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Mirthless posted:Telling people how much you make in my workplace will get you fired. They told us that on day 1, since we were hired in at a higher rate than other people doing essentially the same job. They were very up front about how they didn't want fairness in the workplace when it came to wages. The bolded part is extremely precious and a common tactic in enforcing the "oh god please don't talk about wages, whatever you do!" culture at companies. Nobody ever gets told, "You get paid less than other people. Deal with it. Don't mention it to anyone." Everyone gets told they're getting a good deal and make more than other people. That's how the nuts and bolts of the scam work. People doing hiring are reverse sales people. Usually sales is about making the prices go up while making the customer feel really good about it. Hiring is that process in reverse. The numbers are supposed to go down while the employee is pleased as punch about it. Recently there's a new twist on it, though! The job market sucks so much poo poo that a lot of people have the added pressure to settle negotiation on their wages prematurely because they have expensive hobbies like Eating and Paying Rent. edit: After re-reading your post I can't tell if you actually bought that line from your bosses. So I apologize if you saw through it, and I've misunderstood. I'll leave this here as a record of how stupid I am as a form of penance. ErIog fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 03:09
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wateroverfire posted:Second, employers will be able to point to their public pay scale and say "sorry, we can't bring you in above X because we have to maintain an appearance of fairness, etc, etc". So where before you could have bargained your way into a sweet deal, after that becomes impossible and all improvements become marginal. This is the same as other short-sighted anti-union arguments. "If there were a union then I couldn't be compensated properly for my special snowflake Randian superman work!" If you're really such a super star then there's a thing called a promotion that would justify raising your salary. Maybe instead of you being just one stellar salesman they promote you so that you can teach all the other salespeople how to be like you too. That seems pretty logical, doesn't it? It's really interesting how "bargaining your way into a sweet deal" usually involves being a white male, though. White males must be excellent at bargaining! Gee, that's kind of a paradox, though. The white males that are potential candidates seem to be doing some stellar bargaining while the white males that are hiring them seem to be uniquely terrible at the bargaining process. Somehow the white males doing the bargaining becoming masterful at it when facing a female or minority candidate for a job. I just can't figure it out! "Bargaining power" is a fantasy. It all comes down to how much a business wants a candidate. If the candidate is a minority or a woman then they're wanted less than white males are. That's what the salary information is telling us. A lot of businesses are only interested in minorities or women as long as they can get them for a cheaper rate in order to offset the "inconvenience" caused by being a minority or a woman. "Bargaining," for the most part, is the fairy tale justification society tells itself to justify discrimination. ErIog fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 02:08
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on the left posted:I was told by liberal arts graduates that communication skills and ability to write coherently in english is important, so maybe it's a good thing? Communication skills are completely separate from language skills. Someone who is bilingual probably has better communication skills than someone who doesn't even if their ability in the language in question is not quite to the level of a native speaker. As well, second language learners can very easily be skilled in one area of communication while not being skilled in others depending on the area of expertise. So the person may be able to interact well enough to do a job in question if given the chance, but not come off well in the interview due to not being familiar with style of speech in interviews. With native speakers of languages you can assume lack of other knowledge based on a lack of some other knowledge. Those patterns don't work the same way for non-native speakers of a language because they tend to be not as good at edge cases due to those edge cases being very rare. People in interviews would assume that a lack of knowledge of an edge case would be a sign of the person's ability in other more common situations such as ones involved in their day to day job. So, as in the programming example, an evaluation of the person actually doing the thing the person is being hired for is the best way to evaluate. Role-playing and puzzle solving are good for this. Conversations unrelated to the job at hand serve no purpose other than maybe evaluating the person's ability to bullshit and make small talk. If you're interviewing for your company softball team or kicking the tires to evaluate in-group/out-group then having an interview filled with unrelated bullshit is fine. If you actually want to evaluate ability at a job then you need to watch the person do sample tasks you will be asking them to do in their actual job. ErIog fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 06:58
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shrike82 posted:Heh, bilingual typically means native or close-to-native level proficiency with the second language. Thinking bilingual means native or close-to-native level proficiency with a second language seems like a white/American person kind of thinking to me. Bilingual adults all seem to characterize language learning as a continuum with "native level proficiency" being a nebulous goal that shifts depending on the task in question. The only people who don't think this way are usually the ones who were raised bilingual who don't realize the kind of advantage that confers in language acquisition. ErIog fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 07:11
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shrike82 posted:Nah, to give an example, my firm was recruiting for bilingual English/Japanese speakers to launch an office in Tokyo last year. Do you know why those American resumes are filled with half-truths or lies? It's because they know that the requirements list for most jobs, at least in the US, has no connection to the actual job they will be asked to do. Which gets back to the problem of discrimination in hiring and using crude screens to filter candidates. It has nothing to do with Americans thinking that "bilingual" means "not proficient." There's a lot of jobs in America that can be yours if you can demonstrate you're in the in-group at that employer. Getting through the resume screen is the first step, and has become kind of a game. It's rigged game, though, because the interview then weeds out all the candidates that don't fit the proper stereotype of being white or being male. ErIog fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 07:27
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I think it's more likely that you have a lot of resumes coming from people that studied a bit of Japanese because they like to watch anime but having never actually being confronted with, you know, speaking actual Japanese think they're more proficient than they are. People who would actually make it to a phone interview after a resume screen probably aren't of the "just likes anime" variety. The anime fans tend not to be dedicated enough to end up actually applying for a job in Japan. They peter out somewhere around beginner level usually because they tend to be more dedicated to anime than real studying. So that's probably not a factor in shrike82's situation. He's probably getting people who probably can read alright, can speak some casual and daily Japanese, have a language certification of some sort, but then can't do business or formal Japanese for the interview. Business Japanese, in particular, is almost like its own dialect in a lot of ways and it's easy for Japanese learners to overlook. It also can be tough for Japanese people themselves sometimes, but a lot of them pick it up via osmosis or can fake it okay. The Japanese language certifications are also really bad or not available outside of Japan very easily at all. So most places use the certifications as just a makework screen for the resume, and then give a more rigorous language evaluation during the interview or application process. ErIog fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 07:55
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