The Anti-vaccination movement!

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Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Good news from the Empire State:

NY Times posted:

Judge Upholds Policy Barring Unvaccinated Students During Illnesses

In a case weighing the government�s ability to require vaccination against the individual right to refuse it, a federal judge has upheld a New York City policy that bars unimmunized children from public school when another student has a vaccine-preventable disease.

Citing a 109-year-old Supreme Court ruling that gives states broad power in public health matters, Judge William F. Kuntz II of Federal District Court in Brooklyn ruled against three families who claimed that their right to free exercise of religion was violated when their children were kept from school, sometimes for a month at a time, because of the city�s immunization policies.

The Supreme Court, Judge Kuntz wrote in his ruling, has �strongly suggested that religious objectors are not constitutionally exempt from vaccinations.�

The lawyer for the plaintiffs, Patricia Finn, said she plans to appeal the decision, announced this month. On Thursday, Ms. Finn asked the district court to rehear the case.

Amid concerns by public health officials that some diseases are experiencing a resurgence in areas with low vaccination rates, the decision reinforces efforts by the city to balance a strict vaccine mandate with limited exemptions for objectors. Pockets of vaccination refusal persist in the city, despite high levels of vaccination overall.

State law requires children to receive vaccinations before attending school, unless a parent can show religious reservations or a doctor can attest that vaccines will harm the child. Under state law, parents claiming religious exemptions do not have to prove their faith opposes vaccines, but they must provide a written explanation of a �genuine and sincere� religious objection, which school officials can accept or reject.

Some states also let parents claim a philosophical exemption, though New York does not. Some parents refuse to have their children vaccinated because of a belief that vaccines can cause autism, though no link has ever been proved.

Two of the families in the lawsuit who had received religious exemptions challenged the city�s policy on barring their children, saying it amounted to a violation of their First Amendment right to religious freedom and their 14th Amendment right to equal protection under the law, among other claims. Their children had been kept from school when other students had chickenpox, their suit said.

The third plaintiff, Dina Check, sued on somewhat different grounds, saying that the city had improperly denied her 7-year-old daughter a religious exemption. She said the city rejected her religious exemption after it had denied her a medical exemption, sowing doubts among administrators about the authenticity of her religious opposition. But Ms. Check said the request for a medical exemption had been mistakenly submitted by a school nurse without her consent.

After the school barred her daughter, Ms. Check home-schooled her and then moved her to a private school that accepted her daughter without the vaccinations. State vaccination requirements cover public and private schools, but in New York City, private schools have more autonomy in handling exemptions.

Ms. Check said she rejected vaccination after her daughter was �intoxicated� by a few shots during infancy, which she said caused an onslaught of food and milk allergies, rashes and infections. Combined with a religious revelation she had during the difficult pregnancy, she said, the experience turned her away from medicine. Now she uses holistic treatments.

�Disease is pestilence,� Ms. Check said, �and pestilence is from the devil. The devil is germs and disease, which is cancer and any of those things that can take you down. But if you trust in the Lord, these things cannot come near you.�

In turning down all three families, Judge Kuntz cited a 1905 Supreme Court ruling that upheld a $5 fine for a Massachusetts man who disobeyed an order to be vaccinated during a smallpox outbreak, a case that helped establish the government�s right to require immunizations as a matter of public health.

Ms. Finn, the families� lawyer, said that case should not be relevant. �There�s no way that court anticipated that children would be subjected� to the vaccines they must get today, she said.

In New York, the statewide mean religious exemption rate rose over the last decade, from .23 percent in 2000 to .45 percent in 2011, a 2013 study in the medical journal Pediatrics said.

New York City schools granted 3,535 religious exemptions in 2012-13, according to data from the state�s Health Department. Though city schools, public and private, have an overall immunization rate around 97 percent, according to the department, 37 private schools were below 70 percent. Health experts believe that above a certain immunization rate, outbreaks are limited because a disease cannot spread to enough people during its incubation period to sustain itself, a phenomenon known as �herd immunity.� For measles, which is highly contagious, that rate is believed to be 95 percent, according to Daniel Salmon, deputy director at the Institute for Vaccine Safety at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

Though widespread vaccinations have practically eliminated diseases like measles and mumps from the United States, flare-ups have occurred. The 477 measles cases reported this year represent the worst year-to-date count since 1994, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Among the 25 people who contracted measles in New York City between February and April this year, two were school-age children unvaccinated because of parental refusal. When one of the children, who was being home-schooled, contracted the measles, city health officials barred that child�s sibling, who had a religious exemption, from attending school. The sibling eventually contracted measles as well. Health officials credited the decision to keep the second child out of school with stopping the spread of disease in that community.

Ohio, which granted more than three times as many religious and philosophical exemptions to kindergarten students last year as it did in 2000, is struggling to contain a measles outbreak that has recently spread to 339 Amish people who were largely unvaccinated, the state health department said.

Mr. Salmon said it can be difficult for states to balance an obligation to mandate vaccination with some leniency for families who have strong objections. Rules that force parents to articulate their beliefs and require public officials to educate them about the risks of exemption are states� best defense against the spread of disease, he said.

Still, especially because parents who refuse vaccination tend to cluster geographically, it takes only a few unvaccinated children to start an outbreak, he said. At that point, even vaccinated children are at risk.

�Diseases have a way of finding our vulnerabilities,� Mr. Salmon said, �the kinks in our armor.�

# ¿ Jun 26, 2014 17:34

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# ¿ May 20, 2024 21:53

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

harper is bisexual posted:

I feel like the anti-anti-vaccination hysteria is probably somewhere between shark attacks and crack babies as the new mostly harmless thing to whip up smug anger about. A bunch of people can vent at some confused mothers while the country is looted and flying robots kill people overseas.

Yeah. I absolutely positively have so much of my attention caught up with this, that I am incapable of doing anything else. :rolleyes:

Calling it "vent[ing] and some confused mothers" glosses over the health concerns and the dire public health consequences. I had a lot of people in my family who had to deal with these childhood illnesses (including my mother who was temporarily paralyzed by polio as a kid), so it's personally important to me, and this is a cause of concern in the third world as well, so it goes well beyond the US or even my own family history.

However, if you feel it is not important enough, stick to the Middle East Politics thread or something; see nobody's forcing you to be exposed to a dangerous thread without access to the vaccine of not clicking on this thread.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2014 03:36

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

E-Tank posted:

Autism Speaks is responsible for the atrocity known as �I am Autism�, a short film produced by the Academy Award Winning Alfonso Cuaron, who also directed the 3rd Harry Potter movie (yes, really) and features an ominous voice saying things like �I am autism�I know where you live�I work faster than pediatric AIDS, cancer, and diabetes combined�I will make sure your marriage fails.�

I am Autism, in turn, is (according to Wikipedia) patterned after Taming the Crippler, a movie dedicated to the horrible disease known as... poliomyelitis, and the vaccine which finally made it possible to fight it. :ironicat:

Here's an earlier radio show featuring the same idea of poliomyelitis as The Crippler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgJjmrkKlm4

# ¿ Jun 28, 2014 06:33

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

SedanChair posted:

I don't know, this sounds like the start of an interesting thread. What is the line between reproductive choice and eugenics?

Parents are given information and choices, rather than the government mandating who can breed with whom?

# ¿ Jun 28, 2014 12:59

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Ogmius815 posted:

The idea that a smallpox outbreak in a poor country would result in immediate international action is also totally hilarious. Because every time there's a human crisis in a foreign country there's the U.S. with unlimited and totally efficacious interventions am I right guys?

Ogmius815 posted:

The U.S. can't stop Syria from gassing its own people but BOY HEY if a major power ever decided to use a bio-weapon here comes the world police!

People seem to be taking the recent Ebola outbreak in West Africa very seriously, yes.

ETA:

E-Tank posted:

This has gotten to be a big derail and if we really want to discuss this we should probably make another thread about it.

Woops!

# ¿ Jul 9, 2014 04:34

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Ogmius815 posted:

ITT I argue with ~~Victor Frankenstein~~Weyland-Yutani.

If you're going to do sci-fi horror comparisons, better go whole hog.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 02:12

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Buried alive posted:

So I came across a comment the other day that most of the people who get measles are the ones who get vaccinated against it. Is there any source for this?

I've got their source right here: :butt:

I don't see it in the CDC's page on it, and they list some serious side-effects.

The only way in which this could potentially be true is if this person means that most of the people who got the measles from the latest infection were vaccinated, which makes sense, since the vast majority of people got MMR, and it does have a non-zero failure rate.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 04:57

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Ogmius815 posted:

Doot doot doooooot dooot dooot dooot dooot

Spock...?

As suspected, the probe's transmissions are the songs sung by viruses.

Viruses?

Specifically the Variola Virus

That's crazy Spock! Who would send a probe hundreds of light years to talk to a virus?

It's possible viruses were on earth far earlier than man. Viruses were heavily hunted by man. Variola has been extinct since the 21st century. Thanks, no doubt, to mouthbreathers who don't know science. It is possible that an alien intelligence sent the probes to find out why they lost contact.

My god...

Spock...Start your computations for time warp!

Oh, man, now you got me rooting for Smallpox.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 02:20

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Tigntink posted:

Given your situation I actually do understand and that you tried to do it safely. I definitely know what it's like to feel like regular medical science has failed to figure out what the gently caress is going on and looking to more granola poo poo. I've had stabbing pain in my lower right abdomen for almost a year. I've been to a gyno, my GP, a regular ER doctor - i've had ultrasounds and CTs. I tried different pain killers. My GP and I chalked it up to maybe ovarian cysts for about 6 months until I went to the ER after I was in so much pain I couldn't talk and they did the CT and showed nothing. Ovaries looked perfect. Back to square one.

I'm currently doing an elimination diet - why the gently caress not I guess? Can't be any worse than I am now.

It's stupid and simple but a few weeks into it and it looks like I developed lactose intolerance.

I thought an elimination diet was standard procedure for detecting food intolerance. :confused:

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 22:06

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

E-Tank posted:

He literally believes that if you cannot, right now, tell you what you're going to learn from something, and how that'll benefit mankind right the gently caress now, you should not do research.

Ogmius, are you in Congress?! :aaaaa:

# ¿ Jul 13, 2014 05:00

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

SedanChair posted:

Ogmius you're literally a court fop in the time before circumnavigation.

"Ahahaha should not my lord be expected to prove that there shall be some reward, such to balance against the terrible dangers of serpents which goe beneath the waves, and of the end of the seas, which border the land and are flat like a table?"

SedanChair posted:

"Wee shall surely anger these serpents, who may not stop at destroying my lord's own ships for the crime of hubris, but may follow the trail of seaborne debris back to our very shores, and clime onto the beaches spitting fyre." *poops into a bowl*

SedanChair, proven colonialism apologist.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2014 05:12

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Cercadelmar posted:

What's fun about that article to me is how much credibility antivaxxers have lost in light of the recent measles outbreaks. The whole ideology is getting pushed out into the fringes where it belongs.

Until there arises up a new generation over America, who will not have known Measles, and so will think that Vaccines are Not Necessary and also cause Leprosy or something, Despite the best Evidence. Selah.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 03:54

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

VitalSigns posted:

Now I finally understand why God kept asking Moses to let Him kill all the Israelites every time He dazzled them with a miracle to save their asses and two hours later they'd forgotten all about it and were worshiping random animals or whatever.

They sure are a stiff-necked people. But I'm sure a trip to the chiropractor can fix that! :haw:

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 04:45

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

SinetheGuy posted:

Having looked into it a little further, it turns out she works at a chiropractic clinic. So on the one hand, while her anti-vaxx stance is probably uncontroversial there, at least she (presumably) isn't directly working with infirm patients.

Stealth edit:
Wonderful. It's pediatric chiropractic.

She'll adjust the measles right out of'em! :pseudo:

# ¿ Jul 15, 2014 22:28

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

QuarkJets posted:

But that is what they're going to do. You're convincing a dumb person to give you money for a magic wand (which is already pretty terrible) and then they're going to use this product to cure themselves of... whatever happens to ail them.

If you have any conscience, you are eventually going to end up like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tunFKD-Xfpo&t=836s

# ¿ Jul 16, 2014 03:22

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Aside from the immediate tragedy, I wonder what this will do to other vaccination drives in developing countries; it's not like there's a dearth of mistrust of Western doctors already.

---

Measles vaccination mix-up leaves 15 infants dead in northern Syria

Muscle relaxant given to up to 75 children in an error perhaps caused by the similarities of drug packaging

Medics carrying out a measles vaccination in northern Syria instead administered an anaesthetic to up to 75 infants, killing 15, a preliminary investigation into their deaths has found.

The report says an anaesthetic, atracuriam, which is used as a muscle relaxant in surgery was given to the infants, perhaps mixed with the measles vaccine, which had been delivered by aid agencies conducting a mass vaccination program in opposition parts of northern Syria.

The error is believed to have occurred because the packaging of the anaesthetic drug was similar to that of the solution used to mix the measles vaccination.

The drug is usually fatal when given to infants in the doses administered, but older children can survive low dosages due to their higher body weights. The fatalities occurred in children between 6 and 18 months.

The children all presented symptoms within half an hour of being given the drug and were suffering from diarrhoea, shock and respiratory failure. Most of the fatalities were dead before they reached a hospital, according to a local activist.

Syrian opposition officials have ordered an urgent probe into the deaths and the health minister in the interim administration resigned on Wednesday. Earlier reports had suggested the toll may have been as high as 34 and that deliberate attempts may have been made to poison the children.

However inquiries are now focusing on clinical negligence and have vowed to prosecute anyone found responsible.

Save the Children, which provides medical aid to northern Syria, but was not involved in administering the vaccine said: "Save the Children is appalled and deeply saddened by the news of the deaths of a number of children and the hospitalisation of many more after receiving vaccinations for measles in northern Syria. Save the Children will help the authorities in any way we can to help find out what has happened."

International aid agencies have greatly restricted access to northern Syria and have been struggling to deal with massive humanitarian needs caused by a civil war that has led to close to half of Syria's population being displaced. The state-run medical system has all but collapsed in much of the country and people in opposition areas have no access to it.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2014 00:22

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Ran into the following OP about non-autism-delusion skepticism of vaccines.

quote:

If the pro-vaccine advocates want to get anywhere they need to stop wrestling with the few they will never convince, and instead speak to everyone else: cut the attitude, take the concerns seriously enough to know what they actually are, and present clear arguments on the state of the underlying science addressing those concerns.

Sounds reasonable. But then the next paragraph is:

quote:

Take Dr. Sears, who by actually taking concerns about aluminum concentrations seriously and proposing an alternative schedule that addresses it, has probably prevented 100 times more vaccine opt-outs than all the self-righteous shaming screeds on the Internet combined.

So I of course google Dr. Sears, to find that he is more like Dr. Oz than a real doctor, and his new schedule is dangerous bullshit based upon a complete lack of understanding of vaccines or the diseases from which they defend. :pseudo:

# ¿ Oct 9, 2014 19:47

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

torpedan posted:

Much like any argument on the internet, I am fairy sure that if you stop and look you will find pro-vaccine groups that cover the whole spectrum of sane to crazy. That said, getting people to vaccinate thier kids is essentially a
public relations war and the pro-vax side dropped the ball pretty hard more than once (the handling of the removal of mercury from most vaccines is a good example of it).

Dr. Sears however, managed to push out a vaccine schedule that is essentially a truth is in the middle fallacy. Although I am sure it is correct to say that it may have helped to lead to many people to vaccinate their children, Following his schedule basically ignores all the research showing that the actual recommended schedule is safe.

Well, this particular OP I did not run into on the internet, but in our local "alternative" weekly. So it's a bit more than "oh, the interwebs is full of crazy".

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 00:02

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

QuarkJets posted:

I shudder to think about what a biology student who is anti-vaccine (or anti-GMO) has to say about nuclear energy

Clearly the all-healing power of gamma rays is all we need to fight the blight of disease.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2014 21:14

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

G1mby posted:

The cleansing caress of neutron radiation washes away all disease. Also all other life.

Life is dirty. The universe must be cleansed from it using healthy radiation.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2014 22:44

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

SinetheGuy posted:

If she's withholding antibiotics, that's straight up criminal neglect. And if he isn't medicating her out of fear of antagonizing her, he's an accomplice. He needs to get that child the medicine he needs, gently caress whatever his wife thinks. That's priority #1 with a bullet.

I agree. And going back, he is one of their parents, so he gets to go to the doctor to get them vaccinated. It may lead to a divorce, but kids are paramount.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2014 16:43

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

I think people come to their senses after the first child or two die of preventable causes. Unfortunately it seems that there is nothing less that will really work on crazy. :smith:

# ¿ Nov 8, 2014 20:12

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

ActusRhesus posted:

If there was truly an outbreak, it might change the "significant risk" analysis for purposes of a "were you negligent to your own child" if *your child* got sick, but generally a parent doesn't have a legal duty to protect other people's kids.

If I were at public pool (not as a lifeguard) and I saw a kid drowning, and I am a certified advanced open water diver (which it just so happens that I am. brag.) I would be a real shithead not to dive in and save them, but legally I'm not obligated to.

On the other hand, at least in Israeli law, if you are at the scene of a car accident, you are obligated to help. What kind of risk is a doctor taking upon themselves when administering a vaccine?

# ¿ Jan 8, 2015 20:05

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

DJ BK posted:

What about the claim that the child has a genetic "disorder" that the vaccines are likely to antagonize and make the kid autistic? They pointed to an NIH study derka derka, crazy people right?

Since dead kids can't develop autism, I guess that problem is solved. ^v :smith:

# ¿ Jul 2, 2015 01:16

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Anti-vaccine course brings U of T one step closer to offering a masters of pseudoscience

�We will delve into quantum physics� understanding of disease and alternative medicine to provide a scientific hypothesis of how these modalities may work�� Ms. Landau-Halpern promised those considering registering for her course, Alternative Health: Practice and Theory.

That sentence, which has given actual quantum physicists the vapours, is the academic equivalent of reversing the polarity of the neutron flow to stabilize the fluctuations in the temporal rift. It�s the kind of babble that saves fictional spacecraft and kills real babies.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2015 03:29

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

PT6A posted:

I'm not sure exactly what angle it's being taught from, but from skimming the article it seems like it might be taught from the point of view of teaching medical students how to sniff out and counter bizarre, pseudoscientific bullshit. Regardless of this specific course or program, I'm starting to think teaching doctors how to identify and counter nonsensical bullshit is actually quite important. They should be exposed to all the batshit-crazy theories, and prove that they know why they're wrong, and also should be instructed in the best techniques to convince their patients that it's nonsense. Inasmuch as the amount of disinformation regarding "alternative medicine", vaccines, etc. is becoming a public health issue (and it is), I think it's important that doctors be taught how to deal with it in an appropriate fashion.

I don't know how you got that from the article. Goel assumes that since the students get a lot of actual science background beforehand, they should easily themselves be able to take it critically. There is nothing there to suggest that the curriculum is any more than a pile of pseudoscience and rubbish. You should see how the anti-vaxxers look at it.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2015 05:08

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

This slap-fight has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It's had a nice, long run, no need to start having to probate people.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2015 21:18

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

So let me get this straight: there is Federal oversight on the vitamin content of food, but not of supplements? So I can trust the Vitamin C content of orange juice more than of a pill coming from a container that literally says "Vitamin C" on it?

# ¿ Aug 22, 2015 05:28

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Dr. Tenpenny joins Red Ice Radio to talk about her important research related to problems with vaccines and the work she is doing to speak out against these damaging inoculations. Dr. Sherri covers the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention�s (CDC) faulty science and the vaccine industry�s incorrect premises � outlining some not-so-secret studies that clearly show people should be less alarmed about contracting viruses and more concerned with being poisoned by toxic chemicals coming through the needle.

"Liked" by a friend on facebook. Other than anti-vaxx, her symptoms include GMphobia and Organophilia.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2015 14:32

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

An anti-vaxxer now former Facebook friend provided this paper as evidence for the danger of vaccines.

quote:

BACKGROUND: Vaccines are among the safest medical products in use today. Hundreds of millions of vaccinations are administered in the United States each year. Serious adverse reactions are uncommon...

...

CONCLUSION: No concerning pattern was noted among death reports submitted to VAERS during 1997-2013. The main causes of death were consistent with the most common causes of death in the US population.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2015 09:34

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

King Dopplepopolos posted:

Does your friend not know what it says, or are they just twisting its conclusion?

The sentence "[f]or child death reports, 79.4% received >1 vaccine on the same day" is evidence of the incredible danger of giving multiple vaccines or something, apparently.

Anyway, this whole discussion was on the wall of a public figure who was railing against crazy anti-vaxxers, so it's since been deleted.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2015 17:20

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Discendo Vox posted:

my bad-you're not missing much unless you like feeling embarrassed that someone is getting to publish elementary school-level arguments in Pediatrics.

To be fair, they're simply adapting themselves to their audience. :v:

# ¿ Mar 19, 2016 05:39

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

CommieGIR posted:

Thankfully they just announced it will not be screened at Tribeca

The medicinal-industrial complex wins again. :smith:

# ¿ Mar 27, 2016 05:13

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Good news, everyone! 40 Harvard students have been diagnozed with Mumps, and all of them have been previously vaccinated!

# ¿ Apr 29, 2016 01:21

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

To reiterate, all those diagnosed were vaccinated. So it's either a matter of the lowering efficacy of the vaccine with time not being properly taken into account, or there really has been some kind of Merck cover-up.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2016 02:33

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# ¿ May 20, 2024 21:53

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Vaccine you are family

# ¿ Aug 7, 2016 21:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Anti-vaccination movement!