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White Genocide
Feb 22, 2010


I read the manual. But i might watch a rahdo runs through video or something.

for TS strategy: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1LdhDPR3OWQU-G2Gp6BOJg if you like TS these are interesting. Theres also a pdf called twilight strategy

Vassals TS module is good and active, but your games can get corrupted if you dont restart vassal before a new game. The stream and ios versions are coming soonish.

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Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
u just got boardgamegeeked, mate

White Genocide
Feb 22, 2010

No. No!

White Genocide
Feb 22, 2010

Thanks for breaking it to me easy. Ill think more next time before i post.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


The beta Twilight Struggle program is ugly, vassal module just uses the board and it's so much nicer to look at

Fellis
Feb 14, 2012

Kid, don't threaten me. There are worse things than death, and uh, I can do all of them.

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

The beta Twilight Struggle program is ugly, vassal module just uses the board and it's so much nicer to look at

Yeah but if i can twilight struggle on my phone i will suffer the indignity

Scyther
Dec 29, 2010

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS





trigger warning that poo poo, or nms at *least*

Trynant
Oct 7, 2010

The final spice...your tears <3
Is Carcassonne still viewed as a Good Gateway Game? I introduced it to my family for the first time for the holiday and it went well.

gently caress trying to explain farmers to old people.

And gently caress making that last sentence look any less ironic in or out of context.

Xaris
Jul 25, 2006

Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Trynant posted:

Is Carcassonne still viewed as a Good Gateway Game? I introduced it to my family for the first time for the holiday and it went well.

I think so. It's a little harder to explain some things like Farmers and stuff though so I'm not sure how gateway-y it's considered. Probably other good gateway game is Ticket to Ride.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
i play Carc with my mom every holiday. i doubt ill ever move her past that (though we did play a game of Sherlock Holmes that went miserably last christmas) but its a good time.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Trynant posted:

Is Carcassonne still viewed as a Good Gateway Game? I introduced it to my family for the first time for the holiday and it went well.

gently caress trying to explain farmers to old people.

And gently caress making that last sentence look any less ironic in or out of context.

Carcassone is good poo poo and you should feel good about playing it.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

sounds like parenting done right to me!!!

CaptainRightful
Jan 11, 2005

Trynant posted:

Is Carcassonne still viewed as a Good Gateway Game? I introduced it to my family for the first time for the holiday and it went well.

gently caress trying to explain farmers to old people.

And gently caress making that last sentence look any less ironic in or out of context.


My parents love Carcassonne. My sister and brother-in-law love Catan. All of them enjoy playing Ticket To Ride with my young nieces (who also like Forbidden Island and Apples To Apples). So, in my experience, the standard gateway games are all legit. Can't wait to introduce Codenames to them in a few days, though.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.


same but cuba libre

Ralp
Aug 19, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Broken Loose posted:

also, for teaching, the game is super easy:
thanks

Stelas posted:

  • Roles are not in any way tied to incidents. just because there's a Murder scheduled for the day doesn't mean the Killer is the culprit
and thanks, I'm glad you mentioned this because I didn't understand it either, and it still didn't quite make sense until I actually played.

I ran the first script and my players had the roles figured out after two loops, they weren't 100% sure about the conspiracy theorist (it's not a spoiler to reveal there's a conspiracy theorist) but their hunch was correct.

I easily defeated them in the final loop though, even knowing what roles everyone had I don't know what cards they could have played to stop me. there are several ways to trigger the first loss condition and if I threaten the second loss condition it pretty much forces them to perfectly coordinate once per turn to try to block that.

I know the full scripts are different but since there's no final guess, there was no reason for me to bluff or not just go all out. Which was disappointing for me because I love misdirection, and frustrating for them because they couldn't stop me even though they knew every role/culprit.

Stelas
Sep 6, 2010

Ralp posted:

I easily defeated them in the final loop though, even knowing what roles everyone had I don't know what cards they could have played to stop me. there are several ways to trigger the first loss condition and if I threaten the second loss condition it pretty much forces them to perfectly coordinate once per turn to try to block that.

it's often hard to know exactly how to stop the mastermind's plans, but there are some ideas that aren't immediately obvious that can really, really help:

  • Intrigue seems like it's hard to stop, but it's very easy for players to say something like 'okay, only the leader ever plays Forbid Intrigue'. After that, if they get a whiff of what you're planning Intrigue-wise they can often shut it down a lot easier.
  • Sometimes the players should be ruthless. Since the Mastermind plays first, it's surprisingly easy for a savvy group of players to do something unexpected. If the players had figured out who the Serial Killer was, and who the Killer was... ... why not feed the Killer to the Serial Killer? Hell, have the SK off the Conspiracy Theorist possibilities, too! The only thing that matters is surviving the loop, what's a little collateral damage when it takes the teeth right out of the MM's plans?
  • The Boy Student and Girl Student can together keep their paranoia right down, especially if separated from the conspiracy theorist.

The game gives the Mastermind a lot of information on how to play the first scenario, but not as much to the players themselves - I'd suggest trying scenario 2, where you're both on equal footing. it's a bit of a dull script but it's quite a bit harder to figure out what to do as the MM.

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna

Ralp posted:


I know the full scripts are different but since there's no final guess, there was no reason for me to bluff or not just go all out. Which was disappointing for me because I love misdirection, and frustrating for them because they couldn't stop me even though they knew every role/culprit.

This is super frustrating for the first scenario, and even later scenarios can come down to a single card and a 50/50 depending on what the mastermind plays even if you know all the information. The final guess is kind of a clunky mechanic that ruins some of the theme's intergration to fix the issue that even knowing all of the information you can lose. It feels like a half-victory if you couldn't actually stop bad things from happening.

Trynant
Oct 7, 2010

The final spice...your tears <3
Tragedy Looper without the final guess rule can turn into going through the motions with unfair Mastermind advantages really fast. The amount of bluff plays that can be done turn so many things in the First Steps tragedy set into random guesswork on the Protagonists' part.

Between that issue and that the various gamers in my groups have done the first two scenarios enough to not have unspoiled players; I just like to risk throwing newbies into the Basic Tragedy stuff and have open table-talk. The result is a little more complexity, but with frequent table-talk the learning process is easier.

In addition, between the ease of creating scripts and the Mastermind Manual's helpful creation guide; new scripts are a breeze to come up with. This can be another solution to the "mixed group of totally new players and those who've played both Basic Tragedy scripts" problem, even if the lack of Final Guess still sucks.

Trynant
Oct 7, 2010

The final spice...your tears <3
Should I be saving the not-quite-poo poo posts for the bad thread or what.

Broken Loose
Dec 25, 2002

PROGRAM
A > - - -
LR > > - -
LL > - - -
the thingy in my bookmarks page says i have 1290 unread posts in the bad thread. somebody catch me up.

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul
Rutibex continues to troll them relentlessly and they continue to not get it

Banana Man
Oct 2, 2015

mm time 2 gargle piss and shit

andrew smash posted:

Rutibex continues to troll them relentlessly and they continue to not get it

It's insane really how well he's doing it. He almost got me and I know he's doing it

gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl
His poo poo stopped being cute. If he's being sincere, he's a jackass. If he's trolling, he's using the tiredest poo poo on the internet. Congrats on impersonating a talking fedora.

In better news, I gave the thread an informative lecture on anal sex. Everyone learned something valuable that day, if only about themselves.

Crackbone
May 23, 2003

Vlaada is my co-pilot.

Gutter Owl posted:

His poo poo stopped being cute. If he's being sincere, he's a jackass. If he's trolling, he's using the tiredest poo poo on the internet. Congrats on impersonating a talking fedora.

In better news, I gave the thread an informative lecture on anal sex. Everyone learned something valuable that day, if only about themselves.

Exactly. Recommending Talisman is one thing but his racist/sexist bullshit isn't funny fake or not.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Gutter Owl posted:

His poo poo stopped being cute. If he's being sincere, he's a jackass. If he's trolling, he's using the tiredest poo poo on the internet. Congrats on impersonating a talking fedora.

In better news, I gave the thread an informative lecture on anal sex. Everyone learned something valuable that day, if only about themselves.

I wasn't aware this was your kinda board game.

gutterdaughter
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl

Toshimo posted:

I wasn't aware this was your kinda board game.



:golfclap:

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Broken Loose posted:

the thingy in my bookmarks page says i have 1290 unread posts in the bad thread. somebody catch me up.

Kemet is really good, Codenames is a dream.

For a minute I thought the reply was from Rob Daviau.

Impermanent
Apr 1, 2010

Crackbone posted:

Exactly. Recommending Talisman is one thing but his racist/sexist bullshit isn't funny fake or not.

Ralp
Aug 19, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Stelas posted:

The game gives the Mastermind a lot of information on how to play the first scenario, but not as much to the players themselves - I'd suggest trying scenario 2, where you're both on equal footing. it's a bit of a dull script but it's quite a bit harder to figure out what to do as the MM.

Ok, thanks everyone. This part I quoted is interesting though, because the players will never be on equal footing with me will they? The MM handbook has a bunch of advice and specific plays for the first script which was super helpful, but now that I know how the game works, I can just study a script ahead of time to plan and strategize and basically work out that same stuff on my own. Or am I not supposed to do that? The mastermind isn't supposed to go into a script blind is he?

Lichtenstein
May 31, 2012

It'll make sense, eventually.
Rutibex & this thread:

Stelas
Sep 6, 2010

Ralp posted:

Or am I not supposed to do that? The mastermind isn't supposed to go into a script blind is he?

well, I mean more that the first scenario has a section in the book where it's totally mapped out in a 'do this and then this, if the players do this then do this' way. When you add in more characters and plots, and reduce the information the book gives you to the loss conditions and then a couple of general bits of advice, it can sometimes become really hard to hold it all in your head - especially when you're having to be proactive, compared to the protagonist's reactive. It's remarkably easy to gently caress up by accident

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

Crackbone posted:

Exactly. Recommending Talisman is one thing but his racist/sexist bullshit isn't funny fake or not.

except i'm not racist or sexist at all

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
i'm sorry if i come off as offensive to anyone. i used to be a knee deep participant in feminist/social justice communities during a very bad time in my life. maybe you remeber the LF forum? that community got really messed up, especially after it was exiled from SA. everyone turned on each other, mobbing the unrighteous until no one remained. now whenever i see the kind of "take that filthy male gaze out of our board games, smash the patriarchy!" rhetoric i instantly get defensive

memy
Oct 15, 2011

by exmarx

Rutibex posted:

i'm sorry if i come off as offensive to anyone. i used to be a knee deep participant in feminist/social justice communities during a very bad time in my life. maybe you remeber the LF forum? that community got really messed up, especially after it was exiled from SA. everyone turned on each other, mobbing the unrighteous until no one remained. now whenever i see the kind of "take that filthy male gaze out of our board games, smash the patriarchy!" rhetoric i instantly get defensive

Source your quotes

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Rutibex posted:

i'm sorry if i come off as offensive to anyone. i used to be a knee deep participant in feminist/social justice communities during a very bad time in my life. maybe you remeber the LF forum? that community got really messed up, especially after it was exiled from SA. everyone turned on each other, mobbing the unrighteous until no one remained. now whenever i see the kind of "take that filthy male gaze out of our board games, smash the patriarchy!" rhetoric i instantly get defensive

I guess capital letters are feminist.

Scyther
Dec 29, 2010

Rutibex posted:

i'm sorry if i come off as offensive to anyone. i used to be a knee deep participant in feminist/social justice communities during a very bad time in my life. maybe you remeber the LF forum? that community got really messed up, especially after it was exiled from SA. everyone turned on each other, mobbing the unrighteous until no one remained. now whenever i see the kind of "take that filthy male gaze out of our board games, smash the patriarchy!" rhetoric i instantly get defensive

##Vote to exile Rutibex

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:

Rutibex posted:

i'm sorry if i come off as offensive to anyone. i used to be a knee deep participant in feminist/social justice communities during a very bad time in my life. maybe you remeber the LF forum? that community got really messed up, especially after it was exiled from SA. everyone turned on each other, mobbing the unrighteous until no one remained. now whenever i see the kind of "take that filthy male gaze out of our board games, smash the patriarchy!" rhetoric i instantly get defensive

thank you former poster talismanstomper58

andrew smash
Jun 26, 2006

smooth soul

Rutibex posted:

except i'm not racist or sexist at all

hosed up if true

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Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna

Scyther posted:

##Vote to exile Rutibex

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