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Motronic posted:R-134a simply isn't a good as R-134a Yes, most of us are aware that R-134a isn't so great, but saying it's not as good as itself... have some consideration for R-134a's feelings, man!
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Mar 16, 2014 21:14
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Gasoline tends to be under a decent amount of pressure too. 
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Apr 5, 2014 02:01
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Goddamnit. My compressor also whines a bit. Not as bad as that (probably half as bad), but it's a noticeable whine inside the car if the windows are down, even at idle. With the windows up, it's a faint whine (above about 3k) that I was hopefully chalking up to the serpentine belt tensioner. Gonna be dropping a good chunk of cash at the parts store Monday for brake stuff, may as well borrow a gauge set and see just how hosed I am.
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Apr 13, 2014 12:16
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This is more curiousity, since I no longer have the vehicle (and got rid of it about 14 years ago). 1980 Ford F-150. The a/c was always cold, though always with a really noisy compressor (loud grinding noise whenever it was on). Whenever I ran it though, within about 30 seconds of shutting off the a/c (or after parking), you'd hear a hissing, then a loud whistling that lasted about 10-15 seconds. What the hell was that whistling?
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Apr 21, 2014 06:31
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It wasn't that; it was something from under the hood. If you grabbed the A/C lines, you could feel them vibrating with the whistling. This was way, way, way too loud to just be the vacuum motors - it was ear-splitting loud if you were standing in front of the truck at the time. Inside? Much quieter. It was loud enough that you could hear it halfway across a parking lot. I eventually did replace the vacuum motors, plus control panel, for the usual reasons - that got the mode selector working properly, and got rid of the hissing from under the dash. Had nothing to do with the whistling though. The whistling would only happen if I'd been running the a/c. Vent? No. Floor? No. Bi-level? No. Off? No. I could force the whistling to start while driving if I ran the a/c for a bit, then turned it off, while driving. Vent and normal a/c both activated the same vacuum components; max added to this by closing off the fresh air intake. the tl;dr is it would only whistle if the mode selector was on a/c or max a/c for a bit. No other position would make it whistle, and the noise was definitely from under the hood and on the passenger side (where all the a/c stuff lived, except for the compressor). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 07:54
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That's basically what I suspected, but I don't know enough about a/c to say one way or the other.
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Apr 21, 2014 08:35
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Adding to that, you can sort of picture the lines in a fixed refrigeration system (like your home a/c) as a very high pressure version of copper water lines. Everything is soldered together; you're most likely to find leaks at junctions between lines and other components (such as your coils, or the outside unit). The lines themselves pretty much never fail unless you, say, run up into your attic (assuming an attic mounted air handler, or lines running through the attic) and step on them or drop something heavy on them. They're generally copper, they deform very easily. Personally, I've only had home a/c freeze up when it was really low on refrigerant; most air handlers push plenty of air. But I've generally lived in houses/apartments where people actually replace the air filters somewhat regularly. I'm going to laugh my rear end off so hard when our HVAC at work finishes crapping out; they've never had an air filter in any of them since the place opened (7 years ago)...
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May 10, 2014 09:32
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So I went to Autozone to use their loan-a-tool program for their a/c set. $120 deposit.  Obviously I get that back at the end, but to be honest, I think I'd be better off just buying a set. How terrible are the Harbor Fright sets? Or hell, even the lower end AutoZone sets? They'd probably get used a half dozen times a year (between family + friends cars). I do plan to eventually get certified for R134a motor vehicle, just to stay legal.
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May 12, 2014 11:27
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If the module is intelligent enough to detect icing (I really doubt it), it would shut off the compressor and run the fan. Also  Seriously. There should be a switch or plug near it - turn it off/unplug it for a minute. If not, flip the breaker for the air handler (it won't be the same breaker for the a/c; the outside unit likely has a 2 pole 240V breaker, while the air handler usually runs on 120V - it'll likely be labelled "air handler" or "furnace"). Leave it off for a minute or so, turn it back on. Before you do this, set the thermostat to "off" (and move the fan switch to "auto"). Switch the thermostat back to cool, see if the fan comes on. If it does, there's something going on in the control board.
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Jun 8, 2014 09:01
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I'm no pro, but that sounds like something in the control board for the air handler. Only thing that comes to mind - there's generally a 3 speed motor in the air handlers, and usually they're wired to run the same speed on both heat and cool (with a jumper wire between the terminals on the board). Most of them default to running the fan motor through the "heat fan" terminal when it's just the fan; if the jumper between the 2 terminals came loose, the fan wouldn't run while it was cooling. It's a long shot. edit: now with picture goodness  randomidiot fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 05:59
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2006 Saturn Ion, 2.2L. A/C components should interchange with a Cobalt. Noticed that every now and then, the a/c will suddenly blow warm muggy air - basically feels like the compressor shuts off for a minute or so. It generally does this immediately after getting off of the highway, coupled with a little bit of fog from the vents. When it's running, the air is cold (I've measured mid 40s with ~90 outside), but occasionally humid air from the vents, occasionally a little fog as well. I've had the car 1 1/2 years, and never touched anything related to the HVAC aside from changing the cabin filter. I don't have a set of gauges (yet - I plan to purchase a set), but I'm assuming it's probably low on refrigerant, and that the low pressure cutout switch is opening after the (sustained ~3k on the highway) RPMs come down a bit. Does this sound like I'm on the right track?
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Jul 3, 2014 11:55
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Welp, at least Harbor Freight has a set of gauges for $60.  AutoZone wants a $120 deposit to rent gauges, may as well just go ahead and buy a set.
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Jul 3, 2014 12:33
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Motronic posted:If it's freezing the evap due to low refrigerant it is most likely tripping the low cutoff, unless that vehicle has an evap temp sensor. Cabin filter is only about 2 months old. The ~1 year old one I removed from it prior was dirty, but not terrible. I do usually keep the fan on "1" (because it gets too drat cold even when it's 95 outside), but I've seen the puff with it on 2 and 3 before. Frozen evap is what I was thinking too. I have no service history on the car prior to my purchase of it (nothing even in dealer records), so there's no telling if the a/c has ever been touched. The low side port cap is missing, so I suspect someone's topped it off once - but being a car that's 9 years old (by build date), I'd think it'd need at least one top off by now anyway. A quick glance at rockauto doesn't show any temp sensors under HVAC except for an ambient temp sensor (which is apparently used solely for the temp display on the mirror). I'll grab a set of gauges on Monday; I'm sure all 3 cars here could use a little a/c love anyway.
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Jul 4, 2014 07:04
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Here's a new one. I know my car (06 Saturn Ion, same as a Chevy Cobalt for the a/c) is low on refrigerant. That said, every now and then, when I come to a stop, the air blows warm... and I get a very, very distinct refrigerant smell from the vents. The cooling capacity has been slowly deteriorating, and this has been happening more often. Today (low 90s), I was sweating in the car with the blower on 3 - normally "1" freezes me out of the car on hotter days, and I often have to run the heat with the a/c if it's below 85. I haven't put a set of gauges on it yet, but if this happened to you, what would be your first guess? Simply undercharged? Something leaking? On my next day off, I plan to get gauges and some R-134A with UV dye so I can figure out what's going on. If it matters, one of the service ports is missing its cap (I think it's the high side, but I'm not 100% - it's the one near the oil dipstick on the Ecotec 2.2). Also, since the cap has been missing for nearly 2 years, would it be a good idea to blow out the area around it with some compressed air before hooking up gauges?
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Aug 15, 2014 09:21
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I think you nailed it already, actually. It crapped out during the hottest part of the day, and I smelled refrigerant. Popped the hood, saw a bit of bubbling around one of the valve cores (the one missing a cap) and heard a little hissing. It's looking like (and I'm REALLY hoping) it's a bad valve core. I'll get some gauges on payday and dump some UV-infused R134a in. I did notice it's only crapping out on the hottest part of the days, which leads me to think the low pressure cutout is saying "sup". Once it dropped below about 90 yesterday, it started working just fine. Above that and it gets flaky and lukewarm; above 95 and it's dead. So let's say I swap a valve core super quick - I know a vacuum is in order, but am I still replacing the receiver/dryer if I do this in, say, 30 seconds? I ask because the R/D are part of the condenser... which means pulling the radiator.. which means a lift... and a new condenser.
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Aug 17, 2014 11:10
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Argenteus posted:They make a valve core tool that doesn't require emptying the system if you want to take that route. That's a nice bit of kit, but $40 is kinda painful.  I have no problem emptying the system (I have a friend with a RobinAir, so it wouldn't be vented to atmosphere - and he could vacuum it + fill it exactly afterwards). I'm just wondering if the 30 seconds of being exposed while replacing the core will mean the need for new dryer. I would do it at his shop, with the machine ready to pull a vacuum.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:11
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The receiver/dryer is part of the condenser; non-replaceable without replacing the entire condenser, and the radiator + fan have to come out (and they only come out from below) to do so. GM took Ford lessons. It's north of $100, plus renting a lift for a couple of hours, and renting a lift means I won't have access to friend's RobinAir. The DIY shop MIGHT have a vacuum pump and recovery equipment, I'll have to check. If they do, I can do the actual recharge myself (friend with the RobinAir isn't even in the same county, much less the same city, as the DIY place - opposite directions).
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Aug 18, 2014 09:50
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EightBit posted:I've learned very quickly that low enough to notice usually means more than 12oz low. My sister's truck has a total capacity of 34oz according to the underhood label. My car's total capacity is 0.9 lbs, according to the label. It's barely cooling, so I guess it's -0.1 now? 
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Aug 23, 2014 17:17
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.... why do I always mix up 12 and 16 oz. But yeah, it's definitely very low. Enough that I don't bother with it during the hottest parts of the day, it just blows coolish humid air when it's 100 with the sun out. That's why I have power windows and a sunroof!
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Aug 24, 2014 12:22
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Do all of the fan speeds still work? The only electrical in the ductwork is usually the fan resistor.
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Sep 25, 2014 07:41
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Pretty drat sure I know the answer to this, but any difference between household/commercial refrigeration R134a and car R134a? We had a compressor replaced at work recently. The tech left behind a 30 pound bottle that feels to be about 1/4 full (guessing by weight). We've been calling him for over a week to come back and pick it up, and he won't return our calls (he also vented the entire system into the restaurant, which made for awesome migraines). I have some Harbor poo poo gauges; all 3 cars here could use a top off, same with my boss's car. I did mention we've been trying to call the guy for over a week, right? And he won't return calls? It's basically abandoned at this point, as far as my boss is concerned. (also he vented the entire system to interior air when he replaced the compressor, did a 5 minute vacuum, and didn't replace the dryer - I give this compressor less than 2 years, the old one was less than a year old and the exact same brand/model).
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Jan 25, 2015 13:59
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kastein posted:Same stuff. R134a is R134a. He still hasn't picked it up, though he did call back a few days ago and said he'd be by "soon". I'll have to properly dispose of/recycle it pretty soon. Just so that it doesn't get into the wrong hands or anything, can't have kids huffing it or venting it or any of that nonsense.  The assistant manager is fully behind my idea of recycling it into his car and the 3 cars at my place.
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 11:43
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So both the Avalon and Ion have been wheezing out barely cool air for awhile. The Ion's been putting out ~60F on warm days (55 at speed), Avalon about 65 (60 at speed). Both cars showed equal readings with gauges and compressor off. Avalon took about half a can before it stopped short cycling - added another half a can, and it got up to 30 PSI (~95F ambient). Another half can, and it's sitting at about 40 PSI, and blowing a nice frosty 38F from the vents on low, low to mid 40s on high. At idle, sitting in the sun. The Ion took a full can (total system capacity is only 14.5 oz  ), and it's still only up to 35 PSI. But even with the fan on high, it's blowing a titty freezing 38-40F. At idle, 95 degrees in the shade.I think both could still use a little more, as the pressures are still a little on the low side (both low and high side are a bit low for the ambient temp). AutoZone has 2 for $20, so I'll probably grab two more and keep one as a spare.
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Jul 21, 2015 02:08
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Avalon in the low 200s. I don't really remember beyond that. I'm actually thinking the gauges may have been hosed - I got my car up to a little under 40 low/190 high and it started short cycling (it'd run for half a second, shut off for 2 seconds, etc), so when I finished filling the Avalon, I just got it to where the compressor was cycling on and off every minute or so with temp vents in the high 30s/low 40s. I didn't pay enough attention to the gauges when the Ion started short cycling, just recovered enough refrigerant to bring it down to where it cycled normally. They were definitely really beat up gauges (cracked lenses etc). I'll buy my own gauges and re-evaluate, or just get a friend with a Robinair to do a full recovery/recharge on both. e: the gauges also showed that my car had <5 PSI when I started, but it was still blowing cool, just not cold. Pretty sure the low pressure switch would have kept anything from happening at 5 psi. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 04:08
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Yup, those gauges were WAY the gently caress off. My car started short cycling today (and the compressor was putting enough load on the engine that the car jerks pretty hard + belt squeals when it cycles). Stuck one of those DIY in a can gauges on... it almost pegged the gauge. (it's an empty can that's been sitting around for a few years.. well, was empty, it actually filled up a bit I think) Needless to say, a significant amount was recovered, and it's not short cycling now. Vent temps are right at 38 now, whereas they were in the teens last night. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 18:23
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Finally bought my own set of gauges. Holllly poo poo were those loaner gauges WAY the gently caress off. I think there's a blockage somewhere in the Saturn - the low side was in the 30s, the high side was sitting at a touch over 300. Certainly explains why the mileage went to poo poo, I'm amazed it wasn't short cycling. I just went ahead and went with the high side readings for the charge (and ignored the low side) and got it down to ~250, which is at the low end for 90F ambient (sun was down). The low side was still in the 30s afterwards, and vent temps are right at 40. I don't know if the funky variable displacement compressor has anything to do with the odd pressures (probably not). The Avalon I managed to get drat close the other day after I gave up on the gauges - it was a touch low when I checked it tonight, but not by much. Vent temps are right at 40 on it as well now, but now the belt (or tensioner) is squeaking a little. 
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Jul 28, 2015 06:18
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:Hilariously I bought a Denso SC400 condenser from ebay US (£125 including postage to the UK!) because it was cheaper than a genuine Toyota one (and there are no aftermarket Soarer ones). Denso is the OEM for most Toyota parts (including compressors), and at one time, was even owned by them. ... and you did mean compressor, right?  I see I'm not the only one with the $55 AutoZone gauges.
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Aug 1, 2015 06:05
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You never know what kind of life the loaner gauges have lead - the ones I borrowed from AutoZone wound up being nearly 100 PSI off on the high side. Also had a cracked gauge face. When I mentioned it to them, they said "*sigh* yeah, unfortunately any idiot can rent them, and they treat them like poo poo". I bought their $55 gauges, turns out my high side was a bit over 300 PSI, not the 210 the loaners were showing. Explains why the compressor would run for about half a second at a time the next day once the sun was out! Oh yeah, R134a is much, much cheaper at Wal-Mart. <$7 can there, usually $10+ for store-brand at AutoZone.
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Aug 12, 2015 06:14
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Blend doors, or the cable from the knob to the blend door broke.
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Aug 15, 2015 21:15
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Odd one happened today. Started my car in the parking lot at work - a/c was left on when parked, and not touched when I started the car. I was pulling up Google Maps on my phone to look up where I was going when I realized (a) I could smell refrigerant pretty strongly and (b) it was blowing hot air from the vents and idling a bit (~300 RPM) higher than it should have been. Turning the a/c off and on got the compressor to kick in, knocked the idle down to where it should be, and got ice cold air (and no smell of refrigerant). But what the hell? Obviously there's a pretty significant leak, one that was enough to trip either the low or high pressure switch (I'll have to throw gauges on it to be sure, but last time I had them on I got some wonky numbers). It was set to fresh air, so I have no idea if the refrigerant smell was coming from inside or outside of the car. The system does have dye in it, so I'll pick up a UV light when I can afford to. Any ideas what happened there? Being DBW, the high idle tells me the PCM probably thought the compressor was engaged (warm engine, car had been parked about 30 min, ~85 outside). 06 Saturn Ion, for those not familiar with my turdmobile.
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Oct 11, 2015 02:39
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My Ion holds about the same amount, and even with a black dash and interior, plus a sunroof, has pretty good a/c. And thanks to an aluminum block, also has a heater that actually starts heating pretty quick. Oddly, the compressor on it doesn't ever cycle, it stays on the entire time the a/c is on - apparently it has some kind of fancy variable displacement compressor. No idea if it's mechanically controlled or electronically controlled, I haven't ever really looked at the compressor. Delphi does seem hold some patents on mechanically controlled variable displacement compressors, so I assume it's probably mechanically controlled on my car.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:43
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So much like everywhere else in the country, we're starting to use the a/c in our cars. Mom turned hers on the other day. Compressor wouldn't engage. Wound up taking almost a full can before the compressor would turn on (22 oz total capacity). When I hooked up the gauges, the low side barely twitched, high side went up a little, so it had.. something in it. Not much. I'm guessing the compressor may have engaged briefly while she was driving, I would expect the low side gauge to move a bit more otherwise. So next weekend it looks like it'll be leak-finding day. I did notice that I got a quick hiss while removing the caps from the service ports, so I'm guessing the schraders are leaking a bit. I hope that's all it is. It's blowing cold for now, at least.. just in time for another cold front!  When I topped it off last summer, one of the cans I used had dye in it.Stupid question - will that dye show up under your typical  fluorescent black light, assuming I check after the sun goes down, or should I go get a real UV light + glasses? I have a 32 watt stoner version..wallaka posted:Yeah, GM makes some damned cold A/C My CobaltG5IonHHR would like to argue with you about this, though I'm sure the black dash and interior don't help. It's mediocre at best during the hottest months, except at highway speeds. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 09:19
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Well, a good chunk of the make-poo poo-cold poo poo leaked back out of her car in 3 days, to the point that the compressor is engaging, but it's not cooling very well. Going by gauges, it took about a full can to get everything looking decent again. It's back to freezing the tits off of a nun... for a day or two. I also noticed Walmart sells a UV pen light + UV safety glasses for a whole $12. Seems like it's a lot easier than taking the stoner light approach. Picked that up, couldn't find anything, so maybe I thought wrong and the stuff I filled it with last year didn't have dye. Going to grab some dye tomorrow, then check it in a day or two and see what's leaking. Please be a bad hose please be a bad hose please be a bad hose don't be the compressor don't be the compressoredit: since I know it's getting opened up, I went to rockauto to price a new receiver/dryer. Apparently you can only get a new desiccant pack?! What the poo poo? How bad of an idea is opening up the receiver/dryer to replace just the desiccant? Apparently it's Denso p/n 4781500. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Apr 15, 2016 |
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Apr 15, 2016 09:03
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Finally got around to throwing dye at mom's car. Motherfucking condenser. At least it's only $60, but I wasn't really wanting to yank the radiator this week.
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May 2, 2016 03:47
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So assuming I keep it topped off with refrigerant and don't let it run low enough to stop cooling, will I harm the compressor by running it with a leaking condenser for a few weeks? Between working and moving, I just don't have the time to replace the condenser yet, and shops seem to want to shotgun most of the system instead of just replacing the leaking condenser (dye confirms the only leaks are the condenser and low side schrader valve - and the dye around the valve could just be from when I disconnected the gauges). Also kinda curious how much oil I'll have to toss in once I do replace it. I didn't see anything oily around where it's leaking from the condenser. Low pressure cutout is definitely working, though it seems to kick in a bit after it stops cooling. e: 2003 Toyota Avalon. Holds 22oz of refrigerant, not sure about oil capacity. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 07:41 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 07:38
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Honestly, I can't say for sure. It looked a little dirty around there, but it's a 13 year old car, so everything looks pretty dirty. It was dark, so I didn't get that close of a look. I didn't see anything that looked fresh beyond the dye. I'll try and get a better look tomorrow. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 10:26 on May 3, 2016 |
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May 3, 2016 10:24
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That... I.. uh... the dye is mixed with oil?  Why the gently caress didn't I think of that?ShittyPostmakerPro posted:This is the safest option, not sure how else you would get oil into the system without getting some air in there as well, unless your manifold gauges have an oil injection port. No injection port, but as Paul W said... there's always the mixed can option. gently caress it. Off to a shop. Got two quotes already - my longtime mechanic wants $900 to do the condenser  ... another well-respected import shop quoted $500. Both seem pretty drat steep to me, but if there's going to be a flush done, the numbers make a lot more sense.Hmm... I wonder something. The condenser has the drier built in, and it's a rebuildable drier. All of the dye seemed to be originating near the top right corner (looking at it from the front of the car), and I think that's where the drier is. Wonder if whatever seal is on it went? I'm sure this is wishful thinking, but it'd be really nice if that was the case.
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May 5, 2016 09:06
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Enourmo posted:well, it is a mid-'00s GM product, that might be a bit of an ask Except it's an 03 Toyota  (mom's car, not mine)
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May 6, 2016 18:05
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Vibration while it's running could cause that drip to hit the cap instead of falling between everything. Same for wind, if that panel had any gaps. How long had it been off when you noticed it starting a bit louder? Residual high side pressure could cause that if it'd only been a couple of minutes.
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Jul 16, 2016 01:28
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Enourmo posted:Some cars use variable displacement compressors instead of cycling. They tend to be more expensive, so I could believe a Cadillac having one. Even my Saturn uses a variable displacement compressor, e: guess not. Just looked up the part numbers on Rockauto, 05 Escalades use fixed displacement compressors. Model differs depending on if it has rear a/c, but all the model #s look like fixed displacement. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 21:39
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