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Mans posted:gently caress this parliament charade, if a national parliament is already composed of a healthy dose of idiocy and corruption i'm sure the solution is an exterior parliament with even wealthier idiots that play pretend politics. Don't forget the higher election threshold so no one outside the established political parties has a chance. The only real "choice" you have is to vote for the pro austerity/federalisation crowd or the fascists. How about i don't legitimise your fake democracy with a symbolic vote instead? If eurosceptics are the big winners that is fine with me. But why do they have to be literal fascists. Shouldn't the european parliament be elected europe wide, not with the EP's elected by country as it is now? I find this very problematic. In my own country new parties are formed and abolished all the time, and they have real influence on parliament. In europe such a thing can not happen and i can choose from a handful of parties who have a chance to make the parliament who are pretty much all pro europe and pro further integration. e: I do wish i could cast a "Not this guy" vote for the "President". Anyone but Guy Verhofstad. gently caress that guy forever.
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Apr 14, 2014 16:16
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Junior G-man posted:
Shouldn't it make your job easier? If they abstain from voting all the time you won' t have to
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Apr 28, 2014 11:43
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of having more of these clowns to deal with come september.
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Phlegmish posted:The EU has a serious democratic deficit, but the example you're using doesn't make much sense. By the same logic, any country with electoral districts (i.e. almost every democracy in the world except for the Netherlands, Italy and Israel) is actually non-democratic. But electoral districts are bad for democracy? It artificially limits the "choice" of the people by imposing artificial barriers to entry for new political parties. If some hypothetical party got 1% of the vote in every european country under the current system they would end up with 0 seats where clearly they should end up with 7 or 8 seats. A district system is better than nothing, but it is not very democratic. Just like census suffrage is better than straight up feudalism, but far from ideal.
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May 1, 2014 18:40
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It is almost as if Portugal/Greece and Germany shouldn't be in the same economical union because their societies and economies are nothing alike.
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May 12, 2014 20:39
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Electronico6 posted:Agreed. Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and Germany form a new euro, you can keep the old one.
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May 12, 2014 21:05
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KoldPT posted:75% abstention rates incoming. But even if you could you can't vote for them because you live in the wrong country.
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May 14, 2014 07:24
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The fine for not voting in Belgium is €5-10, considering the time it takes to vote that is a fair tradeoff. And if i am reading this correctly after 4 times you don't have to vote again for another 10 years. So it is a extra tax of about 20 euro a year to not have to vote (second, third and fourth fines are higher), hardly significant.
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May 14, 2014 17:21
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If it is based on exit polls PVV may yet increase in the final tally. A lot of "decent" people may not want to acknowledge they vote PVV even if exit polls are supposed to be anonymous. This has happened in previous elections. NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 17:44
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Junior G-man posted:poo poo-that-wont-happen.txt. But don't forget to vote so lobbyists can continue to make policy. Your vote matters. Really.
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May 26, 2014 20:22
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Electronico6 posted:Alpe d'huzes seems to me a charity which I don't find relevant. Actually not even a charity but some publicity stunt where they pretend to be a charity but the guy who thought it up billed hundreds of thousands of euros in consultancy fees to the "charity". So yeah politics as usual.
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May 29, 2014 17:49
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Mans posted:Non-German people aren't dead brain retards who can't figure out how to build lightbulbs or sofas. We used to have industry, once. Leica cameras, which are pretty much the pinnacle of ~fine German craftmanship~. Are actually partially made in Portugal and exported to Germany to be assembled and engraved "Made in Germany" (because who would buy a Portugese camera for $7k).
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Jun 6, 2014 18:08
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ronya posted:the parts that matter are the lenses, surely The ones that are also made in Portugal?
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Jun 6, 2014 20:04
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Pretty funny everyone is so deeply in debt that a mere 0.6% inflation is not enough for us. We need more if we are to ever
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Jun 8, 2014 18:14
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CSM posted:Uhm, 0,6% is considered extremely low inflation... Did i say otherwise? High inflation is desired at the moment because goverments/consumers need to inflate their way out of this crushing debt so a mere 0.6 won't cut it.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:31
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Geert Wilders is going to sue the EU since it is no fair he can't be both in Dutch Parliament and the EU parliament. Reminder that he was also elected councilman for the city of the Hague but stopped after a few weeks due to scheduling difficulties. No matter, i'm sure being a MEP is much less difficult than councilman for a medium sized town.
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Jun 11, 2014 16:06
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Glah posted:Thankfully no one is willing to include facists (Golden Dawn, Jobbik, NPD) in their group so at least they will be marginalized. How is the PVV not fascist? Not as a joking hyperbole but seriously. The party is run like a fascist party and its political points are also pretty close to what we would think of as a fascist platform. They are not golden dawn bad but that is just because the Netherlands is a more functional state than Greece and you can't afford to be associated with street violence like that, it is counter productive. But politically i see no reason not to call them fascist.
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Jun 12, 2014 16:09
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Glah posted:As far as I can tell PVV is economically very neoliberal party, not third positionist. They are nationalist but they haven't built up this mythological narrative or cultural ethos about blood and soil or whatever that needs to be cherished and protected against external and internal enemies with any means necessary. Also as far as I can tell, they believe in democratic and parliamentary principles meaning that they aren't a revolutionary party seeking to overthrow what facists see as corrupt liberal democratic order. They do not straight up want to overthrow democratic order but have shown a interest in changing it to something that fits them better. Wants to abolish the senate, half the number of seats in parliament, introduce a elected prime minister. They want to serious limit the independence of judges as well. So they do want to limit the influence of democratic institutions that slow or limit their power. Polling under PVV voters indicated 2/3's consider their party program more important than the constitution. Even the hints at a desire to use violence are there if you look close enough (Wilders claiming rioters should be shot in the knee, proposing to introduce a new type of "city commandos" to have parking attendants fight crime).
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Jun 12, 2014 22:37
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Orange Devil posted:Don't forget that Wilders has suggested changes the constitution, multiple times if memory serves. Right, in addition to the "restructering" of parliament which would require constitutional changes he also wants to abolish Article 1 ("All persons in the Netherlands shall be treated equally in equal circumstances. Discrimination on the grounds of religion, belief, political opinion, race or sex or on any other grounds whatsoever shall not be permitted.").
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Jun 13, 2014 09:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:At least here in Denmark, roughly half the total value of housing debt is in the form of interest-only loans. Basically, a bunch of people effectively rent their house from the bank, and paid twice the current value of their house for the opportunity. Should the European economy ever recover, the ECB's desire to keep inflation low will result in an increase in the interest, meaning an increase in "rent" which is unlikely to be matched by greater pay. Only if you have a completely flexible mortage rate. Which is not very smart. Even if you don't pay down the principal on your mortage it is still possible to lock the rates for 20 years. Might be hard to offload your house for what you paid for it if mortage rates are 10% but your "rent" won't necessarily increase.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:41
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Didn't they receive the money because the EU wanted them to keep servicing their debt so it didn't trigger a bankrupcy of certain banks and a whole bunch of credit default swaps and who knows what. I don't see how "90% went into servicing old debt" is even controversial. Greece received new low interest loans to pay off/service old expensive loans. Which is not as much fun as receiving a bunch of free money to retire at 50 and organise sporting events you can't afford but a lot better than the bankrupcy of Greece, thrown out of the common currency union and its possesions outside Greece confiscated and almost immediate fuel and food shortages. The north can't/won't stimulate itself out of the forever recession, did anyone really expect them to start a stimulus program in Greece? E: The interest rates Greece is paying are one hell of a carrot already, there is no way they would ever have access to such rates themselves (or really any money or goods) had they not been bailed out. They were running a huge deficit even during the good times, there was simply no way the Greek way of life could have been sustained. Did austerity also cause the 5%+ deficit during 2001-2007 ? NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 20:44
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Lagotto posted:We aren't allowed to (3% decifit target) because we are stuck in a completely broken monetary union, whose only hope for survival is kicking out Greece. I'd say go for a break up anyways. I know and i don't disagree with you. That is why it is so mind boggling to think that people think a stimulus program paid by the north for Greece is a thing that could realistically happen while the north had to make hard cuts itself and hasn't seen significant growth in 7 years. As it is the Greek bailouts where highly unpopular and barely made it through several national parliaments.
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Feb 12, 2015 21:08
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icantfindaname posted:
Because nations loaning to other sovereign nations is a normal thing that usually happens? You realise Germany and friends have to loan the money to be able to loan it to Greece and the only reason Greece can't get a loan itself it because it has shown itself to be a unreliable debtor time and time again (as the EU is now finding out)? The problem with loaning more to Greece is that Greece is going to decide they don't want to pay and then the remaining EU countries are on the hook for hundreds of billions of euro. Your entire post is like something out of fantasy where you have to create the evil German overlords who just want the EU to burn for no reason. It is also somewhat out of date since QE started and the euro has been devalueing. Here in reality there are no easy solutions. QE and devalueing in a very real sense is stealing from those who have savings or possesions. I understand this is cool with most of the people who have nothing but debt but it is wrong to paint it as if there are no costs to this solution and the only reason it hasn't been done is because those evil Germans.
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Feb 14, 2015 12:09
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V. Illych L. posted:no taxation is for scrubs The fact you post on this paid message board suggests that you are in the global top 10% and will probably be eaten  .
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Feb 14, 2015 12:52
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V. Illych L. posted:I don't think anyone outside of the Netherlands cares tbh, this Ukraine deal is likely going to increase her "statesman" image. Most people that matter inside don't care either.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:52
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Ardennes posted:I think it is way too kind to the Germans, Germany ultimately wanted a monetary union that created a relatively protected market for their goods after the overvalued Mark of the 1990s. They wanted this union to be as a large as possible, and if anything have relatively weak competition in it, so it would have an comparative advantage. Again with the evil Germany fantasy. Look up the export figures for Germany. The periphery is not that important to German exports. As pointed out the euro was forced on Germany. It is not some evil scheme to drain the Greeks and Portugese who matter gently caress all to German exports. The only southern country that remotely matters to German exports is Italy and no one is talking about cutting Italy loose.
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Feb 15, 2015 10:56
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icantfindaname posted:The real solution, as has been posted many times, is to just federalize the continent and merge the German and Greek pensions, education, and healthcare systems This is a solution that is totally realistical and would not result in revolutions in the countries that did take care of business and do the right thing. What exactly does the North get out of this arrangement? Besides, we would all just end up with Greek-like standard of living since Eastern europe would also be entitled to those sweet handouts (but they work to improve their lot in life instead of waiting for a handout like the Greeks).
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Feb 16, 2015 19:23
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YF-23 posted:Austerity has literally lead to people dying, either by pushing them so far they kill themselves or through other means (burning wood because they can't afford proper heating and getting poisoned because of it for instance - you hear stories like this every winter for the past 2-3 years). You may be paying attention to them now but every country has a number of carbon monoxide deaths every year. People can now spin it as a good yarn "look what austerity has wrought" but has there really been a increase? Even filthy rich countries have people dying from malfunctioning central heating units every year. Suicide happens in every country and according to the OECD Greek suicides are actually down since the 1990's by several percentage points and already enjoy one of the lowest suicide rates in the developed world. It may seem like austerity is killing people but really it sounds more like twisted reporting.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:25
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Nintendo Kid posted:Central heating units that aren't designed for burning wood, chief. Point is that heating related mishaps happen all the time. Was there really no one burning wood or coal for heat in Greece before 2010? I find it hard to believe.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:35
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YF-23 posted:Austerity in Greece caused more than 500 male suicides, say researchers quote:551 men killed themselves "solely because of fiscal austerity" between 2009 and 2010, said the paper's co-author Nikolaos Antonakakis. This seems like a impartial paper. So he set out to prove austerity caused suicide and he proved austerity caused suicide. Amazing.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:42
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Pesmerga posted:Germany and Greece have different economic models, with focuses on different forms of production. Why is a Greece primarily a agrarian economy? Has anyone told them this is a pretty bad idea in the 21st century? Why has Greece never bothered to build up industrial capacity? Appearently they didn't invest in industrial capacity before austerity when they were able to invest and now are reliant on olive oil and pine flavoured wine. They may not be a Germany but they aren't even a Austria or a Belgium with comparable population, so i don't buy the economies of scale argument. By different area of expertise do you mean the Greeks are uneducated? Where is the Greek Bosch, BMW, Siemens or even SAP? Even though the price of olive oil has spiked i doubt staying a agricultural society is going to help.
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Feb 19, 2015 22:32
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V. Illych L. posted:military dictatorships arent big on industrialisation, and when you dont root out the corrupt elites once said dictatorship finally falls you have a useless economy Really? I thought they were all about building up the MIC. Have to keep the military happy with new toys.
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Feb 19, 2015 22:39
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The real problem is how is Germany going to occupy Greek industrial areas to force payment if there are none?
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Feb 21, 2015 17:43
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Ardennes posted:
Nice try to find another master plot by Germany but most of western european demographics look like that and it is no big secret. Not limited to the Northern countries either. Italy has at least as big a problem as Germany. I know here in the Netherlands politicians have been sounding the alarm over the aging population for the past 15-20 years. Some estimation i read 1 in 8 people will have to work in healthcare at the peak and there will only be 2,5 working people per retired person. There is even a word for the phenomenon "Vergrijzing" (Graying). NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 19:50
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Banish all foreign cars from Greece. Only Greek domestic cars will be allowed from now on.
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Feb 27, 2015 19:45
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Greece has been illegally occupying Ottoman lands for over a century. As a representative of the central powers Germany should demand return of all Greek territory to Turkey as the heir to the Ottoman claim. And with that Grexit arranged and no need for a new Drachma.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:45
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Or maybe they remember how some EU members declared them terrorists and seized their assets over a monetary issue and would have their people indebted for generations if they had their way. Who wouldn't want to join this merry union that is not a race to the bottom at all.
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Mar 12, 2015 20:42
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The really important thing is: How many kitchens does he have?
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Mar 13, 2015 18:28
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YF-23 posted:You must repair your economy before you have access to the basic tools with which to repair your economy! But hey the euro lost 35% of its value in a few weeks. With such a massive devalueing long wished for by the southern countries Greece is certainly competetive again and now flooded with orders from China and the US for its many products?
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Mar 15, 2015 12:01
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Lagotto posted:A default in 2010 would have mostly been giving the finger to Greeks. Far preferable to the current situation though, so I agree that that is what should have been done. Default Greece and prop up our own banks where necesarry. This seems like a obvious choice now but was it really known what credit default swaps would have been triggered by a Greek default back then? It is like the American institutions decision to let Lehman fall, they probably wouldn't have done that if they knew what it would cause. I can see institutions not willing to take the chance.
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Mar 19, 2015 11:42
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Food banks/Breadlines where unheard of in the Netherlands 15 years ago. Now they are necessary for hundreds of thousands of people to survive because at one point we decided that having a social safety net is for losers and it should be slashed to the bone. Food banks are about the only part of the economy that show strong growth, up to +30% year on year for the past 3 years.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:38
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