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The issue with the CRC was basically Vancouver and Portland have just to different of a philosophy to get anything done. Many Vancouverites were pissed that light rail was on the bridge, and many Portlandites didn't even want the a new road bridge. In addition, the bridge didn't even make sense for Oregon as a whole, Oregon would have to pay half of the state share when in reality it was mostly a commuter bridge to benefit Vancouver area commuters (as would the light rail). To be honest, I am rather glad the bridge died because it would have likely ballooned in expense and its design didn't even make sense, it would have been 10 lanes in total while 5 bottlenecks down to 6 lanes south of the bridge. In addition, the light rail line only exists to pretty much serve Vancouver commuters as well. If anything Clark County missed out on a pretty good deal for them especially since the Oregon govenor was planning on building the bridge with just Oregon money and tolls at one point. Ultimately, I think the only reason the bridge deal got that far was because there were a lot of money floating around to hopefully pay for it. Also, yeah I certainly prefer Oregon's income tax/no sales tax system to Washington's sales tax/no income tax way of doing things and probably have helped to make the states quite different in a lot of ways.
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Mar 11, 2014 03:40
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illrepute posted:Right, I don't care much about the particulars of the bridge, I just want one that isn't going to be hitting one-hundred years old, especially after all these bridge collapses around the country. Rail would've been nice, but I would take anything to improve safety. The current bridge actually passed inspection not too long ago, and seismic refits are certainly possible. If anything safety isn't as much as a concern as everything else. The current bridge could last a while longer with some improvements and wouldn't readily require a new bridge. As far as rail, without rail traffic probably wouldn't improve since the new bridge doesn't fix Portland's rather minimal freeway system and most of the traffic is to downtown Portland. Rail would at least give another option to the freeway, which may actually alleviate some traffic. That said, I don't know if the bridge itself is that important to Oregonians, especially since it won't impact traffic much either way so trucking doesn't have much to do with it and there is a busy freight rail line and another bridge. I don't think anyone in Oregon is interested in sacrifice for Vancouver area commuters either. Washington's tax system is certainly pretty regressive and it has shown up in the levels of taxes owed by income group, Oregon is very mildly progressive while Washington system is entirely a regressive system based on percentage of income paid in taxes. Oh btw, Costco and the grocery stores are going to almost certainly privatize liquor in Oregon one way or another. We will see if the state budget has to take a big hit if the OLCC gets locked out of wholesaling.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:48
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Kaal posted:It passed inspection sure, but with abysmally low scores. It's considered functionally obsolete, and the two spans received sufficiency ratings of a mere 18% and 49% - an average of 33%. The I-35W Mississippi Bridge in Minneapolis that collapsed in 2007, killing 13 people and injuring 145, had a rating of 50%. Only 4% of heavily used bridges have sufficiency ratings under 50%. Federal funding for bridge repair kicks in at sufficiency rating of 80%, and full on replacement at anything under 50%. It's just a matter of time until that bridge is closed, one way or the other. I think in the end project scaled way back and Washington state pays for most of it. There is still possibility of refit and repair even if federal funding isn't going to it and to be honest even if it has a low ranking, it is still one of the better bridges in the region. The Sellwood bridge is still absolutely hilarious and it is a modern miracle it hasn't snapped in half years ago. There really isn't a way to get around liquor privatization without either the state taking a hit to revenue or taxes going up and usually that means the general public is going to lose on either end. A big issue in Oregon is there is a burgeoning micro-distillation industry that is showcased in state stores that very well may be pushed off the edge in most grocery stores post-privatization. They might be to sell to Bev-mo like superstores but they usually aren't everywhere. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 06:19
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Kaal posted:I'm very curious how the national corporate chains are going to try to spin their privatization scheme in Oregon after it crashed and burned in Washington. Raise prices on booze while draining money out of the state funds and killing jobs? No thanks. Basically they are going to have the legislature do it for them by threat, but the issue is that Salem wants to retain wholesales (it brings in the state a big chunk of the cash) while the groceries/big boxes want total control and no new taxes. Granted, the state would have to bite a big bullet since education is already mediocre at best in Oregon. Then there is the entire O & C issue and the fact there a bunch of counties in Oregon that basically lived off a federal stipend and barely had any property taxes themselves.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:03
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Kaal posted:If they do a last minute end-run around the initiative process I could definitely see that biting the legislature in the rear end come mid-terms. Certainly I wouldn't want to do an incumbency run while getting slammed with attack ads reading, "This representative voted against the people's will to increase alcohol prices and de-fund schools." People take threats to their booze personally. That said, liquor prices would probably be roughly the same (maybe a bit cheaper at Costco) with private sales. Conservatives in Oregon like to bitch that California has cheaper liquor prices when in fact the entire difference in the price of liquor is pretty pure purely tax. California taxes liquor barely at all. Even if grocery stores get it passed, the actual tax on the ethanol itself won't go down so basically everything stays the same except the grocery store makes a profit off the retail sales rather than a state enfranchised store and a private wholesaler makes a profit instead of the OLCC. It could very well the state bites it and then either has to cut the budget (making education measurably worse than it already is) or the dreaded sales tax comes up for another vote. Remember, the Democrats control all branches of power in Oregon and yet it doesn't seem to be that different than the past, possibly even worse.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:36
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Kaal posted:When Washington tried it, they simply got higher prices across the board (except for Costco since they're deliberately eating the margin in the short-term), which drove down overall sales and caused liquor stores to cut jobs in order to meet the increased competition. After some initial market wars, two out-of-state companies converted the state distribution monopoly into a corporate duopoly - just like the rest of the nation. In short it hurt consumers, it hurt state funding, and it hurt small businesses. I don't know why Oregon would have a particularly different experience. A big part of that is that Washington increase distribution fees to make up for the loss in revenue, a certain amount of it is suppose to decline around now. It probably wouldn't be that different than Oregon, but it is possibly that Oregon wouldn't increase any fees while Washington is still re-cooping some of its lost revenue through a new fee regime. It is also the reason why prices are higher, because the state needed to increase revenue from the profits distributors/retailers are taking for themselves. It was honestly pretty lovely for actual Washingtonians and pretty much rule by corporate fiat in a rather literal sense. That said, I think Seattle kind of feels like a mix of Chicago and San Francisco at this point (I know I know). quote:Speaking of Washington, is the state seeing any tax revenue on marijuana? Is the state doing anything positive with it? Stores open in June, so there hasn't been any sales yet. I am sure you will hear it in the papers when the first ones open. I expect there will be a place right on the other side of the i-5 bridge with a line of Portlanders waiting. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 08:24
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ladyboy pancake posted:I would like to remind everyone living in King County that April 22nd is the day we vote to either raise taxes or cut up to 17% of bus services. As previously mentioned, Washington's tax system is terrible, but losing the buses will hit people, especially the poor,harder than the increase will. If it doesn't pass it is going to be a disaster especially since so many people use buses in Seattle, and Seattle traffic as it is, is really quite terrible. It is a bit disquieting to hear these issues in Seattle then look at the construction in SLU and Belltown not to mention property prices across the city. There is a massive amount of money in Seattle itself much less the metro-area but it is taxed very inefficiently.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:34
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Telesphorus posted:Oregon and Washington are weird states. They fascinate me. Depends on what you mean geographically, since Oregon's political map can change drastically county by county. Some of the most conservative counties in the US might very well be in Oregon, and some of the most liberal ones as well. Looking at the ballot measures that have been proposed (everything from clamping down on public unions to legalized weed and gay marriage) there are two very different types of Oregonians. That said, not every part of Oregon outside of Portland and Eugene is conservative. Astoria and the North Coast usually goes democrat, as does Hood River and parts of the Willamette valley. Hood River and Astoria especially do feel a little like Portlandia colonies though at times. I went to a bar in Astoria that was about 8 feet across and looked like it had been skydropped from the SE. Granted, a lot of the democrats in Oregon are pretty typical "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" types and usually are pro-business. Charlie Hales (the Mayor of Portland) falls very much into this category, and seems mostly focused at addressing the homeless issue with batons. In some ways I think Oregon politics is following closer to mainstream American politics, just with a libertarian tinge to it. Obviously there is still a lot of good with the state: it is probably in the close running for one of the most socially liberal states period, especially after this November: Doctor assisted suicide, a suspended death penalty, very liberal free speech laws, and soon gay marriage and recreation marijuana. However, the real downside is that big business (especially Nike/Intel) have a tremendous amount of influence on state politics and pretty much the legislature does what they say. Edit: There is also an issue with education, especially vast differences in property tax rates by county. Usually the most liberal counties have very high rates and contribute considerably to their public schools while many rural counties barely have property taxes at all and mostly live on federal funds or direct contributions from the state. So there is tension between the conservative "free loader" counties and urban counties over tax dollars, Oregon education is rather dismal across the board except for OHSU. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 22:37
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Eh Portlandia basically just makes fun of the hippies/lefter leaning weirdos and ignores that even in Portland itself there is an entire other realm of reactionary wackos that are as or more extreme. I guess the hippies and the hipsters are inoffensive compared to a literal skinheads. The best is when the two sides mix.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:11
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Well, most of those on the other end of the spectrum from Portlandia's hippies and hipsters have moved across the river to Vancouver. It's basically a refugee camp for bitter Republicans who want to live in a state with no income tax and be within driving distance of a state with no sales tax. They also complained about the light rail on the Columbia River Crossing because it would bring It isn't just Clark or Clackamas county, eastern Portland is also quite a different mixed bag. It isn't like Tigard or Beaverton are really that liberal either. If anything "hippy" Porlandia are some some pretty discreet areas in SE/NE Portland west of the 82nd/205.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:01
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Some of the suburbs outside of Portland get a bad rap. While they may not be "liberal" in the left wing politics sense, they can often be more diverse and many are home to thriving minority communities. While Korean Christians, Indian business owners, and Mexican laborers might not be liberal by Portland hippy standards, they sure aren't conservative by CPAC standards. There are immigrant communities in Beaverton and in Washington County in general, but it is in general pretty white bread as a whole including aggressive police, lots of nimbyism and plenty of big boxes. Overall, if you want to see something interesting you go to Portland, if you want to see a cop in a Dodge Chargers make loops around a Best Buy, you go to Beaverton. The politics are a real mixed bag too, there is a real recent surge against public transit and while Washington County is very modestly Democrat, it is by thin margin. The western extensions of Beaverton are pretty grim too, they way overbuilt a bunch of really cheap looking housing and there is very little open space or public services to speak of. Washington County gets deserves a lot of the reputation it gets, there are some good restaurants here and there but eh, give me those hippies at least they can brew some beer.
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Mar 12, 2014 10:05
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Pope Fabulous XXIV posted:Just today I passed a bus bench that was slanted so steeply that you couldn't possibly sit on it, just sort of lean against it. At this point, why even have a bus bench at all? It still had the dividing bar too. For show I guess, I haven't seen those before though. Anyway, the homeless issue in Portland is giant and there is pretty much a giant (and rightful divide) between people who want more city spending on homeless services and basically "arrest them and throw them in jail" crowd lead by Hales and his friends the Portland Business Alliance. Recently, Portland has started a pilot program where they first start charging people for minor crimes (loitering, littering), issue a summons for them and when they fail to show up, issue arrest warrants for them. So basically the grant strategy of Portland political and business elite is to more or less just fill the jails with people for even the most minor crimes. In addition, There is also a 3 month waiting period for shelters because there simply aren't enough for them even for families on the street. We'll see how this grand plan does into action.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:30
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Ernie Muppari posted:For loving serious? What, are they just going to arrest half of everyone who goes downtown? Well not the paying customers obviously (they will just ticket people who look homeless). It is a way to get around to the now dead "sit-lie" law that was declared unconstitutional, which theoretically would allow police to roust anyone who "sits or lies" on the sidewalk. Ever since it was struck down, downtown businesses have been trying to find a way to get around it and the new pilot program is the latest example. On big thing is that the business community absolutely hates kids who arrive during the summer downtown and wants them gone with no exceptions. "Portlandia" is not as liberal as advertised. As far as Eugene, I get a kick out of the "no bus expansion" signs. To be honest, Eugene seems kind of a empty town even for its relative smallish size. There just doesn't seem to be a lot going on there period especially for a college town, some strip malls, housing and maybe a handful of bars. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 22:19
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Fragmented posted:Yeah I'm facing being another homeless 30 year old here in P-Town if I can't make something happen in a couple weeks and it will not be fun. At least its not Manhattan I guess. But yeah the shelter situation is horrible. At least we still have food stamps... Well good luck man, at least it has gotten a lot warmer recently and at least we seem beyond any frost. There isn't much advice to give about public services, but might be another attempt to setup a camp in front of city hall? quote:Woah woah woah, I haven't really paid attention to Eugenian politics since I moved away, please tell me more about how the hill-people are upset that there might be more busses. Well to be exact it is going to be expansion of the BRT (Buses with their own right away) route over to the West side, the big issue seems be that a bunch of auto shops are going to lose some parking/turf in front since they are going to expand the road. It is going to be a mess for a while, but BRT is already about as low cost as you can go beyond just not doing anything beyond more local buses. One thing about Oregon politics it is hard to pigeon hole it, there is plenty of deeply racist people in Oregon but it isn't necessary persuasive like the South. If anything Oregon's politics is so all over the politics you can always find something to hate. Portland is still a very liberal town especially for the United States, but much of its current government and its past clashes with its present. Oregon is sort of like dropping extra large version of Berkeley and a few college towns into West Virginia and then see how it works out.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:38
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glowing-fish posted:So does anyone have any thoughts about marijuana legalization in Oregon? I imagine that it is going to follow suit in legalization. Washington and Oregon have very similar electorates, and the consensus about why legalization failed in Oregon in 2012 was that the bill was badly written and promoted. If Oregon has the same type of campaign as Washington did in 2012, it seems to be probable it would pass. Oregon will have recreational marijuana by the end of the year, it is still a very open question about what type of system will be in place as there are multiple (potential) ballot measures that are far more liberal than Washington State's system and at the same time the Oregon legislature is trying to draft a more conservative option to head the other measures off at the pass. It is unclear who will win out in the end or even the real details are except you will be able to buy taxed marijuana in stores at some point.
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Mar 14, 2014 21:40
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Hales and the police have been taking a increasingly hardliner approach, including against the homeless population. Hales was sold as a reasonable progressive, in actuality he is a bit of a right authoritarian. That might seem to be hyperbole, but his policy against the homeless population (as I mentioned above) is draconian, and the situation at the Blue Monk does seem racially motivated to an extent or at least the desire is for "that sort of element" to be suppressed near a Zupan's. That said, the 2012 election was really something else, especially how aggressive the Oregonian went after Jefferson Smith (not to mention WW and even the Mercury to some extent). It more or less allowed Hales to win by default, and since that point he has treated it as a "strong mayor" city executive when the city was always more or less run like a small oligarchy. Smith made problems for himself, the spin was pretty amazing. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 10:56
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You can also make an argument that while the Oregonian was right-leaning centrist for most of its history, in the last 2-3 years it has moved much rather right focusing on pet issue like trying to get buzz about a "sales tax" that the general public generally loathes. Calling the Oregonian of today "centrist" is pretty ridiculous to be honest. As far alternatives, there are actually relatively much more liberal weekly papers in Portland, the Portland Mercury and Willamette Week that actually have been gradually been expanding their coverage of local and state politics. You could look at it as a bad sign that free weeklies are now the go to source from news, but many they were just ahead of the ball in the first place. There is also the Tribune which isn't a independent weekly, and use to be the relatively "conservative" paper but at this point the Oregonian has passed them on the right. As far as Oregon's political history, you could make a strong argument that Hatfield and McCall were pretty liberal for Republicans, and that Oregon's political process was rather divergent from national trends for a while as there was still a relatively strong legacy of Rockefeller/liberal Republicans past the 60s. The process is still in bit of flux as the state GOP starts purging its remaining moderates.
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Mar 18, 2014 22:50
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To be honest, I think Washington state really needs an income tax, trying to fund basic services through fees and sales taxes are going to have its limits with the public (especially since they are both regressive). Also, it goes back to the other issue of pushing high rise housing, how are high density districts going to work if you don't have much of a rail system to begin with and cut remaining bus services? The freeway systems in Seattle are already overloaded and compared to even Portland there isn't much an alternative. Development is fine to an extent but you actually need to build infrastructure, and the SLUT isn't going to cut it on its own.
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Apr 7, 2014 08:16
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Granted, is the hit to shipping going to be greater than the hit Oregon might take from funding that thing especially considering the state's politics at the moment. It almost certainly is going to see giant program overruns which ultimately the state is going to have to pay for, which means Salem either has to raise taxes/fees or deny other infrastructure in the state more than already is planned. Jobs from the port are important and everything, but are they more important than the potentially high fiscal downsides that will hit Oregon? Remember, Oregon probably won't be able to enforce tolls (and fines) without Washington assistance and even the highest functional tolls are probably not going to cover the whole thing as it is.
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Apr 16, 2014 10:22
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Also if anything light rail would be the thing that would probably help most with traffic, the plan for the bridge doesn't fix the I-5 corridor itself which is still going to be a bottleneck regardless of what bridge it connects to. The Yellow line at least would bypass it straight into downtown. I do think a part of it is also ideological or part of a weird rivalry, mass transit is a "Socialist-Portland" concept that needs to be fought just because it is from Portland, just check out the comment section on any SW Washington newspaper. Portland and Clark County are just not going to see eye to eye and it is probably going to have to wait until the bridge actually collapses on itself, if even then. Granted, the comment sections in Oregon if anything often at just as bad, jesus the Oregonian's sections are truly something else.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:07
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Mojo Threepwood posted:I visited Portland for the day and their downtown seems much more walkable than Seattle. I was impressed by the packed, clean streetcars that kept going by, especially how they weren't covered in ads for casinos or "WE BUY GOLD." Plus Powell's Books was fantastic as usual. Are there some serious downsides to Portland that I'm missing? Lack of a pro-football team ? Eh jobs is the big one, or at least jobs that can pull a salary like in Seattle. The cost of living is less but often salaries don't even match that.
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May 4, 2014 00:32
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Pope Fabulous XXIV posted:The problem with driving in Portland isn't the traffic, necessarily. Not for me, anyway. I mean, yeah, stay off the freeways around rush hour if you can avoid it. It's that the city is a goddamn maze of narrow one-way streets and major arterials that still want to be Main Street, USA with parking on both sides. Hope you like blind corners and making unlighted left turns into oncoming traffic! Signs tend to be unreadable or nonexistent and all maps are from a slightly different parallel universe (not the same one, though). Don't miss your turn, or the Minotaur will get you! What lane should you be in? YOU DON'T KNOW THAT'S THE FUN. You'd better merge left, though, 'cause that's a parked car in front of you. Yes, in your lane. Not on the side. Just in the road, being a parked car. Some of it is purposeful since they needed a way to basically graft both a light rail and a streetcar system on a pre-existing grid and that obviously caused some weird issues, especially downtown. Also, there has been some "experiments" with developing one-way couplets especially on East Burnside that are pretty notoriously frustrating. Also, I think a good amount of it is just Oregonian small government weirdness about not wanting to spent money on signs. It seems ridiculously but a lot of the state budget and local budgets are run on a ridiculous shoestring. (Also, it might just be to confuse and annoy Californian transplants). Anyway, the MAX system itself was almost entirely funded by the federal government because Trimet and local governments basically figured out a way to game the federal grant system. Also then there are just the bike lanes and other random improvements that add another layer on top of it. As far as getting bored in Portland, it depends on what you want out of life pretty much. I think it is a nice mix if you are looking for a rather specific type of lifestyle but if want to live in a real metropolitan area, Seattle would be a better pick that also comes with its own downsides. I think the transportation system is almost LA quality and corporate influence on life is far more striking.
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May 4, 2014 20:55
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:My understanding was that MAX construction basically got funded with the federal dollars that would have gone to freeway construction. It might have been just the initial segment of the blue and the rest was put together with smart grant writing. I have heard that before as well, but I wonder if it was just meant that money that was eventually going to spent on the freeway system just happened to be put into starting the MAX through a different mechanism. Even so, the Portland metro area and Oregon actually put very little money in building it out. It isn't a bad thing though, why shouldn't the federal government built out infrastructure if it fits their rules? I am really glad the Hood Freeway was never built, just think it they had literally bulldozed through the residential neighborhoods of the SE for it and I don't know if it would have really made much of a different as far as traffic since the really bottlenecks are around downtown and the I-5.
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May 5, 2014 01:07
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Yeah, it was a lot more than "hippies" that voted against it as well, Portland also has its own hard right edge to it at times as well. If anything it was a real grab bag coalition that got riled up about it. It didn't help it was a low turn out local election in late May. I think the push against fluoridation is as hell as well but you take the good with the bad. That said, it would suck if this thread just turned into a OR v WA or PDX v SEA slap fight because to be honest both states have similarities but also their own unique problems.
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May 5, 2014 18:51
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Hedera Helix posted:To answer your first question: Belmont Station, which is on Stark street, has a really good selection. John's Market in Multnomah Village really outshines them both in selection and service, maybe a bit in price as well. I thought the service at Belmont Station was really bad, some of the worse I have seen in Portland, which actually matters quite a bit in a beer store. Belmont station is in the SE though. If you are talking about Seattle Beer, I think Elysium is their crown jewel, I haven't been that impressed with the rest. Seattle is more of a bourbon town anyway... to an extreme. Any Oregonian opinions on Fort George?
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Jul 6, 2014 11:27
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TheSnowySoviet posted:Give their witbier ("Quick Wit") a try. I will, so have you had the OPA? I like Astoria, but admittedly it might be due to the fact that it is less depressed than the rest of coastal Oregon. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 19:59
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highme posted:I haven't been to Belmont Station more then once or twice, so I can't really comment on their service, but the guys at John's Market were such dicks the last few times I was there that I have given up on them. Sobbery is pretty epidemic across Portland, I am not that surprised about you being treated poorly at John's, although I have only encountered "moderate" dickishness. I do think their selection is very tough to beat. If I want a Tusker or Eastern European/Russian beer I go to John's, they have some of a little of everything across the map. quote:Has anybody been able to try the Commons Trillium that was released last Thursday? It's a wild farmhouse with brettanomyoces & lactobacillus yeast strains. I'm hoping to get to there brewpub to try it soon. Sounds interesting, makes me wish I wasn't stuck in the former Soviet union where beer selection (beyond 3000 different variations Soviet-style Viennese lager) is dire. If you like beer, living in Portland is quite a privilege.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:57
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anthonypants posted:Oregon's ACA healthcare exchange was a massive clusterfuck after it was rolled out, and we eventually dropped it this year in favor of using the federal exchange instead. If you haven't seen the video yet, John Oliver covered it on his HBO show. One of the things he made fun of was the twee garbage ads they made for Cover Oregon, and the advertising company hired to do those ads got really upset and responded in an open letter on their blog. John Oliver's rant really shows how none of the rest of the US really has any idea what Oregon actually is like, and just takes the usual half-assed route like Portlandia does. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 04:15
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FRINGE posted:I thought that until I spent some time there and constantly thought I was standing in the middle of some kind of Portlandia candid-camera poo poo. That is pretty much Portland between 10th and 60th ish street south of Burnside and north of Powell with some expections. Go to Beaverton, Gresham, Canby much less Medford or even Lincoln City and you are going to get a very different perspective. The interesting part is why you never hear about the "other Oregon" but the people who live in a confined areas in one city.
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Aug 9, 2014 10:27
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FRINGE posted:Ive been to Beaverton. The first word that comes to mind is banal. Like it was fine, and nothing distinct comes to mind. Yeah my point, significant parts (maybe most) of the Portland metro area is a banal and mostly white (especially in Washington county but certainly not only in Washington county). quote:Agreed. Those are some bizarrely specific choices for a bunch of places that aren't really all that distinctive or memorable, at least not in a way that would be worth defining them as the "other Oregon." I am sorry but most of the other Oregon is not that memorable, it is a place that is there with limited employment opportunities and trees as long as you live in the western half of the state (limited employment opportunities and no trees in the east). Oregon isn't typified by Portlandia, hell not even Portland is. Most of Oregon sort of sits there, especially on the coast. I like those areas for what they are but you have to embrace the fact Oregon is really really not about central Portland. quote:Have you never been to NE or NoPo? Mississippi/Vancouver and Alberta are those "few other places" but there are still black residents trying to hold on around are generally invisible to anyone talking about "Portlandia" and have been quickly pushed out the last few years. Most of Northern Portland is in fact very working class especially along Lombard to the Port. Go west of the I-5 and it is going to be pretty working class, go east of 33th on Killingsworth and it is going to looking like an industrial section of Southern California. Hell many people consider 82nd street and Lents" out there". Then there are the immigrant communities no one really talks about, especially around 82nd which there is a big Chinese/Vietnamese community and around Lents where there is a loose Russian/Ukrainian community. So even if you talk about the SE, there is a lot more than the SE that has been "claimed" by those who live on Division. I don't even need to mention East Portland (the forgotten Portland) or Gresham. quote:I wonder, would people be more amenable to infill apartments if they used different architectural styles than a lot of the things that were built within the past 10-15 years? Would it be possible for buildings to have more pleasant-looking exteriors without increasing construction costs too much, or is it not much of a factor? To be honest most of the new apartments/condos I have seen in the NW and the SE look look like they were airdropped from somewhere in Southern California. Also you now have the ridiculous situation of large 4-5 story buildings looming over detached single family homes. It must suck to have lived in a neighborhood decades and then you got a bunch of apartments looking into your house/yard because the city decided to be ridiculous about zoning. Also the city is allowing them to build an apartment building right on top of that open space around the Burnside bridgehead right after they spent all that effort routing a bunch of traffic through there. Construction is going to probably clog up multiple main arteries and it will be a giant poo poo show for a while. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 22:00
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Hedera Helix posted:I have mixed feelings about infill, too, but it seems that the alternative would be for the single-family houses to continue to explode in value. When new housing is blocked, after some time the only people living in the existing stock would be the rich, and middle-class white people who (depending on the neighborhood) bought anytime between the seventies and the turn of the millennium. It's not like the rate of people moving to the city is going to slow down any time soon, absent another recession. I don't think the issue is new housing but the way infill housing is being done is usually sort of nuts. I say a 5 story building build on a single-family lot with no parking...that doesn't need to happen. If anything "townhouse" style buildings would make more sense and even then they need to either have a new permitting system or have some parking available. A big issue is that public transit in the SE especially isn't that fantastic and if people bring over their cars it is going to become a huge mess. Portlandia is a dumb and very lazy show but unfortunately it seems to have branded the city to people who never actually been there.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:51
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highme posted:gently caress a street car, it's just an overpriced way to get people past the stigma of riding mass transit. Busses handle what street cars do just fine without the expensive infrastructure upgrades. The only real benefit to street car lines is economic development along the fixed routes. I think the Streetcar has a place and for the most part has reached the goals it needed to which is mostly a circulator around the CBD and some nearby neighborhoods. In the sense of taxes and development, it has probably paid for itself or will in a short amount of time and most of the money came for it came from TIFs and federal money. That said, it isn't a solution to the larger woes commuter woes of Portland and unfortunately there is already a crisis because the MAX isn't widespread or heavy enough to meet population growth and Portland's freeway system really isn't designed for a metro area of over a million. For the most part the freeway system is saturated as it is, and so are a lot of the MAX lines during peak commuting times. It isn't going to be easy to fix either because expanding freeways is extremely expensive and there really isn't extra room to put more lanes. They could possibly expand the 217 but the tunnel on the 26 is 3 lanes in either direction and there is no way it can be expanded. The 5, 84 or the 405 really can't be expanded either. quote:You're right, of course. I just felt that a streetcar expansion might be a better way to get hawthorn, Alberta, and the like on the grid without the bigger footprint of the max. I've always wondered why more systems don't use elevated trains like Chicago but I'm sure there is a good reason. And yeah, I'm positive that the max expansion to Barbur will die early for the same reasons the Lake O and Vancouver ones did. Middle class people with two car garages are afraid of poors riding transit out to their neighborhood and robbing them that, and they don't see any benefit in not driving. Living in Chicago (which is probably the worse place for an elevated system ironically enough), it is loud as hell, stations are exposed to the elements (not really an issue in Portland) and infrastructure is usually more especially if you go with wood ties....like Chicago does. Chicago has the system it does because a lot of those right of ways were built in late 19th/early 20th century. Otherwise, you would have to tear our buildings to build those lines. Anyway, the transportation issue doesn't have much of a magic bullet. MAX expansion, Bus funding and maybe BRT would be an improvement but I don't think it will be enough.
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Aug 10, 2014 01:01
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The Eastside expansion was more of a gently caress up but ultimately the city didn't really pay that much for its system, the issue is more than a lot of tax money in improved neighborhoods hasn't been released back to the tax base yet which has starved the budget. Tax Increment Financing works by the act that property taxes that result from improved property values in an area are used to finance improvements (or bonds to pay for improvements) in that area. The Pearl has exploded and its property values skyrocketed but the city still only a silver of the money from them. Ultimately, the there is talk about wrapping these districts up one by one. Anyway, besides transportation there is the second big issue in Portland, homelessness. Recently the city has decided to start citing homeless structures for "illegal structures" with the possibility of them having to show up in court, their property is impounded and their pets are taken away to shelters. Needless to say, many of these people who can barely say their name much less work though the legal system, and there has been a massive back up (3 months+) in shelters. Basically, Portland is starting to simply jail people for being homeless (many of them people with mental problems that should be in care) with absolutely no plan even to provide shelter space because it is cheaper (well theoretically). http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/the-secret-weapon/Content?oid=11833364 Ardennes fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 04:06
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Local traffic on the freeways during rush hour isn't the issue. In the evening, half the cars stuck on I-5 NB north of the 405 have Washington plates. One way to try to attack the issue is seriously redo how Trimet is funded, Trimet has to fund itself for the most part (a reason why fares are sky high) with a limited .7% payroll tax (which is also flat). Ultimately, one way to increase funding is to make it progressive and add new brackets to it and spent that money on improving bus services greatly.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:28
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xrunner posted:IIRC Hales ran on a promise to gently caress over the homeless. Correct me if I'm wrong. He's certainly done his best since taking office. Basically his only opponent during the race imploded because the Oregonian and the local media ran a daily story for weeks about the fact he once punched a girl in college at a party. That said, your right though Hales was anti-homeless from the beginning and even the Mercury backed him. Portland sure is wacky isn't it.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:37
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anthonypants posted:That and his driver's license got revoked like seven times in ten years? Remember that Hales has plenty of dirt in his past and was actively living in Washington to get around taxes and dumped his city council job for better pay (not to mention was bought by the Portland Business Alliance). So we got a mayor that can drive and didn't punch any women in college we know of but absolutely doesn't give a poo poo about the city itself. I wasn't in love with Smith either but it isn't a surprise the city is going to way it is with Hales. I have a feeling the council is also going to go much more business friendly in the future as well. Also, the street fee head tax is a terrible idea, as was the arts head tax.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:27
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Thanatosian posted:You guys should just rebuild that bridge on your own, then toll the poo poo out of it. At this point Vancouver/Clark County is happy to build the bridge now the CRC is finally dead, just without tolls, rail and Oregon has to pay half of the local costs. It sounds like a deal. Also some politician up there wants to build a freeway bridge up near Camas to Troutdale (literally on the edge of wilderness)...he probably has already told a bunch of his buddies to buy property around there. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 05:29
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anthonypants posted:It's not like the CRC project wasn't without problems; we couldn't get the Coast Guard to sign off on the design because the bridge they decided on was too low after how many years of planning? And then they started freaking out because it was running up to the deadline to get the federal money. God. Oh no doubt the CRC was a disaster but the tolls (absolutely necessary to pay for it) and the light rail wasn't the issue with it...almost everything else with it was. The CRC would have been 5 which fed into the 3 lane I-5 south of the river, it wasn't high enough and most of the transit improvements were focused in Washington among many of its issues.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:46
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kensei posted:Only if you own a house and/or have a bunch of deductions. OR taxes can eat a fat bag of dicks. I don't see a reason why people with jobs in Oregon shouldn't pay Oregon taxes. If they didn't want to pay income taxes they could just work in Washington State.
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Aug 12, 2014 07:26
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FRINGE posted:WA loves sales tax and hates income tax. Yeah which also is the most regressive way to do things possible beyond a high VAT.
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Aug 12, 2014 08:57
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