The BSS Q&A Thread: It's Time For Arkhamaniacs

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Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Waterhaul posted:

Originally Jean was supposed to survive the Dark Phoenix and have a normal life with Scott but editorial thought her charter was gone beyond saving for blowing up a planet as Phoenix so the story was changed to her dying.

Pretty close. Here's Jim Shooter's recollection.

Jim Shooter posted:

When I read the X-Men make-ready that included the scene in which Phoenix destroyed a Shi'ar starship, killing hundreds, and an inhabited planet, killing billions, curious, I asked Jim Salicrup to show me whatever else was done on the storyline. Because Claremont and Byrne were very efficient, on time and professional, the next several issues were well along. The climactic issue was still in the plot stage, I think. I think Byrne had not yet begun to pencil it. At any rate, I discovered that Chris (and John) had backed down from the idea of Phoenix becoming the X-Men's Doctor Doom. The plot indicated that Phoenix would somehow be mind-wiped and let go. Back to living at the Mansion, hanging around with Storm and company, sitting at the same table for lunch, etc.  

That, to me, would be like taking the German army away from from Hitler and letting him go back to governing Germany.  

Did I have a "moral" issue with that? Yes. More than that, it was a character issue. Would Storm sit comfortably at a dinner table with someone who had killed billions as if nothing had ever happened? Nah.  

I don't know whether most people grok this idea, but the Editor in Chief is charged with governing, managing and protecting all of the characters. It was my job to make sure the characters were in character, and I was the final word on what "in character" was. Not Chris, not John, not any freelancer. The company relied upon me to manage and protect the company's intellectual properties.  

Anyway....  

I told Chris that the ending proposed in his plot didn't work. It wasn't workable with the characters, and in fact was a totally lame cop-out, storywise. I demanded a different ending. Chris--enraged--asked me just what that might be. I suggested that Phoenix be sent to some super-security interstellar prison as punishment for her crimes. Chris said that the X-Men would never stop trying to rescue (?!) her and that the story would become a loop. I said that then he should come up with an ending.

I wasn't privy to Chris and John's conversations that night, but whatever.  

The next morning, Chris stormed into my office and said that there was only one answer--they'd have to kill Phoenix. I said fine.  

I don't think he expected me to say that, since killing characters just wasn't done in those days. Chris waffled a bit, but then I became insistent! She's dying. That's it.  

Chris left my office, obviously found a phone somewhere and, a few minutes later, I got a call from John that started with him asking me if I was insane.  

I insisted on the "solution." It was done--brilliantly, if reluctantly--by Chris and John. And that's was the issue that propelled the X-Men to the top for, what, two decades?  

That's the story. Check it with Salicrup. Actually, Chris would probably corroborate it, too, though he'd make it seem that he was smarter and that I was a doofus. I'm okay with that. Chris doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he accomplished. I'm proud to be the doofus who helped to enable it.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2014 21:42

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 14:20

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

CapnAndy posted:

No, you had it right. The mind-wipe was going to take away all her powers, and Scott and Jean would go off into the sunset.

This is correct; the point I was correcting was that it wasn't originally Shooter's idea, but that Claremont presented the idea of killing Phoenix to Shooter (probably not seriously, but he did) and Shooter seized on that as the solution.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2014 22:13

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Marvel was hugely disorganized prior to Shooter, to say the least, and there was a whole pecking order he upended. In addition, he held a lot of creators to tighter standards (some say in unfair or arbitrary ways) like the above Phoenix anecdote. He completely reorganized editorial, which left some editors unhappy with their positions. He revised the work-for-hire agreements to clarify that Marvel got all the rights to characters made for their comics, which pissed off a lot of creators, but conversely worked to make sure they got better pay and benefits. DC was in the middle of going through bankruptcy at the time, which also meant a lot of creators didn't have another ship to jump to when Shooter came on. He made the company a lot more professional but also exerted a lot more power over creators as a result. He got a reputation for being arrogant and controlling, but at the same time the structure he built for Marvel is largely identical to the one we have today. I think he did an amazing job given the circumstances even with his blunders in mind, but opinions vary.

You can read a lot more here and here.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2014 22:53

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

irlZaphod posted:

I've never seen a bad word said about Alonso.

He's overseen some controversial runs (Rawhide Kid, One More Day), but hasn't been directly involved in dirt that I'm aware of.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2014 00:05

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

irlZaphod posted:

I'm pretty sure Rawhide Kid was Bill Jemas' baby, and One More Day was Quesada.

All I'm saying is that he was editorial on those books. I'm not saying they're necessarily his fault or anything, but he was involved with them.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2014 12:01

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Shooter at least apologized for it, for what it's worth, but admits his recollection is dodgy.

Jim Shooter posted:

I found my copy of Avengers #200. I read it. I agree with the consensus, it�s heinous. But, I don�t remember much about how it got that way.

I am credited not only as Editor in Chief but as one of the co-plotters. However, I didn�t see anything in the book that jogged my memory. No bits that I remember suggesting. No corrections of the sort I might have made to a plot passed before me.

But I did see many things I would have had changed if I�d seen the plot. For instance, leaving aside the Ms. Marvel mess for the nonce: Iron Man thinks it�s okay for the weird, mysterious child to be given a �laser torch� and electronic equipment so he can build a machine. What?! As the massive machine is being assembled, no one bothers to question what it is or does. What?! Trouble ensues. No kidding, really? Good grief.

At that time, I didn�t approve plots. Editors did. I can think of no reason that plot would have been passed before me. I don�t remember participating in a plotting session. David Michelinie lived far away and seldom came to the office. He and Bob Layton plotted books together mostly over the phone, then Dave wrote them up and presented them to the editor. I don�t know to what extent George P�rez was involved. George often added bits and scenes, or made small changes to stories he was drawing, so possibly that is why he was given a plot credit. Usually writers didn�t mind George�s modifications because they were generally pretty good.

Generally, the first time I saw a book was when the finished pages were given to me to sign off on before they were sent to Chemical Color, the separators. There were exceptions, of course, books with which I was more involved. I don�t think this was one of them. But, possibly I made some suggestions that garnered me a �co-plotter� credit, and if so, what was I thinking?

And, I guess I signed off on this book.

I regret it.

But, in those days, in any case, the buck stopped at my desk. I take full responsibility. I screwed up. My judgment failed, or maybe I wasn�t paying enough attention. Sorry. Avengers #200 is a travesty.

Maybe outstanding editor and outstanding human being Jim Salicrup, who has occasionally honored this blog with his memories can lend some information about Avengers #200. If he says I participated, believe him. I don�t know.

A note: At the time, as I recall, David Michelinie and Chris Claremont were feuding, so that may have had something to do with this story. Ask Chris. Or Dave. Preferably both. Or Jim Salicrup.

Again, mea culpa. Sorry.

Shooter has defended his Hulk story where Bruce Banner gets threatened with rape at the Y by a pair of homosexual men as not being intended as homophobic, but YMMV. Most of the assertions for Marvel's ban on LBGT during Shooter go back to an interview titled "One Thin Dime an' Two Thick Pennies" from a fanzine called Thwack! However, I can't find any traces of it on the internet - anybody know where one might find a copy of that interview or fanzine?

# ¿ Mar 2, 2014 19:51

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

He claims the Hulk story was closely based on something that happened to a friend - I get the impression he means well, but is just clueless about the whole thing. The Comics Code Authority still banned homosexuality (phrased as "sexual abnormalities") until at least 1989, so his opinion on the matter at the time was likely moot.

Ed: I was correct now that I found it - the 1989 code does allow portrayals of homosexuality, but the 1971 version retained that ban up until then.

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 2, 2014

# ¿ Mar 2, 2014 23:01

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

TwoPair posted:

Something did happen. Daisy tried to have the Secret Avengers kill the head of AIM in a super secret black ops mission that backfired and then the UN kicked her out and put Hill back on top.

Having an 18-year old be the head of SHIELD plus be hard to distinguish from Maria Hill in most art feels like an idea that's fine to have canned quickly.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 04:49

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Originally in Sins Past that was going to be Peter and Gwen, and Peter was going to have his deadbeat kids show up. It was a really bad idea in any case, and that's the "compromise" that J. Michael Straczynski got from editorial.

It was the perfect match of bad writing and bad editing.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2014 23:59

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Four words:

"Created by Chris Claremont."

# ¿ Mar 11, 2014 15:15

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

BadAstronaut posted:

Carrying on with the Spider-Man stuff, I am thinking of buying Spider Island because the price is so good... but this isn't horribad like Big Time, is it?

https://www.comixology.com/Spider-Man-Spider-Island/digital-comic/34528

I liked it!... but if you didn't like Big Time, it's by the same author. General goon consensus seems to be really down on Dan Slott, but I don't know what other goons thought of Spider-Island. I think $4 is certainly a fair price for it.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2014 17:27

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

From what I can tell, it just seems like a fairly clear series of events; Kirkman was riding high on Invincible and Walking Dead when his freelancer contract with Marvel came to an end. He was invited to become one of the Image Partners, and since Image was much more profitable for him than his Marvel work, he jumped at it. Since he mainly worked at Marvel out of fandom at that point, there wasn't much reason for him to return. Whether or not Marvel wanted him to stay on, I dunno; stuff like Destroyer or Irredeemable Ant-Man didn't exactly burn up the sales charts, with his only major hit being Marvel Zombies.

He has since talked a bunch of poo poo about Marvel and basically been crazily inflammatory in that regard, since he's built his own boat and can burn all the bridges.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2014 17:14

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

StumblyWumbly posted:

Has he really been inflammatory? All I've heard is that he thought he'd make more money at Marvel, but he ended up doing much better with his own stuff and so he encourages other folks to do the same. Bendis and Kirkman even had a talk about it. It wasn't like Waid vs DC or anything.

Well, judge for yourself.

Word Balloon posted:

"When I went to Marvel, I though i was on the Bendis plan. I had done creator owned stuff it had gotten popular, and i was looking at how parallel our careers were..but then I realized Bendis ain't going anywhere...there is no 'Bendis Plan' ... I realized the books that i want to do at Marvel don't exist anymore. I want to do a run like Peter David had on Hulk or Walt Simonson's Thor...I wanna do an Amazing Spider-Man run that doesn't have to lead into the crossover or the side books... and there is no one who has the cache to say 'no' to major company events. Straczynski had to participate in events, and it did help the book's sales, but he couldn't say no to events...and instead of sitting around pouting about it, I left...and I'm not saying that marvel sucks now...they're doing what they need to do to sell books...

"I want everyone to understand, I'm not saying no one should aspire to write for Marvel and DC characters...I'm just saying that it shouldn't be the pinnacle of a comic book career...everyone who only does Marvel and DC books gets ushered out of this business eventually...There's no retirement plan in comics ...you write your Marvel or DC books and you're hot until you're not and then it's 'thanks for time, bye.' ...And if you're not saving your money the whole time your doing it, your kind of screwed...you've let your popularity die down...but if you do creator owned comics,that's your retirement plan...you think Mike Mignola is not going to be making money off Hellboy when he's 65? that's a retirement plan."

"I'm not saying crazy stuff...I'm not trying to burn a bridge...I hope this doesn't offend anyone there...I have friends at Marvel and DC...I talk to Dan DiDio and Joe Quesada, they're not doing a bad job, and I'm not trying to say bad things about their companies. I'm playing nice."

Comic Book Resources posted:

A fan asks if Kirkman has "bad blood" with Marvel. "I don't have bad blood with Marvel per se, aside from the fact that I think they're a poorly run company that is partially destroying the comic book industry," he answers. Kirkman says he think there are a lot of good people in the company, and they publish good material, but their upper management is "extremely short-sighted" with negative effects on the industry, and the fanbase Marvel caters to, which Kirkman counts himself among, "is not going to be around for a hundred years." "I always try to look at the long game," he says. Every time he's critical of Marvel, Kirkman says, it's because he loves them, and wishes they were doing a better job.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2014 18:24

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Kirkman also did Marvel Knights 2099, The Destroyer (which was actually really fun, I thought), Jubilee, and Fantastic Four: Foes.

I appreciate Kirkman being pretty unfiltered. He usually isn't wrong, but I think he's a pollyanna about the ability for most comic writers and artists to "go indie".

irlZaphod posted:

Marvel don't force books to be part of crossovers anymore, though, they haven't at all during Quesada's tenure.

Is there a source for this? It feels weird that you'd have tie-ins as numerous as Civil War had without some amount of arm-twisting. And there's the classic bit there a comic has to wind up or wind down centering around a crossover, as well.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2014 05:46

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Parkreiner posted:

I feel the same as you... for me at least, the difference is that it's a lot less sketchy for a character like Invincible to be specifically created with that level of gore as part of the baseline, than for one like, say, Batman that started as a children's character and had that level of guignol just kind of creep into it over time.

Ultimately part of it is just DC and various writers chasing the dragon that was the mammoth success of The Dark Knight Returns.

SirDan3k posted:

Monty Python levels absurd gore aren't the industry's panacea and neither is replicating his one in a million indie comic Cinderella story.

Though I've said it before, the gore is largely inspired Savage Dragon, another book that mixes four-color influences with the occasional exploding head.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2014 22:40

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

Does anyone know which issues of Adam Warren's Gen-13 have the story where they have to fight a self aware meme?

Gen13 #43 and #44.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2014 14:27

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Senior Woodchuck posted:

Mind, Watchmen was also a "murder mystery, but with superheroes".

I imagine Original Sin will fall between these two examples. I have a hard time imagining one worse than Identity Crisis, but I always keep an open mind re: the possibility of terrible comics.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2014 14:00

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

zoux posted:

Aside from Superman, how many comic book heroes/villians have had a nuclear bomb dropped on them? How many survived?

Obvious Answer: The Hulk, multiple times, for obvious thematic reasons.

Obscure Answer: Team 7, a group containing Wildstorm characters like Grifter, Deathblow, and Alex Fairchild.

E: all survivors, mind.

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 15, 2014

# ¿ Apr 15, 2014 19:18

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Cannonball is often phrased as "nearly invulnerable" or "practically invulnerable" when he's "blastin'". Source.

A nuke seems like it would be out of his ballpark, but given he beat up Gladiator once, it really depends on the writer.

# ¿ Apr 15, 2014 22:08

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Unmature posted:

Didn't Batman beat the Hulk once by boxing his ears? I've only ever heard about that and haven't seen it because it sounds ridiculous.

No. In Batman's words: "Which didn't really hurt the brute -- just startled him long enough to break free --"

How he does beat him is - first, he throws a gas bomb. Hulk holds his breath, but then Batman kicks him in the solar plexus and gets him to take a breath by "startling" him once again and Hulk falls from the knockout gas. Maybe editorial fudged a bit in there by adding "startling"? Hard to say.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2014 23:40

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Unmature posted:

That's still dumb!

It was! Though bear in mind this is also from a time that Hulk's invulnerability was presented in a different way back then, too.

Still, the pages in question are pretty rad anyway, IMO.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2014 07:20

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Aphrodite posted:

Yeah but what will they call it when it gets replaced by a new modern age?

The NuModern Age. Alternately, The Modern.NOW Age.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2014 17:00

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Endless Mike posted:

In hiatus until an event comic where they can be unceremoniously killed for shock value.

Mettle and Juston were the only significant deaths of that series (at least as far as wider Marvel continuity is concerned). Darkhawk survived and all the Darkhawk fans can simmer down. Victor was in Avengers AI, and they got some cameos in the final issues of Young Avengers, but haven't really gotten a proper group appearance since Avengers Academy.

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Apr 24, 2014

# ¿ Apr 24, 2014 15:46

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

El Gallinero Gros posted:

What do you suppose the secret that the Deadpool Original Sin tie-in solicit alludes to is?

Deadpool Original Sin Teaser posted:

"While Deadpool stands culpable for any number of crimes, misdemeanors and breaches of common decency, his handlers in the Weapon Plus program could boast far dirtier deeds. When they made the Merc with a Mouth, they erased his past. Years later, Wade Wilson sifts through the collateral damage. Who killed his parents, and what would he do if he learned the truth?"

# ¿ Apr 25, 2014 18:09

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Just adding more ongoings: Bishop. Gambit. Warlock. X-Man, Maverick, Quicksilver, and Cable, if you're generous. X-Men Legacy has been a Xavier book, then a Rogue book, and then a Legion book in essence.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2014 04:36

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Given how many writers have displayed what I'll politely call an "overt fondness" for Kitty, I'm a bit surprised she's never gotten an ongoing.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2014 06:06

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I don't believe so, but Electro had a daughter that briefly went by the name "Electra" in Spider-Girl.

So there's that.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2014 15:45

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I'm re-reading (the Bendis run of) New Avengers, and... does anybody know why so much effort was put forth to break out Sauron in the opening plot? Sauron shouts "I was brought there for a reason!! I was brought here for-"... but never finishes his sentence. I guess Skrulls were involved for some reason, looking on the internet, but was wondering if that dangler was ever fully explained.

# ¿ May 7, 2014 05:26

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Claytor posted:

The impression I've gotten, looking at some other material, was that there was going to be a wide-spanning conspiracy story involving corruption in SHIELD that ended up getting pushed aside by wave after wave of crossovers.

Well, the corruption in SHIELD ended up being skrull infiltrators, no idea if that was the original plan, but it gets hinted at relatively early.

Even the flashback issues explaining the skrulls in the Savage Land don't explain why Sauron was busted out, as I reread further.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 05:06

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Yeah, Nick Fury has the Infinity Formula, which is an anti-aging serum. It's been implied that Dum Dum Dugan either was exposed to it himself, or alternately is subject to the same sliding time scale that affects characters like Tony Stark, depending on who's writing him. Black Widow was enhanced by a Russian super-soldier program that accounts for her greatly slowed aging.

Nick had to be dosed every year with the Formula, or he would rapidly reach his real age. But the last samples were recently destroyed, and there was handwaving about there being "enough serum left in his system" for him to age normally from now on. Which doesn't make a lot of sense on the barest reflection, but Bendis, so.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 13:32

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

bobkatt013 posted:

Why are you blaming Bendis for a Brubaker comic in fear itself captain america 7.1 or battle scars?

I got mixed up and thought that was part of the plotline in New Avengers where part of the last sample of the Infinity Formula gets used on Mockingbird; I didn't realize it wrapped up in a different comic, since I wasn't reading Captain America at the time.

Also I have been doing my best to try and purge Battle Scars from my brain.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 15:22

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

zoux posted:

BENDIS DID EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG AND PROBABLY 9/11 TOO.

Indeed, Fear Itself and Civil War were just terrible.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 17:55

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

zooted heh posted:

I have a few questions about the marvel now relaunch. Im fairly new to comics and looking at all the titles that make up the now storylines. whats the difference between all the wovlerine comics?

Generally they don't cross over very much, but Wolverine and the X-Men has been referencing the loss of his healing powers, which is a plot from Wolverine. At the moment they're all pretty standalone.

# ¿ May 8, 2014 21:54

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

zoux posted:

Arrow showrunner Marc Guggenheim is taking over X-Men. I only know him from the fact that he showruns the best superhero show of all time, how's his comic book writing?

Mixed, in my opinion. I thought his run on Wolverine was alright, his Amazing Spider-Man work was pretty good, but I'm not sure anybody liked Young X-Men or his run on The Flash.

Glad to see Brian Wood shuffle off, though, so there's that.

# ¿ May 9, 2014 17:30

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I could be misremembering what sorts he did or didn't do, it blurs together.

# ¿ May 9, 2014 18:44

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I'm not thrilled with his writing on X-Men (though I had enjoyed Wood's writing elsewhere), but yes, having him writing an all-female cast while trying to dodge multiple harassment accusations does seem impolitic.

Given that he's dropping the book mid-storyline and that even Guggenheim doesn't have a great idea what status quo he's going to be picking up on, I would suspect shenanigans of some sort - it doesn't seem like a smooth transition behind the scenes - but it seems unlikely we're likely to have any ugly details come out.

Granted, Marvel has surprised me with their lack of professionalism lately, so I may very well be surprised again.

# ¿ May 9, 2014 21:52

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Soonmot posted:

What has Marvel done? I can't remember anything crazy from then since the hobopiss incident.

Ahhh, I was thinking of some of the death of Wolverine stuff that I didn't realize on further research is more inside baseball than I was initially told. Sometimes you can't believe words, as it turns out.

# ¿ May 10, 2014 00:25

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

# ¿ May 12, 2014 03:40

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

Previous versions of Ssuperman have used martial arts like Klurkor or Torquasm Rao, Kryptonian martial arts, or Torquasm Vo, which allows one to engage in meditative astral dream battles (really). There's also always Horo-Kanu, which is a Kryptonian martial art having to do with pressure points, but Superman didn't practice it.

# ¿ May 12, 2014 20:18

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 14:20

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

How could you forget Northstar and... and... that guy? Whats-his-name?

There's always Luke Cage and Jessica Jones, mind.

# ¿ May 15, 2014 19:39

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The BSS Q&A Thread: It's Time For Arkhamaniacs

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