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Die Laughing posted:Add Mar-vell and Jean Grey to the better off dead pile. Not that they're not good characters, they just have two of the biggest deaths in comics. Main universe Logan can probably stay dead as long as we have Old Man Logan, and Laura as Wolverine. We're not really missing anything that the original Wolverine brought to the table. The funny thing about Jean Grey is she's the only character who's got a decent excuse for coming back to life; she's called the Phoenix, after all. She's been dead for a really long time, too, hasn't she? (Not counting the All-New X-Men version.) Was the last time she died in Grant Morrison's run?
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May 16, 2016 03:55
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SonicRulez posted:Speaking of Cap, what is it like when Magneto and Captain America interact? Surely Magneto is respectful to the man that punched Hitler in the teeth, but I've never seen it.  So, it's not dealt with with any kind of nuance, really, at least as far as Claremont goes. They address the fact that they've both got roots in WWII and move on.
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May 28, 2016 05:29
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Pastry of the Year posted:This got me thinking: how many Marvel-616 villains (I haven't read through Secret Wars yet Golden Age Namor was pretty much a villain, wasn't he? Though he's been a hero ever since then, and then retconned to be fighting the Nazis in the 40s.
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Sep 21, 2016 00:01
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) reformed and had it stick?
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I'd wager that since Power Pack had the trappings of a kids' title, there was less oversight of what was going on, enabling Simonson to get away with a lot. And there's a fairly long tradition of "for kids" products being actually incredibly hosed up, anyway.
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Feb 26, 2017 02:07
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Beachcomber posted:This is so much better than anything I had imagined. That Ms. Marvel issue is definitely one of the best done in one stories of recent years.
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Mar 5, 2017 12:57
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Sinners Sandwich posted:I doubt anyone cares but reading the 80s X-men chronologically, as soon as Chris Claremont leaves New Mutants, the new writer (Louise Jones) immediately tries to turn Empath. a Hellion with the power to controls emotions who is basically Grant Morrison's Emma Frost but a 14 year old boy who walks into the women's locker room to harass the female members, into a good guy who Magma is so in love with she drops the x-men to work with Emma Frost. It's been a while since I've read through New Mutants but I remember it being implied that Empath was either consciously or unconsciously manipulating Amara into falling for him. Except then they show up later in a fill-in written by Claremont where Amara meets Hercules, and I don't think he got the memo about that. It would be a bigger deal probably if anybody gave a poo poo about Amara. I barely remember anything about her except for the time she met Hercules and then she got crucified in the first issue of X-men I ever bought. Thanks, Chuck Austen!
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Mar 12, 2017 07:12
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The talk of cancellation in the Marvel thread got me thinking: what's the quickest a book has been cancelled by a major-ish publisher? I figure that because of the way printing a stuff works, the second issue is pretty close to complete by the time the first one ships, but has a #1 ever sold so poorly that they don't bother even printing the #2?
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Apr 19, 2017 09:29
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Sinners Sandwich posted:I've been reading the X-men through Marvel Unlimited and now entering the post Muir Island era. Things seem to be getting complicated with a lot of backstage stuff like the Image Exodus. Could someone give me a little primer on what things are going to be like both in story and outside stuff like Claremont/Lee creative differences and Talent stuff? Marvel Comics: The Untold Story gets into this a little, but mostly just the personalities involved, not like what effect it has on the storylines.
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May 24, 2017 07:53
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Magnetically induced slowed aging is actually one of Magneto's more plausible powers.
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Jun 30, 2017 00:26
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LadyPictureShow posted:None of them have been brought back to life, right? That Necrosha storyline was a temporary or fake resurrection thing, right? I think Stonewall was one of the guys who didn't stay alive after Necrosha. His wikipedia entry also had this gem: quote:In an attempt to lure the pro-mutant terrorist group known as The Resistants into a trap, Freedom Force staged a fake trial of an evil mutant. For the fake trial, Stonewall acted as one of the lawyers but he was a disaster since he was inspired by the TV series L.A. Law and issued an objection without any cause.
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Nov 21, 2017 12:46
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site posted:I've never really read any heroes for hire how does Danny Rand usually justify taking money from people for jobs when he's a billionaire, or does he just give it all to cage His name is literally Rand.
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Jun 25, 2018 23:22
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It depends a lot on what kind of relationship Banner and Hulk have, since that changes from time to time. It's possible that Marvel universe law has some precedent to establish whether two people in the same body are legally distinct people or not. This question is doubly uncomfortable because there's apparently only two lawyers who deal with superhuman stuff, so if Matt Murdock is knee deep in casework Jen Walters is gonna have to handle this one.
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Jun 27, 2018 13:49
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Edge & Christian posted:This is also why Wein's creation Wolverine (who had debuted awhile back as a Hulk adversary) ended up on the team. That's also apparently the reason that Wolverine is Canadian: so that he could eventually be on the eventual international team.
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Jul 24, 2018 01:44
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Edge & Christian posted:I'm no X-Men expert, but are you sure you're not mixing him up with one of his early henchmen Nanny and her sidekick Orphan Maker? I don't think so, or maybe he is partially mixing it up with Orphan Maker but not totally. I think the original idea for Sinister was that he was an adult physically (and maybe immortal?) but still like a 10 year old kid mentally. He was supposed to have grown up in the orphanage with Cyclops and grown to resent him there. You may have noticed that Mr. Sinister is a real poo poo name, because it was thought up by a little kid.
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Sep 27, 2018 23:37
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Android Blues posted:Then Claremont, who gave the franchise its second layer of definition, loved mining sci-fi concepts like telepathy for his stories, and as a result introduced several new telepathic characters while expanding on the nature and limitations of Jean and Xavier's powers. I think it's mostly a matter of the X-Men having been so thoroughly defined by a handful of very strong creative voices, all of whom thought the storytelling opportunities opened up by telepathy were cool. This is a big part of it, too. A huge number of the psychic characters were created and developed by Claremont. Karma, the Shadow King, Psylocke, Emma Frost, Rachel Summers, Madelyne Pryor (?), Proteus (?) I'm definitely forgetting some. And while he didn't create Jean Grey or Mastermind, he's definitely responsible for their most memorable stories and psychic moments.
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Oct 14, 2018 02:39
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I'd argue for X-Men having a pretty good batting average over the years. And yeah, Daredevil probably has the highest average quality of any long/running book.
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Mar 8, 2019 14:12
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Lurdiak posted:X-men has the worst batting average in all of comics. Definitely disagree on that one. Just going by the main books, let's say Uncanny and Adjective-less, you've got long unbtoken strings of quality comics. The Silver Age stuff is clearly not where Stan and Jack were putting most of their effort, sure. Then you get 16 years of Claremont, and even if it doesn't go out on a super high note, it's strong basically through to the end. The 90s are… spotty, but Nicaeza and (unfortunately) Lobdell do some pretty good work occasionally. I've not read much 90s past AoA but AFAIK it's pretty dire. But then you get Morrison's New X-Men, great Extinction/Utopia stuff a few years later, Mike Carey's long and weird Legacy run, Gillen's stellar Uncanny stuff, and then Bendis, which I find a lot more enjoyable than most people. It's only really since Secret Wars that the main books have gotten weak. Yeah, there's plenty of poo poo minis and books; Morrison and Chuck Austen are running at the exact same time. But there's also lots of hidden gems and weird little series that get saved from death by virtue of having an X in the title. And at least one of the two flagship books is usually worthwhile at any given moment.
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Mar 9, 2019 00:46
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Are there any examples of heroic characters permanently turning villainous? Going in the opposite direction there's too many examples to count, but I can't think of a single example of a good guy permanently going bad, or even for an extended amount of time (say, 10 years). Closest I can think of is Jason Todd, and I haven't been following DC stuff for a while but I think he's more of an antihero these days.
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Mar 10, 2019 13:03
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Good pulls, those. On a similar note to Maxwell Lord, there's Cameron Hodge, who turned out to be a villain pretty quickly but I'm pretty sure wasn't created to be.
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Mar 10, 2019 23:20
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Android Blues posted:Madelyne's a good example. She spent years being a protagonist and supporting cast member in X-Men comics before her heel turn. She even got healing powers and a codename ("Anodyne") in one of the annuals. Inferno is probably in my favorite stories of all time largely because of how it treats Madelyne. The Goblin Queen stuff could have been a barely-concealed middle finger to editorial jerking around with Claremont's creations, but instead it takes that anger and uses it to create an utterly compelling and utterly sympathetic villain. Madelyne has spent her whole life as a pawn in other people's games; can you blame her for wanting to burn the chessboard down? It's like if in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern reacted to the realization that they're just characters in a play by trying to kill the principal cast of Hamlet. #madelynewasright
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Mar 11, 2019 09:20
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radlum posted:What happend to the whole Decimation thing with the mutants? I remember specific characters getting it reversed (like Rictor or Magneto) and new mutants being born, but I can't remember if everyone who lost their powers got them back anyway. Dan Didio posted:I think it was implied that Hope gave at least some people back their powers too. I don't think Hope gave anybody their powers back, but pretty much everybody who lost their powers after M-Day has gotten them back in some way or another. Quicksilver had some Inhuman business done, Jubilee got her powers back when the phoenix seed cured her vampirism, Chamber was repowered with... Apocalypse' blood? That seems to ring a bell. The only mutants who have stayed depowered that I can think of are Dani Moonstar and Prodigy, and I think Prodigy still has access to all the things he learned while powered.
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Jul 26, 2019 13:47
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Random Stranger posted:But I really struggle to think of any times where he's interacted with Magneto. The two of them just move in different circles. I'm struggling to think of any time Magneto or Sabretooth have ever appeared in a story or scene together prior to Bunn's Uncanny X-Men stuff (and that's good Sabretooth, anyway).
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Sep 26, 2019 09:18
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In Japan, I'll see Marvel stuff (never DC that I can think of) very occasionally in bookstores or Spencer's Gifts-type stores. It's usually stuff directly connected to the movies that have come out, but stuff sticks around on the shelves forever; a couple of months ago I bought a translated copy of X-Men Season One with an ad for the First Class movie from like 2010. I don't venture in to comic shops often but at least in the bookstores, the western stuff is in a separate section from the manga.
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Feb 20, 2020 14:08
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Edge & Christian posted:The 1990s was when they really kicked Crossover Events into their probably best-known, least-liked form, with X-Men crossovers like X-Tinction Agenda and X-Cutioner's Song very explicitly taking over all of the books for months and not even pretending it's the book starring the title characters anymore. It seems like the reason you don't get those X-Tinction Agenda style ones anymore is that instead of hijacking the main books, there's a main event series and then the regular books tie into that to whatever degree the writers like/are cajoled into. It looks like the first one of those would have been House of M? There's a pretty big dearth of crossover stuff during Morrison/Austen/early Whedon X-men stuff, save for single book stuff like Exiles running into Mutant X Havok and stuff like that. Disassmbled was a little before that and that ran in the regular Avengers title.
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Apr 25, 2020 11:15
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Cornwind Evil posted:I don't know what to recommend, but I'm pretty sure this forum will NOT recommend "The Evil That Men Do", ie, DON'T read it. 1) Maybe medical standards were just a whole lot laxer back then? It might have been more appropriate for it to have been a very early miscarriage that passed largely unnoticed. 2) The wild Sentinels that attacked Genosha were absolutely colossal, if memory serves. So it was probably less hunting each mutant block to block and more just blasting the entire island to smithereens. Everybody there (except Kitty's dad) is going to be a target, so the Sentinels didn't have to identify each individual one.
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Jun 13, 2020 11:38
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There was a pre-Jubilation Lee Jubilee last time I went through Claremont I'm pretty sure.
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Apr 23, 2021 05:29
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Skwirl posted:Yeah, I'm hoping the upcoming Inferno event will redeem her in some way (really loving hate Marvel's trend of naming events exactly the same thing as a previous event, at least DC will give their events slightly different titles, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis Identity Crisis). You have loving Selene and Empath on that island and had Apocalypse, you can make some room for the Goblin Queen. On the topic of names, I kind of rationalized the upcoming crossover being called Inferno by thinking, well, at least it's the title of a book instead of a crossover. And then I went on the wiki to find out when it was starting and promptly realized that this is actually going to be Inferno Vol. 2, after the (rather good) Secret Wars Inferno. I don't think Madelyne Pryor really even requires redemption. The original event makes it pretty clear that she's been placed into an impossible position. She's lost her husband, her child, her identity, even her entire reason for being. What happens to her is just as much of a tragedy as what happens to Magik. I thought what Zeb Wells did with her in Hellions was really great--she just wanted somebody to recognize that she was real, that she existed, that she meant something. Angry Salami posted:The New Mutants/Ilyanna half of Inferno is a lot better than the Madelyne half - if nothing else, because it feels like a logical conclusion to Ilyanna's story, rather than an abrupt swerve to eliminate a character rendered superfluous by Jean's return. I know it wasn't part of the original plan, but honestly the slow build-up to Madelyne losing basically every part of her life really works. X-Factor starts in 1985 and Inferno doesn't start until 1988; she goes through a lot of poo poo in Uncanny during that period. The only bit that's truly sour is Cyclops immediately leaving Madelyne for Jean; there's no way to fit that in with the characters as we know them and it's best left ignored. IMPORTANT EDIT: I like Inferno a lot
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Sep 20, 2021 11:39
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:How old is she supposed to be, anyway? In the 90s when I was reading Ellis’ Excalibur, I got the sense that she was around 30, but now I’m reading the Dark Phoenix era of Claremont’s X-Men, and she’s 14-15. IIRC Kitty is explicitly either 12 or 13 and a half when she's first introduced (I remember the "and a half!" being said a lot). She celebrates her 15th birthday in an early issue of Excalibur, then she gets rapidly aged up to 18 near the end of the run because Warren Ellis thought she was much older than she was and put her in a relationship with Pete Wisdom. I have no idea how old she's supposed to be now, 25ish maybe? She's definitely not 30 though, because none of the X-Men are allowed to be 30.
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Oct 7, 2021 00:21
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site posted:ngl one kiss halfway through a so-far 24 issue run, with a person who is never seen again, feels, and i'm loathe to use the term, queer-baity In the specific case of Kitty, I'm kind of alright with it as basically legitimizing 40 odd years of writing behind the Comics Code. Outright stating that Mystique and Destiny were a couple and the Iceman thing make it seem like the X office at least is pretty onboard. But yeah, it does really need to go beyond a kiss with one character on one page to mean something.
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Oct 15, 2021 09:42
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It depends on how narrowly you want to define tie ins, but totaling up all the Secret Wars minis when Marvel canceled every book, it looks like there's around 210 issues, plus 10 for the Secret Wars series. That's not counting any of the leadup or finales of the regular books. Have to imagine 220 is gonna be hard to beat. Every single issue published for 6 months was a tie in basically.
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Nov 14, 2021 10:18
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Cornwind Evil posted:Okay, I have a question about the big "Stuff Of X" storyline that's been running the last few years. How exactly did it start? I think Xavier and Magneto are implied to have known about Moira since the publication gap between the 60s X-Men and Giant Size X-Men in 75; this is supposedly the reason that Magneto's character takes a turn under Claremont. They've both always known about Moira, but they're both stubborn men, and they believed that they could build a world for mutants through friendship or conquest, respectively. They both failed enough, presumably, that it drove them close enough to compromise. Something that Hickman has stressed in interviews is that while Moira is over 1000 years old, she's only lived each life once, and she's taken wildly different paths in each of them. So this life is the first time that she's roped in both Xavier and Magneto from the beginning, which means she doesn't have anything advance info into the future of this life. Similar things may have happened before, but Proteus, for example, was the product of a relationship she's never had before, so she couldn't have known for sure what would happen with Proteus. Additionally, Krakoa is a collaborative process between Moira, Xavier, Magneto, and others. I think Moira had the idea for a mutant nation and that it be built on Krakoa, but things like foreign policy and resurrections aren't part of her master plan, and she's actively opposed to bits of it, like involving Mr. Sinister (and who can blame her?). Cornwind Evil posted:It didn't replace the events we know with new ones, like Age of Apocolypse did? Officially they're prior versions of 616, not their own multiverses, but everybody involved has been pretty cognizant that in 10 or 20 years somebody will pick that scab and they'll just become regular alternate worlds. Re: the pod people thing, the current X-line hasn't shied away from showing the growing pains of Krakoa. I'd disagree pretty heavily with most characters as mutant supremacists, with the exception of characters who were already mutant supremacists like Magneto and Apocalypse. Krakoa is a state consisting of people who have been genocided multiple times and that has already been invaded on like a half dozen occasions. Most characters have the same opinion of humans as they did before, they're just not an extremely tiny minority vulnerable to extermination at the moment.
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Jan 27, 2022 11:48
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Skwirl posted:I'm guessing it's the ones that aren't straight white men. It hadn't even occurred to me that their "friend" was coming at it from that angle and now I feel stupid for replying.
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Jan 27, 2022 23:20
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Skwirl posted:Calling one of the most diverse writing teams on a family of books, who are all accomplished comics writers “sub literate“ is a bit of a clue. You can hate the comics and I won't give a poo poo, but that's some dog whistle poo poo. There are writers I really don't like reading, but I wouldn't use that term. Yeah that's on me. I kind of got it in my head that Comicsgate types probably liked Krakoa based on the reasoning of ethnostate = good and reading no further into it, but I forgot about the fact that it wasn't all written by cishet white dudes.
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Jan 28, 2022 04:49
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It is 99% likely it's just the 90s, but there was also a thing where certain appearances of Sabretooth were retconned to be an inferior clone version created by Mr. Sinister in connection to the whole Marauders thing, largely because certain people wondered why he could always beat Wolverine but got pwned by, say, Power Pack. I always hated 80s Sabretooth because his costume seemed incredibly gross to me. It's hard to put it into words, something about the color scheme plus the fabric texture just seemed disgusting.
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Aug 31, 2022 14:46
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Uthor posted:Is there a chronological list of the recent X-Men comics of as they came out? I'm trying to order mine, but constantly flipping to the back page and seeing only a dozen issues, mostly of titles I don't read, is super annoying. Wikipedia has lists for Dawn / Reign / Destiny, which probably have everything, I tried searching for lesser things like the Devil's Reign crossover and one-shots like Secret X-Men and they're all on there.
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Jan 6, 2023 18:54
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Air Skwirl posted:Episode 8 of Cerebrocast is about Bobby Drake, and if there's anyone who's going to tease out every single possible hint of Iceman being gay it's going to be that podcast. I might listen to it soon (I like Cerebrocast, but the episodes are sooooooo long. It's funnybecause that's refered to as a "Giant Size" episode at two and a half hours back in 2020, basically none of his episodes now are less than 3 hours and he just did 5 part series on Madelyn Pryde). I never listened to the Iceman episode but he's brought up the Iceman / Emma Frost body swap issue a number of times, specifically at the end where she yells at him that he'll never be able to live up to his full potential if he's lying to himself. Lobdell may be a shithead, but there's other social issues that were squashed by editorial that writers wanted to grapple with so I wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to write Iceman as gay in the 90s. Of the subject of gay subtext, does anybody remember the Angel: Revelations miniseries? I read it like maybe 10 years ago and remember very little about it, but I seem to recall a fair bit of homoerotic stuff in there. That might just be the general puberty metaphor and this cover, though.
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Nov 6, 2023 04:01
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Lobok posted:Has there ever been a mutant who did the opposite? Abandon their former name and truly adopt their "codename" as their actual name? Presumably Forge, since he doesn't even have a canon birth name.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:27
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Endless Mike posted:I forgot Kate got knuckle tattoos. I think most artists did, too, lol It was just a phase
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Mar 7, 2024 03:27
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