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So, weird AC issue I've been having. On my 98 Jetta TDI, had the fill fittings replaced due to bad valves, and then had the system vacuumed and filled, but they said the high side wouldn't go very high, and sure enough ac only got mildly cold. Diagnosed as worn compressor. A few days later, and after running the AC on and off out of curiosity, the AC suddenly goes ice cold....and holds. No replaced compressor, no more filled, nothing. It just went from tepid to frigid suddenly, and is now consistently cold.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:28
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Perhaps a blockage? Anyone have any experience with custom made ac parts? I need a few lines made, they're going to be in a hot place so I think solid would be best. Any places you recommend to buy universal parallel flow condensers? What about replumbing a dual evap core system with two expansion valves? Can I get a "universal" drier? Any recommendation on a compressor model for a retrofit? It needs to be vbelt driven. For a custom ac setup like this, how do you decide how much to oil to use? I take it you charge it based on running pressures? Do you add refrigerant until the high side stops rising or hits 200psi?
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Apr 29, 2014 07:50
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For some reason, the A/C worked perfectly this morning. I'll have to check it this afternoon when the car's been sitting in the sun all day. I don't expect ice cold air the second I start the car, I usually drive the first kilometer or so with all the windows down to get the hot still air out of the cabin. After that I expect some cooling from the A/C. Motronic posted:Sounds like a compound problem. It's a 2000 Peugeot 406, should have probably mentioned that earlier. I assume there's nothing weird about the A/C setup, since it's one of the least weird French cars. quote:Then check that the condenser fan is turning on when the AC is switched on. This could explain the poor performance when you're going slowly. The fan definitely turns on when the A/C is on. Fan was off when I cold started the car, but turned on when I switched the A/C on. quote:Then check that the compressor clutch is engaging. That could explain all of it. Lack of engagement could be wiring, control modules, low pressure switch, etc......things that could change their behavior when the are marginal based on how hot they are. The clutch seems to be engaging. It clicks on and the revs fluctuate a bit as the ECU compensates. quote:Running pressures would be useful to know. Not working at low speeds could be RPM related if the compressor is spanked. Absolutely no idea about the pressures, but the issue doesn't seem to be RPM related. It cools equally well (or equally bad), even if I rev it in neutral. quote:Also, was anything repaired when this was recharged? Unless it's just been left to drain over 10-15 years and this is it's first recharge it sounds like you have a leak to address. No, it was just an ordinary check and recharge. I don't have any service records from before I bought the car in 2012, but I found a label in the engine compartment which says the last recharge was in 2002. So if this really is the first recharge in 12 years, that's a pretty normal rate of refrigerant loss?
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Apr 29, 2014 08:02
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mafoose posted:Perhaps a blockage? The rubber style hoses will be fine, and if you have a hose that has the ends you need, you can usually find a local hydraulic shop that will fit the ends and make you a AC rated hose for around $85 or so. I had to have a custom hose made for my Jetta when I put the new motor in because it moved the AC compressor lower into the engine bay.
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Apr 29, 2014 15:04
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Well, now I'm pretty certain the A/C issue with my car is temperature-related. Yesterday it didn't work when I was driving home from work, but it worked fine later that evening on a cold start. This morning on a cold start, I tried setting the temperature to the minimum before starting the car, and I got cold air within seconds of the compressor kicking on. But when I pulled into work and tried the lowest temperature setting again, it did nothing except blow more air. I'm 100% certain it won't work when I go to drive home today, when the car's been sitting in the sun all day. Ninja edit: I found a charge chart for Peugeots. It says that 406s with the XU/ES engines need 775±25 grams of refrigerant, but 406s with the EW/DW engines only need 625±25 grams of refrigerant. Considering they said mine had 150 grams in it, and that they added 600 grams, I think they may have overcharged the system.
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Apr 30, 2014 08:22
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If thats the case you need to have the system totally evacuated and start from scratch. Oh and don't run the ac. 
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Apr 30, 2014 13:05
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I figured as much. It actually rattled a bit for a second when I tried switching the A/C on with the hood open to listen for any weird noises. I figure it's right on the edge between "a bit too much" and "way too much", since it works fine when cold. When I called and asked the mechanic, he said "we go by the settings on our Waeco machines", but I bet they just punched in "Peugeot 406" without checking which generation and engine type it was. I have it booked in for Monday for a check to see if they overcharged it, with a very specific note about checked the engine type and charge amount. If it turns out they overfilled it, I sure as poo poo ain't gonna pay for the evacuation and recharge. And I should probably demand a refund for the ~150 grams of refrigerant they overcharged it with.
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Apr 30, 2014 13:21
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I'd worry more about the fact that the rattle might have been refrigerant slugging the compressor than the cost of 150 grams of refrigerant.
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May 2, 2014 20:00
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If that's the case, they're paying for a new compressor.
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May 2, 2014 20:23
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Well the wagon has ac again, I even left the gage set on overnight and saw no drop in vacuum after I had initially vacuumed it out. Couldn't find a nice oil syringe like what you use so I had to crack the system open and add oil via an opened port. Revac'd and charged it this morning. I'm going to do a write up in my thread this weekend about how I almost lit the car on fire when I went to recharge it. EDIT: I forgot to add that Sam's club has cheap r134a. 12-12oz cans for $50, or if you're feeling up to it, 30lbs of refrigerant for $86. Supposedly made AND packaged in the USA. mafoose fucked around with this message at 03:49 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 02:54
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I finally got around to fixing the leak (Spencer's gifts blacklight bulb worked great, along with the dye), replacing the receiver-dryer again, and charging up my Passat. COLD COLD COLD YES YES YES SO AWESOME! Thank you Motronic!
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May 3, 2014 05:35
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CountOfNowhere posted:Thank you Motronic! I've never seen these words together before.
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May 3, 2014 08:44
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West SAAB Story posted:I've never seen these words together before. Its a first (and probably the last)
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May 3, 2014 13:32
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mafoose posted:Perhaps a blockage? I have no idea about any of this stuff, but I'd like to hear more about this project!
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May 3, 2014 14:43
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So according to the mechanic, my A/C is completely OK. The charge amount is spot-on, the pressures are fine, they hooked it up to their fancy Waeco machine and re-ran everything, and it came with a clean bill of health. The drat thing cools perfectly despite being left in the sun all day, and it still cools great after fully warming up the car with a semi-long drive  I guess there's not much else to do other than to wait for warmer weather and see if it happens again.
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May 5, 2014 16:16
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Can I ask about house AC? My house unit is freezing up and I'm pretty sure it's just a little low. I have no record of it being topped off within the last decade. What all do I need to top this off? I assume refrigerant and an adapter for my gauge set? What pressures do I need to aim for? Where do I get refrigerant? How do I determine what refrigerant and connector types my house has? Or are they pretty much universal? I can use my buddy's account at the local AC contractor supply but I need to know what to ask for first so I don't walk in there and sound like an idiot. E: This seems like a pretty solid guide: http://www.wikihow.com/Charge-a-Home-Air-Conditioner Can you buy small cans? revmoo fucked around with this message at 20:12 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 20:06
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I have similar questions, our system leaks enough to require a top up every year or two. This usually costs $250-300, the service guy last time mentioned the refrigerant it takes is getting more and more expensive (R22?) It'd be nice if I could handle it myself somehow. The unit is from the mid/late 90's.
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May 9, 2014 20:22
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Answering my own questions, you can buy small cans. Also I checked and the unit is R22. That's the same connector as R12, right? Where can I find a R12 fitting for R134 gauges?
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May 9, 2014 20:32
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revmoo posted:Can I ask about house AC? My house unit is freezing up and I'm pretty sure it's just a little low. I have no record of it being topped off within the last decade. It's not automotive A/C: it has no barrier hoses so there is ZERO reason to ever need to get it topped off unless you have a legitimate leak. Also, it is just as likely that it's freezing from low refrigerant charge as it is due to low air volume. This can be as simple as a clogged filter or a filthy evaporator. Replace your filter, open that poo poo up inside and take the shop vac to it. If the stuff is really stuck on there you can nuke it with some evap foam until it's clean. revmoo posted:What all do I need to top this off? I assume refrigerant and an adapter for my gauge set? What pressures do I need to aim for? Where do I get refrigerant? How do I determine what refrigerant and connector types my house has? Or are they pretty much universal? Not at all universal - you'll need to look at the condenser outside. It should all be labeled, and what's in it will have everything to do with what kind of fittings you'll find. What pressures you are shooting for will be entirely based on the refrigerant in the system and what type of system is it. You'll be able to find a chart. And no, you won't find typically small cans unless you think 30 lbs is small. They are available, but I've rarely seen them. sanchez posted:I have similar questions, our system leaks enough to require a top up every year or two. This usually costs $250-300, the service guy last time mentioned the refrigerant it takes is getting more and more expensive (R22?) It'd be nice if I could handle it myself somehow. The unit is from the mid/late 90's. Yes, you can handle periodic recharging by yourself but you're better off finding the leak and repairing it properly. If you just want to take a chance at being able to limp it along for a few more years before replacement I'd suggest getting your hands on some R-22 now, as it's just increasing in price. A 30 lb can is about $200-250 these days. It was $150 a couple years ago. Expect it to be $300+ in a couple more years. Edit: revmoo posted:Answering my own questions, you can buy small cans. Also I checked and the unit is R22. That's the same connector as R12, right? Yes, it's the same as R-12. If it's from an R-134a set, that's gonna be a lot less likely to find at an AC supply house than something like 410 to 22. I'm sure Amazon has something. Motronic fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 20:37
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I want to use my R134 gauge set, so I need an adapter to go from the quick-release connectors to the schrader valve. This is an impossible part to google for because everybody is going the other direction (converting old gauges to new connectors) and I want to convert newer gauges to older connectors. That's interesting that you're saying house ac doesn't lose pressure over time (even 10-20 years?). I think I still want to go ahead and top it off to get me through at least the summer. I'll add dye while I'm at it to aid in finding leaks. I'll check my evaporator out before making any orders. Thanks for the advice.
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May 9, 2014 20:45
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revmoo posted:That's interesting that you're saying house ac doesn't lose pressure over time (even 10-20 years?). It shouldn't. It's all copper and aluminum. Vehicles lose refrigerant through the rubber barrier hoses. You don't have any of those in fixed AC system.
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May 9, 2014 20:47
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Adding to that, you can sort of picture the lines in a fixed refrigeration system (like your home a/c) as a very high pressure version of copper water lines. Everything is soldered together; you're most likely to find leaks at junctions between lines and other components (such as your coils, or the outside unit). The lines themselves pretty much never fail unless you, say, run up into your attic (assuming an attic mounted air handler, or lines running through the attic) and step on them or drop something heavy on them. They're generally copper, they deform very easily. Personally, I've only had home a/c freeze up when it was really low on refrigerant; most air handlers push plenty of air. But I've generally lived in houses/apartments where people actually replace the air filters somewhat regularly. I'm going to laugh my rear end off so hard when our HVAC at work finishes crapping out; they've never had an air filter in any of them since the place opened (7 years ago)...
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May 10, 2014 09:32
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Posted in the stupid questions thread: A/C chat: losts of airflow, no cold. 2003 Toyota Echo. Might it need a recharge? Anything I can do to test to get a better fix on what it might be? E: and it's randomly back. So we get cold air but sometimes not. I don't think that is a coolant thing, would it be? Might it be electrical since it is now blowing cold as a witches tit?
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May 11, 2014 21:12
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KKKLIP ART posted:Posted in the stupid questions thread: It's refrigerant, not coolant. And whatever is happening in most definitely not "random." Read the original posts of this thread. It could be low refrigerant charge, it could be electrical, it could be mechanical. You'll have to narrow that down a bit for anyone who can't be in front of your car to help. If you understand the basics of how AC works you'll have a better chance of spotting relevant symptoms that we can help you use to diagnose it.
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May 11, 2014 21:31
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So I went to Autozone to use their loan-a-tool program for their a/c set. $120 deposit.  Obviously I get that back at the end, but to be honest, I think I'd be better off just buying a set. How terrible are the Harbor Fright sets? Or hell, even the lower end AutoZone sets? They'd probably get used a half dozen times a year (between family + friends cars). I do plan to eventually get certified for R134a motor vehicle, just to stay legal.
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May 12, 2014 11:27
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You have to be certified for r134 in Texas? Also I have another question--what is the noise that some A/C units make that sounds like cshhweehhwshshhhhhh--kind of a swishy noise from inside (not the compressor)? Is that a sign of a clogged capillary/TXV?
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May 12, 2014 12:43
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revmoo posted:You have to be certified for r134 in Texas? Min did that when it was low, after getting it recharged it no longer does it. So I'd say it's the refrigerant gurgling in the pipes because it's too low.
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May 12, 2014 13:56
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some texas redneck posted:So I went to Autozone to use their loan-a-tool program for their a/c set. Are you talking about manifold gauges? The HF ones are just fine.
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May 12, 2014 15:43
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I just grabbed a compressor from the junkyard to throw in, I was thinking about just installing it without hooking up the system so I can get my core back, but even if I don't do that I have the same question. How do I unhook it from the system? You mention the pressure, but not how to relieve it.
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May 12, 2014 18:04
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StormDrain posted:I just grabbed a compressor from the junkyard to throw in, I was thinking about just installing it without hooking up the system so I can get my core back, but even if I don't do that I have the same question. With a recovery machine. It's illegal to vent refrigerant to the atmosphere. Recovery machines are all stupid expensive. Call around and see if you can find a shop that will do it for cheap.
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May 12, 2014 18:08
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So a week or two ago. my wife was driving along and the AC compressor on her 2008 Kia Spectra5 (which is even a BLUE car!) locked up, accompanied by a loud hissing. This was, of course, hell on the belt, which fortunately only runs the AC, but she was close enough to home to keep going (she didn't know what had actually happened until my later diagnosis.) Funny thing is that it was the freewheel portion of the clutch that seized (which meant turning off the AC didn't help), but it appears to have lunched the front seal on the compressor at the same time, which would have been the hissing. The center hub connected to the compressor shaft turns freely. Too freely, in fact, and can be wobbled a bit. I'm hoping and praying that's actually what happened, because I am not thrilled about the prospect of flushing black death out of the system. It worked very well right up to the destruction. It blew quite cold. A new compressor is $300-$400. Is there any way to determine myself if the compressor can be rebuilt, and more to the point, is it worth the effort? I'm more comfortable going with a new compressor, but I thought I would ask. I'll have a better idea of the task ahead when I have time to get the compressor off, which needs to be soon. I'm in Texas, and Spring/Summer finally decided to show up. I assume that a new compressor will have oil in it? Is that labelled or marked anywhere? I've never bought a new one. I'll be Googling for the amount of refrigerant, oil, and oil type, but does anyone know of a good resource for that info offhand? Gotta get this done - gotta keep the wife cool, you know. My Cherokee's AC, on the other hand, seems to be working fine so far, though it does seem to short-cycle a bit when I have it on Max AC with the fan on a lower setting for some reason. Edit: Oh FFS. Looks like you have to replace the drier, orifice tube, and expansion valve, and flush the system in order to validate any warranty on a new compressor. Edit2: bugger. Looks like there's a fancy application-specific not-an-O O-ring somewhere in the system, too. Of course it'll be on the compressor. Any bets? Any better place to buy from besides Rock Auto? Edit3: Desiccant bag? WTF? I've never seen a system that you can replace just the desiccant rather than the whole receiver/drier. I definitely need to take a look at the FSM. Darchangel fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 20:43
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Uhhhh.....OK. You seem to be figuring this out as you go along. But yes, a compressor can be rebuilt. No you won't be able to get the parts to do this on your own without a serious amount of work. Just get a reman or a new compressor. Yes, new compressors have oil in them. It may or may not be enough to replace what you need after a rapid decompression like that. While the amount may be labeled, I always just pour it out into a measuring cup to know for sure. Just replacing a compressor is a bad idea, because the orifice tube is cheap and you've already done the hard part of opening the system. And any time you open the system you need a new receiver/dryer or accumulator, whichever is appropriate. I don't know anything about replaceable desiccant bags. I've never heard of that.
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May 12, 2014 21:34
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Motronic posted:With a recovery machine. It's illegal to vent refrigerant to the atmosphere. Thanks! I was hoping it was some manipulation of the manifold and some sort of deposit can. What had happened was the clutch seized up on this somehow, there are three bolts on it that are damaged from the incident. It didn't work for a while and I was hot so I had it on of course and hoping it would work and it suddenly squealed and took a ton of power from my car as it seized. I'm thinking it's more than just the clutch though, so it's not worth trying to fully cheap out on it. I want a different car but I'm ultimately too cheap, so I'm gearing up to take care of this sometime soon. Plus who would want to buy a lovely Saturn without AC? Nobody is that desperate.
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May 12, 2014 23:19
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Yeah, clutches don't really seize at all, they either short and stay on all the time or wear out and don't engage. If it put a major drag on your engine, it's the whole compressor locking up. Do get a new orifice tube at the very least, but consider that if the compressor seized up it may have sent debris through the lines on the way out, in which case I'd recommend flushing the lines. And get a new receiver/drier or accumulator no matter what if you plan on getting it running.
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May 12, 2014 23:30
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Fucknag posted:Yeah, clutches don't really seize at all, they either short and stay on all the time or wear out and don't engage. It's not so much the clutch seizing as it is the bearings that let the pulley freewheel. When those seize up (especially when you've got a locked compressor) the whole thing is going to act like the clutch is seized, whether or not it actually is. True story, the load of a locked up A/C compressor is enough to make a '95 Saturn SL1 not start.
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May 12, 2014 23:56
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Motronic posted:Uhhhh.....OK. You seem to be figuring this out as you go along. Uh, yeah, sorry - sort of a stream of consciousness. I know a fair amount about AC, but haven't had to do this particular job. Yeah, Rock Auto only list "AC Receiver Drier Desiccant Element" and the pics look like a sewn-shut tube sock. I dunno. O'Reilly's lists similarly. I'll have to check the car and the manual. Of course, Rock Auto doesn't list an orifice tube, but does list and expansion valve, which looks like it attaches directly to the evaporator. I seem to recall that expansion valve and orifice tube are mutually exclusive. Guess I'll have to go look up what type of system this thing uses to see if it even HAS an orifice tube... Fake edit: looked at the first post and they are indeed one or the other, so expansion valve it is. That's inside the dash on this thing, dammit. Whole damned blower and evaporator assembly has to come out. IOwnCalculus posted:It's not so much the clutch seizing as it is the bearings that let the pulley freewheel. When those seize up (especially when you've got a locked compressor) the whole thing is going to act like the clutch is seized, whether or not it actually is. The Kia wouldn't either, after she turned it off. She basically slipped the belt the last 1/2 mile or so to home, then it stuck to the pulley good. And yeah, it's the bearings in the pulley that I think bit it. I can only guess that the heat destroyed the shaft seal. I've got no other theory yet. Thinking about going with a used, warrantied compressor from eBay, since they're under a $100. I'd definitely need to measure the oil then.
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May 13, 2014 01:06
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IOwnCalculus posted:It's not so much the clutch seizing as it is the bearings that let the pulley freewheel. When those seize up (especially when you've got a locked compressor) the whole thing is going to act like the clutch is seized, whether or not it actually is. That does not surprise me, having been at the helm of an SL2. It was like someone pushed the brakes for me on the freeway, and it smelled like rubber for a few minutes thereafter. For about a year it would squeak away after it shut off and slow down, which I now attribute to dry or worn bearings as it slowed down. Of course it wasn't working for a few months before so who knows what happened.
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May 13, 2014 03:27
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I forgot that bearings exist. 
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May 13, 2014 04:52
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On my 1978 Subaru, I have a dealer installed A/C system. It is a TXV based setup, and looks to be complete. I have a new receiver/dryer and had a few questions. I'm definitely wanting to do a R152 conversion, the original was R12 and the system has been open/disassembled for a decade or more. What sort of oil would I use? I don't have a refrigerant quantity spec, should I go off of pressures? The original compressor is a Sanden, and both it and its clutch are good. Should I replace it anyway? The hoses are Goodyear or something with 90 deg -8 and -10 AN with barb fittings and worm drive hose clamps, and the hose it bad. Should I put them together and find an A/C or hydraulic shop to make modern crimped hoses, or just get fittings/hose from Jegs/Summit/Earl's and do it myself?
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May 13, 2014 21:19
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DJ Commie posted:On my 1978 Subaru, I have a dealer installed A/C system. It is a TXV based setup, and looks to be complete. I have a new receiver/dryer and had a few questions. Yeah, you'll have to go off pressures for this one. Most likely the oil to use is going to be PAG46, but see if you can find a specific model on the compressor and look up what they recommend for weight. I'm not so sure on custom hoses......my gut says get crimped ones, but I'm sure doing your own fittings with high quality stuff should work out. As far as replacing the compressor......if it works who cars? And the "refrigerant" is cheap enough for you to give it a try and see how it goes.
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May 13, 2014 21:28
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