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Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Haven't most industrialising nations followed a similar path?

IP law is a scheme to create and then and protect property, it doesn't make sense to create it until you're the one who will have the property.

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Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Is national PPP GDP a useful measure of anything? PPP per capita gives you a better idea of quality of life, but a larger national figure doesn't help you when international deals are still worked out in nominal dollars.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

I can't wait for all the terrible The Indian Century articles in the ten-twenty year range.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Ardennes posted:

The US can hold a large amount of debt, by virtue of the US dollar being so wildly used andit won't devalue unless the Fed wants it to.

Japan and European countries that didn't kneecap themselves with the Euro can also print money freely without repercussion. Whatever the criteria are, being a reserve currency is not a necessary one.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Canute With Chinese Characteristics

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

What are the prospects for this affecting, or not affecting, other parts of the world?

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

So much for the end of explosive growth in China.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

So what's going on with the Chinese economy?

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

I heard they were having some problems, glad to hear they got them under control in time for the big parade.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007


Arkane in 2013 posted:

So I just watched this ~50 minute talk by Kyle Bass, the hedge fund guru who bet heavily on the mortgage crisis in 2007, and he has determined that without a shadow of a doubt Japan is hosed. It's an interesting watch if economics is your fancy.

Bass puts an ~18-24 month time-frame before the country collapses. He doesn't seem to be hedging or demurring at all on the subject, either: it is a mathematical certainty in his eyes. One of the questioner asks him what he would do if he was Prime Minster and he says point blank "I'd quit" and he wasn't being cute.

http://media.chicagobooth.edu/mediasite/Viewer/?peid=f15d95d054e8442ab0cc1c60321383101d

Anyone with knowledge of Japanese monetary policy want to weigh in?

Chinese statements about their economy have limited credibility, but there's a cottage industry of financial analysts who don't understand how money or macroeconomics work making bank predicting doom for $COUNTRY, and they have none at all.

Peel fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Feb 12, 2016

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Sorry, that should have been 'Arkane in 2013'. The time limit for the collapse of Japan came and went without so much as a blip.

Remember that Western nations and Japan have flooded their banks with liquidity in recent times via QE, and yet they are failing to get their inflation up to target. This is despite hysteria from financial commentators and politicians about how hyperinflation is around the corner due to money printing.

Recessions cause deflationary pressure. If the Chinese government spends enough money to arrest this in response to the slowdown, they will be doing more than Western governments did in response to ours, and so hewing closer to orthodox economics.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Not if money velocity goes down by half, and that's assuming you believe Bass's figures.

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

tsa posted:

It's not devious, it's a question of sustainability. A lot of people seem to forget why, keynsianism works so drat well in the US: the US can borrow at absurdly low interest rates even in fairly dim economic periods, sometimes even below 0%, backed by being the worlds reserve currency and sole world superpower status. If need be, the US could be nearly completely self sufficient, perhaps needing to import a bit of fuel (but even that is quickly changing with alt energy), has an incredibly productive economy, and their companies are either top in the world or very close to it. I think a lot of people think that dumping money into any economy works the same way and it just isn't the case. In cases like Greece and China, you just can't dump money into a fire pit forever, eventually financial gravity will return you to earth.

The whole 'pay a person to dig a whole and another to fill it up' has a whole shitton of caveats to it.

The US government enjoys low rates because it is stable and controls its own currency so there is negligible default risk (continued debt ceiling fiascos could threaten this, god forbid an actual brief default). China is similar, as are the UK, Japan, Canada and so on. Greece is completely unlike China because it doesn't control its own currency so can default involuntarily, which is why it had the problem it had: it simply didn't have the money to continue to function except at the sufferance of the powerful Eurozone countries, which demanded austerity as a condition of funding, which further imploded the Greek economy and worsened the government's fiscal position. The 'dim economic periods' you mention otherwise contribute to low rates in these countries. All the advanced economies that didn't suffer the self-inflicted debt crisis of the Eurozone have had low rates in the recent depression. That the USA has a unique benefit of low bond rates and high debt capacity due to the reserve currency is a common misconception. It may gain some additional benefit, but it's not that important.

A quick look around gives a current rate of 1.55% for a US government 10-year bond, compared to 2.69% for China, 0.54% for the UK, and -0.1% (negative) for Japan. Euro-area rates are also low these days since the ECB indicated it would act as a lender of last resort, but those countries are capable of a Greek crisis in a way that China simply isn't.

The example of Japan's stratospheric public debt suggests that a Chinese deficit is sustainable for a very long time. What China isn't going to get is a return to the good old days of double-digit growth, and if both the state and the private sector are diseased in their ability to find productive investments (which the vanishing of economic information under a fog of bullshit will contribute to) it could be depressed instead. If they try to do too much, the standard Keynesian logic would give them higher inflation but no material benefit. That lack of material benefit could lead to unrest in the longer term, even if they avoid unrest in the shorter term.

Peel fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 12, 2016

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Peel
Dec 3, 2007

Fojar38 posted:

edit: Also did R Guyovich just claim that it's impossible to be imperialist without also being capitalist

No.

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