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Count Freebasie
Jan 12, 2006

The title is tongue-in-cheek, but those of us who have been in sales long enough know that this is an all-too-pervasive perception of us.

I wanted to put together a thread for those of us in sales, from low-end to high-end and everything in between.

If you sell in a department store, sell cars, pharmaceuticals, medical device, capital equipment, software, etc., this a good place for us to share our war stories, answer questions for those not in sales, and also implore those not in sales to stay out of this horrible life we live in (just kidding...sort of).

About me: I finished college with a BA in Broadcasting, Telecommunicatons and Mass Media (useless degree), and went straight into sales as an insurance/mutual fund broker. That didn't work, as all of my friends were too young and broke to buy anything, and the rest of my family had given all of their money to my cousin who was a VP at a very large investment firm. I then sold yellow pages (if you can sell that you can sell anything), and afterwards broke into medical sales (low-level commodities). Then, it was into the OR where I sold surgical devices and spent a lot of time working surical cases with them (have been in about 1000 or so, give or take). Next, I moved into capital sales (medical device) where I have been for the past seven years, recently becoming a manager and no longer "carrying the bag."

If anyone has questions for me, fire away. If anyone else wants to share their experiences, go right ahead.

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Deep Winter
Mar 26, 2010
I sell phones and phones accessories.

What's that? Bought a phone with no insurance nor a case and you dropped it? And you want a new phone for free? :psyboom:

Or, "hello sir we've had a management change, we have a new database of our customers we need to fill, what's your address?"

"I ain't telling you! You're gonna send me bills and advertisements and blah blah!"

"Oh, uh, no sir, again we have a new customer database-"

"Don't lie to me! I used to work on the cellphone towers! I know what goes on in those ivory towers!"

(He actually said "ivory towers"

Oorrr, people who tell me there is no password on their account. Well, we sure didn't add it behind your back, pal.

"Your prices are so high!"

"I've had to wait a few minutes to be serviced, you should give me a discount!"

:shepspends:


People walk in, don't like the prices of our stuff, ask where they can get it cheaper. "Do you think Wal-Mart will have it cheaper?"

I don't know, maybe?

Or the opposite, "I can get that at Wal-Mart for free!"

Great, they're a huge conglomerate that has different deals and can afford to give phones away. We can't.

Or people acting smug because they discovered Amazon or ebay. :smug: "heh, I can get that online for half the

Awesome. So can I. You want a cookie?

I had a woman purchase something from our phone carrier's online site and try to return it in store... to an indirect. We're a franchise! You didn't buy it from us! When you bought it, it came with return instructions. But why read when you can pass the buck to someone else+

Leroy Diplowski
Aug 25, 2005

The Candyman Can :science:

Visit My Candy Shop

And SA Mart Thread
I'm thinking of applying for a sales job, but I'm not sure if I'm qualified.

I've never had a specifically defined "sales" job, but I have worked for startups for the last 5 years (including my own) and since I have a knack for sales and really enjoy it I have become the de facto "sales guy"

I've run booths a couple of major trade shows in the gift industry, done a whole lot of b2b marketing taking charge of everything from SEO to cold calling to working with customers coming up with contracts and production schedules. I've also been in a management position for the last 5 years with 5-15 people working under me.

I know a lot of the people who work for this company, and the person giving the interview knows who I am, so I might get to make up for a little bit of underqualification.

Here's a link to the posting I am considering. It's the last posting on the page. Does it look like something I would be qualified for or even want to pursue? What's a ballpark salary for such a position?

http://coton-colors.com/careers

Count Freebasie
Jan 12, 2006

Leroy Diplowski posted:

I'm thinking of applying for a sales job, but I'm not sure if I'm qualified.

I've never had a specifically defined "sales" job, but I have worked for startups for the last 5 years (including my own) and since I have a knack for sales and really enjoy it I have become the de facto "sales guy"

I've run booths a couple of major trade shows in the gift industry, done a whole lot of b2b marketing taking charge of everything from SEO to cold calling to working with customers coming up with contracts and production schedules. I've also been in a management position for the last 5 years with 5-15 people working under me.

I know a lot of the people who work for this company, and the person giving the interview knows who I am, so I might get to make up for a little bit of underqualification.

Here's a link to the posting I am considering. It's the last posting on the page. Does it look like something I would be qualified for or even want to pursue? What's a ballpark salary for such a position?

http://coton-colors.com/careers

Salary-wise, I don't think it will pay all that much, but the question is really "where do you want to end up in the long run?" One of the best sales jobs there is, that many companies will hire from is Enterprise Car Rental. Their training programs are excellent, and I've known a few who ended up in high-level sales from there.

Sales (if you want to do it for a living) is a series of stepping stones. You start out at the "bottom" and work your way up to your ultimate goal. All of the moves I've made were ones to advance my career and income. If you start out with the endgame in mind, you will do well (assuming again that sales is the career you want).

So, let me ask: What is your ultimate goal? That might give me a better idea as to where you might want to look. Your first sales job often will determine the entire trajectory. Resume isn't as important in the beginning - how you conduct yourself on an interview is.



Deep Winter posted:

"Oh, uh, no sir, again we have a new customer database-"

"Don't lie to me! I used to work on the cellphone towers! I know what goes on in those ivory towers!"

(He actually said "ivory towers"

This logic is beautiful in so many ways.

Count Freebasie fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Mar 5, 2014

Leroy Diplowski
Aug 25, 2005

The Candyman Can :science:

Visit My Candy Shop

And SA Mart Thread

Count Freebasie posted:

So, let me ask: What is your ultimate goal? That might give me a better idea as to where you might want to look. Your first sales job often will determine the entire trajectory. Resume isn't as important in the beginning - how you conduct yourself on an interview is.

I'm not looking for a career in sales. Ideally I'd like to make a little bit of cash for 3-5 years and then go to grad school. I'm self employed right now and I love it, but I'd really like to take home a little more dough until I have a savings that I'm comfortable with.

DrAlexanderTobacco
Jun 11, 2012

Help me find my true dharma
Forgive me if I'm imposing, but as it's a fresh thread, could you explain what you consider to be the very basics of salesmanship etc? I myself was a telemarketer for a while but burned out because I was terrible. I won't ever (hopefully!) have to go back to a call center but I'd like to see if I can apply your thoughts to other aspects of my career - Speaking to high-value clients etc.

Shadowgate
May 6, 2007

Soiled Meat
I've been in technology sales for about 9 years. I stumbled into it on accident due to my interest in technology, and ended up working my way up to an Account Executive position. I would be happy to answer any questions about sales and sales engineers on the technology side if there are questions.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene
I bootstrapped from a field applications engineer to capital equipment sales. It is pretty boss. A little over my head but things are going well :) We're getting down to the wire, how are everybody's numbers for this quarter?

usernamen_01
Oct 20, 2012

Shadowgate posted:

I've been in technology sales for about 9 years. I stumbled into it on accident due to my interest in technology, and ended up working my way up to an Account Executive position. I would be happy to answer any questions about sales and sales engineers on the technology side if there are questions.

I'll bite.

Did you take any formal training or was it passed onto you from working with others and simply doing the job?

I'm interested in moving into B2B sales at a small technology company. Other than knowing the product and its applications all the way through, what is something special that helps convince a company to want to buy what you're offering over similar competing models?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

I'm also interested in a B2B account executive role, specifically in enterprise software. I'm already working for the company in an marketing analysis/BI/data science type of position and was considering jumping on the sales training program that they've opened since I think I've hit a brick wall in terms of advancement here.

The program is aimed at grads with no sales experience and I have a little (summer in retail banking) plus a decent knowledge of our products and our marketing and sales approach (discounts!). Would this give me an upper hand to sail through the program or bypass it? I wouldn't mind starting over if the money is around my current, which I understand isn't a concern in this type of position? Also, how would you describe the responsibilities of account owners vs account executives?

Shadowgate
May 6, 2007

Soiled Meat

usernamen_01 posted:

I'll bite.

Did you take any formal training or was it passed onto you from working with others and simply doing the job?

I'm interested in moving into B2B sales at a small technology company. Other than knowing the product and its applications all the way through, what is something special that helps convince a company to want to buy what you're offering over similar competing models?

I didn't take any formal training beyond what was provided by my company. It is a fortune 50 company, so there is a large amount of training, but most of what you learn will be on the job. Leveraging the knowledge of your peers is always a good idea. They can often give you ideas or strategies you might be able to try out in a territory.

Being at a smaller company can be difficult, because if customers haven't heard of you, it's hard to get engaged or to get sales leads. The biggest thing I always ask when interviewing is "What is the value proposition". If the interviewer doesn't have a good answer and I don't feel like it's a product I can get behind, it's not the job for me. When looking at a sales job, the product and company are one of the most important deciding factors. I have to feel like it's a product that people will want and it legitimately solves a problem in the IT space.

Going up against a competing product will depend on a ton of factors, things like price, features, niche role, brand, buying options, etc. It really varies in each situation, and as you learn the space of the product(s) you are covering, you'll have a good understand of where your weaknesses and strengths are.

mobby_6kl posted:

I'm also interested in a B2B account executive role, specifically in enterprise software. I'm already working for the company in an marketing analysis/BI/data science type of position and was considering jumping on the sales training program that they've opened since I think I've hit a brick wall in terms of advancement here.

The program is aimed at grads with no sales experience and I have a little (summer in retail banking) plus a decent knowledge of our products and our marketing and sales approach (discounts!). Would this give me an upper hand to sail through the program or bypass it? I wouldn't mind starting over if the money is around my current, which I understand isn't a concern in this type of position? Also, how would you describe the responsibilities of account owners vs account executives?

It sounds like you are already passed one of the biggest hurdles, which is learning the products. Depending on the sales program, they might completely skip product knowledge (I hate this) and focus only on sales skills, or vice versa.

There are a lot of different types of sales roles, and with the come a variety of job titles. Each company does things a bit differently, but the typical structure is having an Account Manager who does almost all of the phone based work, and handles things like quoting, administrative tasks like shipping, address updating, etc. Then you would typically have an Account Executive who is responsible for traveling to visit customers face to face, running with the opportunity and closing it down, essentially doing all of the face to face coordination. Typically the two work together very closely as a team.

As far as money goes, if you are working in a phone based position in the tech world, you should be making between $40k-100k. If you are field based, you should be making $75k-the sky is the limit. I know some field people who make $500k a year, but the norm is probably closer to $150k-$200k. Typically you should avoid roles that are commission only as most reputable companies give a healthy salary in addition to commission (although there are exceptions to this).

Sales is an interesting world to be in. Sometimes it's the most stressful thing I've ever encountered, other days I'm laughing that they actually pay me to do this job.

Let me know if I missed anything or you want more details.

Ossipago
Nov 14, 2012

Muldoon

Count Freebasie posted:

Next, I moved into capital sales (medical device) where I have been for the past seven years, recently becoming a manager and no longer "carrying the bag."

Being in sales might require me to shave my neckbeard, so it's not happening, but I find sales interesting because several places I've worked it's been treated like a kind of magic based on personal charisma ("sell me this pen!"), but at the same time there's a lot of numbers involved.

As a manager, what kind of analytics do you use? Closure rates and amount sold seem obvious, but how else do you measure an effective sales process? Do you forecast based on sales history, or do you research other market factors?

Do sales people find data like this interesting (I would), or is it just background noise to let the managers sort out?

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
I've been working in sales for about a year now. I have no formal training. Everything I've learned is from my co-workers and my bosses, who have years of experience (from 9 years to 30 years). I also don't have a college degree in anything business-related, in marketing, etc. (I was an English Lit. Major before I took time off school.)

My bosses say that I have natural talent, charisma, and I'm well educated on the "product", but I could do well to get some more formal training to improve upon my skill set. The problem is that every book on sales is promoting a self-serving agenda (they're selling a book on selling, and they all say their way is the best way). I assume online courses on sales are worse.

I know there has to be some must-read books or an online course that genuinely has good advice and can help me improve. My bosses are willing to pay for them, but I don't want to waste money on something that will be useless or just bad advice. Can anyone give me some good recommendations on books and/or online courses for sales, time management, and other skills that would be useful in my position (I mainly work on the phone, but I sometimes have to sit down with people, do a presentation, and try to sell to them in person).

Bonus points if the book/course has a decent sense of humor without being annoyingly goofy, ie "Sales for Dummies -- with cartoons!"

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene
PSS or any of the other descendants of the Xerox Method are pretty solid.

creationist believer
Feb 16, 2007

College Slice
My current job title is software developer, however in the past year most of my duties have been more along the lines of a sales engineer role: providing technical input on RFIs/RFPs/RFQs, performing product demonstrations, gathering technical requirements from customers, doing trade shows, etc. I'm thinking about formally talking with my boss about changing my title to Sales Engineer as a career development move and asking for training to help me suit this role better. Has anyone made the jump from software development (or any engineering field) to technical sales? What was your experience and what kind of training would you recommend to someone making the move?

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

TFW you see Flyers goaltending.
Grimey Drawer

Franchescanado posted:

I've been working in sales for about a year now. I have no formal training. Everything I've learned is from my co-workers and my bosses, who have years of experience (from 9 years to 30 years). I also don't have a college degree in anything business-related, in marketing, etc. (I was an English Lit. Major before I took time off school.)

My bosses say that I have natural talent, charisma, and I'm well educated on the "product", but I could do well to get some more formal training to improve upon my skill set. The problem is that every book on sales is promoting a self-serving agenda (they're selling a book on selling, and they all say their way is the best way). I assume online courses on sales are worse.

I know there has to be some must-read books or an online course that genuinely has good advice and can help me improve. My bosses are willing to pay for them, but I don't want to waste money on something that will be useless or just bad advice. Can anyone give me some good recommendations on books and/or online courses for sales, time management, and other skills that would be useful in my position (I mainly work on the phone, but I sometimes have to sit down with people, do a presentation, and try to sell to them in person).

Bonus points if the book/course has a decent sense of humor without being annoyingly goofy, ie "Sales for Dummies -- with cartoons!"

A lot of times the best sales reps are the ones with no previous experience (I work in wireless retail). They don't have bad habits, are optimistic and don't know what "isn't possible."

Personally, I have been doing extremely well for the last 5 years at different companies with sales, and I find it just comes down to focus, consistency and connecting to people. There isn't too much magic in my mind besides crafting how you sell day to day.

I've done outside sales and that's both different and not different, so I guess training depends.

My most important books:
"Art of War" by Sun Tzu. Seriously a must read.

"Linchpin" by Seth Godin. He's obviously a bit preachy, and there is nothing on actual sales execution, but in terms of outlook, attitude and how to approach your daily job, I highly recommend it.

Death of Innocence
Jan 12, 2006

I'm interested in getting into Sales. I just graduated with a BA in Economics, and I worked through college (8 years!) at a small 10-20 person Bay Area company as general office staff with occasional management and sales aspects. I don't have extensive sales experience in a defined sales role, but I have done an outside sales campaign for the company, where I met with private school directors to pitch our services. In addition I have worked at our booth for several professional conventions, with a focus on recruiting.

I don't know what kinds of sales positions I should be aiming for, or how to aim for them when I may lack relevant industry experience and sales experience. At the same time I am apprehensive about advice to take a position such as the Enterprise thing where you work 50 hours a week to make $35k a year. It would be a paycut for me, in terms of $/hour, and its designed for people fresh out of college without any professional experience whatsoever. I think I would better further my career by making a forward or upward movement towards more money and a full-grown sales position. I mean if it were possible to directly take the job you'd go for after Enterprise, of course I'd prefer to do that.

In the short term I recognize the need to build my resume and my professional skills, but my career goals are that I'd like to make as much as possible, as soon as possible. I would like to save and invest while I'm young, so I value highly the amount I can make over the next few years and the next decade. I would really like some advice on what I should do next, and what I should be aiming for career-wise. It sounds like there are many kinds of sales positions, in very different industries, but if you were starting now, which way would you head?

Shadowgate posted:

There are a lot of different types of sales roles, and with the come a variety of job titles. Each company does things a bit differently, but the typical structure is having an Account Manager who does almost all of the phone based work, and handles things like quoting, administrative tasks like shipping, address updating, etc. Then you would typically have an Account Executive who is responsible for traveling to visit customers face to face, running with the opportunity and closing it down, essentially doing all of the face to face coordination. Typically the two work together very closely as a team.

As far as money goes, if you are working in a phone based position in the tech world, you should be making between $40k-100k. If you are field based, you should be making $75k-the sky is the limit. I know some field people who make $500k a year, but the norm is probably closer to $150k-$200k. Typically you should avoid roles that are commission only as most reputable companies give a healthy salary in addition to commission (although there are exceptions to this).

My roots are in the Bay Area, if there's an industry I'm well located for, it's tech. I would definitely be interested in hearing more about this. How do I get in?

Death of Innocence fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Apr 10, 2014

Shadowgate
May 6, 2007

Soiled Meat

Death of Innocence posted:

My roots are in the Bay Area, if there's an industry I'm well located for, it's tech. I would definitely be interested in hearing more about this. How do I get in?

There are a number of tech resellers that hire field sales people just out of college and provide training as you go. It sounds like you have some field sales experience, so you definitely need to leverage that when going for a role like this. You can also find resellers that will hire just about anyone for an inside sales role. The catch with those companies is that they generally offer a lower salary ($35k-ish on the west coast) and you are responsible for building your own customer base. This means your commission will be nearly zero for the first year as you build up an account set, but after the first year you will start to make some money. These jobs are super tough to get started with, but can certainly get you the experience you need to move up or switch companies.

I'm not sure what the tech reseller climate looks like in the Bay Area, but I'm guessing there are a million to choose from. There are also well known national resellers like SHI who are always hiring field and inside sales people.

Death of Innocence
Jan 12, 2006

Thanks, I'm going to go check this out.

Shadowgate
May 6, 2007

Soiled Meat

Death of Innocence posted:

Thanks, I'm going to go check this out.

PM me if you have any questions.

supermikhail
Nov 17, 2012


"It's video games, Scully."
Video games?"
"He enlists the help of strangers to make his perfect video game. When he gets bored of an idea, he murders them and moves on to the next, learning nothing in the process."
"Hmm... interesting."
I worked in a small bookstore for 3 months, and the experience left me with a mixture of distrust and pity for most store employees. Each visit to a 24 hour supermarket now refills my supply of existential confusion.

Suave Fedora
Jun 10, 2004
I'm going to apply for a Sales Account Manager position at a wireless company opening a new branch where I live. I've been in IT support services since like 2000 and want to take the leap into a more traditional business department likes Sales & Marketing.

As a wireless admin, I've been on the receiving end of wireless for six years now as a telecom/wireless administrator and know pretty well what tactics I've liked and didn't like from the multitude of sales account managers that have serviced our corporate account over the years. I have the same industry knowledge that they do from working with them every day and have hit the progress ceiling where I work.

I enjoy meeting new people and am very good at finding things other people enjoy talking about. My only hangup is that I feel that I have to believe in the product I am selling, and while I feel that way about this company, I really won't know its products until I get my boots on the ground.

My long-term goal is to become more involved with CRM (customer relationship marketing) but in my current company that goal is not looking too good, so I figure that I'll should go for a new experience - which is very appealing to me - and hope they have a CRM system in place I can get some experience with and leverage that in the future.

This really resonates with me:

Duckman2008 posted:

A lot of times the best sales reps are the ones with no previous experience (I work in wireless retail). They don't have bad habits, are optimistic and don't know what "isn't possible."

I find it just comes down to focus, consistency and connecting to people.

Suave Fedora fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Apr 22, 2014

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Suave Fedora posted:

My only hangup is that I feel that I have to believe in the product I am selling, and while I feel that way about this company, I really won't know its products until I get my boots on the ground.


To be successful in sales, you do not have to love the product/service and company to succeed. But if you want to do phenomenally well and move up into management roles, you have to love what you are selling. If you don't, you'll burn out quick which will make you start resenting work and yourself.

Your end goal, should be to move out of sales into marketing or you will end up like Sheldon Levine. A broken old man that steals from the company.

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

TFW you see Flyers goaltending.
Grimey Drawer

Suave Fedora posted:

I'm going to apply for a Sales Account Manager position at a wireless company opening a new branch where I live. I've been in IT support services since like 2000 and want to take the leap into a more traditional business department likes Sales & Marketing.

As a wireless admin, I've been on the receiving end of wireless for six years now as a telecom/wireless administrator and know pretty well what tactics I've liked and didn't like from the multitude of sales account managers that have serviced our corporate account over the years. I have the same industry knowledge that they do from working with them every day and have hit the progress ceiling where I work.

I enjoy meeting new people and am very good at finding things other people enjoy talking about. My only hangup is that I feel that I have to believe in the product I am selling, and while I feel that way about this company, I really won't know its products until I get my boots on the ground.

My long-term goal is to become more involved with CRM (customer relationship marketing) but in my current company that goal is not looking too good, so I figure that I'll should go for a new experience - which is very appealing to me - and hope they have a CRM system in place I can get some experience with and leverage that in the future.

This really resonates with me:

Which company are you applying to? If your long term goal is marketing of any sort, and it's a retail sales rep position you are applying to, that's a lot of jumps to get from one to the other. I do retail wireless sales and I love it overall, but my direct paths of promotions overall are management, business sales, things like that. Marketing is a hard one to jump to from what I can tell since they would just hire someone with a specific degree or experience.

Unless you are younger and just starting out, I would def only recommend wireless sales working for corporate and not a franchise. Someone who is 21 might need to work indirect first to get experience, but the pay, benefits and opportunities are just so much better at corporate vs non corporate.

Amazing Member
Apr 4, 2008
Door-to-door sales guy chiming in here,

Honestly, for all the poo poo people give us about us 'trying to sell them' you'd think we had a gun pointed at their wallets.
It is fair to say though, there are definitely those out there that give sales reps a bad name either through dishonesty or some sort of jackassery.

A little background.

I've done a lot of different forms of sales, selling high end home theaters out of the back of a van (legally!), to door to door on the beat knocking on peoples houses and sometimes getting free and not poisoned dinners from a sale. To good ol' fashioned over the phone 'qualified leads" where you fight with a client who had signed up and should have expected your call. (Yes, you um...signed up for some information about home insurance....well I'm the guy that has the home insurance...go what myself?!)

I'm now working as a freelance accounts representative for a coffee company that will be opening shortly, so I can add business-to-business sales to my resume soon enough.

Through all of this I still love all the stories I've amassed over the years, from the sickly, grotesque, over weight elderly man who opened his door wearing nothing but his whitey-tighties with what looked like mayonnaise splayed all over his chest where a scar from his recent heart surgery lay puckered with greasy condiment on it. To the awesome sale where I was able to make a sale and convince the applicant to take me to his parents house since he knew his parents wanted the same product for themselves. I ended up getting dinner, and a prototype demonstration of some hi-tech stuff his old man worked on!

I love it all.

If there's any bit of advice I can confer with anyone please let me know, but one thing that sticks out above all else that some folks never seem to grasp; Think about what the customer/business/client wants. Not what you want. Being sincerely interested in the plight of your client makes things incredibly smoother for both of you.

VH4Ever
Oct 1, 2005

by sebmojo
Who can tell me about car sales and the pros/cons of working in that industry? To be specific: I mean working for a major dealer, not a dirt lot.

jayd42
Jul 19, 2004
custom title

Count Freebasie posted:

One of the best sales jobs there is, that many companies will hire from is Enterprise Car Rental. Their training programs are excellent, and I've known a few who ended up in high-level sales from there.



What other companies have training programs that are worth knowing about?

Someone also mentioned the Xerox method. Does (did?) Xerox have a good training program?

Krono99
Dec 5, 2003

Death of Innocence posted:

In the short term I recognize the need to build my resume and my professional skills, but my career goals are that I'd like to make as much as possible, as soon as possible. I would like to save and invest while I'm young, so I value highly the amount I can make over the next few years and the next decade. I would really like some advice on what I should do next, and what I should be aiming for career-wise. It sounds like there are many kinds of sales positions, in very different industries, but if you were starting now, which way would you head?

I've done sales in a variety of industries. I started with cell phones and wireless tech at a corporate AT&T store, then sold Real Estate as a licensed broker in my state, and now sell vehicles at a very successful local dealership.

I would say, far and away, I have found auto sales to be the field where you can make the most money in the shortest amount of time.

I got into wireless, less because it was sales, more because it was a union job with 'good benefits' and I had a kid on the way. The idea of earning more via commission was just a bonus. I got into Real Estate because it was my passion and I foolishly believed that doing something that makes you happy will lead to some kind of zen like existence, but instead it just made me broke and unsatisfied with my life. The people who say to follow your passion either got lucky and have a passion that pays well, or are just miserable people failing in some other field, simply advising you to not go the route they did.

If I could talk to myself in my 20's I would say 'Hey, Real Estate is fun, but it's a hobby, not a career. Go sell cars to build your bank roll, THEN get involved in real estate the right way, slowly and with lots of cash in hand.'

VH4Ever posted:

Who can tell me about car sales and the pros/cons of working in that industry? To be specific: I mean working for a major dealer, not a dirt lot.

Pro's: Fantastic money, as long as you're at a quality dealership and an ability to make more than you'd ever expected from just 'moving some metal'. Get to drive interesting vehicles, meet all kinds of people (slept with a couple cute girls whom I sold cars to), get really good at reading people and understanding negotiating not just car deals, but everything in your life.

Con's: Hours. The loving hours. You're going to work your balls off and not have much of a 'life' outside of your job but if you're like me, it's worth it because you're making in a single year of car sales what you would earn in multiple years of something you were 'passionate' about.

I work at a wonderful mixed dealership where you can sell both new and used, and they both pay great. After the bail-out, GM has really come out swinging with solid products, good customer service and a brand I can be proud to represent. I am extremely, extremely lucky to be at the dealership I am, but I've worked my way here. Some dealerships out there across the country, I suspect, are similar to this one in that they only hire people with a track record and a bit of experience in the field.

I started at a Nissan dealership run by a complete D-Bag who knew very little about how to take care of his employees, but alot about how to put money in his own pocket. This lead to a dealership with a turnover rate that makes McDonalds look good. The pay plan was challenging and alot of the guys who had worked at other dealerships complained about it but in my best year there I just ignored the nay-sayers, worked my rear end off and made over 80K my second year in the business. My best year in wireless sales was about 70K and I knew it could be even better.

I was fortunate enough to get a chance to join this rapidly growing family owned hyper aggressive dealership locally that sells 300-400 units a month and I'm now on pace to easily break 100K for the first time in my life and do so in an area with an average general income of around 35K. They have a free demo program so I can drive whatever I want, they expect their salesman to be productive so there is no one looking over my shoulder or micro managing, they NEVER ask you to do any 'porter work' around the dealership (like removing snow from vehicles, moving cars around the lot, etc) and I couldn't be happier.

Now all that gushy stuff being said, I am working 50-60 hours a week (by my own choice) and I have basically no time for anything else besides my son. I've pretty much given up on video games, partying more than a couple times a month, and I've even had to give up the gym because my financial goals are my priority. It's hard work for sure and the long hours do get to me sometimes but the pay is crazy and the things that it's allowing me to do in a short period of time is life changing.

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

jayd42 posted:

What other companies have training programs that are worth knowing about?

Someone also mentioned the Xerox method. Does (did?) Xerox have a good training program?

Good training programs are really dependent on the environment you'll be selling in. The poo poo I learned from Vector Marketing selling Cutco right out of high school did not carry over to consultative b2b selling over the phone. The training I received for cold calling while working at call center selling small ticket purchases, also didn't translate to my current sales gig pitching $60k monthly digital advertising campaigns.

As a manager you can train people only so much, providing all the tools they'll need to succeed. But at the end of the day the best salesman are the ones that continue to learn, grow, and constantly be pushing themselves forward.

Companies like Enterprise, Xerox, Nordstroms, and Hibu are great at training for their sales environment. But what you learn at Xerox most likely will not help if you suddenly find yourself selling print ads at Hibu.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene
Xerox actually sold their sales method and its given rise to a variety of different methods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution_selling

Obviously, it isn't a one-size-fits-all method but it works well for me. Also, I usually rely on winging it and having some structure to ground me is incredibly helpful.

Suave Fedora
Jun 10, 2004

Snatch Duster posted:

To be successful in sales, you do not have to love the product/service and company to succeed. But if you want to do phenomenally well and move up into management roles, you have to love what you are selling. If you don't, you'll burn out quick which will make you start resenting work and yourself.

Your end goal, should be to move out of sales into marketing or you will end up like Sheldon Levine. A broken old man that steals from the company.

The good thing about this is that I do love wireless technology and I love showing people how to use it to improve their lives. I've taught everyone from our CEO down to the rank and file how to use a specific technology (smartphone, mifi, app, calendar, etc) so that they become more efficient. That is a passion of mine so I think that will translate pretty well into the company I'm targeting.

Whether I stay at my current job or find something new, my end goal will always be to move into Marketing. I've tried doing that where I am now, and the wheels are starting to turn, albeit very slow. I should have started this longer ago, but such is life. Now that I know how to talk to people outside of my department about opportunities, I feel confidently that I can take this know-how with me and apply it to wherever I may work.

I have no idea who is Sheldon Levine...edumacate me!

Suave Fedora
Jun 10, 2004

Duckman2008 posted:

Which company are you applying to? If your long term goal is marketing of any sort, and it's a retail sales rep position you are applying to, that's a lot of jumps to get from one to the other. I do retail wireless sales and I love it overall, but my direct paths of promotions overall are management, business sales, things like that. Marketing is a hard one to jump to from what I can tell since they would just hire someone with a specific degree or experience.

Unless you are younger and just starting out, I would def only recommend wireless sales working for corporate and not a franchise. Someone who is 21 might need to work indirect first to get experience, but the pay, benefits and opportunities are just so much better at corporate vs non corporate.

Sending you a PM...

Back it up Terry
Nov 20, 2006

Where do "buyers" fall on the sales map? I'm in logistics / truckload brokerage, I feel like the guys calling carriers and buying trucks are busting their rear end/hustling more than most of the account/sales reps.

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Suave Fedora posted:



I have no idea who is Sheldon Levine...edumacate me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROYuupoGarQ


Suave Fedora posted:

Whether I stay at my current job or find something new, my end goal will always be to move into Marketing.

Since you seem so passionate about phones and apps, I would suggest looking into mobile marketing and targeting. Learn everything there is about it from text marketing, to display ads within aps, to paid search. Lot of large companies want to do it because it is the latest thing. Even though the targeting is great, the effectiveness of mobile ads is miles behind computers and questionable.

But it seems right up your ally.

Snatch Duster fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Apr 24, 2014

Suave Fedora
Jun 10, 2004
I have to watch this movie now.

Mobile marketing is interesting, thanks for mentioning it. I'm already thinking about the myriad reasons why someone would and would not want to click an ad from their cellphone. Context and "is this worth clicking out of my app for?"

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Suave Fedora posted:

I have to watch this movie now.

Mobile marketing is interesting, thanks for mentioning it. I'm already thinking about the myriad reasons why someone would and would not want to click an ad from their cellphone. Context and "is this worth clicking out of my app for?"

Depends on point of the ad, but majority of in app clicks are mistakes.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
I just closed my first major software deal, an upgrade for an existing customer but still pretty cool.

prezbuluskey
Jul 23, 2007
A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.
Im in the associate role of business devo. Its the absolute bottom but I get compensated well for the industry. Cold calling vice presidents and CXOs all day and lying to their admins and operators. I came from a fundraising background so I have been used to asking people things that they don't want to do. The thing about sales is that it is not sales until the prospect says no. People get angry and yell because I am a glorified telemarketer, but scheduling and getting big name CXOs is incredibly rewarding when you get it. It is a good job for social people who were in greek life in college, etc., at least that is the case with my organization.

Snatch Duster
Feb 20, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
Forbes published an interesting article a year ago about using social media to sell.

This also is an interesting and helpful ebook about cold calling, using LinkedIn to research potential prospects. I've been doing this for years and it works, might help some of you newer guys.

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Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene
Anyone have any tips for maintaining motivation while you are crushing it? Early into the half, I managed to nail a huge account so I was riding at 120%. With my pre-existing customers, looking to close the half at a little over 160%. Not bad. Gonna get a whole new target, but that's OK. I haven't been dogging it, per se, I have a wedding to pay for and every extra dollar matters. But I got lucky and landed a huge account and I'll admit that I've been lazier than I should have been since then. It's too late for me not to have a seriously increased number next half, but I have been trying to manage expectations about the repeatability of this kind of a deal. Trying to get back into it (got a couple of really strong prospects, things are going well) but it's hard to act hungry after an all-you-can-eat buffet.

I've been moving, but less than I'd like. Well, that's not true. Yangming teaches that thought/desire and action are one-and-the-same. But that is where self-cultivation comes in. Any suggestions for how to act hungry when you are full? How to set-up the next half (especially after you've really hosed your numbers) without accidentally loving your numbers even more? Right now all I've got is the "aloof salesman game" to draw things out and accepting the attrition But that is a sloppy move and I'd rather get greased with the system.

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