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Lol
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Apr 23, 2024 20:09
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| # ? May 3, 2024 19:12 |
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I got it, what about making the glass pillar above the lake and then dropping it down into the lake, so it rests on the lake-bed? edit: Do constructions allow this, or do they crumble into dust? Edit 2: v drat. I thought so. Nettle Soup fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 20:11
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Dropping constructed walls destroys them. Only natural walls survive being dropped
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Apr 23, 2024 20:12
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Clearly the most dwarven approach to this is to first, dig a second lake. After you have dug a second lake, pump the first lake into the second lake. Now that you have your drained pit, construct the staircase and the
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Apr 23, 2024 20:13
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I think you could get rid of the lake-bed with upward ramps, then replace it with lever-linked hatches, but it would be a pain and at that point you're probably draining the lake anyway. The wash when that first dwarf breaks through to the bottom of the lake would be quite something. That's a lotta water pressure.
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Apr 23, 2024 20:21
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okay, so here is my idea: - Cast an obsidian pillar to serve as your cofferdam. Leave one space of void between it and your glass tower to make collapsing it easier, and make sure this inner void extends 1-2 z-levels below the lakebed. - Underneath the lakebed, dig out a void of the exact same size and shape as your cofferdam, for it to fall into. - Floor over the bottom-most ring of the cofferdam void with one lever-linked floor hatch and the rest of it lever-linked grates. This will give inrushing water a place to go that won't immediately wash your miners away. - Channel out the bottom floor of the cofferdam from the inside. That should cause the entire obsidian pillar to collapse when you order the lever pulled, and give the mining team a chance to evacuate to safety before drowning (since the inrushing water is flowing down through the grates into the lower void). It might be difficult to actually pull off, though - you'd need to channel out the entire bottom floor of the cofferdam as close to simultaneously as possible, which would require a lot of miners and some precise timing.
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Apr 23, 2024 21:04
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Mister Bates posted:This is similar to the problem in earlier versions with outpost liaisons, merchants, and other visitors occasionally instantly dropping dead the moment they arrived at the fortress - people could get their necks severed in worldgen, but there was nothing explicitly saying you needed a neck to live, and worldgen did not take into account the fact that severing the neck would also sever the head, so people would just keep on living like that for decades, until the moment they arrived in your fort, at which point their heads would fall off 
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Apr 23, 2024 21:08
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The safest option would be to probably drain, build, and refill the lake. It would probably be faster to just embark somewhere that you fill with an artificial lake after construction though. Saves you a whole step
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Apr 23, 2024 21:21
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The problem with draining is it spills off the edge of the embark (it's just slightly too big for a max size embark to include the entirety of it). I could dam it then drain it but the dam will remain and it's aesthetically pleasing for it to look pristine, imoMister Bates posted:okay, so here is my idea: I'm not sure I understand this one. The issue with collapsing the wall, ultimately, is that you need to channel out the lakebed tiles on the outside of the obsidian, because they support it.
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Apr 23, 2024 21:24
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You build the dam, them you channel out the top of the dam one by one, which doesn't lose you any dwarves, and the water'll spill over the top then to hide your sins (and make a lovely waterfall!) But yeah, there'd still be a big wall there under the surface. New version just came out btw.
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Apr 23, 2024 21:29
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cheetah7071 posted:The problem with draining is it spills off the edge of the embark (it's just slightly too big for a max size embark to include the entirety of it). I could dam it then drain it but the dam will remain and it's aesthetically pleasing for it to look pristine, imo Can't you still channel from diagonally underneath using a drawbridge? Like the old magma pipe tap trick, but just repeated for every tile around your coffer drat.
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Apr 23, 2024 22:22
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Pharnakes posted:Can't you still channel from diagonally underneath using a drawbridge? Like the old magma pipe tap trick, but just repeated for every tile around your coffer drat. I'm not familiar with this trick! Can you explain it?
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Apr 23, 2024 22:33
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cheetah7071 posted:The problem with draining is it spills off the edge of the embark (it's just slightly too big for a max size embark to include the entirety of it). I could dam it then drain it but the dam will remain and it's aesthetically pleasing for it to look pristine, imo they only support it if it is there, if you channel out the entire bottom layer of obsidian than the remainder is just floating and should collapse. Let me MSpaint a little diagram real quick.  This works because you can channel unmined wall tiles, it doesn't have to be floor, which means you can dig out everything below the very bottom wall of the cofferdam, then channel the bottom wall away, leaving a tile of completely empty space In short, you channel out the bottom level of the obsidian pillar, the level which would be supported by the lakebed, after already digging out the levels beneath it, leaving nothing. Now, the problem is that, of course, the instant you do this all of the lake immediately rushes in through the first hole, but that's what the floor grates are for - the water falls into the void instead of immediately drowning your miners, which should buy you enough time to finish channeling and then hopefully for some of them to escape. If this is even possible it'd take some very precise timing and you'll probably still lose some miners anyway, but I see no reason why it wouldn't technically be possible Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 22:42
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cheetah7071 posted:I'm not familiar with this trick! Can you explain it? https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Magma Exploit from below is what I was thinking of, although now that I think about it more it might not work for removing the floor on the lake, I don't know.
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Apr 23, 2024 22:46
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Mister Bates posted:they only support it if it is there, if you channel out the entire bottom layer of obsidian than the remainder is just floating and should collapse. oh yeah that makes sense. Seems quite risky, probably the kind of job you don't put a legendary miner on lol. I missed that you were suggesting I dig out the bottom layer of the dam itself. It does have the unfortunately side effect of flooding the floors that the stairs lead to, making it annoying to actually build anything there. Pharnakes posted:https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Magma Ah, thanks. I think this might work, though it would collapse the wall one layer at a time rather than all at once, and would leave some bridges as un-removable scaffolding. But the footprint of the project is pretty small. Might be the best answer. e: so the idea, I think, would be to replace all the floor between the glass and obsidian with closed bridges. Then, below the bridges, build ramps. Then mark the bottom of the obsidian for mining; because of the exploit, the dwarves will be able to dig it out safely from the ramps. When the entire thing is dug out, it collapses by one floor. Repeat as many time as needed.
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Apr 23, 2024 22:56
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cheetah7071 posted:It does have the unfortunately side effect of flooding the floors that the stairs lead to, making it annoying to actually build anything there Only for a few seconds, before the pillar collapses, which should be a surmountable problem, especially if you use doors/hatches to keep the incoming water contained in specific places where it can be easily pumped out later. e: oh, another possibility, albeit a bit cheesy: you can use Adventure Mode to create a bunch of adventurers with mining skill from a species of amphibious animal people (axolotl men, alligator men, etc.) and retire them in the fort, then have them do the mining. Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 22:59
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Re-do the embark in a place where it freezes over in the winter and then dig out the ice and build it before it melts.
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Apr 24, 2024 05:48
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the embark location is one I'm extremely happy with, because I finally found an embark with a surface plant that makes a dye lol. My dwarves can finally be green instead of blue
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Apr 24, 2024 05:53
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Could you dig out a drain beneath the lake? Either through channeling a map edge wall or right through the caverns. Drain the lake, build what you want to build, trigger the floodgate to stop draining the water. And then just wait for rain or whatever to refill the lake.
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Apr 24, 2024 06:16
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I'm finally in-game and can just post the embark: it's more of an inland sea than a lake. I like this embark site because it's a joyous wilds which has several of the surface plants I've been wanting to farm available. Plus being on a river delta, complete with an island large enough for farming on, is just cool, imo.
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Apr 24, 2024 06:28
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I like the idea of a garbage chute that descends vertically all the way down to the magma layer. I dislike the idea of having a set of stairs or other method of ingress from the magma layer up into the fortress. So my solution has been to sacrifice a couple brave miners who begrudgingly channel downward until they realize they can't come back up, and then hopefully finish the downward dig before dying of thirst. the really good ones last long enough to smooth out a few floors of cave walls near the bottom layer before they channel through the final floor and drop into fiery oblivion. The end result is like a laundry chute, but for garbage, and magma creatures don't seem to be able to climb up it, nor do dwarves get curious about sets of stairs and locked doors that may lead down to the magma pits. It's fiddly and hard to make work and I wish I could lower a rope or something to get the miners back up, but I haven't come up with a better solution yet.
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Apr 24, 2024 06:39
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palindrome posted:I like the idea of a garbage chute that descends vertically all the way down to the magma layer. I dislike the idea of having a set of stairs or other method of ingress from the magma layer up into the fortress. Couldn't you just block off the stairs with constructed floors/walls when you're done with them, sealing them permanently?
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Apr 24, 2024 07:00
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I just have local incinerators on various main areas. Pits with one cartload of magma in them
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Apr 24, 2024 07:13
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I dig out an isolated minecart track that gets loaded with designated trash and then automatically rides down and dumps its contents into a lava pit
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Apr 24, 2024 07:29
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I don't really have a crystal clear understanding of how the A* pathing is implemented, but I feel like any solution where dwarves can get down there and check things out is suboptimal. Blocking off the stairs is a good idea, and I haven't tired bringing the magma to the pits via cartload. Minecart to lava is also interesting. Is loading garbage onto a minecart more onerous than chucking it down a designated garbage zone? Without researching I'd have to say no, they are both equal. Aesthetically I'd have more fun dropping cat poop down a 200m hole into magma (with a tiny 'sploosh' sound) but a minecart that submerges trash in lava is also quite good
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Apr 24, 2024 09:08
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I do like the idea of a minecart that drives through lava like one of those radiation tunnels.
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Apr 24, 2024 09:10
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Decided to look at the roadmap but it hasn't been updated since 2020 https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html They're focusing on adventure mode right now but I hope they get the time to flesh out the scholar systems soon. The fine control of migrants in the roadmap is something I'd very much like so I can opt out of random waves of migrants and control my population more easily.
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Apr 24, 2024 09:23
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Obviously the solution to preventing (ground-based) enemies from invading your fort through minecart tunnels is to make your minecarts do sick jumps across chasms as part of the route.
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Apr 24, 2024 09:24
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Using carts for anything other than quantum stockpiles has always resulted in minecart injuries for me. Dwarves love getting into mine tracks
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Apr 24, 2024 10:45
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That's true, but I'm trying the thought experiment of, "what if there is no path in the first place" for enemies or wayward dwarves to attempt. impossible pathing may be the best, and least computationally expensive defense
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Apr 24, 2024 10:45
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Dwarves. Dwarves find a way.
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Apr 24, 2024 11:23
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With the release of the Steam Adventure Mode beta, I’m surprised there haven’t been more adventure mode stories written up lately. I mean, personally I’m waiting for the full release next month to try it out, but I want stories dammit! <  >E: Mister Bates posted:This is similar to the problem in earlier versions with outpost liaisons, merchants, and other visitors occasionally instantly dropping dead the moment they arrived at the fortress - people could get their necks severed in worldgen, but there was nothing explicitly saying you needed a neck to live, and worldgen did not take into account the fact that severing the neck would also sever the head, so people would just keep on living like that for decades, until the moment they arrived in your fort, at which point their heads would fall off This'll do, though. 
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Apr 24, 2024 12:35
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Mister Bates posted:e: oh, another possibility, albeit a bit cheesy: you can use Adventure Mode to create a bunch of adventurers with mining skill from a species of amphibious animal people (axolotl men, alligator men, etc.) and retire them in the fort, then have them do the mining. Wait, does this actually work? Because if yes, it opens up a whole new level of bullshit that's possible and I'm here for it.
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Apr 24, 2024 13:44
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I mean, as far as I can see, Adventure mode hasnt fundementally changed as much as Fortress mode has. It'll be the same stories, the same FUN that you had as when it was in text mode, except now you get icons for it. The best part was always imagining the full scene though. And sometimes working up the energy to draw a full scene.  Good times.
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Apr 24, 2024 14:01
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I am trying to do a minecart system in my current fort and haven't had any issues or injuries so far, but it's still very early in implementation. I excavated a completely separate tunnel system for the tracks which is only connected to the rest of the fort at stations, and is designated a low traffic area, which together should mostly keep dwarves out unless they need to be in there. What I don't have is power implemented yet, so the minecarts need to be manually pulled around the system, so dwarves do need to be in there to move the carts around, but the network is also still at pretty low utilization right now so it's never been a problem yet. The only thing I'm using it for right now is food hauling. I have a bunch of underground farms in the caverns, the fisheries are near the front gate, the farmers' guild, farming workshops, and kitchens are all built up near the top of the mountain, and the great hall and tavern are pretty far underground. To save on both hauling time for my farmers/fishers and walking distance for diners and drinkers in the tavern, I have it set up like this: - A food stockpile in the caverns, set to only take cavern plants and load everything onto an adjacent minecart station. - Similar stockpiles at the surface farm and the fishery, set to only take products from those sources and load them for export. - All of those are then routed to the central raw food stockpile. - To cut down on clutter, a separate stockpile for processed food products like sugar, syrup, and flour. - Cooked food and alcohol are routed to a pair of stockpiles right next to the kitchens and breweries, which are set to load into minecarts. - These minecarts then go to a stockpile directly above the tavern. - To cut down on walking even further, this big larder then outputs to two smaller stockpiles inside the tavern, to ensure that drinks and food are never more than a few steps away from diners. - The dwarves then mostly ignore this to walk up the stairs to the main larder above the tavern, drink alcohol directly from the barrel, and complain about it. It is an extremely simple setup, every single route goes solely from A to B and then back again, is always loaded in one direction and empty in the other, and always takes everything from whatever loading stockpile it is linked to. They're all currently on completely separate tracks so there's no possibility of carts from different routes jamming each other up, and each route is two parallel tracks with a loop at each end, routed such that all carts on any given track are always moving in one direction, so it could theoretically handle high throughput without traffic ever becoming an issue. Not particularly impressive, but it works, and it's the first time I have ever seriously messed with minecarts so it's been a handy learning experience. Eventually I want to expand this to other things - I want to have carts to collect the cave spider silk cloth from the looms in the caverns and the leather from the tanneries in the farming workshops and bring them down to the craftsdwarves' guild, a cart stop near the surface where woodcutters can drop off logs that then send them down to the carpenters, stops on every floor where stone and ore can be dropped off and then periodically hauled down to the masons and the forges. The more stuff I add, though, the more complicated the network will get, the more problems I'll have to troubleshoot, and the more power will be needed if and when I decide to try automating it. It's also just not really necessary - I have over 200 dwarves, so hauling inefficiency doesn't actually matter much, there's always plenty of idle cheesemakers and fish dissectors who can drag stuff around. The increased efficiency it's brought to my farming operations has been neat, but it's just neat, it's not really that beneficial in the grand scheme of things.
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Apr 24, 2024 16:47
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cheetah7071 posted:I'm finally in-game and can just post the embark: You can still drain it even though it comes in from the edge using the same mechanics you would use to a dam a river. https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Water#Getting_rid_of_unwanted_water You will need to make a massive exit flow slightly bigger than the connecting water edge tiles that you can toggle on and off. EDIT: Hahaha or you can do this bullshit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yopUbi2iVM Salynne fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 17:20
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I've never had minecart problems in my forts, but I usually connect everything with 3-width tunnels with the minecart going down the center. Tracks get automarked as low traffic areas (maybe by dfhack idk) and the two paths to the side are therefore always a better calculation for pretty much anywhere a person would want to walk
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Apr 24, 2024 18:42
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Spanish Matlock posted:I've never had minecart problems in my forts, but I usually connect everything with 3-width tunnels with the minecart going down the center. Tracks get automarked as low traffic areas (maybe by dfhack idk) and the two paths to the side are therefore always a better calculation for pretty much anywhere a person would want to walk I usually want to isolate the carts, not have dwarves moving near them. I usually use burrows heavily to restrict dwarves from going where I don't want them, and minecart tracks count. Having it both excluded from the relevant burrow, and set to low traffic, usually keeps the tracks roadkill free. Not that I have done serious minecart systems in a while, I don't think they are really worth it.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:19
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Is there an up to date guide on worldgen? I created a new world that I think simulated for 100 years so I could play adventure mode but just about every hillock is abandoned. I didn't mess with any of the default settings except maybe mineral availability I turned down slightly.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:25
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| # ? May 3, 2024 19:12 |
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cheetah7071 posted:oh yeah that makes sense. Seems quite risky, probably the kind of job you don't put a legendary miner on lol. I missed that you were suggesting I dig out the bottom layer of the dam itself. It does have the unfortunately side effect of flooding the floors that the stairs lead to, making it annoying to actually build anything there. I was thinking abut this all day, I think I've got a better sugestion actually. First dig out the appropriate amount of floors under the coffer dam, then, around the outside of the cofferdam, dig 2 tunnels, one under the other, leaving just the lake floor to support the coffer dam. Then you need to cast a single level high ring of obsidian above this, so one block larger than the dam, and above it so it isn't supported by the dam. Colapse the outer ring and it will smash down and take out both floors, leaving a single Z level trench on the outside of the coffer dam. If you've already removed the supports from the inside then the dam will collapse into the space you made for it also. If you really care you could then repeat the single level ring to fill the trench back in.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:39
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