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Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
"Not enough resources" + "Too many people" = I hope nobody's patented my 'soylent' idea yet.

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Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
If there's just one thing I know about bubbles, it's that they keep expanding in perpetuity.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
If the gov't keeps the market above a certain level, is this just a window of opportunity for individual investors to get their money out? I'm wondering if they're more trying to avoid wiping out people's savings or they just can't abide the market crashing in principle (as that would greatly offend the feelings etc etc.)

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Clearly I have very deep misunderstandings about how markets are supposed to work.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
If those stocks stay suspended they won't have to pay back the loan? So the CCP is basically shoveling tons of money under the other shoe to stop it from dropping, but that will only defer it unless people go crazy and start buying stock again.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Well... if you accept that there is a market you have to accept that the market will determine what things sold in the market are worth. The government was more than happy to ride along when people were irrationally borrowing money to plow into stocks that were already well overvalued - this is just the other side of the same coin. The CCP can take steps to limit the damage caused by the collapse but if they try to make a rule that the market can only go up, things sold in the market are no longer worth what the market says they are and, well, there's not much point to it at that stage.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
The market is red, the A shares rise
China now has Xi Jinping
He commands the market to ever increase
U er hai yo
He's a pretty amazing guy

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
If the RMB were traded completely freely tomorrow, would the market regard it as overvalued or undervalued? My impression is that those who accuse China of both manipulating the RMB and keeping it undervalued wouldn't be very happy in that situation.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

Arglebargle III posted:

The "it's happening" thing was more because this looks like the beginning of a whole-economy slide with the stock market collapsing despite insane measures to prop it up and now central bank measures to prop up the export sector that was already slumping and looking overcapacity. I don't think the economy is going to improve.

Easy, just say the GDP grew 7% next year - instant growth!

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Where are people getting 7000-70000 casualties? BBC has like 7 dead, 700 injured. I mean I know China would lowball it but is the discrepancy that much?

I doubt they have a good idea of the actual numbers at this point, not that they'd necessarily say them if they did.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

Arglebargle III posted:

How long ago did this happen? The source on all the wire services "7 dead" seems to be People's Daily.

About 23:30 local time, so 11:30 EST.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
This is the most complete video I've seen

http://video.weibo.com/show?fid=1034%3Adc65aafd8a97629626a8b7c27c9d38ff

Terrifying stuff. And yeah, no point trying to guess the cost at this stage.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Third, no?

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
With pure juche alone.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
It's also possible that what they thought were the real numbers were as fake as what they say the real numbers are and they only beginning to grasp the depth of the problem.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
... oh, goodie.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
I prefer sandwiches over two-headed geckos, personally.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

Zohar posted:

Well there we go.

"Authorities want to stabilize equities before a Sept. 3 military parade celebrating the 70th anniversary of the World War II victory over Japan."

Funny how their market reforms have led to massive government intervention for purely political reasons.

No, wait, not funny. What's that other word. Unfunny, that's the one.


VVV ah, shouldn't have second-guessed myself

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Generalized chaos brought on by numerous factors is how I see it; general global economic decline and malaise in combination with global warming's effects on food production and human migration is scary to me.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
My understanding of the pension thing in particular is that it was likely planned all along, is not a bad or terrible thing in and of itself, and will have a minor effect on what's going on right now. The kerfuffle is more about the timing of the move and how it feeds into perceptions of government scrambling to stabilize the market.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

I think why it wasn't such a terrible thing was that the current options for pension investments are very poor/limited? Can't find my sources right now.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
You're under arrest for spreading malicious rumors!

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
So now there's a lot of high explosives just chilling on ships for the foreseeable future?

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
At some point the government will have bought all the shares that people are trying to sell and the market will be stabilized! No problemo.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
I just made bad posts in order to lull my opponents into a false sense of security, then _wham!_ great post out of nowhere. Those are all hushed up by Lowtax, though, so you probably haven't heard of them.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Plus all the drone strikes these days, which seems to me to be something they really shouldn't be doing on the regular. (Should be handled by some other agency.)

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
A man, a plan, a canal, no money - Nicaragua!

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
I suppose if they have to rebuild their eastern seaboard every couple of decades that will help provide an outlet for their infrastructure investments.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
If they had reservations, they shouldn't have reserved them.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost

icantfindaname posted:

If China has similar growth to other countries at its level of development it's going to be in for a nasty surprise. Look at Russia, Brazil, Argentina, etc. Looking at this website most middle-income countries do about 5% GDP growth in a good year, and that's without demographic issues. China will probably do worse than that in the short-term future to balance out the last 15 years of hyper-growth and because of the banking issues. Then in 15 or 20 years when the demographic bomb implodes China like Japan will be completely hosed. Arguably even more so, at least Japan could theoretically fix the problem with more immigration and better family policy and just don't because of political dysfunction, with China it's going to be actually impossible to fix because 1.5 billion people can't really be topped up with immigration

Good news, large portions of the Middle East and equatorial regions will be uninhabitable in the future and there will be a lot of people looking for somewhere else to go!

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Also if you do it as a ratio of GDP to population.

Which isn't necessarily a good thing, of course.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
"This is great, but we were really looking for advice on how to make it never go down anymore."

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
The sunroofs are a nice feature as well.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Yes, IBM sold Lenovo their laptop unit so they did start off just selling Thinkpads. As time goes on their new products get worse and worse (at least from the perspective of somebody who likes their old Thinkpad.)

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
I dunno, obviously it's sort of hanging on still but it's neutered as far as being an actual market goes. More interesting is the upcoming debt crisis I think.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
Not unlike certain aspects of the Chinese economy, one might venture.

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Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
And a big thanks to the moderation team for letting this become another GBS thread.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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