|
Just FYI, the first two video links have good timestamps, but the next four just link to the start. Glad to see this thread back! The compressor on the Protege apparently shifted and kinked one of the hoses while I had the engine out this last time, so I may have to do some service on that once I get it back on the road.
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2014 23:44
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
Oh no, a highly pressurized, flammable liquid? In the engine compartment, near hot metal? Say it ain't so!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
Galler posted:Yeah, when I PMed the old posts it URL ellipsed the text of the links but kept the destination correct so I didn't notice it and then when he copied and pasted it the forums tried to make the text into the link. Thanks, both to you and our lord of frost Motronic! Just ordered an A/C service fun pak, got a pump, R-134a tap, syringe, o-rings and disconnect tool coming from Amazon (I can get manifold gauges locally). Gonna see where all my refrigerant leaked out over the last year on the Mazda. It's an expansion valve system so it's possible it was borderline already, but the gauge on the little Arctic Freeze recharge thing I have (someone else bought it, shut up) is reading 0 psi on the low side and the compressor doesn't engage, so something was lost. Is it legal to do A/C work for money with tools like these, or is it a buddys-only type deal since the refrigerant isn't recovered?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Doing work means you need your EPA 609 cert (see the OP - it's cheap and an online test). Regardless of certs or work for yourself/others you are required to recover refrigerant. I do in fact have my 609, so I'm at least 50% legal. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2014 22:34
|
|
|
Welp, found a huge-rear end leak on the compressor outlet line! Got a new line & receiver/drier coming from amazon ($65 shipped, :tenbux: cheaper than RockAuto for the same vendors); everything should be here by next Wednesday, so I should have A/C again by the end of the week.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2014 01:40
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:Gasoline tends to be under a decent amount of pressure too. This guy gets it. Anyway, I've got my new drier and most of the tools. The tracking info on the new hose and oil syringe shows they're both in Orlando at least, so I figure either tomorrow or Monday. Speaking of, about how much oil should I expect to add for this job? I'm replacing both the line and the accumulator. The initial leak wasn't rapid decompression that I'm aware of, but when I did the leak check last week there was a green puddle on the undertray about the size of a quarter, plus a good amount clinging to the hose itself; though I can't be sure how much of that was PAG and how much was the dye I added. Also, what sort of oil should I use? PAG obviously, but the manual specifies ATMOS GU10; Googling that gives me some people saying it's equivalent to PAG46, others PAG100.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2014 08:07
|
|
|
HAHAHA I must have offended a gypsy in a past life or something. Guess who sheared off the bolt for the outlet line in the condenser?  I've managed to break an ex-out of in one side, and the drill bit snapped in the bolt when I tried going from the other side. I'm basically hosed. E: How dumb would it be to drill through the aluminum just around the bolt shaft? The flange is aligned by the fitting itself and a little peg above the bolt hole, the bolt just holds everything together; would using a tiny through bolt setup work, you think? Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 5, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2014 21:04
|
|
|
SO ANYWAY (now that it's taken me 8 hours to change a single goddamn line) Finally got the system put back together, started the vacuum about 10 minutes ago. It's bobbling between 29-30 inches of vacuum, so I'm taking that as a good sign. Once it's got a verified seal, I still gotta change out the drier, which is right by the rad and freely accessible, so stay tuned to see how I gently caress that up! After that, I've got 2 cans of 134a (empty fill spec is 21oz) ready to go in. Man I did not wanna drop $100 to replace an otherwise good condenser over a stupid stroke of bad luck like that, I'm glad it worked out.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2014 01:06
|
|
|
You've got bigger problems if that static reading is accurate (ie engine off for at least an hour or so). Your static pressures are uneven side to side (they should equalize with the compressor off), and the high side reading is borderline; if the engine bay was hot, that's aboout the static pressure for 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but if it was cold (equal to ambient temp) then there's contamination and the system will need to be vacuumed and probably flushed. I know it's leaking, but while the compressor was running, did the vent air get cold? Could you see condensation on the low pressure line/feel it getting cold? Usually unequal reading like that mean that you've got a blockage somewhere in the system, so you'll need to figure out where that is first. It's also possible your compressor is going bad; would it be possible to get a recording so we can hear what it's doing? If it won't turn on, locate the pressure switch and jump the pins, the compressor should turn on; don't run it like that for long though, with little/no refrigerant it may not be getting enough oil, which will burn it out.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2014 05:05
|
|
|
Motronic posted:It's probably leaking because it was clogged and over pressured on the output side of the compressor (exactly where your picture showed the dye). FWIW, rockauto lists an expansion valve for that car, and it's just a generic listing for accumulator/receiver/drier, but the picture looks pretty much identical to the drier I just put in my Protege. Hopefully the TXV isn't clogged, those seem to be a bit more of a pain to change out than capillary tubes most of the time. Speaking of, I did get my parts in. Had a bit of a detour when the bolt holding the compressor outlet line to the condenser sheared off in the condenser while I was removing it, turning a roughly 1-hour line swap into an all day thing, as I got to half-disassemble the front of the car to unhook the condenser outlet and have enough room to slide it out. After an EZ-out failed from both ends (the bolt threaded all the way through a block of aluminum, which the fitting was molded into), I got to spend about 4 hours carefully drilling around the bolt to remove it, then drilling it from 5mm internal thread to 8mm in order to use a through bolt and nut to clamp the whole deal back together. Had to go slow to prevent damaging the fins, as well as keeping a rag stuffed in the fitting to keep any metal shavings from falling in. I did finally get it all together, though, replacing every exposed o-ring as I went. Held vacuum for a solid 25 minutes after shutting the pump off. The receiver/drier itself was a cinch (literally, it's held in place by a 2-piece metal strap that tightens like a worm clamp), and all was perfect after. Injected about an ounce of dye, couldn't get any more because the drat syringe broke as I was filling it a second time.  After that I charged it, and it's true what you say in the video, expansion valve systems seem to take forever to charge; I was there for a good hour and a half with only 22oz capacity, and apparently that was too quick because the evaporator iced over at some point. I was flipping out feeling the low-pressure line get hot and watching low side pressure rise while the high did nothing, but then I realized what must have happened and turned it off.Started it back up an hour later; static pressures were perfect, and when the compressor kicked on the pressures shot to good running readings (albeit a bit low for both) and I was seeing 50 degrees from the vent in under a minute. Put the remainder in the next morning, and I'm seeing a rock steady 50/245 while running now, with 40 degrees once it's fully cooled off. tl;dr: my poo poo blows cold, and use penetrating oil, even in mild climates like mine; galvanic corrosion's a bitch.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Yeah, honestly that compressor sounds pretty well lunched. BTW, those numbers you gave should actually be PSI, only the red numbers on the low side gauge are in/Hg; that's a measurement of vacuum.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2014 03:53
|
|
|
Is it when the truck actually starts moving, or will it also do it if you rev the engine in park/neutral? If it's the latter, it could just be the low charge; too low to get effective cooling at idle, but with some revs the compressor is turning faster and building up more pressure, enough to get at least some cooling. Can't get a definitive answer until you get static and running pressures, though. Ambient temperature doesn't matter too much, most gauges will have usable temperature markings down to at least 50. Alternately, you can look up a chart that lists static pressure for any temperature (like this one) and see if pressures match up. Remember that if it's within a few hours of the truck being driven, the engine bay will be warmer than ambient, so if it's 65 out, maybe use 70-75 for your readings (or higher if it feels warmer; an air thermometer in the engine bay would be ideal.) Once it's running and the cooler air is actively being sucked over the condenser, use the outside air temp or a bit over, and use it and the running pressure chart in the OP to check what it should be. E: Also what he said about checking the fans.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
Typically they'll use nitrogen to detect that a leak exists, but there's no way of locating it since the atmosphere already has nitrogen; there are sniffers, though, that can detect refrigerant in the air, though I don't know if they're specific per refrigerant or if they can just detect any halocarbons. You are using a UV light to check for the dye, right? I'd check inside your airbox too, to the extent possible; it's possible the evaporator is leaking and needs to be replaced, but a leak there wouldn't show up in the engine bay, unless I'm dumb and RX-7s have the case in the engine bay like some trucks.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2014 08:07
|
|
|
Motronic posted:The other place I've found "leaks that I can't find with dye" are the drat valve cores of the service ports. Because you expect them to have dye on them already. Had that bite one of my coworkers in the rear end at Sears, we ate a complete vac+refill plus diagnosis and repair at an a/c specialist shop because he didn't check the service ports and declared the system ok. Did an R12 recharge today! Friend has an 87 Toyota Pickup, a/c has never blown cold, but the compressor engaged so we knew there was at least something in it. Hooked gauges up and static pressure was perfect, so we dumped 2 cans in and the a/c blows an excellent 45 degrees. However, at the end pressures looked a bit low, 15/150 (I was looking for 20/205), but like I said the air came out cold. Does that sound like it might still be slightly undercharged? Total system capacity is 28oz, I put in 2 12oz cans, but I don't know how much or how little was in beforehand.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 19, 2014 01:09
|
|
|
Motronic posted:It sounds a bit low, and also like the compressor has seen batter days (no surprise). Shoot for the appropriate low side pressures and just be happy with how much the compressor is able to make on the high side. Fair enough. I should note that at times it got up as high as 195 on the high side; it's possible the evaporator was partly freezing over during the charging process and making the readings wonky. That said, he texted me today and said his girlfriend was complaining and made him turn it off. I'm marking this one a success.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2014 02:26
|
|
|
So the relay secondary circuit (that sends power to the fans) is good; how's the primary circuit? Typically you'll have constant 12V to the socket, with the switch in the cabin grounding the other pin and completing the circuit. If a known good relay doesn't work that's where I'd start looking.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2014 06:35
|
|
|
Cooling fans sure, but A/C? I'd believe it too, but if so that's asinine.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2014 06:42
|
|
|
Yeah, clutches don't really seize at all, they either short and stay on all the time or wear out and don't engage. If it put a major drag on your engine, it's the whole compressor locking up. Do get a new orifice tube at the very least, but consider that if the compressor seized up it may have sent debris through the lines on the way out, in which case I'd recommend flushing the lines. And get a new receiver/drier or accumulator no matter what if you plan on getting it running.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2014 23:30
|
|
|
I forgot that bearings exist. 
|
|
#
¿
May 13, 2014 04:52
|
|
|
Sometimes systems with expansion valves (thermostatic, not a fixed orifice) can be a bastard to charge while running, but that shouldn't be an issue if you/the shop are using a recovery machine, which it sound like. Did you/they get running pressures to see if it was building pressure in the system? Can't really diagnose anything without those.
|
|
#
¿
May 31, 2014 01:32
|
|
|
Cross post from the chat thread, regarding household A/C:Fucknag posted:First really hot day of the year (got up to like 97 with 50% humidity) and now the loving house A/C is acting up. Compressor seems to be running, "Cool On" indicator on the thermostat lights up (but eventually starts flashing, which worries me) and the air handler gets cold, but the fan won't kick on, even when set to "on" instead of "auto". Could a clogged filter cause the evaporator to ice up on an otherwise good system? We've got the system shut off in the hopes that's all it is, to let it thaw, but I've got my doubts and I'd like some feedback.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2014 04:27
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:If the evaporator is good and iced up, you need to defrost it before the system will run properly, even after cleaning the filter. Set the system to off, fan to manual on, and go see a movie or something. Yeah, the fan won't kick on even with manual on. Although I don't know yet if it indicates an electrical issue, or if the control module just disabled the system because it detected icing (???) Like I set, we're letting it defrost, at least overnight, and we'll see where it goes from there. It's not completely blocked, it was kicking on sporadically with plenty of airflow that was at least cold, so it's not like there's a solid block of ice/snow blocking the evaporator vent.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
We were busy with poo poo today, gonna call and set up an appointment tomorrow. gently caress this 85 at night nonsense.some texas redneck posted:If the module is intelligent enough to detect icing (I really doubt it), it would shut off the compressor and run the fan. Yeah, this is about what I figured, its current behavior wouldn't make sense. Did this when i got home just now, turned off the system (and unplugged the thermostat from the wall to boot, as well as removing the battery backup... which had no battery in it anyway) and flipped the breaker and let the whole thing sit for like 10 minutes. No change. When it's been sitting, the fan will come on in the "Fan On" mode, cooler off. When it's set to cool mode, "Cool On" flashes for a bit, then when it comes on steady the fan immediately shuts off, like as soon as you hear the thermostat click and the compressor come on. But yeah, this is beyond my level of knowledge/give-a-gently caress, I'm gonna let the installers deal with this one.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2014 05:10
|
|
|
Ended up swapping some wires on the air handler control board (thanks again STR) and now I at least have medium fan speed. So it's commanding high speed, probably a bad motor winding or something like that. Installer appointment is scheduled, but they might not get to us today; turns out they're pretty busy in Fl this time of year.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2014 16:10
|
|
|
Do use the thermometer to check vent temps, you're looking for roughly 50F or colder, the closer to freezing the better; if it's very hot and/or muggy, ~30 degrees colder than ambient is sort of the minimum benchmark during initial startup, but it should still get down that low once the cabin is cooled off for a while. And you should be checking the pressures at their peaks, so right before the compressor cuts off.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2014 18:41
|
|
|
If it's coming out the schrader valve, it should indeed be that easy. You'll only need to replace the line if it's leaking out the base of the fitting. Keep in mind further leaks may appear on the high pressure side once the system is fully charged and starts getting up to the proper 220-250 psi range. Look especially closely at any fittings where an o-ring may have dried out, you don't know how long it's been empty.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 15, 2014 08:30
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:That's a nice bit of kit, but $40 is kinda painful. I don't know how expensive an accumulator or receiver/drier is for that car, but it wouldn't hurt to get one; that way you can just vacuum it, replace the valve & drier, vacuum again and recharge properly and know it's done right, without
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2014 08:28
|
|
|
Steel hard line works for everything that's fixed solid to the body, you could use that for the low pressure line and run it along the firewall. If you run along the valve cover, you could also use hardline for that running back from the compressor, for everything fixed solid to the engine. The barrier hoses are needed to join the body-mounted bits to engine-mounted bits, preferably with some extra length to give you more slack for engine vibration/twisting under load. You could also run hardline along the firewall and up the driver's side fender, and just have hose going straight to the compressor. Which side are your condenser inlet/outlet on? Are you fabricating stuff entirely from scratch? E: Barrier hose (the rubber hose you're using) is designed specifically to keep the very small refrigerant molecules from diffusing out (and even so they still do, albeit on the scale of a decade or two), don't go trying to use whatever braided line, as it might not be rated to properly contain gases of that type. Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Oct 24, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2014 03:23
|
|
|
Aluminum is what I meant, sorry. Yes, the compressor should discharge into the top of the condenser -- the hot high-pressure refrigerant condenses inside the condenser (hey, look at that ) and exits through the bottom; you want the condenser discharge to be all liquid.Whatever hardline you currently have should be sufficient diameter, just get more of that.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 24, 2014 04:06
|
|
|
jhcain posted:Uhhh.. I have no idea. It's whatever the folks at Classic Auto Air "engineered" to be "marginally OK, and mostly functional." Changing the length won't do anything but increase the necessary refrigerant charge. The critical parts are the evap and condenser, compressor, reciever-drier/accumulator and expansion valve/orifice tube; if those are right, the system will cool. All the lines and hoses are just for conveyance. Only issue would be if the lines were too small inner diameter and induced a restriction at the wrong point in the system, if they're large enough to flow the needed volume that's all that matters.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 25, 2014 00:08
|
|
|
I know I replied in the stupid questions thread, but as long as the alternator/WP aren't on the same belt as the compressor you should be just fine. I should have clarified, the moisture will get in whether you drive it or not, it won't make a difference either way if it's already been open. Just know that your defrost won't be as effective if you get condensation inside, it uses the A/C to dry the air before warming it back up.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2015 01:47
|
|
|
Depending on the setup, it can either have a reciever-drier (thermostatic expansion valve setup) or an accumulator (if it's a fixed orifice system.) Look for "accumulator", if the part is listed you have the latter setup and that's the part you need.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2015 01:57
|
|
|
Remember to check the static pressures too (with engines off and cold), if they're high for ambient temp you have contamination, which can cause issues on its own as well as indicating other problems.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2015 10:08
|
|
|
Need some help on diagnosis. 03 Mazdaspeed Protege, TXV system. Symptoms: Blows cold initially, then gradually warms to ambient, takes 5-30 minutes depending on outside temp, humidity, phase angle of Mars' two moons... anyway. Symptoms persist after vacuuming for 2 hours and recharging, so I doubt it's contamination; static pressures were where they should be before and after the recharge. When first engaged, pressures briefly reach good pressures (40psi low side, 210 high, about 80F outside temp), then both start quickly dropping, coincident with the blower air warming up. If allowed to run, high side drops below 150, and low side can reach vacuum ranges (I saw this once and shut it off before it ever happened again). Both intuition and Mazda's FSM point to the TXV for these symptoms. Evap box is actually pretty easy to remove, so I pulled it out; lo and behold, I can't blow through the valve at all. Couple questions: 1. Does this seem like the right diagnosis? 2. The TXV should be mostly closed (but still able to blow air through) when warm, and fully open around freezing, right? I stuck an ice cube on the diaphram to chill it down, makes no difference at all. 3. The old TXV was wrapped in this black rubbery adhesive foam, FSM says to install it on any replacement as well. How critical is that, and where can I get it if needed? E: Also, all the lines as well as the valve itself look perfectly clean inside, nice shiny aluminum/brass; it doesn't look like I have any signs of black death going on. Obviously there's no screen like on a fixed orifice system, but how can I very that my compressor's not making GBS threads itself? There's no noise from the compressor or anything, at least. Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Apr 17, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 03:03
|
|
|
BrokenKnucklez posted:The best thing to do next is make drat sure there is no other contamination in the system. Well naturally, but how?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2015 03:21
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Look at the evap. I bet it's icing over when you lose cooling. Yeah it definitely acted like icing (as the cooling went away, the air blowing out felt a lot more damp), and nowhere near as much condensation dripping as I'd expect (the drain is definitely clear). Went and ordered the TXV and a new drier, they'll be here tomorrow, and hopefully I'll have it all buttoned up by tomorrow night. I also managed to drop my service hose on the floor just right to break the fitting. Got a loaner gauge set from AZ to finish the job, I'll have to get a replacement hose off Amazon or something.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 18, 2015 01:14
|
|
|
An 8 year old car might have lost some refrigerant, but there's 0 doubt you've got a leak if it's anywhere close to 0 psi. Put in a can, the leak should show itself fairly quickly. Get a vacuum pump before you try to actually charge it for real, though. 0 psi gauge pressure = 1 atmosphere of absolute pressure, meaning there's about 14.7 psi worth of air (and water vapor!) inside your lines, which you need to vacuum out before you fill it for running.
|
|
#
¿
May 15, 2015 22:56
|
|
|
I'd say R152 (which is briefly mentioned in the OP) would be a better choice if you're looking to actually convert a system.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2015 06:06
|
|
|
If you vacuum the system then start filling, you can invert the can and open the valve with the a/c off. That'll let the refrigerant fill the system and get the dye in, but then let the refrigerant boil off so it's in the gas phase. Once the pressures equalize, lift the can and service hose up above the gauges to make sure all the dye has drained into the system, then turn the can upright, turn the compressor on and continue filling as normal.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 23, 2015 20:10
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 23:30 |
|
|
If it is loose, tighten it as you would a screw. It bottoms out when it's fully tightened to the correct depth. Hopefully it's just that and not the valve itself gone bad. Do make sure the system still has positive pressure before you attempt a recharge (poke the schrader with a screwdriver or something), if so there shouldn't be any moisture inside and you'll probably be fine. If it is
|
|
#
¿
Jun 30, 2015 05:47
|
|