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The beginning of the movie definitely gives him cause to fight so viciously. If we're to assume that Rama takes his new superior's methods to heart, and since he goes along with the plan we have to think he does, then Rama is basically told he has to be brutal and/or murderous to achieve his goals and to protect his family. Then he goes to jail for WAY longer than he was ever supposed to where he has to be brutal to survive and learn to look the other way. You don't put someone in jail and expect them to come out zen. And then on top of all that his overall purpose is fueled by avenging his brother's death. There's even a part where he sees the man responsible and can barely contain himself.
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Apr 15, 2014 19:30
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Saw this over the weekend and it was pretty much everything I wanted. The kitchen fight might be my favorite action scene in anything. In the original I thought the Mad Dog 'final boss' fight went a little too long and dragged a bit, but here they varied it enough and kept it escalating through the end. I do agree the plot could've been trimmed some; I was never bored during the movie, but it would've been tighter if it was maybe 10-15 minutes shorter. I think they just spent too much time with Uco - once you establish that he's an ambitious rear end in a top hat with an inferiority complex I don't think there's much else to say. I think they kind of belabored that point a bit. I did have a few things I didn't understand- -Who was the guy that sat down at the table with Rama in prison early on and said something like 'I just made you'? -Why did Uco show Bejo the wire at the end? Did he think he put it on him? Was he trying to make him think he'd been playing him all along? -What was the deal with the Bejo tattoo reveal? Is that not a Goto thing?
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Apr 15, 2014 20:06
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Your last two questions are kinda the same question. He sees that Bejo's got the same tattoo as one of the guys he was given as a gift to execute, implying that the gang trying to kill him in prison had ties to Bejo. He then sees the recording device and figures that Bejo's been playing him all along in a number of ways. Note that despite finding that evidence, Uco never figures out that Rama is a cop. Hell, Bejo never figures out he's the brother of a mid-level crime boss he executed one time. Both of them, up till the moment they die, figure he's probably just a die-hard loyalist to Bangun out for revenge. "Your identity is safe" - Bunawar
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Apr 15, 2014 20:24
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Refused posted:
[spoiler]Probably an UC guy sent by Bunawar to raise Rama's underworld profile by being seen with him. Edit: I closed the spoiler tag but it's not working for some reason.
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Apr 15, 2014 20:26
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Jonny Angel posted:Your last two questions are kinda the same question. He sees that Bejo's got the same tattoo as one of the guys he was given as a gift to execute, implying that the gang trying to kill him in prison had ties to Bejo. He then sees the recording device and figures that Bejo's been playing him all along in a number of ways. This is kinda what bugged me the most. It didn't really have any bearing on the climax because he tries to kill him anyway. The "revelation" did nothing to save him or act as a catalyst since it was already moving in that direction anyway
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Apr 15, 2014 23:30
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Alan Smithee posted:This is kinda what bugged me the most. It didn't really have any bearing on the climax because he tries to kill him anyway. The "revelation" did nothing to save him or act as a catalyst since it was already moving in that direction anyway It's still someone who killed everyone else in a building to get to him. Whatever side he's on, he's compromised. With regards to Rama's vicious fighting style, there's a tie back to the first film. In the first, every time Rama fights, his facade cracks at the end. His hands drop, his rigid fighting stance vanishes, and he's back to being a scared, fragile human. What someone above said about control, and how fragile it is, is a motif of the fights as well. The prison fight was supposed to be a quick assassination. The attackers clearly had a couple of minutes before the guards would break it up, they may have even made a deal with the guards, but it quickly spirals into a full scale riot. In the restaurant, this isn't the first time goons have come after Prakoso. By the same token, they've got an army and probably figure it's just a quick take down of one guy. Rama seems to be contained in the back of the car, but that's given lie. Hammer Girl and Baseball Bat Boy specifically use the phrase business as usual right before their fight with Rama, and the final boss confidently squares up with Rama. Some of it just standard tropes of action films (of course the baddies are arrogant dicks, they're baddies) but it's a consistent motif that we're shown "the plan" only for the plan to fall apart. Someone else described Bejo as a Faustian character, and as soon as you think of him like that, the sacrifice scene makes sense. These are men who entered into some devil's bargain with Bejo, only to find out what it meant far too late ("you will help me conquer the city/") Hence the look of almost resigned anger on the last man's face. Overall though, it's great to see a martial arts movie go for so much more. My girlfriend, who saw the Raid 2 with me, hadn't seen any Tony Jaa movies, so we started watching some. I can't really remember a quicker drop off in quality between a star's two projects. Ong Bak is a simple, effective story. Tom Yung Goong is an incomprehensible mess that seems to have been made by someone who's heard of the concept of narrative storytelling, but didn't care for it.
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Apr 16, 2014 01:38
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Alan Smithee posted:This is kinda what bugged me the most. It didn't really have any bearing on the climax because he tries to kill him anyway. The "revelation" did nothing to save him or act as a catalyst since it was already moving in that direction anyway Unimportant to the plot, yes. Unimportant to Rama's narrative arc, absolutely not. I'd say that the very fact that it's unimportant to the plot is what makes it so important to how we understand where Rama's at and how he got there. See my first big black-text effortpost for more background, the one that talks about "the fickle nature of identity". Here's a bit more color on how it relates to the ending scenes, though: The whole movie, Rama hasn't been acting as his true self, and it's caused him an incredible amount of fear (What'll happen to his family if he gets found out?) and frustration (He'd love to rein Uco's sociopathic tendencies in, but that might expose him or compromise the mission). From the moment he drives the car into the receiving warehouse of the restaurant, he's acting as his true self again - and nobody notices any difference. Uco doesn't see him as an undercover cop. Bejo doesn't see him as an undercover cop. Goto's son Keiichi doesn't see him as an undercover cop, and in fact Rama's done such a good job acting like a mafia career killer that the Japanese mafia, upon meeting him, immediately offers him a career as a killer. Think of it this way: imagine Keiichi is told that besides Uco and Bejo's men, there are two people of note in the restaurant. There's Yuda, an enforcer for Bangun that refused to follow Uco after Bangun's death, and there's Rama, a rookie cop. Keiichi is standing in the doorway and sees Rama. "Ah, this one must be Yuda", he thinks. So it matters. And hell, it matters to the plot, because every little piece I've described above is a part of what informs the final moments of the film, is part of what lets us understand the full weight of the final line of dialogue: "I'm done."
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Apr 16, 2014 01:41
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This movie could have been amazing with some editing. I hate to sound like Mark Kermode but it was just waaaay too long. The movie could have been cut down to 120 minutes tops and been much better off for it. They spent at least an hour and a half setting up this ridiculous crime-family drama that I didnt want or care about. If like me you want more of the kind of movie that The Raid 1 was, do yourself a favor and wait for the DVD so you can fast-forward to the last hour. fake edit: And the worst part is that the drama that they spent so much loving time on was just flat out bad, making the whole exercise totally pointless.
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Apr 16, 2014 06:20
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I think the structural problems of the film stem from it feeling jarringly disconnected from the actual fighting. From what I can gather from these films, pencak silat is a martial art that revolves around loving up your opponent as fast and as efficiently as possible. The Raid had that principle baked into every frame; the violence palatable because it was in harmony with everything else in the movie. But here, with the digressions, clichéd crime drama rubbish and general flabby nature of the film, the opposite is true. It feels like a film working against itself.
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Apr 16, 2014 08:04
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Just got back from seeing this and thought it was awesome. Could've been shorter but I didn't feel like it dragged either, so no real complaints from me there. The baseball bat guy & hammer girl, and the prison/mud fights were the best bits IMO. Machete fight had potential but was a bit of a letdown. A load of people had hyped this up as some sort of gangster/police corruption epic, but given the length of the film, the story felt pretty simplistic to me, not that I minded too much because the set pieces ruled. My only real complaint would be that I wish they had introduced the fight scenes in a few different ways. Slow-mo and loud music before every fight got a little grating. Are they planning a 3rd? From memory, they are, but the story feels thinly spread as it is... (Unless they want to do a spin-off about Hammer Girl and Baseball Bat Guy). I sound pretty negative about this film, but I did really enjoy it, probably more so than the first.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:54
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They are planning a third. It probably won't focus on Rama though.
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Apr 17, 2014 01:06
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Honestly I'd be down for a film of nothing but Hammer Girl, Baseball Bat Man, and the Assassin loving people up on contracts and then chilling mostly quietly at Bejo's bar in between jobs.
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Apr 17, 2014 03:15
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I watched the Raid 2 two nights ago, and I watched the Raid 1 again last night and the original just felt kind of boring compared to the second one. I didn't think it would be possible but the fight with Rama, his brother and Mad Dog has just been completely overshadowed by the last couple of fights in the second one, and that really is impressive. The ONLY problem I have with the film is that Rama put the wire into Uco's wallet in the first hour/hour and a half of the movie but Uco only notices it's there at the very end. Are we supposed to think that Uco, the self-entitled son of a crime lord who dresses well and complains about his favourite club not being exclusive enough, never looked in his wallet until the end? Obviously a little sperg complaint that doesn't matter but I noticed it. Absolutely loved the movie, looking forward to seeing what they can do next.
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Apr 17, 2014 13:15
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Stargate posted:I watched the Raid 2 two nights ago, and I watched the Raid 1 again last night and the original just felt kind of boring compared to the second one. I didn't think it would be possible but the fight with Rama, his brother and Mad Dog has just been completely overshadowed by the last couple of fights in the second one, and that really is impressive. Re: wallet If he uses it at all like mine, there's a section for cash/cards and then a section for things I might use once in a blue moon. I forget the reason why he was even in his wallet at the end of the movie, though.
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Apr 17, 2014 14:35
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Lobok posted:Re: wallet Wasn't he going to tip the guy in the bathroom, ha also could be buying most of his stuff on credit from his father without physically paying for things.
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Apr 17, 2014 14:55
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nomapple posted:Are they planning a 3rd? From memory, they are, but the story feels thinly spread as it is... (Unless they want to do a spin-off about Hammer Girl and Baseball Bat Guy). There is a third coming, Tony Jaa will be in it.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:41
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Mr.48 posted:This movie could have been amazing with some editing. I hate to sound like Mark Kermode but it was just waaaay too long. The movie could have been cut down to 120 minutes tops and been much better off for it. They spent at least an hour and a half setting up this ridiculous crime-family drama that I didnt want or care about. If like me you want more of the kind of movie that The Raid 1 was, do yourself a favor and wait for the DVD so you can fast-forward to the last hour. Was going to see this this weekend, but a few of the posts in this thread make me nervous. I already thought the first movie felt too long despite some cool bits. People are creaming their pants about how this is the greatest action movie they've ever seen which got me interested, but the same happened with Raid 1 and when we watched that last weekend I was pretty disappointed. The fight scenes felt like they would never end (especially the 2-on-1 at the end, christ can this be over yet?) and I didn't love the more brutal knife stuff, but that might be a result of my expectations after friends called it a kung-fu movie. I also have seen Dredd several times so the entire movie I kept being reminded of similarities, wish I could've seen the Raid first. But with that runtime, might hold off until its out on DVD. I generally enjoy hand-to-hand combat with less people involved unless it's a Jackei Chan style stunt movie, but the few 1-on-1 fights in the first movie outstayed their welcome to me. The mentions of "hammer girl" and "bat man" catch my eye though - are those more focused fights or big group brawls?
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Apr 17, 2014 18:01
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By reading your post I can already tell you won't like the movie so I wouldn't watch it
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Apr 17, 2014 18:16
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incorporeal posted:By reading your post I can already tell you won't like the movie so I wouldn't watch it Cheers.
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Apr 17, 2014 18:26
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Electromax posted:But with that runtime, might hold off until its out on DVD. I generally enjoy hand-to-hand combat with less people involved unless it's a Jackei Chan style stunt movie, but the few 1-on-1 fights in the first movie outstayed their welcome to me. The mentions of "hammer girl" and "bat man" catch my eye though - are those more focused fights or big group brawls? By the criteria you mentioned, you would only enjoy a handful of the fights and action sequences in this movie (although those were extremely good), so I would wait for the DVD. Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 19:32
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Electromax posted:Cheers. Give it a try when it hits dvd so at least you won't be sitting in a theater bored. The problems you had with 1 are still there and the movie is even longer. Might not be so enjoyable for you. Realized my last post sounded dickish haha Edit- what that person said ^^^^^^^^
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Apr 17, 2014 19:35
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Electromax posted:The fight scenes felt like they would never end (especially the 2-on-1 at the end, christ can this be over yet?) This is one of those opinions where you know it exists, but you can't believe a real person holds it.
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Apr 18, 2014 06:19
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zenintrude posted:There is a third coming, Tony Jaa will be in it. Is this an actual thing?
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Apr 18, 2014 07:20
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Alan Smithee posted:Is this an actual thing? The two big things the director's reiterated about the next The Raid is that it will branch off plotwise from an event that happens a few hours before the climax of The Raid 2 and that he won't be ready to do it for a few years because he wants to work on two other films (one American, one Indonesian) first. This interview with GQ implies that the branching off point might be the Japanese gang's decision to go to war with Bejo's and Uco's gang, but has other tidbits too about some of the choices made in designing the action sequences. This link here has a pretty interesting interview with Iko Uwais and Julie Estelle, which includes the backstory for Hammer Girl and Baseball Bat Man. Julie Estelle posted:Basically, she's one part of a brother and sister team with Baseball Bat Man. So the story is, when we were children, she was probably nine, he was eleven, and every night our father would spin a coin - did you see those scenes where I spin the coin? He spins the coin and if it was tails, he would hit me, and if it was heads, he would hit my brother with a baseball bat.
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Apr 18, 2014 07:43
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Snowman_McK posted:This is one of those opinions where you know it exists, but you can't believe a real person holds it. Yeah, it's not like it became boring or repetitive either, the fight was long but exciting. I think the end 1-on-1 in the sequel is probably even longer.
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Apr 18, 2014 08:16
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I'm pretty sure the fight at the end of the first one is longer than the fight at the end of this one. Both are fantastic, though.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:53
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The end fight scene was great. Immature lols a plenty in the cinema for the strapon moment. Gasping murmurs for the shotgun bit. Never seen so many throats cut in a movie.
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Apr 20, 2014 07:09
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axleblaze posted:They are planning a third. It probably won't focus on Rama though. I hope they let his actor play a different role though and bring back Mad Dog again as yet another character. It makes it all seem like a new five deadly venoms to me.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:37
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FishBulb posted:I hope they let his actor play a different role though and bring back Mad Dog again as yet another character. It makes it all seem like a new five deadly venoms to me. They pretty much are doing this already. Merantau was their first film, before the Raid series started. The guy who played Bejo, for example, was in Merantau but not the first Raid.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:10
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I should probably watch Merantau. It was on my Netflix queue for a long time back when they had those.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:39
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FishBulb posted:I should probably watch Merantau. It was on my Netflix queue for a long time back when they had those. It's solid. It follows the same blueprint as things like Ong Bak. I thoroughly enjoyed it at the time, but in retrospect, it looks really unambitious. Its a pretty drat impressive debut though. It's amazing to see how quickly the team has gotten better at what they do.
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Apr 21, 2014 23:30
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Just a couple of stray thoughts: I really enjoyed the scenes with Mad Dog in the middle of the movie; they almost amount to a short film. They coincide with Rama disappearing for what feels like 20-30 minutes, but that's okay. For a movie this long, it kind of serves as a much-needed intermission. The fight in the mud felt like a live-action Superjail! sequence
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Apr 22, 2014 03:12
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Looks like the deleted 'gang war' scene has been put on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_Qhmiz40E. I can see why they cut it because it's a bit superfluous, but it is cool to watch. Quote by Gareth Evans in the description: ------ "This is one of a few deleted scenes taken from the film. Reasons to cut were entirely down to pacing issues. This was probably the hardest for me to cut due to the fact that the production on this scene lasted around 6 days of shooting, it cost us a gently caress load to make and it served to escalate the gang war out onto the streets involving people outside of the closed off inter-gang politics. At the end of the day though, after discussing its worth it took us away from the central theme for a little too long with characters that would only exist in this scene alone. Whenever I edit a film - every scene feels like a precious moment. "No loving way can I cut this" is a regular phrase I utter at Aram (one of the producers at XYZ Films who patiently worked with me to get the film to it's final cut) but his patience was always a virtue and it's when you make a cut and no longer miss it from the bigger picture a few days down the line that you realise it was the right decision to make. But I still want you guys to see the chaos and the mayhem we had in store, and so with the release of the film coming in a few days time - here's a sample of one of the action scenes that simply didn't make it. Enjoy." -------------
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Apr 23, 2014 18:18
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FutureCop posted:Looks like the deleted 'gang war' scene has been put on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_Qhmiz40E. I can see why they cut it because it's a bit superfluous, but it is cool to watch. Of interest to the second film, there's Part 1 and Part 2 of behind-the-scenes featurettes about how they made The Raid 2. It's about 25 minutes total. There's similar featurettes on the first The Raid and production blogs on Merantau as well on that channel, if anyone's interested.
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Apr 24, 2014 00:13
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Dammit, I've been busy and haven't been able to get away to see this, and I check this weekend, and it's gone from all the theaters in Atlanta, and I'll have to drive to either Austell or Snellville to see it. Did it do really badly or something? I hope the blu-ray comes out soon.
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Apr 25, 2014 21:11
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AgentHaiTo posted:Dammit, I've been busy and haven't been able to get away to see this, and I check this weekend, and it's gone from all the theaters in Atlanta, and I'll have to drive to either Austell or Snellville to see it. Did it do really badly or something? A foreign film with subtitles, of course it did badly in the US.
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Apr 26, 2014 00:33
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Jonny Angel posted:Also, quick question for those who know more about Indonesia than me. My understanding is that Rama, Eka, Uco, Bangun, these are all given names, and that the only surnames we've been given in the series are Goto and Riyadi (Tama from the first film). First off, is this a correct assumption? Second off, does this make sense as far as how people address each other in Indonesia, or is it about as goofy as an American version where Bunaware says "Alright Rama, we're going after the local kingpin, Rick."
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Apr 26, 2014 14:35
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Ogantai posted:Rama, Eka, and Uco are given names but Bangun is a nickname (it means "wake up"), the rest is correct. Mononyms are quite common in Indonesia, especially among Javanese (ex: former Indonesian PM Suharto) or given names with patronymics (ex: another former PM Megawati Sukarnoputri). Hows the box office over there?
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Apr 26, 2014 15:15
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Ogantai posted:Bangun is a nickname (it means "wake up") Hahaha it's a little on-the-nose but I love it.
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Apr 26, 2014 16:22
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Ogantai posted:Rama, Eka, and Uco are given names but Bangun is a nickname (it means "wake up"), the rest is correct. Mononyms are quite common in Indonesia, especially among Javanese (ex: former Indonesian PM Suharto) or given names with patronymics (ex: another former PM Megawati Sukarnoputri). Nice Seltzer's avatar.
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Apr 26, 2014 18:15
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