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The insult is in "warrior" rather than "social justice". A social justice campaigner, or a social justice activist or even a social justice blogger cares about changing hearts and minds, about creating a better world with more peace, love and understanding and helping improve the lives of the persecuted and dispossessed. A social justice warrior just wants a fight. A social justice campaigner will watch a video of a woman criticising the treatment of women in Islam, consider it, look at the issues and come up with a measured response. A social justice warrior will see the title of the video, watch 30 seconds of it, and launch a hate blog about how the woman in the video is racist and should kill herself. They will do this without reading the background and finding out that her father is a Muslim, she grew up in a household with strict Islamic rules and is relating her own experiences and those of many of her female relatives on her fathers side and explaining how these real people have found some of the rules they had to live by oppressive and restricting A social justice campaigner will see a young woman who is herself highly engaged with social issues use the word "tranny" in an old video, not as a hateful pejorative but in ignorance, let her know it's a bad word and graciously accept her sincere apology and her promise not to use it again. A social justice warrior will see this apology, denounce it as false and unacceptable, and launch a hate blog about how the woman in the video is transphobic and should kill herself. A social justice campaigner will wait until a film is actually released before calling it out for being racist or unrepresentative, and if they do so will approach it with knowledge and appreciation of history. They may well be angry, and express this anger, but their arguments will be based on the actual film and the film industry in general. A social justice warrior is happy to do that purely on the basis of the trailers, and also to simultaneously criticise the company for not representing non-white cultures AND for cultural appropriation if they do attempt to represent non-white cultures. In this case the cultures the company is not allowed to attempt to represent includes medieval Scottish, and if you watch their film about magic bears in medieval Scotland you are being SUPER racist. Once the film is actually released and turns out to have some nice songs, most of the social justice warriors will forget their initial objections and devote themselves to drawing incestuous lesbian fanart of said movie. In the world of social justice campaigning, a tone argument is where you refuse to accept a wronged parties legitimate points because they are upset about being horribly mistreated for decades and are expressing their unhappiness and anger in their words. In the world of social justice warriors, a tone argument is refusing to accept being told you are a literal Hitler and should kill yourself, multiple times by hundreds of people the vast majority of whom are completely unconnected to any of the actual issues being discussed, which are often the most innocuous poo poo imaginable. Some of the time, the person they are shouting over and silencing is the one with the ACTUAL issue. Annoyingly, the actual targets of the social justice campaigner or activist and the social justice warrior can often overlap significantly, and the existence of the latter has given a lot of really lovely people a great excuse to dismiss the many legitimate grievances the former have with their terrible behaviour. Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 13:31
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Pook Good Mook posted:Literally no one here is saying that the actual issues and vocabulary used to talk about them don't have merit. dude, the person they quoted in that very post cited Tumblr as the *origin* of terms like kyriarchy, ally and intersectionality. And while people here are reasonably well informed and able to differentiate between proper social justice and people just looking for a fight, you'd be shocked at the frequency that well argued legitimate points are brushed aside to the cry of "lol SJW gently caress you!". It's very similar to people who dismiss feminism as a movement because of a miniscule but vocal minority who genuinely want a female dominated society where men are subjugated second class citizens That's the real problem with people like this. The points they bring up are often legitimate, or at least closely related to legitimate points. But they are subtly (or unsubtly) twisted and presented in such obnoxious ways, and the people we're talking about are so closed minded and unable to appreciate any point of view but the one of their little echo chamber, that they tarnish the real movements and hinder real change. So you have to be careful throwing the term SJW around as a perjorative in mixed company, because a lot of the time there will be at least a few people who take away the message that social justice as a whole is bad, rather than that fairly tiny subset of trolls/aggressive arseholes/idiots who care more about winning arguments and feeling smug than actually making things better.
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Apr 3, 2014 19:00
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LividLiquid posted:
SJWs don't fight systematic oppression and bigotry. They call people out for liking Brave because it was made by Americans so is terrible appropriation of Medieval Scottish Culture. Other examples of cultural appropriation include going to a Chinese restaurant, Tattooing of any kind and the use of feathers for decoration (not in designs that ape those used by indigenous cultures, but any feathers in any way). They are also dead set against interracial marriage. "Tumblr or Stormfront" is a real game you can play and it's surprisingly easy to find quotes that are hard to place. They demand to be acknowledged as trans-fat reincarnated Japanese tortoises. They decry racism at one turn and complain about how black people are ruining their precious anime the next They demand respect as Rape Victims because one of their made up multiple personalities raped another of their made up multiple personalities in a previous life. They They find people actively working for equality and trying to educate, who once used a slur in complete ignorance and apologised for it profusely or who criticised a culture they were born into, and tell them to kill themselves SJW as a term is, or at least should be, specifically aimed at people who couch their own bigotry, hate and ignorance in progressive terms and use it to bully and belittle others. There really are people who think "triggering" is the same as things they don't like, and that if you post a picture of a cheese sandwich on your blog without a trigger warning you are a literal Hitler. Honestly. No that's not the proper use of the word, but a small group has picked up on a bunch of great terms and twisted them beyond all recognition. When many people talk about SJWs, these are the people they are thinking of. But like I said, the existence of this small group of people has given shitheads and bigots great ammunition to use against the vast majority of sane, rational and genuinely progressive advocates of social justice. Given it's rising prevalence as an insult to actual social justice advocates and minority voices, I'm probably going to stop using the term "SJW" in pretty much all situations just to avoid misunderstandings. It was intended as a term for the bullies, trolls and shitheads, but has expended as a catchall insult for good people with good opinions and I don't want to be associated with people who use it that way. Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 10:08
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The question was "why is SJW an insult? social justice is good!" The answer has basically been "some people use the language and systems of social justice to be idiots, bullies and shitheads, or end up being just as racist or destructive as the people the claim to be fighting against. Regular people call those shitheads Social Justice Warriors, implying they care more about the fight than the actual issues. Unfortunately bigots have taken that insult and now apply it to all social justice using it to dismiss legitimate arguments" I mean, that's the thread, basically. No one is denying that you and people like you are being dismissed and belittled using the same language. It's really just more evidence that the conflict-seeking narcissists are damaging the movement more than they are helping it, which was the point of the term in the first place before it was co-opted. like I said I have no plans to continue using it and will come up with some more descriptive language when talking about people like Jenn the trans-fat Japanese tortoise or Riley the aggressive racist, or people who claim that if you don't believe their mind contains the souls of a ten thousand year old demon, a my little pony and a columbine shooter it's exactly the same as deliberately mis-gendering trans people or hating Asians. There needs to be language to talk about these fuckers without also encouraging dismissal of legitimate points, but at this point SJW appears to have passed it's sell by date.
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Apr 4, 2014 12:33
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BigFactory posted:We need another insult for people who take TV shows too seriously. aatrek
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Apr 4, 2014 14:00
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