did you manage to register just in time to be able to talk about this?

And how is Putin, who is literally doing the exact same poo poo Hitler did pre-WWII, any better, just because he won't be targetting Ethnic Russians with his genocidal purges(which Russia has a history of committing already)

I register because i learn English. I am Russian. And when I register i did not know about events from Ukrain.
I have relatives and friends from Ukraina. I love them.
Why do you think that Putin doing the exact same poo poo Hitler did pre-WWII? What are facts?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 04:45

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Earwicker posted:

Comparing the situation to what Germany did in the 30's doesn't really make sense considering the history of Crimea and Russia. That doesn't mean Putin's invasion is justified and yeah he's certainly an rear end in a top hat but implying that he's going to start some kind of genocidal purge in Ukraine is rather a huge stretch.

There was not Putin's invasion.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 04:53

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Rinkles posted:

Did the Crimeans ask for help before the Russian occupation?

Also, don't you think it's absurd the Russian government won't admit the occupying forces are Russian?

I agree with your last statement, "Because of these events people will be very poor."

There was not occupation. Yes, Crimeans asked for help Russia, because people from Crimea do not want New government from Kiev.
They organized government of Crimea.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 04:59

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

RFC2324 posted:

Well, land grabs under the excuse of protecting ethic {Germans/Russians}, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Early_diplomatic_successes see the section about, you guessed it, Austria and Czechoslovakia, specifically the Sudetenland.

As far as ethnic purges, and Russian history with them, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge this is a good place to start. You combine that with a basic racism that is prevalent in Russia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia) and you can see that it would likely be acceptable to the populace again.

In Russia very many ethnical groups have been living many centuries.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Russia) - it is false. In my town live many ethnical groups. And we respect traditions each other.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:10

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Rinkles posted:

Did the Crimeans ask for help before the Russian occupation?

Also, don't you think it's absurd the Russian government won't admit the occupying forces are Russian?

I agree with your last statement, "Because of these events people will be very poor."

All time in Crimea there are Russian troops: last year, three years ago...
But three years ago you did not tell about an occupation.
The new prime minster in Crimea was chosen by people from Crimea. Also, it was in Donetsk too. But the new prime minster in Donetsk was arrested by people from the western Ukrain.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:31

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Earwicker posted:

There's been a Russian base there yes, but there haven't been new loads of Russian soldiers surrounding the Ukrainian bases on the peninsula and shutting down airports, which is what happened last week.

They were not Russian soldiers, they were soldiers of Crimea (people from Crimea organized army of Crimea).

utjkju fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Mar 7, 2014

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:43

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Rinkles posted:

The spontaneously appearing forces of Crimea that happen to be significantly better armed than their Ukrainian counterparts and use Russian inventory.

I don't know about armament of these people. I know only that my friends from Ukrain told me.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 05:59

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Snowdens Secret posted:

utjkju, do you think Russians feel the Poles and Lithuanians are trying to influence the West Ukrainian government? Do you think their influence is stronger than Russia's?

I don't have information about it.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 06:01

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Rinkles posted:

Although I think it's ridiculous to have to defend the notion that these are Russian forces, here's a an amateur analysis of some of their equipment.

http://imgur.com/a/3DzA0/layout/blog

And evidence of Russian paratroopers being involved:

Never mind the absurdity of a well disciplined, excellently equipped Crimean armed force materializing out of thin air.

In Crimea live many people, who work in army. Also, many men of Ukrain and Russia have war education.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 06:37

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Rinkles posted:

Paratroopers are fairly elite units. But I'm not going to bother spending any more time convincing anyone of these soldiers' allegiance so I'm fine with whatever anyone may believe!

Though I'd suggest a bit more critical thinking utjkju.

Do you see Day OF ВДВ in Russia and in Ukrain?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 06:45

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Lord Windy posted:

Have you read any of the news coming from Al Jazerra, BBC, NY Times, etc? Are you worried the west are being mislead?

No, i do not read Al Jazerra, BBC, NY Times.

No, i am not worried about it, because i do not know about it.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 06:49

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

RFC2324 posted:

So you just believe everything you are told?

I believe my friends from Ukraina. I think, i don't have reasons that i will not believe my friends.

RFC2324 posted:

I have a bridge in the state of Arizona I would like to sell you. Oceanfront property, only $10000 USD.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 07:09

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

pigdog posted:

Your friends do not have good information, either. Crimea has (most?) of its Internet cut, and only transfers TV channels that are under Russian government control. It's astonishing you would believe thousands of well organized guys, wearing the latest Russian camouflage uniforms, wielding weapon models that are only issued to Russian troops, riding armored vehicles, heck who say they are from Russia, are anything but Russian troops minus the identification. I'm sorry but your country is at war, it started an occupation and is lying to you and everyone else, a lot.

Some my frriends live in Crimea. I think that thay have good information. :v:

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 08:25

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Lord Windy posted:

I ask because they contradict what you are saying and they all come from different sources, including one from the Middle East that isn't aligned with the west.

I don't read newspapers. I tell and write with people in internet or call them.
http://dok-zlo.livejournal.com/1416265.html - this man lives in Dnepropetrovsk.
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/ - this man lives in Crimea.
http://imbg.livejournal.com/464317.html - this man lives in Kiev.

utjkju fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Mar 7, 2014

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 08:33

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Smerdyakov posted:

http://youtu.be/ZwGd6vI-YsM

А это просто прекрасная небольшая шутка из Одессы.

who say they are from Russia

Тут мне понравилось.
- Бандеры, фашисты, гони эту прессу!!!- пожилой человек выразил свое отношение к Киевской власти.

But people from Odessa don't asked for help of Russia.
And people from Crimea asked for help of Russia.
Old Ukrain man told this (who say they are from Russia):
- In Kiev Nazi are located!

utjkju fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Mar 7, 2014

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 09:43

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

bulletsponge13 posted:

poo poo, I thought even Russia admitted they were Russian.
Seriously, I can understand the desire to ignore/exercise willful ignorance in the face of a traumatic event like a looming war, but holy poo poo.
Dudes are Russian. Its a lovely situation that I hope get resolved without a war kicking the poo poo out of the Ukraine. Stay safe goons!

I think it is incomprehension.
In Ukrain there are Russian troops all time. Because there is the contract between Ukrain and Russia. Government of Crimea asked for help Russia. But in Crimea there is army of Crimea (it is not Russian troops).
Troops of Crimea patrol all territory of Crimea. Russian troops patrol only objects, which government of Crimea designate.
But New government in Kiev don't recognized that Government of Crimea is legal. Therefore New government in Kiev tell that all events of government of Crimea are not legal. But there is one problem: people from Crimea think that New government in Kiev is not legal. Therefore they protect territories of Crimea from people, who think that New government in Kiev is legal.
Why do you think that it is an occupation? Do you think that The Government of Crimea is not legal? Or do you think that all troops in Crimea is only russian troops? Do You know that most troops of Old Ukrain from Crimea swear The Crimea?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 14:34

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

jimma posted:

I guess I shouldn't be amazed, since it's one of the bedrock elements of the human psyche (including my own), but I'm still gobsmacked whenever I'm presented with a stark example of people willfully rejecting reality and substituting their own version based on team/tribal/ethnic/political loyalty.

I'm talking about you, utjkju, and your wholehearted, skepticism-free endorsement of the Kremlin's talking points. Has it not occurred to you that your friends in Crimea might be giving you a distorted version of reality, because they are currently caught up in pro-Russian, anti-Ukrainian fervor? It has nothing to do with "trusting" them. I do not doubt that your friends would not lie to you. What I doubt is whether they are actually able to see the truth, much less admit it to themselves or to others, though the dense fog of nationalist passions that is swirling around these events.

Note that, as I indicated in my first paragraph above, this is not a condemnation of Russia (including the Crimeans who consider themselves Russians). This is a universal human behavior -- just look at the incredibly irrational, reality-denying ways in which Americans reacted to 9/11. But I believe that, in order for this to become a more peaceful, less unjust world, all of us must recognize our strong tendency to do this and try to behave differently. One key step towards this, I think, is the practice of empathy. Ask yourself how you would feel about all of this if you were ethnically & linguistically Ukrainian (one of the non-fascist ones, perhaps) living in Kiev. It might look like this: the country was ruled by a Russian-speaking corrupto-crat who looted the treasury to (among other things) build his own little Versailles, and did Putin's bidding on many important issues. After he was ousted in late February (by a popular uprising which forced him to flee Kiev, after which in the Ukrainian parliament voted to officially remove him from power), the Kremlin claimed (on exceedingly thin evidence) that ethnic Russians in Ukraine were in physical danger, and with absurdly awkward attempts at concealing their actions, deployed troops to Crimea to help facilitate their plan to annex it.

I can actually understand the ethnic-Russian Ukrainian's fears, and although I'm not nationalistic myself, I understand how emotionally powerful it can be. I hope that you can similarly understand how ethnic Ukrainians might be upset and frightened by the Kremlin's recent actions.

What Kremlin's recent actions you mean?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 16:53

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Danger of contract Ukrain with European Union

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeSCeswgKOs&t=1s

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 16:58

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Snowdens Secret posted:

Hey utjkju I don't agree with your interpretation of events but this is Ask/Tell, not D&D, and you're closer to the action (or absence of it) than we are, please don't let these massive walls of text keep you from posting your perspective

I think that each person can have his opinion. And time will show...
Russian people tell:"Spring will show who shitted and where"

It is all.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2014 17:21

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

What do you think about news:
Maidan ask for to organize The New goverment anew. (Kiev)
http://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/20140307195622.shtml
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1463031.html

# ¿ Mar 8, 2014 14:39

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Government of Ukrain is located in Kiev. Only people in Kiev will can organize The New goverment anew?

utjkju fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 8, 2014

# ¿ Mar 8, 2014 17:27

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Do it violate voting power (right to vote) of people from other parts of Ukrain, when the New government in Kiev was(or will be) organized?

# ¿ Mar 9, 2014 04:16

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Is The New government in Kiev legal, if most people can not vote?

# ¿ Mar 9, 2014 06:11

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Tankus posted:

The plan is to vote on the 16th to see the direction of things. I have tatar friends in the Crimea and they're really fearful of losing everything they have their whole lives for. After the deportations/purges under Stalin, the area has seen a rebounding of tatars, its actually the only ethnic group that is growing in strength. Its totally under represented in the press and they wont take this lying down. One of my good friends posted this as a status:

It is so sad seeing my parents packing documents and getting ready to leave if they have to. My dad says: "Photograph everything in the house, someday you can claim that it was ours"

Im a bit behind in terms of the news, i have a lot to catch up on, but some of the things posted in this thread are disheartening.

On a positive note, today was the 200th birthday of Ukraine's Shakespeare, Taras Shevchenko. The weather and atmosphere in Kiev was really great. Music, poetry and traditional dresses in the streets of Kiev is really refreshing. I suggest you guys check out his wiki and some of his work, he's probably the most revered Ukrainian in history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_Shevchenko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256py8v6ZW4 - Here Tatars from Crimea told them opinion. Do you think that they say lies?

utjkju fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 10, 2014

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 03:41

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Tankus posted:

The Orange revolution wasn't beneficial to almost anyone because it just replaced the people involved without a complete restructuring. Alternatively, I also didn't hear any praise and joy that the Russian liberators are there to save them. But I can totally see why they have little faith in the current revolution helping out. Its totally undecided as to where things are going now but hopefully stability can return and progress can be made.

On a side note, buckwheat went up in price 10 fold? This must have been temporary since its only 60 cents a kilo.

Do you recognize the fact: there are people from Ukraina, who think that the New Government in Kiev is not legal, but these people can not vote?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 10:48

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Tankus posted:

Its an interim-government, actual elections will be held at the end of May.

But who chose the interim-government? And why people from Crimea, Sevastopol, Donetsk, Kharkov can not choose other interim-government, if they did not recognize the interim-government in Kiev?

utjkju fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Mar 10, 2014

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 11:54

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Tankus posted:

Ukraine chose the interim government, It is made up of legitimately elected parliamentary officials from all regions of Ukraine. When Yano fled Ukraine in a panic, a lot of his party did as well. The interim-government is far from what Ukraine needs, but it is the only legitimate ruling body the country has at the moment. All positions of power were filled by those (chosen from the ELECTED parliament) who pledged to step down once actual elections were held. Any other "government" in Ukraine is false and non representative of the people, even in western regions like Lviv.

What is Ukraine, which chose interim government?
Crimea tatars, for example, did not choose interim government in Kiev. Crimea tatars is not Ukraina? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=256py8v6ZW4)
And can you show laws, which say that Crimea tatars must not choose an interim government, and only "Ukraina" can choose an interim government?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 12:30

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Lord Windy posted:

Can you show that Tartars are not allowed to vote in general elections? If the interim government is made up of elected politicians than it is indeed legitimate. There are elections in May, they can choose a new politician if they wish.

But why Tartars can not choose interim government, and people from Kiev can choose interim government? Is It the democracy and equal rights or is it the discrimination of rights of Tatars?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 12:45

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Lord Windy posted:

How is it discrimination? The government happens to be located in Kiev, so the politicians there formed it. These politicians likely came from all over Ukraine. If you mean why the current sitting president was ousted, than he got ousted because he annoyed enough people that they formed a massive protest he couldn't shift.

I don't think people went and did it because they thought "Lets go gently caress with some Tatars"

Do you want to tell that people from Maidan is politicans? Maidan chose the interim government.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 13:07

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Lord Windy posted:

Well the Maidan are the protestors that ousted the previous government but they aren't the actual government. The actual government is made up of democratically elected politicians who are acting as caretakers until May when elections will be held.

The politicians are likely the opposition, but this happens. In Australia the Governor General (our president) fired the government when it couldn't pass a budget and called an election. The opposition acted as a caretaker government until the election.

Why other people, who is not Maidan, can not organize other government? Because they don't have military capacity?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 13:23

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

mobby_6kl posted:

utjkju, why are you so concerned with voting? Is it suddenly a big thing in countries that are not Russia?

Do you live in Russia?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2014 16:14

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

jimma posted:

I don't, but I hear that every time there's been a revolution there, the resulting interim governments have failed to validate their existence by holding same-day national elections. Therefore the only legitimate government of Russia consists of the direct descendants of Ivan the Terrible, who should be located and return to Moscow at once to claim their birthright.

There are two situation:
1. A revolution, when most people of a country recognize a new government.
2 .A revolution, when people have different opinions about a new government. Then may be two situation:
a. People know about the military capacity of a new government. And people afraid it. And a internal conflict can not be.
b. Different groups of people have the military capacity. And a internal conflict can be.

At time a revolution the law is the military capacity. These people is a government, who have most military capacity. But in this situation all people in a country, who have the military capacity, can be at war with a new government of a revolution. And a group, who will have victory in a internal conflict, will be a government of country.
I have a opinion that people from Maidan must understand this.
Do people from Maidan understand this?

# ¿ Mar 11, 2014 03:44

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Lord Windy posted:

Even if they disagree with the new government or not, it's not like there is a long wait for the next election.

But why are you so gung ho for a war? In a normal democracy it would take a lot to go to a military conflict and a responsible military wouldn't fire on it's own citizens.

I is not so gung ho for a war.
Two month ago Russian people told people from Ukraina that a revolution is very dangerous. Today people from Ukraina want to migrate in Russia and other countries. Yesterday in one thread we, russian people, wrote about our cities, because people from Ukraine asked for help for choice of cities for the migration. People are afraid of a war. But these people don't like the policy of The new government in Kiev.

Crimea organized the army of Crimea.

http://blogs.channel4.com/lindsey-hilsum-on-international-affairs/bullets-potholes-birth-crimeas-army/3611

Yatsenuk talk about Crimea Tatars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rENedxIp7sM

Ukraina can have a internal conflict. It is a fact.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2014 10:52

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

mobby_6kl posted:

Do you live in Ukraine?

My grandmother and my friends from Ukraine.

waitwhatno posted:

Russian troops are are not there to stop instability but to support it, they are not peacekeeping forces diffusing the situation, they are making it worse.

A peacekeeping action would have been to disarm the armed 'militia' and restore the old elected Crimean parliament OR call for new parliament elections in Crimea. Russian troops didn't do that.

These are interests of Maidan. Are interests of Maidan it is interests of all people of Ukraina?

# ¿ Mar 11, 2014 11:06

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

waitwhatno posted:

I don't think they are. And do you think the interests of the armed men, that captured the Crimean parliament and that are supported by the Russian army, are the interests of all the people of Crimea?

I wrote my opinion. Crimea was not captured. Maidan say that Crimea was captured. But, for example, Crimea Tatars did not say that they was captured.
My friend from Crimea did not say that Crimea was captured.
Why i have to believe people from Maidan? And why i must not believe my friend and Crimea Tatars, people from Donetsk, people from Kharkov?

# ¿ Mar 11, 2014 13:21

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

Tankus posted:

how can you honestly say that APCs and choppers are "ad-hoc" for a self defense force? Are you really so delusional? Of course everyone in camo isn't part of this group, and I fully understand that people there want to organize for whatever purpose. But I don't understand how you can group in the Russian occupation forces with them. Civilians just don't have access to the type of hardware present in Crimea.

Kiev is "pretty well armed" with what? There must be tons of pictures of these guerrilla fighters armed with stolen automatic weapons since ANYONE can go to Maidan and photograph/document anything they want.

The list of mercantile military companies in Ukraina.

http://airsoft.ua/entry.php?b=214

And what do you know about lease and sale of military equipment?

# ¿ Mar 11, 2014 15:37

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 12:41

utjkju: Feb 3, 2014; I told it: "leave" But To me answered: "rrrrrrrrrrrr".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPpKdLkSDf8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7omRYNqM3vM

What is happening?

# ¿ May 10, 2014 07:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask me about the revolution in Ukraine

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