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Requesting this image be added to the OP: Also we could use a new thread title, I suggest "Forget that, I say go for it." EDIT: Actually I guess the image could be considered a spoiler and some might go to the OP if they're interested in watching. Still think the thread title could use an update though. Jehde fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 00:16
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A lot of talk about Lester's death. I watched the finale again, and yeah, Lester definitely didn't die. They made a point of including a tease and then a small but clear scene letting you know he didn't die. I don't know why, exactly, but its there.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:41
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Jake Armitage posted:A lot of talk about Lester's death. I watched the finale again, and yeah, Lester definitely didn't die. They made a point of including a tease and then a small but clear scene letting you know he didn't die. I don't know why, exactly, but its there. What on earth are you talking about? Do you think Lester is cryogenically preserved in the lake or something? Do you also think that the guy that Wrench and Numbers dumped into the lake is still just fine? He's pretty clearly dead unless you think he's secretly half harp seal or something.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:44
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They showed only his hat at the end, and then included a scene where Molly says "well keep looking and let me know what the divers turn up." What else is the point of those two things? This show wasn't about lazy writing. If he's dead, its unambiguous. That scene is, "yep we pulled him outta the lake, frozen solid as a popsicle, you betcha". He escaped the same way Malvo escaped from the basement in episode 1. I'm not saying it makes sense, I'm saying they put it in there for you for some reason. Jake Armitage fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 00:45
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Jake Armitage posted:They showed only his hat at the end, and then included a scene where Molly says "well keep looking and let me know what the divers turn up." What else is the point of those two things? Yeah, they show his hat floating in the ice hole that he just visibly dropped into.  The hat part struck me as more of a visual reference to the fish poster from his basement. As for that Molly line, maybe it's more to do with the unexpectedly mundane way that he was taken out, aka not by Molly at all? The creator talked about subverting expectations by not having her catch Malvo in the end, and of her not being able to go to Duluth when they had Malvo in custody earlier, it seems to be along those lines. Edit: Along these lines: quote:AVC: We never do get that scene where Molly confronts or even talks to Malvo. She sees him once in the blizzard, and then she sees him as a corpse. Why did you make that decision? They're talking about Malvo there, but I feel like her not getting closure on Lester onscreen is supposed to be a similar taste of that realism, not a sign that he somehow, impossibly, survived. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 00:50
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Jake Armitage posted:They showed only his hat at the end, and then included a scene where Molly says "well keep looking and let me know what the divers turn up." What else is the point of those two things? This show wasn't about lazy writing. You're doing CineD wrong.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:54
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Please don't make this Jesse and Gale all over again.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:00
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Unrelated note, did anybody else notice that the pharmacist that Lester almost buys unguent from in an earlier episode has the last name Creech? As in, Mr. Creech, the bandaged guy that Lester later swaps places with?  It's just a weird, disconnected detail, I don't know if there's anything to read into it. Maybe this pharmacist had a really bad time between episodes. Haha.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:04
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hcreight posted:Please don't make this Jesse and Gale all over again. Heh, that's what I was thinking.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:07
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A hat can float in a lake even if it's not attached to a head. I don't think it's meant to imply Lester survived at all. There is no way he would crawl out of that hole in a freezing cold lake and not die of hypothermia without help. If he got help, he would have also been arrested. It's also a far more poetic ending than if he's alive.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:08
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Jake Armitage posted:They showed only his hat at the end, and then included a scene where Molly says "well keep looking and let me know what the divers turn up." What else is the point of those two things? This show wasn't about lazy writing. Nah he died dude.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:28
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Can someone remind me of the riddle that Gus says he solved? I'm drawing a blank.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:29
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Mr. Clark2 posted:Can someone remind me of the riddle that Gus says he solved? I'm drawing a blank. It was the "Shades of Green" riddle. Malvo asked him why humans (or maybe it was 'mammals') can see more shades of green than any other color. The answer is that it's a throwback from the days when we weren't the top of the food chain - being able to discern what doesn't belong in the forest increases your chance of survival, since you can see the predators more easily. I think the moral of it was that he's able to get away with what he does because he's a predator and humans don't want to believe they *need* that skill anymore. The show's creator seems to agree: "Before men had homes and they lived in the wilderness, you had to be able to spot the predators. There are so many shades of green in nature that the human eye developed to be able to see them all. But for Gus, what it meant was you're either predator or you're prey. In that moment, Malvo was telling Gus, 'The reason that I can come in here and lie and walk out the front door is because I'm a predator and you're not.'" https://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/yahoo-tv/fargo-finale-callbacks-232811663.html BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 01:31
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Its about Lester and Malvo's story here. You understand Gus and Molly' story, but there is an arc for Lester and Malvo here as well. Malvo's story ends when he sees the wolf, not when Gus shoots him. That shooting was the end of Gus' story. Malvo's story is about a seemingly supernatural force creating another in his own image, and ultimately being destroyed by his own creation. The wolf becomes the Rabbit. It ends when he realizes he's the rabbit. Lester's story is about the cabbage becoming the wolf. We watched 9 episodes of Malvo doing plausible but highly unlikely things and flat out being called a demon in episode 7 or so. This thread is basically 40 pages of discussion about it. Lester did nothing supernatural. Its all rabbit level poo poo starting in episode 2. In the finale, he takes down Malvo, who also starts doing rabbit level poo poo. He doesn't magically talk Gus out of killing him. He doesn't kill the car dealer. He steps right into a bear trap like an idiot -- a totally human mistake. Lester's story ends with his supernatural moment, after the death of Malvo. As the wolf, he doesn't follow the same rules anymore. Literally or figuratively, it doesn't matter, that's why the ambiguity is there. I know this is the forum that likes everything to be literal and real-world or its rejected, but a good writer doesn't write an ambiguous ending without a reason, just as a good writer references myth and legend even if it makes Tiny Brontosaurus rabidly angry. It doesn't matter really if literally lived, he could have dropped down into the abyss and gotten stuck between two rocks, or been eaten by the canadian sea monster. But the end of his story wasn't "he died". I'd say its just a theory but I think they kind of spelled it out for us. Jake Armitage fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 01:47
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A lot of DVRs must've cut the end off if you didn't see the scene where Lester bursts out from underneath the ice and flies into the skies.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:55
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Jake Armitage posted:They showed only his hat at the end, and then included a scene where Molly says "well keep looking and let me know what the divers turn up." What else is the point of those two things? This show wasn't about lazy writing. They have to wait to send out divers because the ice is too thin for them to just walk out and pull him up. They'd die just like Lester did.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:55
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Max22 posted:They have to wait to send out divers because the ice is too thin for them to just walk out and pull him up. They'd die just like Lester did. Right. Thank god they told us about that in the very last scene of the entire show otherwise none of it would have made any sense!
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Jun 21, 2014 01:58
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Jake Armitage posted:Right. Thank god they told us about that in the very last scene of the entire show otherwise none of it would have made any sense! God forbid they trust people to use common sense.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:59
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Jake Armitage posted:Right. Thank god they told us about that in the very last scene of the entire show otherwise none of it would have made any sense! Did you notice how they stopped following Lester when he headed onto the ice on foot? Yelling and shouting that it was too dangerous to go any farther?
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Jun 21, 2014 02:07
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Jake buddy if you think Lester survived that then you have never been ice fishing. or in Minnesota. he dead.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:27
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Max22 posted:They have to wait to send out divers because the ice is too thin for them to just walk out and pull him up. They'd die just like Lester did. Actually, this is not really how search and rescue operates on icy lakes. In fact, it is not necessary to wait for spring before sending out divers  To understand how this is possible, first we must understand how ice forms on a lake. This happens in cold weather (duh), but the important bit is that the ice forms first around the shore of the lake and works its way toward the middle as winter goes on. As the ice coverage of the water's surface increases, the older ice continues to thicken: this means that you can have a lake where the ice close to shore is thick enough to support a pickup truck, but way out in the middle it might be unsafe for even a person. So when a situation like in the show happens, a search and rescue team will make use of an area with safe ice in order to investigate the area with unsafe ice/open water. A hole is drilled in the area with thick ice, through which can be put robots or divers, which then can swim around underneath the ice to other areas of the lake.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:38
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Two things goons don't seem to get: things either being implied or things being ambigious, it seems. Lester is dead.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:39
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Soothing Vapors posted:Jake buddy if you think Lester survived that then you have never been ice fishing. or in Minnesota. he dead. He wasn't in Minnesota, he was in Montana.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:40
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Jake Armitage posted:He wasn't in Minnesota, he was in Montana. Does it really matter? He fell through the ice, he's dead.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:41
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Jake Armitage posted:He wasn't in Minnesota, he was in Montana. Which is even worse.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:41
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Justin Godscock posted:Two things goons don't seem to get: things either being implied or things being ambigious, it seems. Lester is dead. Malvo mysteriously escapes Lester's basement => Malvo is literally the devil.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:11
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The only thing that will make some people happy is if they have another season of Fargo where Lester's been reincarnated as the next Malvo, and a third 'prequel' season where Malvo was the Lester character being coerced into evil by *another* decent actor. WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS!!!
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Jun 21, 2014 03:15
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Lester is literally Lucifer, because both names begin with L. Literally does, too. 
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Jun 21, 2014 05:22
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Lester got his name from the writers because he is always Lesser than other people, like Sam Hess or Chaz. Nygaard spelled backward is Draagyn. Lesser Dragon. The Dragon is one of the names for Satan in the Bible (The dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns upon its heads etc. One of Satan as The Dragon's chief enemies is a pregnant woman who is removed from the conflict during the apocalypse, i.e. Molly (Molly is a pet form of the name Mary. The virgin Mary is not the same as the Woman of Revelation but rather she gives birth to the second coming of Christ) so Lester as a sort of continuation of Malvo makes sense as the future enemy of Molly, who will do things like spit rivers of water at her. Though I do believe Lester has the capacity to survive falling into the ice (being thoroughly prepared with full diving gear under his winter clothes and some sort of escape plan) I doubt that happened. Molly asking for the results from the divers was just to show how detached she had become from the situation and had moved on. Also it's basically the end of the story really. Lester is a complete sociopath but he's very tightly focused on doing things to benefit himself, whereas Malvo hurts others for fun. If Lester escaped to Canada he would just be trying to blend in somewhere, not roaming the country murdering people and causing mayhem every chance he got.
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Jun 21, 2014 06:42
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Lutha Mahtin posted:Actually, this is not really how search and rescue operates on icy lakes. In fact, it is not necessary to wait for spring before sending out divers I know man. It's only been a couple hours when they phone Molly, they're gonna have the divers by like tomorrow
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Jun 21, 2014 06:55
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What if Lester just fell to his hands and knees when the ice cracked, threw his hat into the hole, and slowly slid away from the cops and into Canada. They didn't see him because the danger sign was in the way.
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Jun 21, 2014 07:42
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Jake Armitage posted:Its about Lester and Malvo's story here. You understand Gus and Molly' story, but there is an arc for Lester and Malvo here as well. Hah, no. Lester is dead as hell. To be honest, it doesn't feel like there's anything left to continue the story with, even if Lester survived.
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Jun 21, 2014 08:58
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Metropolis posted:who will do things like spit rivers of water at her. Next season will be Lester spitting rivers of water at people. Spits a bunch of water on some dude's rug, spits so much water that he floods a valley and drowns some sheriff and his dog, spits water at a hotel fire, etc. A real treat for fans of the Coen brothers.
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Jun 21, 2014 13:01
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Gatekeeper posted:Next season will be Lester spitting rivers of water at people. Spits a bunch of water on some dude's rug, spits so much water that he floods a valley and drowns some sheriff and his dog, spits water at a hotel fire, etc. A real treat for fans of the Coen brothers. Honestly, I kind of want to see this now. Just 10 episodes of Martin Freeman blasting water from his mouth like some sort of human water hose. That's how he survived. He just drank the entire lake.
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Jun 21, 2014 13:23
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Even though Lester was not my favorite character Freeman's acting in the finale was amazing especially the purposeful "bad" acting and when he starts to feel the walls closing in on him in the interrogation room. I was worried for a moment he might attack Molly and her baby.
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Jun 21, 2014 14:02
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I don't know if it means anything, but it occurs to me that without this great evil upsetting the balance of Bemidji / Duluth / Fargo, Molly and Gus never meet.
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Jun 21, 2014 14:11
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Jake Armitage posted:But the end of his story wasn't "he died". Oh, hey, look what I just found in an interview: quote:ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Any time you don’t see a body you have to ask, is that person really dead? So I pose it to you, sir, for final confirmation. Is Lester Nygaard indeed deceased after falling through the ice? And in another interview, he talks about that phone call to Molly at the end being for realism's sake, similar to what I was saying before: quote:So he makes a break for the Canadian border and is caught by the border patrol. So he runs off for freedom and is done in by his own cleverness. Then Molly gets the call, which is more how it would be in real life than the version where she snaps the cuffs on at the end. So it might not be satisfying dramatically, in that we’re so trained that the hero catches the villain in the end. But I think there’s an emotional satisfaction to it because of where they end up as a family. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 14:32
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RedneckwithGuns posted:Is it ever expounded on how Gus manages to get away with effectively a vigilante killing? I mean, I'm glad he killed Malvo, but I'm surprised that nothing happened to him, let alone being talked about receiving a commendation for bravery. After killing the police chief and the two FBI agents Gus probably could have tied Malvo up and burned him to death and still get a commendation. Cops don't look too hard into officer/ex officer shootings, specially if one of their own got hurt. bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 14:38
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thexerox123 posted:Oh, hey, look what I just found in an interview: DEATH OF THE AUTHOR ZIZEK IS GOD
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Jun 21, 2014 14:54
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That was Roland Barthes, drat it. 
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Jun 21, 2014 15:44
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