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Gazpacho posted:perl has plenty of syntactic shortcuts, none of them cute and better compared to scouring powder are you like a slobbering 50 year old alcoholic with seeping in dementia
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Jan 19, 2018 07:36
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lol
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Jan 19, 2018 08:09
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never use perl. or python or ruby
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Jan 19, 2018 08:10
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never use anything
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Jan 19, 2018 08:30
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Unlike zfs or btrfs, lvm is not a filesystem. It cannot dynamically adjust free space on a mounted fs to allow for snapshots. Maybe you need to be looking at LVM sparse volumes? All of the LVM except that the partitions are only allocated when you need the space. They come with a performance hit, though.
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Jan 19, 2018 08:40
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never use scripts, just blindly use configuration management or turn everything into a docker image
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Jan 19, 2018 08:42
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apfs is the most advanced bsd filesystem anyway
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Jan 19, 2018 08:44
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lvm is seriously a stupid default for workstations/desktops/laptops. let it be the default if disk count is >1, sure, but seriously, why the hell is lvm2 even an installed package by default in desktop distros. btrfs with subvolumes for /,/home and /var, straight on a gpt partition.
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Jan 19, 2018 10:05
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spankmeister posted:I've only seen SLES used in Germany really. it's also going to become the centos of sles, while tumbleweed becomes the fedora of sles
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Jan 19, 2018 11:18
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the big upside of lvm is, apparently, that it isn't a layering violation
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Jan 19, 2018 11:40
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Punkbob posted:fwiw most non lovely folks I know in infra don’t use rhel or cent or even fedora. it’s only Unix stymie that actually uses red hat based distros, outside of yospos I don’t know any Linux janitors that aren’t installing Ubuntu
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Jan 19, 2018 13:36
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like nbsd pointed out in the past, ubuntu is not terrible if you're running php apps, and most people do.
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Jan 19, 2018 13:38
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Cocoa Crispies posted:it’s only Unix stymie that actually uses red hat based distros, outside of yospos I don’t know any Linux janitors that aren’t installing Ubuntu my work server stack is centos
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Jan 19, 2018 14:04
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cinci zoo sniper posted:my work server stack is centos
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Jan 19, 2018 14:18
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For you centos users: do you manage the deployment or are you just dropping rpms for customers? how many systems do you run, and how do you patch them? what’s your config management look like are you using docker at all? and are you using anything like mesos, kubernetes or nomad to schedule across a fleet of machines? if you are hand janitoring a few centos systems and dropping rpms that’s cool. But once you get past 20 machines even without docker centos/rhel start to be a pain to keep in line. You can use anaconda and build a deploy method around that but no one I know of does that. my favorite parts are when you have to compile the AWS network adaptor and back it into the image with CentOS, which only works on latest releases. Or when cloud-init randomly doesn’t work on rhel.
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Jan 19, 2018 14:56
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cinci zoo sniper posted:my work server stack is centos
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Jan 19, 2018 15:02
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Punkbob posted:For you centos users: for posterity, i dont work in software development, just a company that runs a few financial products - and a website for each. we have handful of servers for each team, and no one knows what the gently caress they are doing (most of our developer (like 90%+ as far as i can tell) don't know english so imagine the level of technical literacy. hence, everything is by hand, no config management, there is an "official" ""investigation"" (launched in november 2017!!!!!!) into "the docker technology" to "study its applicability to our goals" (oh god please kill me, our php+mysql herd has heard of containerization and i cant wait for our prod to be in blue flames when managers zealously whip the project through in 3 weeks) or nomad or mesos or kubernets or ansible or any other buzzwords ive picked up in yospos over the years our only system administration/devops dude (for a thousand strong company; approx. 50 servers (not absolutely all are centos, but those that arent should be even worse given the software they use)) seems to be chill enough that he might actually use something civilised for initial setup, ill give him that, but afterwards it is wild west with people hassling him down to poo poo like "my application cant connect to internet" in my case, our department has two servers, one for my team and one for team across the table so i manage this both more or less since im the only person familiar with the unix in the department. in my case i ssh in and do everything manually since this is mostly out of scope of my duties which don't get any smaller just because i don't want to wait for weeks for someone to set up a server for me. in an ideal world id learn some ansible or whatever to make a nice, not bash, script to migrate our setup across machines, but im not sure how much time that will take and if i want to invest in that given that i may want to migrate this just once, and not even necessarily
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Jan 19, 2018 15:21
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Cocoa Crispies posted:it’s only Unix stymie that actually uses red hat based distros, outside of yospos I don’t know any Linux janitors that aren’t installing Ubuntu let me guess you work for a startup and your infrastructure exists only in aws
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Jan 19, 2018 15:39
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Truga posted:like nbsd pointed out in the past, ubuntu is not terrible if you're running php apps, and most people do. drinking chilled battery acid is pretty good while burning in the fires of hell, downright refreshing in fact
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Jan 19, 2018 15:42
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Cocoa Crispies posted:it’s only Unix stymie that actually uses red hat based distros, outside of yospos I don’t know any Linux janitors that aren’t installing Ubuntu this post is mostly true, but it needs to be read with the understanding that linux janitors are for the most part sad wretched people who are obviously making terrible choices, as it is otherwise also hard to explain why they are linux janitors
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Jan 19, 2018 15:43
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:this post is mostly true, but it needs to be read with the understanding that linux janitors are for the most part sad wretched people who are obviously making terrible choices, as it is otherwise also hard to explain why they are linux janitors then where do you work that is a paragon of Linux janitoring.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:49
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:let me guess you work for a startup and your infrastructure exists only in aws research project doing weird kernel poo poo, but seriously even the at&t project i was on six years ago was all ubuntu
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Jan 19, 2018 15:58
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Punkbob posted:For you centos users: it's all managed through chef scripts, but part of what they do is install the necessary rpms Punkbob posted:how many systems do you run, and how do you patch them? uh few hundred vms i think? no fuckin idea how they get patched i'm not a computer janitor Punkbob posted:what’s your config management look like it looks like an incomprehensible ruby "dsl" that tries to be declarative but isn't, and maybe 2 or 3 people in the company understand it well enough to work with it, and everyone else just defers all that work to them, including me, because i don't want to touch the poop either Punkbob posted:are you using docker at all? yeah sometimes. i also use docker in aws. wanna fight me? Punkbob posted:and are you using anything like mesos, kubernetes or nomad to schedule across a fleet of machines? no because the guy who came up with our config/deploy management did so before such tools became popular, and now he's gone and nobody else wants to do it
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Jan 19, 2018 20:49
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:when i was a kid, trying to figure out this weird "linux" thing that would let me install unix on a home PC, nbsd confirmed not as old as he pretends to be on the Internet
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Jan 19, 2018 20:54
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Punkbob posted:do you manage the deployment or are you just dropping rpms for customers? what does any of this have to do with desktop operating systems
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Jan 19, 2018 22:42
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Soricidus posted:what does any of this have to do with desktop operating systems nothing. but this is the defacto Linux thread. if this thread is supposed to just be desktop Linux then there is only one post needed: lol, no.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:21
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eschaton posted:nbsd confirmed not as old as he pretends to be on the Internet i have never pretended to be old on the internet i am still in my 30s my dude
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Jan 19, 2018 23:29
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Punkbob posted:if this thread is supposed to just be desktop Linux then there is only one post needed: tbf that was like the first three pages of the thread
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Jan 19, 2018 23:30
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as a linux expat, i like to chime in once in a while to help dissuade noobs from wasting there time with linux as a desktop
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Jan 20, 2018 00:36
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i have a link to virtual box on my desktop, that counts right
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Jan 20, 2018 01:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i have never seen a csh script in use in my working life not even as /etc/rc on a BSD-derived system like SunOS or NEXTSTEP? I’m pretty sure NeXT used csh for /etc/rc through OPENSTEP 4.2, in addition to using it as the default user shell until like Mac OS X 10.3 (though as tcsh for all of Mac OS X, thanks Wilfredo) quote:i also never understood what made csh scripting any worse than ksh or bash. they are all hot piss from a dick. there was a “csh considered harmful” rant many years back that went into the details about this the short version is that there are serious ambiguities in the syntax that make csh more dangerous for scripting than even sh that’s why scripts should be written in scsh
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Jan 20, 2018 04:43
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:this post is mostly true, but it needs to be read with the understanding that linux janitors are for the most part sad wretched people who are obviously making terrible choices, as it is otherwise also hard to explain why they are linux janitors what else would they janitor these days though not BSD, right? it’s not really supported via any sort of large scale hosting that I know of. and also: not Solaris not AIX not HP-UX not not Irix not something truly wack like DG-UX there’s not really any other reasonable server platform on the market besides Linux and BSD, and nobody really supports the latter
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Jan 20, 2018 05:04
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digitalocean has freebsd vms
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Jan 20, 2018 05:50
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eschaton posted:what else would they janitor these days though you are taking an over-the-top post rather too seriously, the intended reading however is that someone who has made it their job to janitor linux (and here one could toss in janitoring any computers really but the theme of thread and post was linux) should not be trusted for advice on what to janitor, as it presupposes an already bad life choice Punkbob posted:then where do you work that is a paragon of Linux janitoring. well, i have never worked anywhere in the post-rhel era where anything but rhel has been used, and it has then administered largely by old grumpy guys who i did not fraternize with so deeply as to get on the subject of what they ran on computers at home. i'd be willing to bet most were running whatever the computers came installed with however, as none of them ever struck me as people who could be bothered to mess about with these things at home
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Jan 20, 2018 06:15
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eschaton posted:what else would they janitor these days though z/OS
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Jan 20, 2018 06:31
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pram posted:digitalocean has freebsd vms i used one to host a perl app a while back. i have done questionable things.
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Jan 20, 2018 06:35
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eschaton posted:not even as /etc/rc on a BSD-derived system like SunOS or NEXTSTEP? aside from some crufty sysadmin desktops I have never seen sunOS 4 in a work situation used to have a sunOS 4 machine at home for fun but that doesn’t count
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Jan 20, 2018 07:01
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eschaton posted:what else would they janitor these days though DGUX, IRIX, and tru64 are all officially dead hpux is still “supported” but only on old lovely hardware Solaris and Aix are both officially alive but their vendors don’t seem eager to sell it to anyone. (IBM pushes Linux on POWER really hard; oracle wants to sell their fully integrated exadata thingies)
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Jan 20, 2018 07:04
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I saw a dgux machine at work once. It was powered off on a pallet (it was huge) with a stickie note to call bob or somebody before disposing of it I seriously think it has been sitting on that pallet for twenty years
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Jan 20, 2018 07:05
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for a while I thought people wearing A|X shirts were some weird Unix hipsters.
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Jan 20, 2018 08:17
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