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In my experience, it's all about identity politics. Antivaxxers are antivaxxers because that's they think they are supposed to be. It's the "left-wing" version of the abortion protestors who are more than happy to make use of the services they are protesting against because as long as they return to the picket line their identity remains intact. I personally know a great girl who is a major anti-vaxxer, and has recently moved to hollywood to pursue her acting career, and honestly - it doesn't seem that it's about logic or evidence or anything like that to her. It's just another piece of her image, a tool to define who she is, and she doesn't care about the consequences because they aren't real to her. It's a fashion accessory that grants a whole bunch of psychological benefits to those who hold that view. I can also kind of see how it got started because let's be honest most doctors and the medical system in general is kinda poo poo, and it's not really surprising if people begin to suspect some of that incompetence is outright malevolance when you're the one repeatedly getting screwed over and conned. This doesn't exactly justify their tendency to run to the nearest obvious con man who offers an alternative, but... I can at least understand the desire.
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Mar 26, 2014 17:58
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Solkanar512 posted:But if someone out there wants to talk about how raspberry leaf tea will strengthen the uterus for labor, they lap it up. I know there are a lot of libertarian folks out there who don't want anyone to tell them what to do, I more frequently see this attitude among the political left. Lifestyle leftists are the scum of the earth.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:01
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ReidRansom posted:The cynic in me expects that a market for exemption-friendly doctors is just going to pop up similar to what you see for medical marijuana, negating some of the potential impact. That's a definite possibility . Hopefully the state medical board isn't so timid that it won't go after doctors like this because failure to provide appropriate counseling on vaccination is absolutely a breach of standard of care. I know the American Academy of Pediatrics is taking a very aggressive stance on the subject. There's a debate right now as to whether pediatricians should dismiss patients from their practices for refusing vaccinations. From what I understand they're working on a formal policy statement but there has definitely (and rightfully so) been an upswing in patients being dismissed from practices for being anti-vaccination morons. I know that if I found out my kid's pediatrician was anti-vaccination I would immediately file a complaint with their hospital/practice group and the state medical board. They should not be allowed to continue practicing medicine.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:02
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Rhandhali posted:That's a definite possibility . Hopefully the state medical board isn't so timid that it won't go after doctors like this because failure to provide appropriate counseling on vaccination is absolutely a breach of standard of care. I know the American Academy of Pediatrics is taking a very aggressive stance on the subject. There's a debate right now as to whether pediatricians should dismiss patients from their practices for refusing vaccinations. From what I understand they're working on a formal policy statement but there has definitely (and rightfully so) been an upswing in patients being dismissed from practices for being anti-vaccination morons. I doubt there's a serious anti-vaccination contingent among actual doctors, but I've been surprised before.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:24
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I doubt there's a serious anti-vaccination contingent among actual doctors, but I've been surprised before. I would like to think so, but I can totally envision concierge practices emerging where they promise not to bother parents about vaccinations beyond the legally minimum discussion necessary for them to get their exemption. It's not unlike some doctors labeling themselves as "fat friendly" and promising not to tell that if you don't lose weight and exercise you're going to have diabetes/hypertension/cardiovascular disease/death at a young age.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:31
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It may not be medically accurate or remotely sincere, but that doesn't mean it isn't good business.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:33
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E-Tank posted:Its less that, and more lacking in knowledge of exactly how dangerous diseases are. A mother hears that your child might be turn autistic if you get him vaccinated thinks "Well, if he gets sick I can take him to the doctor and we can get medicine for that sickness. . . but autism has no cure and that's *FOREVER!*" This would be a good counter-argument if all diseases that we vaccinated against were horrible, awful diseases, but then you've got stuff like chicken pox. Chicken pox is very rarely fatal, it's just uncomfortable as hell for a week. That is, as long as you get chicken pox when you're relatively young, because it can really wreck you if you get it while you're an adult (75% of deaths are in adults, versus <10% of the cases). And the vaccines for this aren't permanent, they're just good for a decade or so, so the only thing you're doing is pushing the disease off until a time when it's roughly 10x as lethal. Vaccines are great for the lethal stuff, but they are medical treatment and do carry risks, and it's really unnecessary to take those risks for something as minor as chicken pox (unless there's some other risk factor that might make it worse for you). Sometimes just sucking it up and dealing with itchy blisters for a week is really the best course of action. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 18:40
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Paul MaudDib posted:This would be a good counter-argument if all diseases that we vaccinated against were horrible, awful diseases, but then you've got stuff like chicken pox. Chicken pox is very rarely fatal, it's just uncomfortable as hell for a week. That is, as long as you get chicken pox when you're relatively young, because it can really wreck you if you get it while you're an adult (75% of deaths are in adults, versus <10% of the cases). And the vaccines for this aren't permanent, they're just good for a decade or so, so the only thing you're doing is pushing the disease off until a time when it's roughly 10x as lethal. The same could be said of measles, but we still vaccinate for measles.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:43
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Zeroisanumber posted:The same could be said of measles, but we still vaccinate for measles. Does measles have a super measles variant like shingles that only pops up in adults? And does the measles vaccine wear off by the time you're an adult? Chicken pox is a bit of a corner case considering it's one of the few disease more dangerous for adults than children.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:51
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I doubt there's a serious anti-vaccination contingent among actual doctors, but I've been surprised before. Sadly relevent and of considerable concern.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:56
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Paul MaudDib posted:Vaccines are great for the lethal stuff, but they are medical treatment and do carry risks, and it's really unnecessary to take those risks for something as minor as chicken pox (unless there's some other risk factor that might make it worse for you). Sometimes just sucking it up and dealing with itchy blisters for a week is really the best course of action. Chicken pox really fucks with a developing fetus. Just because a disease isn't lethal doesn't mean that that symptoms such as malformed organs should be tolerated.
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Mar 26, 2014 18:56
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Solkanar512 posted:Chicken pox really fucks with a developing fetus. Just because a disease isn't lethal doesn't mean that that symptoms such as malformed organs should be tolerated. Which is a really great argument not to use a vaccine that pushes the window of susceptibility back to the age when most people are trying to have children. Last time I checked most people in the age range where chicken pox strikes in the absence of vaccination (exposure is 90% in the <15 age group) are not trying to get pregnant. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 19:00
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Paul MaudDib posted:Which is a really great argument not to use a vaccine that pushes the window of susceptibility back to the age when most people are trying to have children. Yes, pregnant women are never, ever around children. Nor do pregnant women breathe air which may contain the virus. Come on.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:06
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Solkanar512 posted:Yes, pregnant women are never, ever around children. If this pregnant woman didn't have the vaccine, there's a >95% chance that she is exposed and therefore immune to it (and baby is safe). If she did have the vaccine (meaning it wore off), then she almost certainly is not immune to it and there are severe medical risks involved. quote:I am pregnant and been in contact with chickenpox or shingles
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Mar 26, 2014 19:09
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Peel posted:It may not be medically accurate or remotely sincere, but that doesn't mean it isn't good business. It's like other fields in that most doctors are ethical but there can be financial benefits to bending or breaking professional ethics. For example, there are doctors whose bread-and-butter is recommending medically unnecessary surgeries so that they can bill medicaid/medicare/insurance companies for the procedure. And, as with other fields, other doctors and professional associations have an incentive to ignore that behavior until it becomes pretty flagrant. If there's a law that requires you to consult a pediatrician before you can endanger your kids, there's probably going to be a niche market for pediatricians who will just gently validate your anti-vaccine woo bullshit in exchange for a premium fee. That said, the people who are going to look for that are the "hard" anti-vaccination parents who never intended to do it in the first place. I think the bill will work just fine for educating parents whose objection to vaccines is much more vague and squishy, who are liable to just go to their GP and wind up absorbing some facts.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:11
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Paul MaudDib posted:This would be a good counter-argument if all diseases that we vaccinated against were horrible, awful diseases, but then you've got stuff like chicken pox. Chicken pox is very rarely fatal, it's just uncomfortable as hell for a week. That is, as long as you get chicken pox when you're relatively young, because it can really wreck you if you get it while you're an adult (75% of deaths are in adults, versus <10% of the cases). And the vaccines for this aren't permanent, they're just good for a decade or so, so the only thing you're doing is pushing the disease off until a time when it's roughly 10x as lethal. Before vaccination the CDC clocked in about 18,000 hospital admissions a year and 150 deaths due to these "itchy blisters". We don't have great data on this because of the pervasiveness of your attitude - it's just "itchy blisters" and not a notifiable disease like measles; as best as can be told the actual impact was greater. Between 1995 when the vaccine was first licensed and 2011 there were approximately 115 deaths attributed to the vaccine. It's estimated that the number of deaths prevented every year is over 100 with about 10,000 hospitalizations a year prevented. Chickenpox also has a massive economic impact in terms of lost school days and lost work days from parents tending to their children, completely aside from the costs associated with thousands upon thousands of hospital days. Rhandhali fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 19:14
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GlyphGryph posted:In my experience, it's all about identity politics. It's more than a fashion accessory, there are a lot of true believers. Anti-vaxxers are the leftwing equivalent of climate change deniers. Science doesn't back them up, however a few well paid nutjobs made fraudulent studies and unprovable claims about the so-called horrors and ineffectiveness of vaccines. Since the vaccines come from large corporations, a group that the left tends to find fairly repugnant, the anti-vaxxers jump in. The "evidence" they accept fits their preconceived notion of the world. Its just the same as the climate change deniers. Anthropocentric Climate change is backed up by science, but a few wackjobs have a hosed up study here or there to defend their case. The rightwing has a large distrust of universities, which they denounce as "liberal and elitist" so they deny climate change. Same motivations and justifications as the anti-vaxxers, just with a different preconceived villain.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:14
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Paul MaudDib posted:This would be a good counter-argument if all diseases that we vaccinated against were horrible, awful diseases, but then you've got stuff like chicken pox. Chicken pox is very rarely fatal, it's just uncomfortable as hell for a week. That is, as long as you get chicken pox when you're relatively young, because it can really wreck you if you get it while you're an adult (75% of deaths are in adults, versus <10% of the cases). And the vaccines for this aren't permanent, they're just good for a decade or so, so the only thing you're doing is pushing the disease off until a time when it's roughly 10x as lethal. Herd immunity is, again, a real thing, and vaccines don't just protect your kid, but everyone.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:16
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Cache Cab posted:The issue for me is the level of toxic substances they put in the vaccines. I only shop at organic co-ops, store everything in glass bottles instead of plastic, and don't allow any unnatural cleaning products into my house, so why would I pump my kids full of inorganic substances? I really hope this poster doesn't just up and leave, even though they probably will. I really would like to know what on earth would make someone think like this because it's so out there and insane. Nice custom title though 
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Mar 26, 2014 19:16
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Herd immunity is a myth, guys. Vaccines only last two to ten years so obviously vaccines can't confer herd immunity when so many of the vaccinated people aren't immune anymore. That wasn't remotely true, of course, but that's what these people believe, and that's because of some doctor named Russell Blaylock. I don't know who this guy is but he likes to call people "collectivists." Who the hell is this guy? Oh, and I wanted to share this, because this paragraph from an anti-vaxxer, responding to the articles accusing anti-vaxxers of bringing back measles, inspired me to start the thread: http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/thanks-pharma-you-created-the-anti-vaccine-movement/ quote:I’ll end with the sentence in the article that said: “I hope the anti-vaccine movement somehow loses steam”. Wake up Pharma. Wake the hell up. There is no such thing as an “anti-vaccine movement”. You created it. You got greedy and added 49 vaccines to the childhood schedule before a child starts Kindergarten. You created an entire generation of sick children. We know them as vaccine injured child. Guess what? These children ARE vaccinated. You know, the GREATER GOOD. The parents believed the lie. They did what they were told. The took their kids in for the shots. This movement is called truth. And it will never lose steam. Not until you stop harming and injuring children. This movement is only growing. This movement is just getting it’s steam. Your articles like the one today, they fuel us. And as one final note, the anti-vaxx movement knows no political boundaries. It is shared by crazy "all-natural" hippies and science-hating Tea Party moms alike. MisterBadIdea fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 19:16
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MisterBadIdea posted:Herd immunity is a myth, guys. Vaccines only last two to ten years so obviously vaccines can't confer herd immunity when so many of the vaccinated people aren't immune anymore. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Herd_immunity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 19:19
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MisterBadIdea posted:And as one final note, the anti-vaxx movement [url=http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/01/29/vaccination-is-neither-red-nor-blue/]knows no political boundaries. It is shared by crazy "all-natural" hippies and science-hating Tea Party moms alike. This may be true, but it shouldn't stop me as a leftist from calling out my fellow leftists when they start adopting anti-science positions.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:21
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My uncles wife is hardcore into this poo poo, including getting her "Doctor of Naturopathy" from Trinity School of Natural Health. Yes, you are a doctor from an online program that cost you less than $5,000, you "finished a 5-year program in 2 years," and I should listen to you over my GP and my neurologist about my migraines. Normally I'd just dismiss it as bullshit and move on with my life, but my 8-yo niece is diagnosed autism spectrum and ADHD and doing occupational therapy and on medication. At least she is now. For almost two years when she was 3-5 years old, my sister was talking Hadley out to my aunt's clinic to get biofeedback and detoxifying footbaths, was prescribed a gluten free diet, and ended up convinced by the biofeedback results that "hurr vaccines cause autism." It got to the point that my mother, who's been a nurse for over 30 years and has one of the best bullshit detectors I've ever seen got sucked into it, and ended up getting my wife (who's also a nurse) to start relating our son's developmental issues to his vaccinations, his diet, or other "allergies." Thankfully we're mostly done with all this, but I still have to trot out every year and give a verbal smackdown to my wife when she starts bitching about her mandatory flu vaccine and starts going on about our son's vaccinations. The other thing that makes me crazy with my aunt is that they live in NE Ohio Amish country and she's building her practice on alternative medicine for Amish kids with life-threatening issues like cancer. She's involved in the Sarah Hershberger case.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:31
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I doubt there's a serious anti-vaccination contingent among actual doctors, but I've been surprised before. I don't think many doctors buy into anti-vaccine arguments, but with healthcare being increasingly focused on patient satisfaction, you will see less doctors bringing up the topic of vaccination or less forcefully discussing it when they know the parents are against vaccines.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:33
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CommieGIR posted:Ummmm...its not a myth...
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Mar 26, 2014 19:37
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Read his next paragraph.  I'm an idiot.
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Mar 26, 2014 19:40
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:What's the problem with chicken pox vaccine? It's an annoying disease to kids, devastating to adults, and there's no reason to not get the vaccine now that it's available. Sure, it's not deadly but there's no downside, unless you think not getting chicken pox is bad. It's been a long time since I had chicken pox (pre-vaccine), but I remember it sucking pretty badly and I just don't know why we should really protest vaccinating kids against it. Is there some reason you're against the chicken pox vaccine? You should never make absolute statements like the ones I bolded, there are definitely downsides and contra-indications to any medical treatment. As mentioned, you could delay the onset of the disease until it's dangerous to you, or dangerous to a fetus for example. You have to weigh the upsides against the downsides, that's why it's a risk-benefit analysis and not just a benefit analysis. Rhandhali posted:Between 1995 when the vaccine was first licensed and 2011 there were approximately 115 deaths attributed to the vaccine. It's estimated that the number of deaths prevented every year is over 100 with about 10,000 hospitalizations a year prevented. Chickenpox also has a massive economic impact in terms of lost school days and lost work days from parents tending to their children, completely aside from the costs associated with thousands upon thousands of hospital days. I actually did some digging and found a Markov model from 2002 on this, which was eventually backed up with longitudinal studies. quote:Population Decision The specific childhood-vs-adult tradeoff: quote:Population compliance with vaccination. As more individuals opt for vaccination, 2 effects might be observed. First, the varicella attack rate among nonvaccinated children might decrease, as has already been observed elsewhere [67]. Consequently, more nonvaccinated children would reach adulthood without having immunity. Second, the attack rate among nonimmune adults—including those with waning vaccine immunity—might increase. Figure 2 shows that, as vaccination compliance increases from 0% to 97%, the decrease in the number of cases occurring during childhood is much more dramatic than the increase in cases occurring during adulthood. With increasing vaccination compliance in a population, the life expectancy for unvaccinated individuals decreases, because more of these individuals reach adulthood without immunity (figure 3). For vaccinated individuals, however, life expectancy remains fairly constant, because the chief determinants of their life expectancy—vaccine efficacy and the rate of complications due to BV—are independent of population compliance. The difference in life expectancy between vaccinated and nonvaccinated individuals ranges from 9 h (with 25% compliance) to 22 h (with 97% compliance). The key unknown is still infectious shingles carriers. They are essentially giving us all a continuous booster against chicken pox and it's a bit unsure what will happen as they die off. It's possible that the efficacy of the vaccine will decline in their absence and you'll see more/harsher adult cases. But at present it does seem to be a net benefit. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 19:48
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Madmarker posted:It's more than a fashion accessory, there are a lot of true believers. These aren't contradictory statements. Superficial adornments of group alignment are 100% deadly serious to those who sink their identity into that group. You are right in that it is the same mindset that breeds global warming deniers, but they believe because there is clear social value in believing - they think it's true, truly believe deep in their hearts it is true, not because it is likely to be true but because it benefits them to think so. Climate change, antivax, health drinks, homeopathy, it's all the same bullshit.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:10
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Solkanar512 posted:What sort of background and experience do you have in the biological or medical sciences? Someone in my high school science class once tried the "it's not natural" shtick. The teacher then went into a bit of a rant about how absolutely everything on earth is natural, it being a natural byproduct of the world and universe in which we inhabit (we're not shipping in material from alternate realities as far as I'm aware) or nothing is natural since literally none of it came from Earth to begin with, it being produced in giant chemical reactions in the center of stars. He was, and forever will be, my hero.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:20
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CommanderApaul posted:My uncles wife is hardcore into this poo poo, including getting her "Doctor of Naturopathy" from Trinity School of Natural Health. Yes, you are a doctor from an online program that cost you less than $5,000, you "finished a 5-year program in 2 years," and I should listen to you over my GP and my neurologist about my migraines. One of the most frightening things about naturopathy is that there are very active movements, along with other quacks like chiropractors, to use legislative alchemy to be considered primary care providers. Assuming they are successful in turning poo poo into gold insurance companies will be required to cover their services under anti-discrimination clause of section 2706 of the Affordable Care Act. Think about that. A Not-Doctor with a degree bought and paid for from a diploma mill will be reimbursed just like a real doctor would.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:21
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Rhandhali posted:One of the most frightening things about naturopathy is that there are very active movements, along with other quacks like chiropractors, to use legislative alchemy to be considered primary care providers. Assuming they are successful in turning poo poo into gold insurance companies will be required to cover their services under anti-discrimination clause of section 2706 of the Affordable Care Act. All of my insurance options i've had in the past in Seattle have allowed for chiro and naturalopath visits to be covered. It sort of shocked me. My sister also only sees a naturalopath and even pays out of pocket because shes military. Totally blows my mind.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:24
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Tigntink posted:All of my insurance options i've had in the past in Seattle have allowed for chiro and naturalopath visits to be covered. It sort of shocked me. My sister also only sees a naturalopath and even pays out of pocket because shes military. Totally blows my mind. I can't wrap my head around why an insurance company would piss away money paying for services that are of absolutely no material benefit in maintaining health when they're as tightfisted as they are about legitimate medical care. I'm sure there's been some kind of cost-benefit analysis done but I can't see how it would ever come out in the quack's favor.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:30
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Rhandhali posted:I can't wrap my head around why an insurance company would piss away money paying for services that are of absolutely no material benefit in maintaining health when they're as tightfisted as they are about legitimate medical care. I'm sure there's been some kind of cost-benefit analysis done but I can't see how it would ever come out in the quack's favor. Not sure why they could consider it but they are quite tight fisted with it. A bit of warm schadenfreude in my office at the moment is my coworker was getting chiro for pain management and it turns out GHC will allow only 7 and then if no rehabilitation or progress has been made, they will stop paying. Coworker is hilariously bad mouthing the poo poo out of GHC and whining. Jesus christ just pay up the 90$ you rear end in a top hat. (I've had fantastic experiences with GHC and they are SUPER PRO VAXX to the point of shaming my husband into reupping his Tdap)
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Mar 26, 2014 20:48
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Tigntink posted:PRO VAXX Theres no such thing as "pro-vaxx", there are Anti-Vaxxer's and everyone else who still has a goddamn brain left in their skull and aren't going to catch loving polio. edit-Not trying to rip on you there, if it comes off like I am somehow, but the idea of labeling people who accept that vaccines are there own group seems to legitimize Anti-Vaxxer's by making people who support vaccinations seem like just another interest group. edit #2- Tigntink posted:Sorry, I was using it in a joking manner. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 20:51
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Madmarker posted:Theres no such thing as "pro-vaxx", there are Anti-Vaxxer's and everyone else who still has a goddamn brain left in their skull and aren't going to catch loving polio. Sorry, I was using it in a joking manner.
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Mar 26, 2014 20:53
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Cache Cab posted:I understand that some kids might get sick and maybe even die due to a lack of herd immunity, but how many are having mental issues from unregulated substances we're injecting into them? E-Tank posted:Its less that, and more lacking in knowledge of exactly how dangerous diseases are. A mother hears that your child might be turn autistic if you get him vaccinated thinks "Well, if he gets sick I can take him to the doctor and we can get medicine for that sickness. . . but autism has no cure and that's *FOREVER!*" Nessus posted:It would perhaps be more accurate to say that the logic is: "I would rather have a dead child than a child with a mental disability." I can tell you that this sure makes a lot of the adults with autism feel grand about themselves. This right here is why we need to deal with the stigma surrounding mental illness and neuro-developmental disorders. Autism and other mental illnesses aren't the end of the world. There is no shame in being ill, or having someone in your family with an illness. It can be very difficult and scary for the patient and their family, and having had bipolar disorder and being autistic myself, I won't pretend they're easy. But there has been a lot of progress in psychiatric medicine (although I'd be interested to know how many anti-vaxxers don't believe in psychiatry either). Even without pharmaceuticals, lots of useful therapy techniques have been developed like CBT, relaxation therapy and meditation to deal with the stress and fear/rage autistics sometimes get when we're overstimulated or nervous. Yes, there is no cure for autism, but once you know you or your kid has it, there are ways to deal with it. A bunch of autistics in my hometown used to go to a class for learning how to read facial expressions and gestures, and we practised amateur dramatics and public speaking to test it out. Hell, all kids need to be taught social interactions, like table manners, appropriate language and when to say "please" and "thank-you", autistics just pick it up more slowly and don't have any natural instinct to base it off. But we can learn. Now my friends and I are grown up and have had years of practice at putting ourselves in social situations and making ourselves get out and talk to people and join in, most people can't even tell we're autistic. And forcing yourself to stop and think: "How does the person I'm interacting with feel right now? How would I feel if I were them?" isn't a bad habit to get into, autistic or not. An interesting thing about autism - it usually starts to manifest itself at around 12-16 months, which is about the same time kids get the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine, so it's easy to blame the vaccine. But autistic people's brains are a different shape to other people's, and while brains are always developing and re-moulding, a few weeks or months is not nearly long enough for such a huge change to take place. The prevailing theory so far is that it's genetic, which I can well believe: when I was diagnosed the psychiatrist talked with me and my mother for a long time together to take a family history and (with confirmation from other specialists) ended up diagnosing her and most of the family too! I guess we all just thought it was normal to suck at reading people and be really into a favourite hobby. Also, the increase in autism diagnoses is unrelated to the increase in vaccinations. Asperger's Syndrome and other similar conditions are now classed as autistic spectrum disorders, which accounts for some of the increase; more autistic girls are being diagnosed whereas previously they were mis-diagnosed with OCD (and it still tends to take girls longer to be diagnosed than boys); and we have a better understanding and awareness of autism now and can identify it more easily.
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Mar 26, 2014 21:10
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Frankly, whatever sort of mental disease causes people to become anti-vaxxers is at least as frightening to me as autism. If you're an anti-vaxxer, something has gone wrong in your head to make you think that a dead child is better than a not-100%-normal child, and at the same time be completely unable to comprehend how causation works. That's the sort of cognitive impairment I'd be much more worried about, because it doesn't seem nearly as treatable for one thing.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:04
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Almost every single human being out there believes in something really stupid.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:09
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Best Friends posted:Almost every single human being out there believes in something really stupid. Believing in Bigfoot doesn't kill children.
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Mar 26, 2014 22:12
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PT6A posted:Frankly, whatever sort of mental disease causes people to become anti-vaxxers is at least as frightening to me as autism. If you're an anti-vaxxer, something has gone wrong in your head to make you think that a dead child is better than a not-100%-normal child, and at the same time be completely unable to comprehend how causation works. That's the sort of cognitive impairment I'd be much more worried about, because it doesn't seem nearly as treatable for one thing. If anything, by returning to treating children, and the adults they become, purely as objects and creations of the parent, they're returning to time tested, old-fashioned values!
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Mar 26, 2014 22:14
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