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Badger of Basra posted:Can you explain the difference between a European political party and the parliamentary groups? Like, Labour is in the "Party of European Socialists" but their parliamentary group is the PAS&D. Are they the same thing with different names? The euro-parliament groups are coalitions of Euro-Parties and independent MP's, or national parties that aren't part of an Euro-Party. In the case of the Party of European Socialists(The European wing of the Socialist International). PES used to have it's own euro-parliament group called The Socialist Group(or something), after '09 three non-PES parties joined( the Italian Democrat Party, the Greek Democrat Party, and the Cyprus Democrat Party) so the name changed to accommodate(Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats). Another example, the Party of the European Left(PEL) is part of the euro-parliament group of the European United Left–Nordic Green Left(GUE/NGL). The GUE/NGL is compromised of the PEL and the European Anti-Capitalist Party(EACL). You will find common national parties in both. The Portuguese Left Bloc has members in the PEL and the EACL. Individual MP's also have a lot more freedom than they have inside national politics. National parties might campaign as a single unit, but when the elections are done, their MP's all go their separate ways, or even declare themselves independent MP's. Like the case of Rui Tavares who was elected on the Portuguese Left Bloc ticket in '09 and promptly went rogue, and joined as an independent in the European Greens–European Free Alliance, which is an euro-parliament group composed of the euro-parties European Green Party and European Free Alliance. It's a brand and "politics" issue, really. The idea is to make all the disparate, and often contradictory national politics and ideologies, to reach some form of compromise and agreement with each other on the euro stage. It also gives more power and gives better representation to parties in the parliament floor. I think that only the European People's Party is the same thing as it's euro-parliament group wing. Brussels zoo is putting it lightly. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Apr 12, 2014 |
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Apr 12, 2014 11:14
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Here's how the Euro elections are going down on Portugal, and who is who. This time Portugal will only get 21 spots, because of Croatia entering the Union last year. There's 20 parties in Portugal(recognized by our Constitutional Court), only two didn't present lists or candidates, I won't talk about the parties from the Azores and Madeira, nor that weird socialist one. This makes these euro-elections the biggest ever in Portugal. Though no debates or election coverage are going to happen, cause TV channels can't be bothered to follow the law that forces media to cover with equal treatment all the candidates. Mainly because doing so would force TV to change all their schedule, and cover other parties than PSD/CDS and PS is too much work. Besides CDU and BE already have their daily minute of media coverage why do they need more? There was a recent proposal by PSD/CDS and supported by PS, to change the law as to only cover parties with parliamentary seat, but that law also came with the bonus that the State could pick and choose certain conditions on how the reporting would be done, so the government/state just gave reason to a bunch of media barons. TV won't do any coverage, and PSD/CDS and PS don't mind. Victory for Democracy. Latest polls give victory to PS. Filling Mans with unbridled joy. The Main Attraction:  -Aliança Portugal(Portugal Alliance) is a coalition between the parties in government: The Partido Social Democrata(Social Democrat Party(PSD)) and it's junior partner Partido do Centro Democratico Cristão-Partido Popular(Christian Democratic Centre-Popular Party(CDS-PP)). Headlining this show is PSD man Paulo Rangel, his number two is CDS Nuno Melo. Rangel is trying to salvage his political career after failing to achieve anything of worth these last years, Nuno Melo is an idiot. They claim not to be neo-liberals, cause that is a bad word, but hard defenders of Social Democracy, whose horrible task of cutting pensions fell on their laps, because PS are irresponsible and filled with Debt. Their European program is based on how the Socialist Party is not going to pay Debt, and worse, is going to make more Debt! They also like to say these kind of things: "Permanent cuts don't mean forever". Euro-Parliamentary Group? European People's Party Current MPs: 10  -Partido Socialista(The Socialist Party(PS). Headlined by Francisco Assis. Assis used to be the number two to former prime minister José Socrates, and is a rival of current party secretary general Antonio José Seguro. So Seguro has arranged Assis a 5 year long paid tour of Belgium and France. How nice of him. The Socialists are here to defend us from the extreme ideologies of neo-liberalism, and to pay the Debt, and not get more Debt, via restructuring of Debt. Some members want pardon of Debt. This makes Seguro cry, because he doesn't want pardons. Last week he didn't want restructuring of Debt either, but this week he is okay with it, next week probably won't. Euro-Parliamentary Group? S&D Current MPs: 7  -Coligação Democratica Unitaria(Democratic Unitarian Coalition(CDU). A coalition between the Partido Comunista Portugues((Portuguese Communist Party(PCP) and the Partido Ecologista "Os Verdes(Ecologist Party"The Greens"(PEV)). Headlined by João Ferreira, vice-president of GUE/NGL. This continues the trend of CDU headlining more young and fresh faces, to show the country and world, they aren't political old farts from the days that Lenin was still around. They are looking to get a third man/lady into the Euro-parliament floor, and are quite confident as more votes flock their way as protest against austerity. Their base is a full renegotiation and restructuring of Debt on long term, and argue against the EU reducing funds to the periphery. The more radical proposition is a dissolution of the monetary union.(With Europe paying for all the damage it wrecked on Portuguese economy!) Euro-Parliamentary Group? GUE/NGL Current MPs: 2  -Bloco de Esquerda(Left Bloc(BE)) headlined by one of the two only women running the lists, Marisa Matias. One of few bright stars left in BE, has been trusted with the ungrateful job of salvaging a sinking ship. This year BE is simply hoping to keep it's two MPs, where back in '09 it managed to get three(before one going rogue) Believing they could be at the same time friends of PS and a more younger PCP, they blew up the whole show and have been leaking members and voters ever since 2011. They are aiming for a restructuring of Debt to get Portugal out of the financial stranglehold of the TROIKA and international markets. Wants an EU more responsible and with better solidarity with failing members. Euro-Parliamentary Group? GUE/NGL or European Greens–European Free Alliance depending on rogue members. Current MPs: 2(Originally 3 but one turned independent) The main concern is of course the Budget Treaty signed with TROIKA and austerity in Europe. It sort of stifled most political discourse. PSD/CDS see no reason to change course, while PS is stuck between worlds. PS signed the treaty, so in many ways, CDU and BE are correct when they call PS compromised. This is further highlighted by the inability of getting a straight speech from PS. CDU is going to make gains, while BE is going to get cannibalized by the Splitters. The Splitters: The last years saw BE having a bunch of dissidents leaving and forming their own BE parties or movements. They all have the same objective. To unite the left!  Partido LIVRE(FREE), headlined by wild card Rui Tavares. Tavares ran for the Euro elections in '09 on the BE ticket and then went rogue, turned independent and joined the Green Alliance . He has returned to Portugal to form LIVRE last year, and is back on the race. LIVRE is relatively new, like MAS, their ultimate goal is to unite the Left. LIVRE states it's in the middle of the Left, so it's the perfect position to converge! Similar stance to BE when it comes to Debt, says that the treaty with TROIKA is anti-Europe. Euro-Parliamentary Group? European Greens–European Free Alliance  Movimento Alternativa Socialista(Alternative Socialist Movement(MAS)) headlined by former BE member Gil Garcia. Annoyed with BE sucking up to PS, they broke off and went looking for proper socialism. They want to be the force that is going to bridge PCP, PAN, Verdes, into a cohesive Portuguese Left. BE, LIVRE and PS need not apply. Share some ideas with CDU, want a referendum for Portugal on the issue of keeping the Euro. Euro-Parliamentary Group? GUE/NGL Both parties suffer from the same condition. They are entering a political area that is already entrenched and saturated in Portugal, and both offer very little, so far, that distinguishes them on the eyes of the electorate. Especially in a country filled with old people. Why vote for the high-school socialism of MAS when PCP is around? Why vote for kindergarten Leftism of LIVRE when BE already does that? They still new, so there's a lot of chance to grow and find a voice that isn't riddled with "Uniting the Left" soundbites. I think LIVRE will do better in the long run, as Tavares seems to be more savvy. The Wilderness: Portugal this year presents a wide variety of wild parties. You have everything; fascists, nature lovers, Maoists, angry Catholics, and populist reactionaries!  -Movimento Partido da Terra(Earth Party Movement(MPT)) headlined by super lawyer and Judge António Marinho e Pinto. Boasts turning MPT into the 6th Political Force in Portugal on the last elections.(They got 2% by riding on PSD/CDS coalitions on the municipals) Marinho e Pinto is very preoccupied with the situation of the US naval base on the Azores, and promises to bring back tensions on the Atlantic so the Americans gives us more money, and stick around forever. TROIKA bad. Euro-Parliamentary Group? Marinho e Pinto claims to be "Free".  -Partido Comunista dos Trabalhadores Portugueses/ Movimento Reorganizativo do Partido do Proletariado(The Other Communist Party.(PCTP/MRPP)) Leopoldo Mesquita leads this merry band of Maoists. Their "pragmatic point" is leaving the Euro as Portugal cannot grow while under the it. The former party of the soon-to-be ex-Commissioner Zé Manel Durão Barroso. He got kicked out of it for stealing desks from the Lisbon Law College. That rascal. Euro-Parliamentary Group? GUE/NGL  -Partido pelos Animais e pela Natureza(Party for the Animals and Nature(PAN)) headlined by Orlando Figueiredo. Figueiredo claims to be the only political force that "is outside of the rigged political deck". They aim for a Europe that recognizes "the rights of animals, of nature and future Human and non-Human generations", and the end of entertainment that uses the exploitation of animals, and the end of the Common Agricultural Policy. Save the Iberian Lynx! Euro-Parliamentary Group? European Greens–European Free Alliance or GUE/NGL  -Partido Nacional Renovador(The National Renovation Party(PNR)) Led by Humberto Nuno de Oliveira, this is the Portuguese Fascist Party. But it wasn't always. It used to be the party of the first President after 74, Ramalho Eanes. It was the centre party proposed by Eanes to counter the madness engulfing Portugal and the bitter feud between the Socialist and Communist Party. When he left, the party rotted away, with eventually a bunch of fascists making home in it. Their strategy is the EU is bad for Portugal and Europe, and to beware of "Federasts". Euro-Parliamentary Group? Not playing ball with the other anti-EU.  -Partido Popular Monarquico(Popular Monarch Party(PPM) headlined by Nuno Correia da Silva. Want a European wide social pension, and the creation of an European fund to rescue families who are over in debt. Against salary cuts, as only fair and just salaries will defeat Communism. Oddly tame this year. Still they insist on having that ugly flag and sucking up to the Duke of Bragança. Boooooo! Euro-Parliamentary Group? Dunno  (You decide! Pro-Abortion or Christian CAN'T CHOOSE BOTH! END ABORTION NOW!) -Portugal Pró-Vida(Pro-Life Portugal(PPV) headlined by the other woman running a list, Joana Câmara Pereira. Catholics, "pro-family", and anti-abortion, running on the base that "they" are killing Christian values. They like to post image macros with quotes of Plato and Saint Augustine on their facebook. Euro-Parliamentary Group? Abortion bad!  -Partido da Nova Democracia(The New Democracy Party) headlined by popular actor Nicolau Breyner. A party that was born out of CDS, to reinforce Conservative-Liberal values, now overrun by fascists-in-disguise and reactionary nutters. Some say it always was like that. Euro-Parliamentary Group? No idea. Abstention rates are probably be hitting new highs, as in '09, there was only 37% of turnout, and this time around Portuguese are even more disinterested with the EU, and with their politicians. Secretly Portuguese wish that their fate would turn into that Saramago novel where the Iberian Peninsula breaks off with the continent and roams the Atlantic and everything breaksdown, so we can get rid of this clown show. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 15, 2014 |
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Apr 15, 2014 16:02
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floppo posted:Perhaps someone here can help me with this. I'm a German citizen, but I've lived in another EU member state for some time. I registered to vote in this country and am on the rolls here. I just found out that I absolutely need to be in Germany on the day of the election, and in a quite random place (I've never lived there). My question is: can I vote in Germany by just showing up at a polling station with my passport? Figuring out how to vote by mail in the other country seems impossibly difficult? http://www.europeancitizensabroad.eu/germany.html You have to show up at the district you are registered in. But it seems that you can put in the request for vote by mail via the German Federal Electoral Office page, or contacting the German embassy in the country where you live. Edit: Bad at reading, and missed that you are registered in that country.  http://www.europeancitizensabroad.eu/vote.html Guess you have see how the rules go down where you currently live, but if the mail system is that complicated, being a German citizen you could probably do the above if it's easier. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 00:27
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Badger of Basra posted:Question about Renzi: he has talked up Tony Blair and said he's great and super cool. Do people outside the UK not realize that Tony Blair was terrible and widely loathed by the time he left? When Blair became party leader for Labour in the mid-90's, he set out to reform the party for the trials ahead. "New Labour" was born, gone with socialism, in with the social. Basically he did what other illustrious leftist like Mitterrand or Mario Soares did, years before, which was to put this socialism and labour rights thing in the closet and never speak of it again. Blair is also the last European(British) head of government to have been important, and is sold around as a guy who was faced with impossible choices with hard hitting consequences, but didn't flinch and has no regrets. Tough guy, for difficult days. Won't leave you hanging with a second rate politician in charge, just because the heat went up.(Gordon who?) This is what Renzi is selling. Reforming his centre-left Democratic Party, and also the electoral system in Italy. Plus a Solution for Italy woes. Italy needs a tough guy, for it's difficult days, and found it in Renzi, whose main competence is having a great smile and winning the grand prize on the Wheel of Fortune when he was a teenager.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:37
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The Belgian posted:Would it be a good idea to vote verhofstadt just because I support his scheme for a federal europe and he seems the quickest way to get there? Or are some of the more left leaning groups also quite pro a stronger europe? Plus at least he's competent even if I don't agree with him. You can't vote for who gets to be European Commissioner, that job now belongs to the Parliament(After a candidate is proposed by the Council). But the choice is probably going to fall into which dude has more seats representing his party, so if you want Verhofstadt you vote for whoever is running for the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe ticket in your country. As for Leftist being pro-Europe maybe the Greens?
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Apr 23, 2014 21:56
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R. Mute posted:Whatever happened to those calls to democratise the EU? Seems like ages ago that I heard about that. It's still around, it's just that these days Euroscepticism is on the rise. There are people still out there demanding that the Commissioner be voted in directly by the people, instead of council/parliament.
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Apr 24, 2014 18:41
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R. Mute posted:What do euroscepticism and the democratisation of the EU have to do with each other? Much. Further democratisation, like for example the simple act of people voting for the Commissioner. A Commissioner elected by the people, will further legitimize his role as a the not just the head of the legislative body of the EU, but also that of every citizen of Europe. A "President of the European Union" without the proper title, and making him far more important than any head of government and state. For Britons, for example, he would rank higher than Queen, for French, higher than the President of the Republic. In short, the more the average citizen is required to participate in the EU, the more powers and strength the EU will have over the nation states. Euroscepticism puts a damp in this as it's opposed to loss of any kind of sovereignty.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:19
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The logical conclusion to the NATO woes in Europe is to to get the EU an army, and have the EU pony up the money for NATO. (hahahahha)
Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 00:10 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 00:06
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It's the media fault for not giving the proper time and attention to Tsipras campaign. 
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May 8, 2014 10:30
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Char posted:
He is busy doing very important "business". Might appear on the last debate, who knowns.
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May 9, 2014 18:14
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LemonDrizzle posted:Is Tsipras' spoken English good enough to participate in a televised debate like this without being at a gross disadvantage? Bad English didn't stop former Portuguese PM José Socrates of doing lectures in the USA. But yes, apparently he has trouble without a prepared speech, but that isn't stopping José Bové.  Edit: I don't think the EU can really do much, other than angry letters. Doing actually something, especially at this point would only make more euro sceptics come out of the woodwork. Personally, I think the EU should care less about deficits, and care more about where those European funds it gives out to member states end up. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 18:38 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 18:33
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At the end we are reminded of the great democratic process of the Europe Union, by applauding that for the first time the Commission is going to be elected. Though as a Portuguese I can only vote for two, of the four candidates in the debate, as Verhofstadt has no party representing him, and Keller/Bové only have a party that has been around for 5 months. I highly doubt it, but I hope this democratic deficit in many of the members states comes up eventually in these debates. Also I'm not sure if Schultz is for real. In the closing statements he talks about how people(euro-citizens) are "struggling with 1000 euros(every day????)". I imagine he is talking about wages. Maybe in Germany 1000 euros is what you give as tip for cab drivers, but there's a lot of people out there in Europe who would consider a 1000 euros a month enough to feel like winning the lottery.
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May 9, 2014 19:48
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Phlegmish posted:€ 500 a month might be normal if you're young, on unemployment benefits and living with your parents. I've been on benefits for a few months now (thankfully starting a new job in June) and I get even less than that. But if you have a full-time job, € 1000 a month is close to minimum wage in most of Western Europe - not just Germany. It's not a lot, and that wasn't such a crazy thing to say for Schultz. The minimum wage in Portugal is 485 euro(after taxes), the average wage was falling well below 800 in 2012. There's 10 countries in the EU which have minimum wages below the 400 euro mark, and out of the countries that have minimum wage set only 6 have over 1000.(7 now with Germany I guess) * Despite my sarcasm, I entirely believe that out there 1000 euro is not that great, but a good chunk of Europe is struggling with far less, and the value Schultz throws in the air, in the middle of his "We have to regain the trust of the average euro-citizen" routine does not portray the reality of the euro-crisis and the massive inequality in Europe. *http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tps00155
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May 11, 2014 10:25
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QuantumCrayons posted:Is the cost of living a more general level across the EU because of the open trade, or could places like those where it's under €400 have a lower CoL to offset the low income? Can only speak for Portugal here, but no. Costs of living have never stopped increasing since Portugal joined the euro(gotta catch up with the EU average) and for a time so were wages, but they hit a wall around '06, and have been cut twice since '11 and taxes have been massively increased.(VAT is 23,25% here) Our minimum wage is worth less today than it was 40 years ago. Quality of life has also decreased. Lisbon and the coastline of the Algarve can get crazy expensive, with the rest of the country not far behind. However living in Lisbon you can probably find some kind job and have access to various quality services(hospitals, schools, etc). The rest of the country, including the Algarve, is not so lucky. Living in a city in the interior you won't find a job, there's a good chance that the nearest hospital doesn't have ambulances and only minimum staff(and that is if you have a nearer hospital/health centre), your schools are understaffed and can't offer the full curriculum, worse, their walls and roofs are filled with poison, also the local court has closed down, so has the local tax department, and the post office will follow suit. I'm going to hazard a guess that the situation is similar in Eastern Europe countries that are in the Euro, or have their currency pegged to the Euro. CoL going up, with stagnant wages.
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May 11, 2014 11:48
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NihilismNow posted:It is almost as if Portugal/Greece and Germany shouldn't be in the same economical union because their societies and economies are nothing alike. Agreed. Kick Germany out of the Euro.
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May 12, 2014 20:58
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NihilismNow posted:Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and Germany form a new euro, you can keep the old one. Get the Czech Republic and Poland on that scheme why won't you.
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May 12, 2014 21:17
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I'm actually okay with compulsory voting, and I wish we had a Portuguese Voteman. Especially considering who doesn't vote around here. The other day they were doing a vox pop in Fatima, asking the pilgrims if they were going to vote, and there was a dumb old woman saying "I'm not voting again. I'm done with elections!". You should know better you old hag. 
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May 14, 2014 00:07
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KoldPT posted:75% abstention rates incoming. Urg. This was already terrible during the municipals, it became worse when PS and PSD-CDS tried to change the law to reduce the fair coverage to just parliamentary parties, and added a line to have the State decide what is kosher and isn't to be debated, giving the media the proper excuse they were looking to never cover an election again. It's like they benefit from it or something.
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May 14, 2014 00:38
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Phlegmish posted:I haven't heard him speak in English yet, but somehow it doesn't surprise me at all that he would have a massive Flemish accent. I think if you're going for an important international position, you should at least make an effort to adopt a neutral accent. Being a boomer is no excuse. This is dumb and irrelevant. As long as someone isn't doing a José Socrates, he can speak with whatever silly accent he has. I can't believe this, but I'm agreeing with the weirdo French Euronews commentators* in that these debates shouldn't have been done in English. None of the candidates were native-English speakers, and only Keller and Schultz were at ease to not be constantly tripping. Tsipras outright refused to, and Juncker did the same for the last debate. Nothing was really gained from having them speaking in English, other than make the whole affair more pointless than already was. The whole thing was done, as it's said in Portuguese, para Inglês ver.("for English to see" No real effect) Brussels is crawling with professional translators get a bunch of them and simply deal with it. And for the internet you could even have streams dedicated to each EU language. *Though I disagree with them on the notion that it's because "England doesn't like EU, so why we speak English?" Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 10:26 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 10:15
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LemonDrizzle posted:Lingua anglica motherfuckers. De Gaulle was right. 
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May 19, 2014 12:00
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KoldPT posted:Are they not national elections anywhere? It's quite something that in Portugal only one party has presented a proper campaign that is focused on European issues, many of which should be concern for national politics.(Namely that free trade deal with the USA, which is a bag of poo poo) And it's a party not even of the Portuguese parliament floor. BE and CDU have been utter disappointments. I expected that much from BE, but CDU has also been a real downer. It's just crap about the National TROIKA and clean exits from the international TROIKA, at their rallies and gatherings. Occasional something about fishing and CAP, and if Sousa-Ferreira are feeling at home, it's about leaving the Euro. Pointless.
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May 20, 2014 13:40
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KoldPT posted:edit: PDA's the only portuguese party supporting Verhofstadt, too. LIVRE's guys can support whoever they want from Schulz/Keller/Tsipras, and PCP is probably abstaining. I did not know that the Isle Fascists were going to bed with the euro-liberals, headlined by a former paper-socialist. The world is crazy I tell you. I think LIVRE is by far the more interesting party to come out of this race, but I still have my doubts on Tavares.(With the man himself not the party) That his candidates have freedom of choice is one thing, that they have options is another. S&D seems to be too much Establishment for the LIVRE folk, and I don't know if people on the GUE/NGL want Tavares snooping around again. I still believe that the Greens will be their natural home, but you know, politics. v vFor Marinho Pinto, I agree with Daniel Oliveira when he calls him a new "Fernando Nobre". Pinto is just a useless opportunist looking for the spotlight and cheap fame. But I still want to see him start a war in the Atlantic so the Americans will keep investing in naval bases on the Azores. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 15:03 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 15:01
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Congratulations to Madame Christine Lagarde for her new job as President of the European Commission. http://www.euractiv.com/sections/eu-elections-2014/diplomats-no-matter-who-wins-eu-elections-favourite-lagarde-302251
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May 21, 2014 12:25
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Ardennes posted:Will she have to quit her job at the IMF or maybe should could do both jobs from the same office? There is an overlap, so I guess it's more of a title change than job.
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May 21, 2014 15:18
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Oh France  http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/21/jean-marie-le-pen-ebola-population-explosion-europe-immigration
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May 21, 2014 16:28
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On the last euro-thread, I posted the story of various Portuguese emigrants in France, that don't hold double nationality, running for public office under the FN, with none of them finding anything odd flying under the banner of a party that doesn't want non-nationals running for elections. But mainly the deal is Moslems/Slavs everywhere ruining Christian/western values. There's very little of it in Portugal, but that's more because nobody is coming into Portugal(Other than rich Chinese hunted by Interpol), and that everyone wants to leave it, with the government having no clue on how to stop the bleeding of demographics.(Which are tanking, hard) LemonDrizzle posted:"Nobody outside of Brussels knows who the parliament's candidates are or actually gives a poo poo about who gets the job, do they? Right, we'll just nominate whoever we like and none of the voters will know the difference." "The European electorate is voting for euro-sceptics so there is not much choice if we want to save the European project", this is paraphrasing a Portuguese commentator, a former minister of finance from the Zé Manel Barroso days, when asked what he thinks of Angela Merkel already preparing the Commission without consulting the rest of the Union. If someone raises noise over an outsider being appointed, they are simply going to dump this back on the electorate who didn't show up, or voted for the wrong people that made the Euro-Parliament impossible to work with. In reality, we shouldn't except much from Herman Van Rompuy who never hid that he disliked this idea for assigning the Commission, nor from Merkel who probably doesn't want to deal with an active Commissioner running around.
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May 21, 2014 23:47
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Cat Mattress posted:What a wonderful logic. It's probably assurance that it will never get down to that point. Nationalists and Euro-sceptics always do good in these elections, but they never manage to dcarry it over to the national. The closest so far has been FN under Marine Le Penn, but she is yet to translate that over a major election. There's also analysts and political commentators reassuring everybody that the euro-sceptics might do well, but will fail to unite on the Euro-Parliament(like the article posted by the OP), not to mention that it's these parties/people that have the worse track records of appearances and participation, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of them aren't easily bought. Some people in Portugal are hoping that the rise of euro-sceptics and nationalists will give the EU a big scare, so it notices that things are not going so well, but this seems to be putting a lot of faith that people like Marine Le Penn are the real deal, and not just riding the bandwagon rhetoric. Considering she can't seem to shut up her ancient father about spraying ebola on immigrants and black people, she will probably collapse when the French presidential elections come around, and the French Right don't present a clown like Sarkozy. I think the EU could survive without the UK(not so sure if the other way is true), mainly cause the UK has allowed itself to always be perceived as an outsider from the Euro-politics, not to mention the only EU country actually talking about referendums and poo poo, and of course the way the UK joined in the first place. I could see a bunch of well spoken EU politicians spinning it around in their favour. Crocodile tears would be shed, but no one in Frankfurt would be bothered by no longer having London around, and of course, Brussels get's rid of a constant source of pain with a country who always wanted to be different from the others without wanting to be part of things. But regardless, after these elections the EU has planned a bunch of legislation to reinforce itself as a political and federal force, a lot of it including an anti-corruption task force with far reaching powers, more power to the Euro-Court, an attorney general at the European level, and the most surprising thing to come out of the Commission debates, was that the 5 major parliament wings(as represented by the candidates) were all in favour of an European army. As the years pass by, walking out of the EU will stop being a real option, much like an American state can't secede even though it's a "State Right". Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 01:45 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 01:42
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Phlegmish posted:I looked it up and Portugal's population has been declining since 2009, but not by a huge amount. People tend to forget that the Western European country facing the biggest demographic crisis is Germany. Germany's demographic crisis while worrying is also slow and completely predictable. It's bad, but it's not being as violent or sudden as that of Portugal. Not to mention Germany is still a good place to live in and find work, while the same can't be said for Portugal. Germany's economy isn't in complete meltdown, nor is Merkel telling unemployed Germans that their solution is to leave Germany. The Portuguese economy is melting down, and our Prime Minister did tell us to leave the country. What took a decade for Japan to achieve with it's shrinking active population, Portugal did it in less than 4 years.(In 2007 the difference between deaths and births was 1500, in 2007 it was "a natural decline", in 2011 the difference is already 6000, in 2011 is free falling.) Some more fun and in depth links, in English and with charts: http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-great-portuguese-hollowing-out/ http://www.economonitor.com/edwardh...apanese-problem Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 12:01 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 11:57
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Xoidanor posted:Then why just not hold the vote on sunday? Am I missing something obvious here? Because of British and Dutch election laws, but mostly because they hate the working class so they hold elections on a week day.
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May 22, 2014 20:23
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Carbon dioxide posted:I can think of a few reasons why voting is on a weekday instead of a Sunday. One, probably the main reason, is a rather archaic argument I'd expect certain groups of Christians to bring up: it's not allowed to do any kind of work on a Sunday, Sunday's are for sitting at home reading the bible and going to church. Voting is considered work and it's evil to do this in Sunday. I thought protestant work ethic was a way out of this.
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May 22, 2014 23:33
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So far in Portugal the turn out has been a dazzling 12%. I was the third person voting in my table at midday. There's also several boycotts in various districts. Good job everyone.
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May 25, 2014 13:22
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Kurtofan posted:I don't understand why France didn't couple its local elections with the European ones, they happened like a month ago. Because it makes an already unpopular election, into an irrelevant one. The only thing you would achieve would be parties talking even less about euro-issues as for them, local elections are worth more effort, and getting people confused as to what it's being talked about.
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May 25, 2014 19:34
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Fresh from Portugal: PS(centre-Left sell outs) 32-36% (8-9 dudes and dudettes) Aliança Portugal(Neo-Liberal trash) 25-29%(7-8 dudes and dudettes) CDU(Communists and Greens) 11-13%(3 dudes and dudettes) MPT(Undercover fascists) 6-8%(1-2 dudes and dudettes) BE(Leftists soon to be dead) 4-6%(1 dudette) 63-66% abstention rate. Marinho Pinto has managed one dude.  edit: PS is claiming massive win. Defeat for the right, even though they might put in the same amount of people in the Euro-Parliament. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 20:12 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 20:08
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Luigi Thirty posted:I'm American and I don't pretend to understand European politics. Does that mean France is represented in the EU by Not Nazis We Swear? Don't you have a "socialist" leader? How does that work? This is for the European Parliament, meaning parties are running for seats, with each country having a number of seats proportional to their population. France has 74 seats available. By winning FN, with their projected 25%, means they will get 20 seats and are the French party with most representation on the euro-parliament. Though if FN can actually achieve anything is another matter entirely, they need to get along with other anti-EU parties, cause alone, even with 20 people, they can't do poo poo to change Euro politics. IceAgeComing posted:Wait: I thought that results weren't allowed to be released until 10BST? Projection polls! Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 20:36
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Phlegmish posted:Is the referendum going ahead? Because this sounds like good news for the separatists. The regional government in Catalonia is still talking about holding it this winter, but the government in Madrid blocked it and already said no such thing will happen. So who knows.
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May 26, 2014 00:35
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KoldPT posted:Ok, here's my day after dissection, with a clearer head and after reading some stuff: There's still four seats to allocate, one of which might go CDU or MPT way. Also gently caress BE. I voted for them 5 years go, my first election year, and while Marisa Matias is a cool cat that party deserves to get burned to the ground. They got into their silly skulls they were a real leftist party like PCP. Except they forgot that PCP was still around, and PCP have been clowning BE for the past elections.
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May 26, 2014 13:50
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Maybe next year.
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I think the rest of Europe should follow Portugal's example on how to fix immigration problems, without ever do anything directly to it. Apply some hard hitting, but completely fair, austerity on your economy and soon enough nobody will want to move into your dumb country. Those waves of Moslems will have no other choice than going somewhere else, like Brazil or Angola, and we get to keep Europe pure and our skylines minaret free. Win win I say.
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May 26, 2014 22:58
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YF-23 posted:Note that this does not work when yours is a gateway country to the EU such as Greece. So was Portugal. Morocco, Luso-African countries, South America, India, China, and during the early '00 Eastern Europeans, especially from the Ukraine. There was a boom at the turn of the century, and for a brief window Portugal(and Spain) had inverted the tendency of being a nation of emigrants, into a nation of immigrants. The crisis stopped that, with many of those immigrants returning home, and with Portugal going back to it's number one export: Portuguese.
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May 26, 2014 23:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Not anything like Greece I don't think? Like 90% of immigrants to the EU pass through (or end up in) Greece don't they? I seriously doubt it's 90%, or any close to that number. The main problem Greece has, that Portugal, Spain, and Italy don't have, is sharing a border with non-EU countries which makes illegal immigration easier. But here again, I will wager that most of these immigrants probably don't want to stay in Greece, they want to make their way into Germany/France/UK/Scandinavia. So really when all of Europe is misery from west to east, Greece will be like the exit door of the EU. But Portugal(and Spain) was a gateway to Europe, especially for the Lusophone world, and we had a decent pull in India and China. Now all those Brazilians are going back to Brazil, which frankly says a lot about the conditions in Portugal. Also bonus picture:  (Tourist spot from 1907)
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May 27, 2014 00:23
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Randler posted:HDI trends by country (among other things), I have yet to figure out how to work with UNDP's open data structure, so no unified graph of all European trends. What those trend graphs show is that over the last thirty years the quality of life as measured by the HDI has improved in the European countries with the EU crisis not being the enourmous dent one might expect. (links in Portuguese, most of them come from the National Institute of Statistics) Despite what the IMF said, inequality has continued to rise even with austerity. Though medium wages have approached equality, the gap between rich and poor has continued to increase. Material deprivation has also increased. Our poverty risk levels have been going in reverse. With poverty risk being at it's highest level since 2005. Our minimum wage is also worth less today than it was 40 years ago. (Early data from the Inquiry of Life Conditions and Income and other from the National Institute of Statistics) One in five Portuguese are at risk of poverty, with children being the biggest group at risk. In 2009 the population at the risk of poverty was 17,9, in 2012 was 24,7%, with the rate of poverty for those younger than 18 going up from 26,1 in 2011 to 30,9%. Our economic recovery is also a massive sham. An oil refinery in Sines closed down for maintenance for a month and our GDP for that trimester shrunk 0.7 immediately. In fact the entire reason our exports went up, the silver lining of prime minister Pedro Passos Coelho, is that oil refinery, which was built during the last government, and only came up two years ago. Not to mention our interest rates for 5 and 10 years are entirely dependant on the ECB doing something in the future. Considering the ever increasing threat of an eurozone wide deflation, Draghi might actually do something so there's that. And of course, all that population leaking and active population shrinking.(link in English!) There's still more. Most people no longer believe they are going to get pensions. Our national health service is at breaking point with lack of staff and equipment, with a lot of the doctors and nurses trained in Portugal being poached by England.(Not even doctor is assured work here) Many teachers are dropping out of their professions due to the lack of conditions and decent salaries. Courts, posts offices, and health care centres are all closing down in the interior of the country, EU funds for road maintenance and extensions are over leaving a lot of infrastructure of the interior in disrepair. Though it will take a few years to get a complete picture, it's not crazy to say that 3 years after TROIKA, Portugal is in a worse state than it was before, and it's not going to get any better soon. There exists several signs, like increase in life expectancy, that distort reality and serve to say "it's not that bad!", not to mention most cost and quality of life are measured through cities, hiding the ugly interior that nobody wants to talk about.(In some places of the country people didn't go voting cause the closest vote booth was 12km away.) That East Germany is no longer a shithole like Torranor says is pretty good, but we have run up again into Schultz "struggling with 1000 euro" issue to what's true in a part of Europe is not true in others. That quality of life increased in Portugal is undeniable, but even that graph, that has almost half of the measures n/a and stops in 2010, shows that Portugal hit a roof around 2005. I'm going to say once the last years start to be accounted you going to find a decrease. Portugal is going through a serious risk of having the last 40 yeas being slowly and quietly rolled back, and we can forget about catching up with the average in the European Union in many sectors for the foreseeable future.
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May 27, 2014 12:25
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