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Mr. Maltose posted:How nice, to have the luxury of not giving a gently caress. It really is a luxury though? These things than it need to be changed it wouldn't be changed by us or maybe not even our grandkids but we can plant the seeds for that change with the kids of today. Teach them to learn than no matter color, preference, aspect, nationality or upbringing we're the same, there's only thing than matters: we all are human. Teach them than characters on the media are just that, fictional characters and you should take only the good things out of them. In this book particular case, take from Jason his stubborness and willforce to stand by what is right despite the odds, from Kory take the confidence to do and be what you want to and the eternal optmism and hope of a better future from Roy.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:52
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I am not sure how something changes while ignoring it.
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Mar 18, 2014 02:58
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Obviously by taking the great morality plays of Lobdell and sending them down the generations. Truly Jason is our Everyman, seemingly cast out and left to die by BatGod and revived by Satan and his daughter with half a shirt. Only by uniting ourselves with a Barbie with glowing eyes and loving Speedy can we ever hope to approach the paradise of a Bombshells cover. Oh, and only teaching our kids that lies exist instead of making the truth happen.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:03
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I'm too naive and idealistic I guess. Despite the appearances while I LOVE the book a lot I don't think than comics are really than important (or any other kind of media really) and such it shouldn't been held on such high regard just take the good things from it and drop the bad ones, teach this notion to the next generation and slowly but surely things will change for the better. You shouldn't ignore things than happen IRL though. ^ Edit: I'm sorry, what?  On what moment I went weaving a new religion? I'm just a firm believer than the superheroes exist not only to entertain but also to inspire and motivate us to be better. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 03:04
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That change is going to happen very slowly if the people who want change are silenced and dismissed as overreacting feminists because they pointed out something wrong with a thing you like.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:07
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This isn't about being idealistic. I wouldn't call you naive but I would say that you are undereducated (along with a lot of other people! There's nothing shameful in that in itself) about the ability for things you think 'don't matter' to affect the things you do think. The fictitious works on the real, the trifles influence the momentous. And even if they didn't, the idea that people who are hurt by these things that aren't that important should just shrug and look at the bright side of life in a world full of things they have to ignore and only take the good from is reductive at best. Edit: That last bit was hyperbole because, well, this is important but we are still on the Something Awful Humor Website Comics Subforum. I don't literally think you want to worship this book.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:08
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I think this would be a good time to link to shathley Q's review of Red Hood #6. Note: He did not write this as a parody. http://www.popmatters.com/review/149481-red-hood-the-outlaws-is-editors-choice-of-dcs-new-52/
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Mar 18, 2014 03:16
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Well, it's certainly a well supported reading of the text.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:24
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Teach them than characters on the media are just that, fictional characters and you should take only the good things out of them. "Just ignore the bad poo poo" is not a good thign to teach children. Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Despite the appearances while I LOVE the book a lot I don't think than comics are really than important (or any other kind of media really) and such it shouldn't been held on such high regard just take the good things from it and drop the bad ones, teach this notion to the next generation and slowly but surely things will change for the better. This is really goddamn stupid. Ignoring the bad poo poo does not make it go away. It means nobody talks about it. That's all it means. What the gently caress.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:25
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Well, people talk about it. They talk about it like it was good, because if it was bad people would be talking against it right?
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Mar 18, 2014 03:29
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d00gZ posted:I think this would be a good time to link to shathley Q's review of Red Hood #6. Note: He did not write this as a parody. Hey supermechagodzilla decided to pick up comic books. Neat.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:36
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Couldn't be SMG, there's not a single mention of Zizek. Or hyperfocus on panel construction.
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Mar 18, 2014 03:39
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Literally The Worst posted:"Just ignore the bad poo poo" is not a good thign to teach children. Well, in my house what was really important was to have something to eat, something to wear and education. My father saw the comics, games and TV as something nice to spend some of your free time but only that, growing up I had a lot of things restricted since they weren't proper for a kid like me but once I entered Middle School I was responsible from everything and he trusted on me making the right judgement about everything. I think than I am a pretty decent and so I want my childrens to grow like that. And to clarify, I'm only saying than you ignore the bad things on the media but no to ignore whatever happens with real people every day. d00gZ posted:I think this would be a good time to link to shathley Q's review of Red Hood #1. Note: He did not write this as a parody. Fixed for accuracy. Shame than that was the only review he did on the book, I'd loved to know his thoughts on all the issues of the book. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 05:14
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And to clarify, I'm only saying than you ignore the bad things on the media but no to ignore whatever happens with real people every day. It's not quite that simple. While it's more important to act better than this stuff in reality, media is more important than you're making it out to be. People learn from media and people use media to make a point. You let poo poo go because "oh, it's comics, not something significant" and that puts a hole in the argument. It's also why people give a poo poo about people of different ethnicities and sexualities being handled well in media.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:21
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Media can be a real thing that is detrimental to real people. As wonderful as it would be to say "Well, it's just a comic/television show/film/book/play/whatever" we can't all do that and saying that people who can't do that are riding coat-tails (although I think you mean jumping on a band wagon, they're very similar idioms though) or looking to be offended is sort of a lovely thing to do. Which isn't calling you lovely, it's just saying that you are doing a lovely thing.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:22
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I think than the real effort should be on giving the people the neccesary tools and knowledge to made informed choices on what the pick from the media, yes? To put an example, currently I'm hitting the gym since I want to look like Jason IRL, or the closer I realistically can get anyways. (  ) But that doesn't mean I'll be a colossal shithead like sometimes he tends to be written. Incidentally, the gym where I'm going is decorated with cheesecake posters of girls and guys, there's one in particular than is pretty close to Kory's pose on the cover and no one bats an eye to it.
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Mar 18, 2014 05:56
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Comic characters could never do anything to help society! http://mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defeated-ku-klux-klan
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Mar 18, 2014 05:59
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bobkatt013 posted:Comic characters could never do anything to help society! If that account is really true, then I'm really impressed since is the right way to use the media to educate and not to conditionate. Also, it turns out than shantley Q also reviewed issue 6 of RHATO but while interesting it gets really heavy and contrived with the deep analysis http://www.popmatters.com/review/154708-when-the-teacher-is-ready-red-hood-the-outlaws-6/ Still an interesting read though.
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Mar 18, 2014 06:09
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That is pretty much a Maxim cover and I don't see people pulling out the pitchforks everytime an issue is published. And actually I'd found the whole Bombshell's thing a little more questionable sinc by definition, the concept refers to a 'extremelly sexually attractive woman' something than should be shunned under modern conceptions, I believe than the 'grandfather clause' doesn't really apply here since another older concepts stirred a lot of controversy despite their cultural importance (the whole 'Memin Pinguin' poststamps fiasco comes to mind). Personally, I don't mind the bombshells cover (or any other variant theme actually) since they're only novelties. 1. Maxim's a lad mag 2. That's not even the bombshell cover, that's just Ed Benes shite.
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Mar 18, 2014 06:42
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:It really is a luxury though? Yes. The luxury of having a dick. Dudes not understanding this is a huge part of why sexist bullshit continues to be a problem.
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Mar 18, 2014 10:10
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Was Taters posted:1. Maxim's a lad mag Yeah Maxim is a lad's mag not a comic book. And DC comic book characters, a lot of which are aimed at young children is not the place for that poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2014 12:07
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And to clarify, I'm only saying than you ignore the bad things on the media but no to ignore whatever happens with real people every day. I know what you're saying, you're just an idiot for thinking that ignoring the bad things in media is a way to make them actually go away. If something is worth thinking about, then you have to think about the good and the bad. You don't get to just go "well I liked it because this was positive and who cares about the negative! Nobody! Nobody cares! There's negative things in comics? Stop caring!" BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 13:14
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:And to clarify, I'm only saying than you ignore the bad things on the media but no to ignore whatever happens with real people every day. I'm not saying you can't enjoy thing that have troubling aspects to them, but you should be able to pick out and understand why those aspects can be offensive to people.
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Mar 18, 2014 14:39
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Waterhaul posted:Yeah Maxim is a lad's mag not a comic book. And DC comic book characters, a lot of which are aimed at young children is not the place for that poo poo. Solicit said it was rated T(which I assume is Teen) so its about what I'd expect. There's a lot of bad stuff DC has done, this cover is not one of them.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:39
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Nah it's still bad. The fact that Starfire still has that costume is bad. It's not the worst thing DC has done but acting like it's acceptable or not sexist and degrading is bad. DC were given a full reboot to do whatever they want with the character and this is the poo poo they are doing and should constantly be called out on it. To contrast Marvel have rebooted plenty of characters both male and female with Marvel Now and have accepted that there is some poor representation of women and minorities and have attempted to address it with different costumes, storylines and creators. They aren't doing it perfectly but at least I can read Black Widow and the character doesn't constantly have the front zipper down and her tits hanging out and that's the same with Captain Marvel and even the upcoming Elektra book. And even all of that came from people constantly calling out Marvel until things started to get better. The constant ignore the very real problems because they are minor just leads to bigger poo poo down the way and prevents any actual progress being made.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:58
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Waterhaul posted:Yeah Maxim is a lad's mag not a comic book. And DC comic book characters, a lot of which are aimed at young children is not the place for that poo poo. Since when? The target demographic is 18-35 these days.
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Mar 18, 2014 16:59
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Waterhaul posted:Yeah Maxim is a lad's mag not a comic book. And DC comic book characters, a lot of which are aimed at young children is not the place for that poo poo. coconono posted:Solicit said it was rated T(which I assume is Teen) so its about what I'd expect. Was about to post this. Sadly DC hasn't had comics that were aimed at the young children in a long time (well within the main DCU I mean- there is stuff like Superman Family and Lil Titans).
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Mar 18, 2014 17:01
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Rhyno posted:Since when? The target demographic is 18-35 these days. Well if that's the case then it's failing at that because I'd hope anybody over the age of 18 would be beyond crudly drawn women with their tits hanging out and drama that feels as if it should have a Linkin Park soundtrack.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:10
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Waterhaul posted:Well if that's the case then it's failing at that because I'd hope anybody over the age of 18 would be beyond crudly drawn women with their tits hanging out and drama that feels as if it should have a Linkin Park soundtrack. It's more that they know their target audience. We can complain about it all we want but there is still a readership for poo poo like Tarot, those Brothers Grimm comics I keep seeing and wondering if they were a giant joke, and anything with a half naked woman on a cover.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:17
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Madkal posted:It's more that they know their target audience. We can complain about it all we want but there is still a readership for poo poo like Tarot, those Brothers Grimm comics I keep seeing and wondering if they were a giant joke, and anything with a half naked woman on a cover. Those target markets exist and while it's easy to peddle what is basically softcore porn and make money of it the bigger issue comes from accepting it as "not an issue" or people just getting worked up over nothing and in not being ridiculed for the dumb poo poo it is. If people just accepted things the way they were in Marvel they currently wouldn't have any of the good books they're currently doing. It's not even a company wide thing either, Harper Row is a Batfamily character who is currently miles above this dumb poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:26
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I agree and it is very easy (unchallenging) to market stuff to the lowest common denominator. Hell, there is even sometimes some fun to be had with stuff that you can "turn your brain off too" but as long as the stuff sells companies are going to do it. It is a shame because in the last - I don't 5 years or so - comics writers have been experimenting a lot more and with the growth of Image you can have stuff that gets away from the terrible stuff. I guess what I am saying is that people should be buying Sex Criminals instead.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:32
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Waterhaul posted:Nah it's still bad. The fact that Starfire still has that costume is bad. It's not the worst thing DC has done but acting like it's acceptable or not sexist and degrading is bad. Probably not Black Widow but Marvel also have things like this:  And feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Black Widow a Femme Fatale type of character? By definition sex appeal and sensuality are integral part of the archetype. Madkal did mentioned before, the cover is a throwback to the buddy cop aesthetic of the 80's-90's like Miami Vice or Tango & Cash:  If people thinks than the Bombshell covers have some merit as being a throwback to a part of the north american culture, I don't think RHATO's cover is THAT bad since is also a part of the culture, pop culture but culture nonetheless. Also, I don't know if there's some merit to it but Kory's costume on that cover is closer to Perez' one 
Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 17:46
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That All New cover is J Scott Campbell and his work get's called out every time Marvel use it for being awful poo poo which he should keep off in his terrible Zenoscope books. Also you may not notice it but the Miami Vice cover doesn't have any of the main characters sprawled seductively while being practically naked.
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Mar 18, 2014 17:49
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Sensibilities have changed since the 80's: Besides RHATO is an odd case since a quick look at the internet shows than there wasn't a female lead on your traditional buddy cop series, there were important female secondary characters but they were never featured on posters or DVD covers. There WAS a lot of sensuality, here is Teri Hatcher from Tango & Cash by example: 
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Mar 18, 2014 17:57
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The fact that other terrible things exist does not justify their continuance.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:02
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Tango and Cash isn't for kids, either.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:06
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Ah yes, Tango and Cash. Truly a work to aspire to and emulate. It's loving 2014 and we're still having the "but this is a worse thing" conversation like we're playing zero sum games.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:07
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Waterhaul posted:The fact that other terrible things exist does not justify their continuance. Again, is a throwback to the genre and we don't know if the issue will be giving continuance to the cover, I mean RHATO is specially faulty at having lying covers. EDIT:^ We don't know for sure if is emulating T&C. Personally I found the cover more in line with Miami Vice than Tango & Cash but it was the first thing than come on google with a sensual female char as per Waterhaul observation and since I've never seen Miami Vice I thought it was good enough to show my point about the throwback. See why is bad to talk without a proper knowledge of the topic at hand? Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 18:14
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irlZaphod posted:Tango and Cash isn't for kids, either.  There is probably a case to be made (in another thread) that comics aren't for kids, but there is generally a public perception, particularly from parents, that they are. DC aren't really helping anyone (except themselves, maybe, which I suppose is what they care about) by pandering to this increasingly-creepy audience who enjoys cheesecake in their comic books. You can point out examples at Marvel, but people call them out on the Land/Campbell type stuff all the time, and overall they have really improved the handling of their female/minority characters since the Marvel NOW! relaunches. e: Dark_Tzitzimine posted:EDIT:^ We don't know for sure if is emulating T&C. Regardless of what the cover is homaging, it's open to criticism if it's offensive. irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 18:21
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Again, is a throwback to the genre and we don't know if the issue will be giving continuance to the cover, I mean RHATO is specially faulty at having lying covers. That has nothing to do with what I said, but being lazy with your googling doesn't let you go "Aha! Just like those Fake Coattail Riding Feminist Tumblrs who didn't read every issue or Red Hood!" I believe you're not arguing in bad faith but come the gently caress on.
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Mar 18, 2014 18:23
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