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Yeah, but aliens don't count.
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Feb 16, 2024 16:35
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An alien who's also an ultrapowerful, utterly irredeemable god that had turned all of Earth into a charnel house, defeated absolutely everyone else, and where the only weapon effective against it was in bullet form. He does acknowledge, prior to that page, this it's a "just this once" exception, and of all times, this would probably be it. He also pays a suitable price by being hit by the Omega Sanction and having to slowly claw his way back over multiple lifetimes. Probably also appreciated the irony in being able to turn the weapon of the claimed architect of all misery back on him.
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Feb 16, 2024 16:43
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Glagha posted:Did Batman just win by just shooting someone with a gun Batman "dies" in the next panel and Darkseid goes on for another issue or two. So, good work. 
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Feb 16, 2024 16:52
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I never did like that Bats defeated Darkseid by shooting him with the Platonic form of a bullet. Smells like Morrison being too clever by half, and I say that as a Morrison stan. He was much more creative during his run on JLA during Rock of Ages when, during an alternate future timeline where Darkseid has turned the Earth into an Anti-Life zombie factory, the remnants of the Justice League throw everything they can at him and nothing can penetrate his force field, Batman gets zapped by Omega Beams, but they finally beat him by Ray Palmer riding Speedy's arrow at Darkseid's face -- Ray, being a good physicist realizes that Darkseid can see through his force field, shrinks himself to the size of a photon, rides the stream through the optic nerve, muses, "Four lobes...which one first?" before fatally shrinking segments of Darkseid's brain. That's the cleverness I want from Morrison.
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Feb 16, 2024 16:55
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I thought Ray put a bomb in there.
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Feb 16, 2024 17:16
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Halloween Jack posted:I thought Ray put a bomb in there. Ray's fiddling with his belt (the source of his shrinking powers) and a beam comes out, hitting his brain. Then in the next couple of panels we see (hear?) Darkseid speaking in slurred, nonsensical words. Ray's giving him the mother of all strokes. At least that's as I remember it -- it's been years since I've last read it, so I could be wrong. eta: when I got back into comics, Morrison's JLA was what I picked up in the comics store -- the two-parter with the Key taking over the JLA's HQ was the first -- and it blew my mind. Even Blue Superman wasn't a distraction. Needless to say, I was disappointed by most other titles I read in comparison. Admiralty Flag fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Feb 16, 2024 |
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Feb 16, 2024 17:24
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Oh, same here. I got back into comics in the early 00s and besides "classics" like Watchmen and TDKR, I loved Morrison's run on JLA.
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Feb 16, 2024 17:33
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I think Connor was the archer in that story.
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Feb 16, 2024 17:56
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Admiralty Flag posted:I never did like that Bats defeated Darkseid by shooting him with the Platonic form of a bullet. Smells like Morrison being too clever by half, and I say that as a Morrison stan. Is that where the whole fire Ant-man up Thanos's rear end thing came from or did people figure that out independently
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Feb 16, 2024 18:01
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Devils Avocado posted:I think Connor was the archer in that story.
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Feb 16, 2024 18:09
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Admiralty Flag posted:Ray's fiddling with his belt (the source of his shrinking powers) and a beam comes out, hitting his brain. Then in the next couple of panels we see (hear?) Darkseid speaking in slurred, nonsensical words. Ray's giving him the mother of all strokes. At least that's as I remember it -- it's been years since I've last read it, so I could be wrong.   
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Feb 16, 2024 18:15
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Ray Palmer posted:Flare arrow, Connor!
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Feb 16, 2024 18:24
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The Black Racer spotted
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Feb 16, 2024 18:42
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Flesh Forge posted:The Black Racer spotted Is that the guy...skiing through the air in the background?
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Feb 16, 2024 19:53
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Really kinda undermines the moment to have a guy on space skis just kinda float into the scene.
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Feb 16, 2024 20:05
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GrandpaPants posted:Really kinda undermines the moment to have a guy on space skis just kinda float into the scene. He's the guy narrating through the whole sequence, because he's the New Gods' version of Death.
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Feb 16, 2024 20:21
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Morrison's JLA run is good as it is, but for me, Porter's art is keeping it from being an all-timer like McGuiness comes along and does that Ultramarine story in JLA Classified and hoooo boy did I like that
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Feb 16, 2024 21:04
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The more I think about it, Morrison’s JLA run has been the standard by which I’ve judged superhero comics ever since it ended. It certainly holds up better than other so-called “widescreen” comics from that same time period.
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Feb 16, 2024 21:11
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Splint Chesthair posted:It certainly holds up better than other so-called “widescreen” comics from that same time period.
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Feb 16, 2024 21:50
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GrandpaPants posted:Really kinda undermines the moment to have a guy on space skis just kinda float into the scene. Yeah, I assume that Ant-Man(?) sacrificing himself to kill Invincible Space Vampire Thing(??) is meant to be an emotional climax but it is kind of undermined by Skis Guy. Although now I wondering if the very similar Skis Guy (Deathurge) who shows up in Marvel's GLA miniseries is a reference to this one (or vice versa).
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Feb 16, 2024 22:57
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Morrison's run is hit or miss for me but Earth 2 is a great story, I love the idea. The Justice Society tricks the JLA into swapping earths and they're stuck there for months. They try ti make the best of it but they keep failing because evil always triumphs there, while the JSA can't make any traction because good always wins on Earth 1 as an actual rule of physics. it's all very Morrison
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Feb 16, 2024 23:18
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ToxicFrog posted:Yeah, I assume that Ant-Man(?) sacrificing himself to kill Invincible Space Vampire Thing(??) is meant to be an emotional climax but it is kind of undermined by Skis Guy. "Ant-Man" is Ray Palmer, the Atom, who is like Ant-Man if he didn't have any of the baggage they do, and other than bug stuff their power sets tend to overlap almost 1:1. "Invincible Space Vampire Thing" is Darkseid, Lord of Evil, New God, The Tiger Force in Space, etc. etc. etc., basically Hyper-Mega-Super-Villain. Final Boss tier in everything he's in. "Skis Guy" is The Black Racer, who is basically the embodiment of death itself for the New Gods. He's narrating because Darkseid at this point has more or less managed to become untouchable far beyond his normal levels, and has been effectively unkillable. The Black Racer is like "Finally, my time has come to take this rear end in a top hat's soul, after all the poo poo he's done to cheat/ignore/fight off death". Though yeah, Jack Kirby created him as a dude on skis mostly because Jack Kirby does what Jack Kirby wants, and what Jack Kirby does is kill four Nazis, every time. So we put some respect on his creations.
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Feb 17, 2024 01:19
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I will not see The Black Racer disrespected like this. I wonder if Jack Kirby was trying to recapture the magic of his previous creation Silver Surfer?
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Feb 17, 2024 01:24
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Air Skwirl posted:I will not see The Black Racer disrespected like this. I wonder if Jack Kirby was trying to recapture the magic of his previous creation Silver Surfer? "Sometimes even Homer nods." Until refigured as a sinister character shrouded in darkness, all weird angles and jagged corners, the Black Racer looked goofy as hell, like some ski bum who got on the wrong connection at the airport on the way to Vail. Even with the Howard Porter art, the Black Racer looks sufficiently weird in Rock of Ages, usually because we only see (e.g.) the front part of his skis poking into frame, his presence at a strange angle, etc. And of course Morrison's narration of the scenes, coming from BR themself, carries the character. Morrison also made use of him in Final Crisis (he may have been lurking in some of the Darkseid/Batman panels, but his main appearance was the three Flashes trying to outrace him -- with a cool ending).
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Feb 17, 2024 02:49
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Sorry for reaching back in time, but I've just been catching up, and I'm surprised that during the "How strong is J'onn" chat back in December, no one posted this page, giving it from the Kansan's mouth:
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Feb 17, 2024 03:10
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What people keep forgetting because comic book writers honestly kind of suck at portraying it is that J'onn can do everything Superman can do, on top of unrestricted shapeshifting, density control, and psychic powers to put Professor X to shame. The only thing keeping him from being an unholy terror are that he's a good person by nature and fire is common as dirt.
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Feb 17, 2024 03:22
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Uthor posted:Batman "dies" in the next panel and Darkseid goes on for another issue or two. They need to kill him like five times in Final Crisis, each more impossible and one-time-only exceptional than the last.
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Feb 17, 2024 06:46
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The problem about trying to sell J’onn as more powerful than Superman is that we all know that if they were going to fight, Superman would win because Superman is much, much more popular and important
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Feb 17, 2024 07:06
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I also just don't like having J'onn (or anyone) having equal or greater strength than Superman. Superman is most interesting when his conflicts are other than "who can punch stronger" and J'onn being a psychic shape shifter should be a big enough problem.
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Feb 17, 2024 07:25
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But if no one can match him for strength then that opens the door to bad writers going down the easy "hurr, just keep punching until problem solved" route.
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Feb 17, 2024 08:09
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Malachite_Dragon posted:But if no one can match him for strength then that opens the door to bad writers going down the easy "hurr, just keep punching until problem solved" route. That just means they are writing a different bad story than they would if there was someone stronger than Superman.
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Feb 17, 2024 08:14
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Air Skwirl posted:That just means they are writing a different bad story than they would if there was someone stronger than Superman. So someone being stronger than superman isnt the problem then.
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Feb 17, 2024 10:25
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SiKboy posted:So someone being stronger than superman isnt the problem then. I just don't like it thematically. It's not an interesting thing to me for a Superman book, there's tons of other characters that are super strong but have to fight someone stronger you can tell those stories about.
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Feb 17, 2024 10:30
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Honestly I think when you feel the need to make Superman the absolute paragon in every single aspect and trait he has, you really weaken the character overall. It's easy to be the perfect moral example and righteous defender when you have effective omnipotence and no meaningful wants or needs. The more human you can make Superman, the better a character he tends to be. That includes having things he's simply not the best at, and challenges that can't be overcome by just tanking them until they stop being challenges.
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Feb 17, 2024 10:45
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I feel like J'onn's "incredibly powerful but lonesome, noble fish out of water" schtick works way better for Silver Surfer probably partially because of the much stronger design As for Superman, I liked the period in the 00s where they depicted the upper limits of his powers as having a cost. Like he can be faster than the Flash or punch through offbrand Galactus' brainpan but he has to fly into the sun and fry his body out for the next few days as a result. I always thought there'd be an interesting story to explore where if he starts pushing himself harder and harder he feels his humanity start to slip due because he's acting so far removed from human levels of perception. That'd make a much better explanation for "Why isn't he constantly operating at unimaginable levels to minimize harm in the world" than the current reason, which I believe boils down to "work life balance, baby"
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Feb 17, 2024 10:55
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OnimaruXLR posted:I always thought there'd be an interesting story to explore where if he starts pushing himself harder and harder he feels his humanity start to slip due because he's acting so far removed from human levels of perception. That'd make a much better explanation for "Why isn't he constantly operating at unimaginable levels to minimize harm in the world" than the current reason, which I believe boils down to "work life balance, baby" Iceman briefly had this going on, it's a bit unsettling to do this to a beloved character
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Feb 17, 2024 11:10
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OnimaruXLR posted:I feel like J'onn's "incredibly powerful but lonesome, noble fish out of water" schtick works way better for Silver Surfer I think it's the first issue of Astro City that follows a day in the life of its Superman analog and he's basically doing what you describe. Every moment he isn't in his Clark Kent style alter ego he's racing around the globe saving everyone he possibly can, and then getting maybe three hours sleep before he gets up and does it again. I always assumed Supes was doing the same kind of thing.
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Feb 17, 2024 11:27
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The implications of Superman’s powers and him having a family life mean that he spends a decent amount of time allowing people to die horrible deaths and that’s why you don’t think about the implications of capeshit too much
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Feb 17, 2024 11:32
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You can’t sacrifice your life to save people 24/7 your allowed to be a person
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Feb 17, 2024 11:56
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CharlestheHammer posted:You can’t sacrifice your life to save people 24/7 your allowed to be a person 
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Feb 17, 2024 16:04
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