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scamtank posted:Yeah, it's an enormous waste. You'd have to be drunk and mad to do so. Nobody asked if it was a sane thing to do, though! I know that my one unskilled dwarf who wore an adamantine cloak (made by accident) survived what his legendary bronze wearing buddies didn't. He had a ton of injuries dorfs usually get when fighting enemies armed with blunt weapons, but nothing of the choppy sort, even though he fought sword dudes. Could be an accident, but I doubt it.
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Mar 16, 2014 20:03
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I don't think anyone doubts that adamantine cloaks provide superior protection. The question is weather they wear into threadbare rags just as fast as cloth cloaks.
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Mar 16, 2014 21:15
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AXE COP posted:Or just turn on fastdwarf and stop giving a poo poo! (don't do this if you have a fishery or you'll rapidly accumulate 1000+ raw fish) Unless the fish are turtles so you can make lots of crafts. Although trading does become dangerous after a while, with out thinking about it I offered a bunch of turtle crafts to a elven caravan in a wooden bin  Barely survived the elven siege the following year.
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Mar 16, 2014 21:30
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Okay, I took it on myself to do some experiments. I made two extra cloaks. One with CHAIN_ALL elasticity, the other with CHAIN_METAL, otherwise identical to the ordinary one with WOVEN_THREAD. I adjusted the plant thread and leather to be as absolutely rigid and resistant as adamantine - 5 million yield and fracture strengths, zero elasticity. Take two expert swordsdwarves to the Arena with steel longswords, give each one a cloak and see what happens. Results: it looks like I listened to the wrong man. Urist seems to have been wrong. STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_WOVEN_THREAD caps shear strengths to a very low value (20000 yield, 30000 fracture) and sets strain on yield to 50000, but only applies if the garment is made from plant fiber or wool. STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL sets strain on yield to 50000, but only applies if the garment is made from metal. STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL sets strain on yield to 50000 no matter what it's made from. If the elasticity tag doesn't apply, the garment is as strong and rigid as the material can be. It doesn't mean much with leather's vanilla values, but hey.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:15
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Alexzandvar posted:Unless the fish are turtles so you can make lots of crafts. I have done this several times, yet have not been on the receiving end of a siege from elves yet. I have had 100 goblins and 10 trolls in a single siege, but not a single elven siege yet.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:22
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Do they really siege you just from trade offers? I thought it was tied to tree felling.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:30
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Is there a way to Measure the amount of pressure in pressurized liquids? I know they will flow til they reach the level of the origin point, if they are an infinite source but how about finite amounts under pressure?
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Mar 16, 2014 22:31
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AXE COP posted:Do they really siege you just from trade offers? I thought it was tied to tree felling. I've been executing elven traders without repercussions on a regular basis. I suspect only tree culling causes sieges, and upsetting or murdering traders just stops them from sending traders.
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Mar 16, 2014 22:33
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It depends on how angry/reactive your local elven population is. So it's a hit or miss if you get a siege. I just have really lovely luck when it comes to not pissing off elves. I accidentally offended a elven trader and found myself under siege year round because there was a TON of elves on the world I made my fort on, so much like anything in Dorf Fort it's just a crap shoot.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:03
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Alexzandvar posted:It depends on how angry/reactive your local elven population is. So it's a hit or miss if you get a siege. I just have really lovely luck when it comes to not pissing off elves. I much prefer this than rigid conditions where something happens everytime given the player's identical input.
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Mar 16, 2014 23:54
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The best is when a dwarf just makes an artifact adamantine cloak.
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Mar 17, 2014 07:45
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Met posted:I much prefer this than rigid conditions where something happens everytime given the player's identical input. Me too. I eagerly await the time when my 'gently caress off with your wooden swords' policy leads to a savage and horrible death of the fortress.
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Mar 17, 2014 07:53
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Moridin920 posted:The best is when a dwarf just makes an artifact adamantine cloak. granite encrusted granite bed, yeah good work rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 17, 2014 17:27
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Pound_Coin posted:granite encrusted granite bed, yeah good work rear end in a top hat. It helps the user not take things for granite. 
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Mar 17, 2014 17:32
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My fort's FPS has decayed to the point where it has become virtually uncontrollable. There are over 50 dogs and 50 cats, despite the fact that they're all queued up for slaughter at my 4 butcher shops, and they keep multiplying. There are loving discarded clothes EVERYWHERE, messing things up and requiring ever more calculations to keep track of. My outside is littered with skeletons and whatnot, I have about 20 undead dwarf prisoners that I cannot assign to a pit and are therefore hard to get rid of. I'm working on a bunch of shafts straight down to the magma sea just to get a more efficient dumping system, but I really should've done that from the beginning. The socks especially are annoying because it's such horseshit and there seems to be nothing you can do about it once the problem gets out of hand. Even if i slayrace all the dogs and cats things don't improve by much, their corpses still litter the hallway and require cleanup. I guess it's one of those entropic deaths again. All of my games end like an episode of Hoarders, with my dwarves living in piles of filth and dead cats to the point where they stop moving. I need to start figuring out minecart dumping systems. Actually I think the solution for my fortress is exactly what they do on Hoarders; I'll use therapist to assign all of my dwarves nothing except for hauling jobs, and then just designate everything I don't need for dumping, and not stop until the entire fortress is clean. gently caress sieges, I'll just lock the door and give them the finger. After that I will assign only useful dwarves professions again and execute the useless ones. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 17:37
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Shibawanko posted:Even if i slayrace all the dogs and cats things don't improve by much, their corpses still litter the hallway and require cleanup. I guess it's one of those entropic deaths again. If you're using dfhack anyway, maybe try some of the cleanup utilities that help with all this stuff? Also: cage all the excess dogs and cats. A cat or dog already marked as pregnant will still give birth (right through the bars), but animals in cages can't conceive so once you get past that rush, you'll stop getting more puppies and kittens. For the undead prisoners, build their cages on a platform attached to a support attached to a lever, suspended over magma, and then drop them in.
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Mar 17, 2014 17:56
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Make sure you don't atom smash your junk. It just permanently hides the items, and they will still cause lag.
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Mar 17, 2014 18:34
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here's what I do in that situation:code:code:Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 18:35
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Thanks, that fixed it somewhat, still there's a lot of clothes scattered around though, unworn, tattered stuff. I'm just going to mark them all for dumping by hand I guess. FPS is still suspiciously slow though, so maybe some creature is just having pathing problems...
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Mar 17, 2014 19:30
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I'll ask the obvious question: did you open hell?
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Mar 17, 2014 19:31
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Pound_Coin posted:granite encrusted granite bed, yeah good work rear end in a top hat. No see I padded it with these menacing granite spikes its totally comfortable.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:44
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Bad Munki posted:I'll ask the obvious question: did you open hell? Actually I think I found the solution, a weretortoise was hanging out on the edges of the map next to a herd of yaks. I think they were stuck in some kind of pathfinding loop bullshit because as soon as one of my dwarves spotted them they jumped into action and the monster started chasing the yak herd and my FPS went back to normal. The yak kicked him in the head and he scampered off in human form.
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Mar 17, 2014 19:47
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Speaking of FPS and path-finding, is there some definitive answer to how much fort layout affects FPS and which layouts work best? My (poor) understanding of the path-finding algorithm is that it's best to have short, straight paths on a single z-level (apparently stairs are terrible). On that assumption, I tried putting almost everything on a single open level, surrounded by stockpiles, but it didn't work all that well (125-200 fps at the moment, with 114 dwarves). It's hard to say how that compares to my usual forts though, as I haven't done much testing. In any case much of the FPS-loss is probably because I opened up the first cavern and have way too much crap... 
Apoffys fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 21:07
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Apoffys posted:Speaking of FPS and path-finding, is there some definitive answer to how much fort layout affects FPS and which layouts work best? The way the pathing works is that dwarves look at all possible ways to get to a destination, then pick the fastest one. If you've just got a big open space like that, there's a bunch of different possible paths to various stockpiles, versus just having a 1-tile wide hallway to each location. You basically want to reduce the amount of mined out tiles as much as possible while still allowing for nice aesthetics depending on how you like it - my hallways are usually 3 tiles wide.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:11
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Every single dirt tile exposed to underground air is also subject to moss growth calculations. Clothes and harvested plants also go through "is it rotting?" checks. e: My advice? No socks for the proletariat.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:14
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What is the minimum amount of clothes required to not have negative thoughts? Would it just be shirt/trousers/shoes or something? Can you use dresses or robes in place of both the shirts and the trousers?
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Mar 17, 2014 22:19
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Lower body, upper body and feet in that order, I think. Dwarves are miffed to go without shoes, but going barechested or pantsless is an embarrassment. A robe and some shoes should suffice.
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Mar 17, 2014 22:23
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Moridin920 posted:The way the pathing works is that dwarves look at all possible ways to get to a destination, then pick the fastest one. Ok, I must have misunderstood then. I looked at a few examples of A* (apparently the algorithm used in DF) and it seemed like it would take a straight path if possible without considering all other paths. Like in this .gif, it doesn't start considering other paths until the straight path is blocked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*#Example super fart shooter posted:What is the minimum amount of clothes required to not have negative thoughts? Would it just be shirt/trousers/shoes or something? Can you use dresses or robes in place of both the shirts and the trousers? From the Wiki: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Clothing posted:Dwarves may incur several different clothing-related bad thoughts from: Apoffys fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 17, 2014 |
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Mar 17, 2014 22:24
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Apoffys posted:Ok, I must have misunderstood then. I looked at a few examples of A* (apparently the algorithm used in DF) and it seemed like it would take a straight path if possible without considering all other paths. I had a post explaining a bit more before I found this thread and I think it does a better job than I did: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=128855.0 but basically you're right that it takes the shortest path if possible, but it still has to search all nearby accessible tiles and their traffic weight to determine the shortest path before it can take it. I also found this tool which is interesting to play around with: http://qiao.github.io/PathFinding.js/visual/ I'm not sure which heuristic DF uses though (I want to say either Manhattan or Euclidean), or how toady has modified the A* code for his own use.
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Mar 17, 2014 23:07
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Apoffys posted:Ok, I must have misunderstood then. I looked at a few examples of A* (apparently the algorithm used in DF) and it seemed like it would take a straight path if possible without considering all other paths. I have only ever heard that Toady wrote his own pathfinding code, from scratch. He does not use off the shelf algorithms for anything (although a few years ago, some of his graphics code was replaced by volunteers with some better off the shelf stuff, which among other things, allowed truetype and resizable windowing).
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Mar 17, 2014 23:08
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Leperflesh posted:I have only ever heard that Toady wrote his own pathfinding code, from scratch. He does not use off the shelf algorithms for anything (although a few years ago, some of his graphics code was replaced by volunteers with some better off the shelf stuff, which among other things, allowed truetype and resizable windowing). He mentioned he used A* for pathfinding in one of the talks.
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Mar 18, 2014 00:12
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Although if you still have that fort saved I'd be interested to see the effects of traffic designations; keep it a big open area and instead of walls use a bunch of restricted traffic designations and see how that changes the FPS. As an aside you guys should totally use minecarts to power quantum stockpiles. I have 1000 stones in 1 tile it's great. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 01:30
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I've never bothered to set up anything minecart related. It just seems like a lot of work and complexity for little immediate benefit. One day I'll learn how to make dwarven rollercoasters though. VVV You can just have a dwarf dig a series of up/down staircases straight down for fastest level traversal. There's no way to avoid having them dig into something hazardous without predicting it ahead of time though. That said, I think even if they dig an up/down staircase that, say, empties out straight over a magma pit they won't fall into it unless something hit them while climbing the stairs. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 05:48
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Carsius posted:Make sure you don't atom smash your junk. Okay.  Speaking of junk management, is there a convenient way to make a tunnel straight down without killing a dwarf in the magma sea or have extra tunnels leading out of it?
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Mar 18, 2014 06:19
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Internet Kraken posted:I've never bothered to set up anything minecart related. It just seems like a lot of work and complexity for little immediate benefit. One day I'll learn how to make dwarven rollercoasters though.
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Mar 18, 2014 07:02
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Tried DF again: Controls still lovely, Adventure mode still the best: 
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Mar 18, 2014 07:08
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I forgot that one of the domestic creatured I added needs to be housed in a safe area due to its periodic venting of smog. Smog which can cause fires. So not two months after embarking and I already managed to reduce my entire starting area to an ash covered wasteland. Amazingly, nobody died. A few animal got roasted but as far as I can tell the only dwarf injury was a carpenter, whose head caught on fire. She didn't die though, all her head fat just melted off 
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 07:57
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Internet Kraken posted:She didn't die though, all her head fat just melted off NEW! Are you tired of being fat? Can you not stop stuffing plump helmets into your mouth at every opportunity? Do you just want to turn your life around and reinvent yourself? We at Overseercorp bring you the newest weight lost regime. Pyrosuction. Watch the fat literally melt away! Lose pounds in minutes! Gain new scars and fantastic stories to impress that special dwarf in your life! (Remember! everyone dig scars!) Our partial domesticated Fire Smog Beasts will expertly melt all that unsightly blubber from your body, leaving a new, thinner, impressively scarred you! Don't wait! Sign up today!
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Mar 18, 2014 10:18
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Moridin920 posted:Although if you still have that fort saved I'd be interested to see the effects of traffic designations; keep it a big open area and instead of walls use a bunch of restricted traffic designations and see how that changes the FPS. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1320684/region1.rar Have at it. This was made with PeridexisErrant LNP r48 and the Phoebus tileset, but I don't know if that matters.
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Mar 18, 2014 13:03
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Is there any material added by the masterwork mod that is better than adamantine for the purpose of making weapons/armor?
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Mar 19, 2014 03:18
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