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In the Q+A I saw after the movie, Evans mentioned that he wrote this movie first but he couldn't get it to work because he couldn't really get the motivations right. He thought Rama being an undercover cop fixed that but in the end I think it just feels like Rama is shoved into a script where he's a secondary character unimportant character that then kicks everyone's rear end at the end. He isn't really important to the lots of plot that keep building until the end where hejust sort of decides to end the movie. It feels like the script was written without him and he was just put in to wrap everything up and that fits because that seems to be what actually happened.
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Apr 6, 2014 18:40
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A group of people were handing out "Limited Edition" Barandal trading cards in Chinatown today.
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Apr 6, 2014 20:56
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bullet3 posted:Also, I didn't like this as much as I hoped. quote:The undercover cop storyline ends up being a complete waste of time that goes nowhere, so why waste our time for an hour if that's what you're going to do with it?
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Apr 7, 2014 01:49
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Weren't the corrupt police officers the ones behind the events? I don't remember the name the head bad guy mentioned in Raid 1 mentioned that made Rama's chief go white but I assumed it was other officers or something. Could be misremembering or just making assumptions.
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Apr 7, 2014 04:35
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That was surprisingly dull and flabby considering how great The Raid was. Felt like a classic case of sequel bloat.
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Apr 8, 2014 22:10
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I have to agree that this is a very different film from the Raid, which was much much more short, sharp and brutal. This film is more involved with plot and acting - not exactly the things action films are well known for. I would say in fact that this film is almost trying to NOT be an action film; I remember Evans saying that he had the basic plotline for this film in his head before the Raid - and it shows. Does this make it a bad film? Only if you were wanting something exactly like the Raid except bigger. I liked it myself. It's not without faults. 'Koso's (not-Mad-Dog) story could well be cut out without losing much from the plot, esp. as it was pretty unsubtle and I would also argue the fight in the nightclub the worst of all the fight scenes; far too shaky a camera. But as has been pointed out earlier, his story does parallel the whole 'a bad person doing a good thing/a good person doing a bad thing'. I would also say that Bejo seems a bit too... unworldly to be in a gangster film. For some reason I kinda got a 'devil' feel from him, i.e. a person that fragile in a place of power you wouldn't expect, offering a Faustian agreement, the fact that his end matches how he is introduced in the film (re. shotgun blasts to the head)... but then again, that does help add a bit of surrealness that is conveyed with a lot of the camera work and settings, e.g. the spontaneous snow at 'Koso's death and the way the blood fills the footstep; the way sound drifts in and out of focus, the use of colour in different settings for each character, but at the same time said colour is muted. Even during the fishing scene when it's outside during a cloudless sky, the scale of the colours are much more subdued than you would expect... It almost gives the film a vaguely nightmareish feel to it, which contrasts with the content of the plot. However, it does have ambitions, and it does realize a lot of them. There's plenty of great acting in the film, esp. from Iko Uwais, but also from Arifin Putra and Tio Pakusadewo. The camera team did on the whole fantastic work with long shots and action shots. The fight scenes, while not as quickly packed as the first film, are just as brutal, sharp and bloody as the first film. Translation work on the whole was very good; there weren't any idioms or phrases that read unnatural. The makers of this film are trying different stuff from the first film, and while it ain't perfect, I think they did a drat good job. I'd recommend it.
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Apr 11, 2014 17:39
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I'm not great at in-depth analysis of symbols and other stuff in films, but I thought this was a good fun movie. I still think the first one was better though. Way too much plot in this film when it was the weakest part of the first one. I do think that the set pieces were better than the first though. Not as cohesive to the story, but better individually. I hope it doesn't make me a sociopath, but I couldn't stop smiling at how absurd and well choreographed the fight scenes were. Did anyone remember Mad Dog's fight in the bar? Because if I'm remembering correctly I thought I saw a callback to his death in the first film when he drags a chair leg through someone's neck
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Apr 12, 2014 02:28
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Saw it last night. I was totally ok with the whole double cross, gangster politics story going on in the background of the movie, I found it easy to follow, but to be honest I was more thankful for the breather in between the really intense fights. So many of them had so much going for them, location, colours, emotion, it even managed to avoid doing the whole Boba Fett thing and let us see Hammer Girl, Baseballbat guy and not Mad Dog do their thing before they had to fight Rama or that other guy. That last fight really reminded me of watching a great wrestling match, where it starts off and then ten minutes later you think "Oh wow these guys are still going pretty strong...Oh wow they are still fighting....They're still fighting! Holy poo poo I can't believe they are still fighting!!" It reminded me a lot of the fight with Mad Dog from the first movie.
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Apr 12, 2014 15:12
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Why does it have to be snow? Indonesia has a lot of volcanoes so it could be volcanic ash. Wasn't there an "eruption" of violence? I saw it at a screening that was late in the day so it didn't finish until after 11.30pm. The sound that mostly came out of people's mouths was wincing. Having watched the Act of Killing I don't know if I was more affected by the violence in the movie now. That documentary shows what happens when you actually kill that many people. It also shows how open corruption is in Indonesia and they do not try to hide it. Not sure what they can do to top the action in the next movie. Also this was the movie I was most looking forward to this year. Marvel comic adaptations? Meh. Ong Bak was the closing night film for the Melbourne International Film Festival in 2004, the director of Old Boy came out to do a Q&A. Election was the closing night film for the next year. Was hardly any Asian movies in recent years at least that I watched. I remember there being a lot of talk about Thai action movies, but nothing really happened with it. Even the Korean new wave seems to have receded somewhat although they are still producing quality action like the Chaser and the Yellow Sea.
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Apr 12, 2014 16:44
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Jesus Christ, goons. e: This film was not like the previous one, ergo it is worse (for attempting to have a plot? more than three characters?). double e: I got back thinking if there were any other action/crime movies that were just as gory and had as high a body count out there. Then I realized, yes, yes there is: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094357/ It makes me appreciate how Evans is probably influenced just as much by the dynamism and cartoon violence of Woo just as much as he is by the stark and sudden violence of Kitano.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:04
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bullet3 posted:Question for those who've seen it Pretty sure it's intended to be silent there. Rama is battered and exhausted. We don't need to know the details of that conversation except that he's done. Bit on the long side and the plot/character motivations got a bit convoluted. These are just secondary points though - the fights consistently delivered. Particularly during the HG/BBM fight and the kitchen fight the audience seemed to be collectively holding their breath.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:10
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SaviourX posted:Jesus Christ, goons. My problem wasn't that is attempted to have plot and characters, my problem was that the plot and characters were uninteresting at best and dull at worst. Having a bad plot made it bad, not that it wasn't like the previous movie. To me the plot is just sort of there. No part of it was a story that I cared about for even a second, nor did it manage to enhance the action. In theory spending this much time on plot should make the action scenes better because I care about the characters and if they survive or maybe hate the villains and want them to fail but the movie didn't really manage to do that. It just takes a really long time to get from basic plot point to basic plot point, doing about as little to create characters as the first film did. We arguably learn less about Rama, the supposed protagonist, in this film than the last one, and the last one didn't even try. To the movie's credit, the action scenes do almost make up for the rest of it, but sometimes it's such a slog to get there that it took me a moment to get back into the movie and enjoy the awesome action. I still kind of liked the film because the action was so good but I'm also not really rushing to see it again, nor am I really trying to get others to see it.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:57
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I liked this movie, but the first one was better. The best parts of the movie were the parts closest to the first one. The Mad Dog scenes and Hammer Girl were more compelling than any of the actual plot. I was confused by the significance of the tattoo on the henchman and then on Bejo. Why did this turn the mobster's son against them?
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Apr 13, 2014 02:00
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Saw this earlier today and I was thoroughly impressed. axleblaze, you had me worried based on your complaints about the pacing, but I didn't feel the pacing was an issue at all. I mean yeah, there wasn't a fight scene present during every single minute of the movie, and there was definitely plot and character development galore outside of the fight scenes, but I felt that that contributed to the world the movie took place in. I thought all the scenes that weren't fight scenes were entertaining as hell and well shot and only added to the experience. And the fight scenes were some of the best you'll see in any movie in years. Some of them are even better than some of the ones in the first Raid. At certain points, the violence gets so brutal that it's ridiculous and almost comical, and I enjoyed that. I lost track of the number of times I uttered "Jesus Christ!" and "holy gently caress!" under my breath, and others around me in my theater were doing the same. So what if we don't have a deep, thoroughly developed backstory about Baseball Bat Man? We know he's one of Bejo's goons and that he kills his enemies by tossing a baseball in the air and striking it with a bat with intense force and hitting them in the face with it, and that's loving hilarious. He's just a goon and the plot doesn't depend on him except for him beating up on Rama/Yuda to stop him from getting to Bejo and Uco, so why do we need to know more about him? I felt like the plot developed in all the areas it really needed to and left all the rest out, which was totally cool with me. Hammer Girl's scenes, especially on the subway, rivaled the hammer scenes from the original Oldboy. And when Rama was fighting that dude in the restaurant and pressed his head against a heated iron cooktop...that was insane. That and other parts of the movie made it feel like a movie version of Sleeping Dogs with all the melee environmental attacks. I really appreciated the use of Nine Inch Nails' Ghosts 13 as the soundtrack to the final couple minutes of the film, as that's one of my favorite instrumentals of theirs and I've never heard it used in a movie before. It was used very effectively here. I can't wait to buy this on Blu-Ray when it comes out so I can see how some of the insane shots in this movie were achieved, like when Rama/Yuda is fighting 4 goons at once inside a moving SUV on the freeway, including the driver, and the whole fight is shown from the roof of the vehicle. Still can't decide if I liked it even more than the first one, but it was definitely at least on par with the first one in terms of quality. Gotta say, even at 2.5 hours, it never felt overlong to me. I was never bored by it. Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 04:05
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I was really jonesing for this one after reading some of the impressions in this thread, only to find out Canada got a limited release to coincide with the US's wide one, and it's not even playing in my province.  Do any fellow Canadians know anything about plans for a wide release at a later date, or am I really just screwed on this particular sit? Traipsing around Google isn't bringing up any definitive information or even any real discussion of the fact that its release was limited in the first place, possibly because not enough people care about The Raid 2 (I do not understand these people). I don't have any go-tos for this kind of thing because typically it's not a problem. Our two local theaters are ordinarily pretty good about carrying limited releases, even the really obscure ones. But this time it seems we missed the boat.
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Apr 13, 2014 05:28
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Snowman_MK and Jonny Angel, your posts in this thread kick rear end. I love your point about how the film has a kind of economy to it despite its run time - it's sprawling but not bloated. I loved this movie. More than the first Raid, which I respected and liked but never found very involving for whatever reason.
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Apr 13, 2014 16:02
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DNS posted:Snowman_MK and Jonny Angel, your posts in this thread kick rear end. I love your point about how the film has a kind of economy to it despite its run time - it's sprawling but not bloated. I think the film is absolutely bloated. The Mad Dog sequences should have been left on the cutting room floor and it'd have been smarter to cut down the prison stuff and start the film with Rama beginning to infiltrate the gang. Go from there rather than waffling around with pointless set up.
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Apr 13, 2014 17:28
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SaviourX posted:Jesus Christ, goons. Man, I love this film to death, but I really don't think you're giving enough credit to the folks who disagree with that view. This thread really does not need this kind of sentiment. So I was watching an interview with Gareth Evans and he says that The Raid 3 will start off 2 hours before the end of The Raid 2. He mentions a moment near the end of this film that creates a significant branching-off, and we're going to follow the other path. Any ideas what he's talking about here? Focusing on what the Gotos are up to, maybe? Also, quick question for those who know more about Indonesia than me. My understanding is that Rama, Eka, Uco, Bangun, these are all given names, and that the only surnames we've been given in the series are Goto and Riyadi (Tama from the first film). First off, is this a correct assumption? Second off, does this make sense as far as how people address each other in Indonesia, or is it about as goofy as an American version where Bunaware says "Alright Rama, we're going after the local kingpin, Rick."
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Apr 13, 2014 18:26
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The thing that I liked most about The Raid was that it was a martial arts movie that was shot like a horror movie, and The Raid 2 followed in that tradition. Even if the sequel was "different" from the first, it still subverts a lot of your typical martial arts movie cliches (not all of them, there's still the Relentless March To The Big Bad Guy With A Fight Facing A Lot Of Bad Guys Then A Fight Facing A Really Tough Bad Guy and so on) and still has some really fantastic camera work and, well, downright pretty shots. Just my two cents. edit: Just wanted to add that the opening shot of the movie is a great loving example. You see this gorgeous countryside, with these little puffs of dust showing you that something's coming. You follow them, and two SUVs round a corner. You track their path and notice...that there's a guy digging a grave. Right there. He's been on screen the whole time, and you never noticed him. You know exactly what's happening right then and there. You know what's coming. That shot never moves, and there's a story told in it with no dialogue, all in the first 15 seconds. That was just really cool to open a loving martial arts flick with. Emron fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 23:33
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Just saw the movie. Hands down one of the best movies I have ever seen. That last 40 minutes was perfection.
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Apr 14, 2014 00:20
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Jonny Angel posted:Man, I love this film to death, but I really don't think you're giving enough credit to the folks who disagree with that view. This thread really does not need this kind of sentiment. I hope the next film starts with Eka walking away from his awesome chase to start a new life as the Transporter. Seriously Rama has martial arts skills but Eka did some crazy poo poo in that chase.
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Apr 14, 2014 00:54
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Had a few hours to digest the movie after seeing it earlier this afternoon and holy poo poo it feels like they really amped it up with the fight choreography and the usage of space during the fights. Some of those shots were just awesome. I came away pretty pleased with it! Made me want to play through Sleeping Dogs again, too. e: Something else I enjoyed a little is Rama's undercover name was Yuda, which was his name in Merantau, which is also pretty good. dreffen fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 01:58
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Does anyone know what the song is that Rama blasts in his apartment while he is switching out SIM cards? It doesn't seem to be listed in any of the soundtrack lists I've found.
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Apr 14, 2014 02:01
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I enjoyed the movie but I think the violence can get its own discussion. It reminded me of Saving Private Ryan as this real, visceral "fighting for your life" thing for the latter part of the movie starting at Mad Dog's portion even though it's elaborately choreographed. The early prison yard fight felt over the top gruesome as if it didn't need to be. The skill and ability is incredible and I swear to God it's like everyone got legit hurt and I'm sure they did. There should be some kind of Oscar or Annual Recognition for the stunt people and actors in these movies. Hammer Girl loving ruled and I really wish she didn't bite it. Her make up and aura seemed like it could have been a sub movie of its own, she had a lot of character as well as the relation to Bat Man. My favorite part of the movie though is the little side story with Mad Dog. I loving loved that scene in the restaurant. That he's given his life to this, as if he's a homeless beggar who is also a hit man, yet the money he makes for his services keeps his amazingly beautiful and maintained wife and child kept so well. That he's so submissive to her is such a beautiful touch considering how lethal he is. The restaurant scene, imo, ruled over the rest of the movie. The club scene afterwards was good too but for the fact that his comment of "control" as separating the son from the father is exactly what I thought too earlier. It's like, jeez, things I thought and felt I was in their heads as if I could relate or understand. I'm glad "Mad Dog's" actor was in this and got something. He's a pretty good actor too. I hope they get some decent meaty roles or I can see them in other things outside of martial arts movies.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:16
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I think the film is absolutely bloated. The Mad Dog sequences should have been left on the cutting room floor and it'd have been smarter to cut down the prison stuff and start the film with Rama beginning to infiltrate the gang. Go from there rather than waffling around with pointless set up. The Mad Dog story is the best thing about the movie. That should have been a movie of its own, frankly, and as entertaining as this one is, I'd rather have seen that. It was well acted and compelling.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:23
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This goddamn movie, HOLY poo poo. I was blown away by this film. I loved Raid:Redemption, so I was high hopes for this film, and it did not disappoint. I am in complete disagreement with those who felt the film was bloated; it was a lengthy film but the plethora of (brutal) fight scenes and the interaction between the characters held the film together. The cinematography in this film was amazing, holy poo poo. The mud pit, introduction of Hammer Girl and Bat Boy, the amazing car chase, everything was shot beautifully. Seriously, I was watching in awe of the prison mud pit scene, and I still had the rest of the film to watch. I usually hate when people watching the film are loud or verbally reactive but I was totally get into it along with everyone else in the film. You couldn't help but yell out when you see Rama snap a guy's leg or fry another's face on a fryer because the camera didn't turn away, the film pointed out everything.
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Apr 14, 2014 05:25
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Can't remember the last time I enjoyed an action movie this much. Definitely liked it more than the first one, the fight scenes actually had me cringing in my seat at certain parts. Wish we got more back story on certain characters, but goddamn. What a crazy movie. Mad Dog needs his own movie. That little guy is terrifying.
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Apr 14, 2014 08:13
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I really enjoyed this movie, but I wish they had trimmed it down a little, it just felt a little longer then it needed to be.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:59
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I caught this yesterday with my friend and really liked it. I thought the plot was actually handled really well, and was easy to follow, and even interesting in parts. It might not have needed a plot, but it managed to work with it well. Until reading this thread, I didn't even realize that Not-Mad-Dog wasn't Mad Dog. I mean, in his fight in the first movie, Mad Dog took a lot of punishment, and I honestly just believed this movie was saying he survived his throat slitting from the first movie.
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Apr 14, 2014 23:16
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Loki_XLII posted:I caught this yesterday with my friend and really liked it. I thought the plot was actually handled really well, and was easy to follow, and even interesting in parts. It might not have needed a plot, but it managed to work with it well. Your second sentence kind of contradicts the first.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:17
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Your second sentence kind of contradicts the first. How so? If you're talking about the plot thing, well, the first movie was really good with a lackluster plot, this movie could also have been good with as minimal a plot as the first one. It decided to focus on the plot a bit more, which I didn't think was a bad thing, unlike some people. I just also would have been happy with one and a half hours of punching people. If you're talking about the Mad Dog thing, well, I don't see how that's contradictory at all, so I'm assuming you're talking about the first part.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:38
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Loki_XLII posted:How so? If you're talking about the plot thing, well, the first movie was really good with a lackluster plot, this movie could also have been good with as minimal a plot as the first one. It decided to focus on the plot a bit more, which I didn't think was a bad thing, unlike some people. I just also would have been happy with one and a half hours of punching people. Well a movie that was easy to follow and handled its plot well probably wouldn't have introduced an identical character to the previous movie's villain for a series of largely extraneous scenes with no direct connection to the central narrative.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:43
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Well a movie that was easy to follow and handled its plot well probably wouldn't have introduced an identical character to the previous movie's villain for a series of largely extraneous scenes with no direct connection to the central narrative.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:49
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Well a movie that was easy to follow and handled its plot well probably wouldn't have introduced an identical character to the previous movie's villain for a series of largely extraneous scenes with no direct connection to the central narrative. Okay, yeah, that makes more sense, and I guess you have a point. But I didn't think the Not Mad Dog scenes were that extraneous. It is probably the main part I have trouble with, and I wish that they had done more with the character, but they had to kill somebody to provoke a gang war, and it tied in with the humanization of what would otherwise be mooks to follow the sacrificial lamb for a couple of scenes. It's definitely a case where the storytelling made the violence more important and less random, and I think the scene was a lot better for it than if they just had a random gang member get beat to death in a bar. Edit: And yeah, Mad Dog is really cool. Shoombo fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 00:54
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Yeah there's definitely an interesting story going on with Prakoso's fight scenes. To some extent there's an element of "this guy is what Rama runs the risk of becoming and is afraid of becoming". A dude who gets paid well and makes sure his wife and kid are taken care of, but at the same time utterly cut off from them due to his pursuit of constant violence as a career. At the same time, I think it's more interesting to look at Rama as an example of what Prakoso is afraid of becoming. Take a look at how Prakoso fights: despite all his personal dishevelment, he's an incredibly composed and disciplined guy when it comes to his work. When he's taking out his target, he has a machete in his hand the whole time but he barely even uses the thing, and only uses the flat of the blade when he does. He's entirely uninterested in killing the bodyguards, so he doesn't. The blade of the machete gets used once, and that's for a quick and clean kill on the only guy he was ordered to kill. Now take a look at his next fight, in the club. He starts off pretty much the exact same way, using a very reactionary and non-lethal style while he tries out a number of potential exit strategies. It's only when it becomes apparent to him that he might not make it out of this club alive that he starts fighting more viciously. By the end of the fight he's going absolutely crazy, slamming a guy's head into the ground well past when the guy's dead. It's an interesting take on brutality in combat: it's not something necessarily born out of sadism, but out of frustration and fear and a feeling of weakness. If you're getting vicious with how you fight, maybe you're not losing the fight itself, but you're losing something. Thus, our answer to the question of "If Rama is such an idealistic boy scout of a guy, why does he fight like an absolute psychopath?"
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Apr 15, 2014 02:30
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Jonny Angel posted:Thus, our answer to the question of "If Rama is such an idealistic boy scout of a guy, why does he fight like an absolute psychopath?" Yeah, I think there's a volume of overtext and subtext that can be looked into for the fighting. It speaks volumes. Survival, animalistic, fighting for a cause, etc. It's probably half the story than just the story itself.
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Apr 15, 2014 03:53
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Jonny Angel posted:Thus, our answer to the question of "If Rama is such an idealistic boy scout of a guy, why does he fight like an absolute psychopath?" You know, this was my main problem with The Raid 1, and in 2 the problem is only worse except 2 is a much better movie. In 2, nearly every time Rama is about to get in some poo poo, he is center of the frame and very calm, almost as if meditating or praying. I don't know what to make of that.
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Apr 15, 2014 16:08
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I mean, he does a very good job of putting up that front and that serene expression, but you look at a guy who scalds a man to death with a cooking surface and I don't know how we can read him as calm (unless that's your point, the dissonance between how calm he looks right before a fight and how crazy he is once it starts). The more I think about the (incredibly uncomfortable) scene with Rama, Uco, and the two girls at the karaoke bar, the more I think it's a good reference for this discussion on the apparent contradiction of in control / out of control. Rama spends that scene looking calm and passive, but he's obviously incredibly conflicted and incredibly frustrated with his inability to defuse the situation without compromising his mission. Then there's Uco, whose "what they said didn't bother me, it's that they had the audacity to say it" is a lot more self-aware than I'd expect from someone as childishly monstrous as him. Uco knows that his family runs the place, that if security comes it's going to play out in his favor. So if he has enough power to make the club staff apologize to him when they catch him roughing up employees, why doesn't he have enough power to intimidate the girls into of pressing the button in the first place? This movie ultimately hits a lot of beats about the frailty of power and of apparent power. You can be heir to a powerful crime family and still feel like a low-level employee. You can be an unstoppable whirlwind of death and still be terrified every time a fight breaks out. You can build a criminal empire for decades and see it rapidly slip away from you because everyone else just decided to up their games. You can be lecturing a man who's got a shotgun held to his head by your lackey, and you still can't shout him down without coughing uncontrollably. Jenny Angel fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 18:18
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Jonny Angel posted:I mean, he does a very good job of putting up that front and that serene expression, but you look at a guy who scalds a man to death with a cooking surface and I don't know how we can read him as calm (unless that's your point, the dissonance between how calm he looks right before a fight and how crazy he is once it starts). I definitely get the sense that he is trying to center himself and hold in that rage until it comes to a point, is what I mean. The beatings he lays are not quite "just desserts" (like you say he fights like a lunatic) I don't know quite how to take it, even in light of I'm done.
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Apr 15, 2014 18:52
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Jonny Angel posted:I mean, he does a very good job of putting up that front and that serene expression, but you look at a guy who scalds a man to death with a cooking surface and I don't know how we can read him as calm (unless that's your point, the dissonance between how calm he looks right before a fight and how crazy he is once it starts). I ain't got nothin smart to add but I love this post.
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Apr 15, 2014 19:20
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