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Prurient Squid posted:Another thing (sorry if I'm going over old ground), I'm about as anti-capitalist as you can get but if you make me choose between which is more evil, Monstato or the anti-vaccination movement I'd be hard pressed to give an answer. This isn't like attacking big pharma whilst being in favour of homeopathy it's much more malignant. Honestly, I'm really starting to see anti-science sentiments as something utterly foul and not just an annoyance. You shouldn't be hard-pressed, as the anti-vaccination movement basically would kill millions if they got their way, if not billions, while Monsanto is thoroughly unremarkable as an agriculture supply company.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:08
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The problems that exist with big pharma exist within the corporate structure, and are not unique to the pharma industry, nor are they intrinsically linked to the products produced by "big pharma" (which is to say, essentially all modern medicine). The problem a lot of these kooks have is that they look at the problems within the industry and think that somehow means all the resultant products are somehow bad, which is, of course, complete nonsense. It's a very harmful viewpoint, I agree that it goes far beyond a mere annoyance.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:12
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Didn't Monsanto make Agent Orange, the defoliant that lead to birth defects in Vietnam? Anyway, that's not my point, you can swap Monsanto for any scummy pharmaceutical corporation. All I'm saying is if option A is supporting corporate malpractice and option B is supporting dangerous pseudoscience then I'm going for option C!
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Aug 18, 2016 17:24
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Prurient Squid posted:Didn't Monsanto make Agent Orange, the defoliant that lead to birth defects in Vietnam? Anyway, that's not my point, you can swap Monsanto for any scummy pharmaceutical corporation. All I'm saying is if option A is supporting corporate malpractice and option B is supporting dangerous pseudoscience then I'm going for option C! Then the robber said "Your wallet or your life" and I just looked at him and replied "No thank you, I'm going for option C, which is..."
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Aug 18, 2016 17:30
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Prurient Squid posted:Didn't Monsanto make Agent Orange, the defoliant that lead to birth defects in Vietnam? Anyway, that's not my point, you can swap Monsanto for any scummy pharmaceutical corporation. All I'm saying is if option A is supporting corporate malpractice and option B is supporting dangerous pseudoscience then I'm going for option C! Multiple companies did, but you should hardly be surprised that a company based around farming supplies made something for killing plants you don't want. Or that they're horrible to ingest, you don't go around drinking weed-killer on purpose, do you? There is no option C, and the anti-vaccination movement is hands down worse on all counts than any major corporation that exists today.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:37
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Ironically antivax and antigmo companies are both significantly more capitalist than their pro science equivalants since there is quite a bit of publically funded and controlled actual scientific medical and genetics research, while the antivax, homeopathy and gmo free movements are all entirely built around selling things and making money by pushing a consumerist approach towards ineffective solutions. Also if you want a bad pharma company you should go with Bayer or something not Monsanto, Monsanto doesnt even do pharma and Bayer actually is the unfeeling corporate monstrosity people make Monsanto out to be.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:27
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Monsanto the current Ag company also is largely not the same company as it was during the Vietnam era, there have been a bunch of mergers and spin offs and all that corporate jazz and pretty much all that remains is the name and a few of their bigger Ag products, while the rest of the company that did non-Ag stuff has a new name and is completely separate.
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Aug 18, 2016 19:34
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Prurient Squid posted:Didn't Monsanto make Agent Orange, the defoliant that lead to birth defects in Vietnam? Anyway, that's not my point, you can swap Monsanto for any scummy pharmaceutical corporation. All I'm saying is if option A is supporting corporate malpractice and option B is supporting dangerous pseudoscience then I'm going for option C! I thought that was mostly Dow chemical. Could be wrong.
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Aug 18, 2016 20:20
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That Works posted:I thought that was mostly Dow chemical. Could be wrong. Agent Orange contracts went out to most of the major agrichemical and just plain chemical companies. Dow probably was the biggest manufacturer just because they've always had the most capacity for manufacturing about anything, but not because they really loved agent orange or anything.
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Aug 19, 2016 00:20
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Consider also that the organic movement spends tons of money popularizing the image of small family farms serving the local community in a sustainable, pesticide-free way when in reality organic products are basically produced in the same way as non-organic products. It's all hardcore capitalism still but even more lovely and deceptive
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Aug 19, 2016 00:28
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The organic movement is full of up-their-own-rear end middle class (or better) people who want to feel better than you while also being easy marks for people to fleece. They're only slightly less idiotic than the people who defend Raw Milk.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:07
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It's worth remembering that the organic movement was started by a bunch of well off rich people in Britain during World War II, who decided they got to start being super loving picky about their food in the midst of a crisis when every amount of modern farming technique known was needed to keep the drat country fed. There have few people who are more out of touch in history.
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Aug 19, 2016 01:12
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thespaceinvader posted:Which is dumb as poo poo because (if you believe that kind of thing) he sent us the scientists who cured the loving plagues for a reason. I was just being facetious, ultra-fundies should have no problem with vaccines because they believe god could just make super ebola flu to get rid of us any time he wants.
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Aug 19, 2016 11:46
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fishmech posted:Agent Orange contracts went out to most of the major agrichemical and just plain chemical companies. Dow probably was the biggest manufacturer just because they've always had the most capacity for manufacturing about anything, but not because they really loved agent orange or anything. Ah, not surprised.
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Aug 19, 2016 11:48
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Evil Fluffy posted:The organic movement is full of up-their-own-rear end middle class (or better) people who want to feel better than you while also being easy marks for people to fleece. They're only slightly less idiotic than the people who defend Raw Milk. 
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Aug 19, 2016 23:33
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MeLKoR posted:I was just being facetious, ultra-fundies should have no problem with vaccines because they believe god could just make super ebola flu to get rid of us any time he wants. Eventually you get to the level of initiation/comprehension where spiritual warfare makes sense. Rock music is "sinful". "Almighty God"'s influence does not extend to "worldly" things. "God" could totally kill you, but chooses not to because he's so "loving". The "God" of the church is separate from every other church and their false gods. It's abuser logic turned to 10. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Aug 20, 2016 |
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Aug 20, 2016 01:30
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