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The best strategy in the campaign is still to turtle up in a town with squads in every block and let them come to you.
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Apr 19, 2014 08:21
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Elukka posted:e: Ok I don't get cohesion at all. What exactly makes it go up? Battles make it go down regardless of how it goes, but what else is a factor? The tutorial pages don't explain it. R&R
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Apr 19, 2014 09:19
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Elukka posted:Oh yeah, that makes sense. Fighting reduce cohesion. You restore cohesion by using the R&R order. In the first campaign it's not needed because the game doesn't let your break out of the Bosun pocket anyways. So just sit tight and R&R every turn. In the later campaign, sometimes it pays to get a couple units to attack with full cohesion in large battle since camping in or just outside the starting sector is the easiest way to achieve total victory, having high cohesion means you don't have to venture out to capture sector for income.
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Apr 19, 2014 09:20
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Same as alb once you've made absolutely critical moves cycle mash R&R on all your other units before you end turn.
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Apr 19, 2014 09:50
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It would be nice if units not otherwise engaged at the end of a turn automatically R&Red.
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Apr 19, 2014 10:03
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So in single player, you can't attack an adjacent sector with a unit if there's currently an enemy unit in the same sector as the unit you want to attack with. But avoid battle still exists. Am I wrong in thinking you can permanently tie down any number of units just by parking a unit in a sector and then hitting avoid battle every turn?
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Apr 19, 2014 13:30
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Arglebargle III posted:So in single player, you can't attack an adjacent sector with a unit if there's currently an enemy unit in the same sector as the unit you want to attack with. But avoid battle still exists. Am I wrong in thinking you can permanently tie down any number of units just by parking a unit in a sector and then hitting avoid battle every turn? And when the enemy attacks, you...?
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Apr 19, 2014 13:55
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xthetenth posted:I think it's actually that two of the US armored batallions or whatever in the SK campaign only have two initiative. So they move but they can't get in the fight until a turn ticks Units with no Init left can still participate in defensive actions though, so they're pretty good at holding ground you just captured with coordinated attacks by 3 Init Units.
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Apr 19, 2014 15:32
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pedro0930 posted:We have a lot of active and experienced players on this board, hop on Mumble and people will be happy to show you the rope. That's still the CTS mumble right?
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Apr 19, 2014 16:18
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So reservists have 4 classes of rifle they take into battle: Assault Rifles, Battle Rifles, SMGs, Semi-Auto/Bolt Action (antiques). They perform as follows: Assault Rifles: static-0.057 HE/s moving-0.029 HE/s True RoF-17.14 rpm Battle Rifles: static-0.065 HE/s moving-0.011 HE/s True RoF-13.09 rpm SMG: static-0.062 HE/s moving-0.062 HE/s True RoF-24.83 rpm Antique: static-0.075 HE/s moving-0.009 HE/s True RoF-11.25 rpm So as you can see, for static defence, the good old bolt actions are the most effective choice by far (and scandinavian ones also frequently come with excellent MG's too). SMG's are best on the move and still pretty good in static fights (also gain the most in close range because of their higher RoF). Battle rifles and Assault rifles are surprisingly bad. Battle rifles perform somewhat worse when static over bolt actions, but barely provide any improvement to moving dps in exchange. Meanwhile Assault rifles are just plain old always inferior to SMGs. edit: Hemvarnsman, the swedish reservists with what is basically an L.MG3 with a longer reload time, will, 1 for 1, out dps most line infanty and have more hitpoints and half the price. loving lol. Hemvarnsman (rookie): 0.18 HE/s Motostrelki (rookie): 0.12 HE/s Motostrelki (elite): 0.16 HE/s Fusiliers (rookie): 0.15HE/s Fusiliers '90 (rookie): 0.17 Shanakin fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 16:38
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you can still 'attack' with 2 Init units, but you offer the enemy the chance to retaliate. for example, if you attack a sector with a 3 init and a 2 init unit (inf and armor respectively), you note that on your turn you only get the points/units of the infantry unit that has init left. however, you don't HAVE to process that battle. you can just end your turn. After the computer moves it will force the battle, at which time you will have the full strength of your attack. You just have to be wary of potential reinforcements in this case, so it's best used for cut off or otherwise isolated enemy groups.
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Apr 19, 2014 17:55
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Shanakin posted:edit: Hemvarnsman, the swedish reservists with what is basically an L.MG3 with a longer reload time, will, 1 for 1, out dps most line infanty and have more hitpoints and half the price. loving lol. Hilarious.
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Apr 19, 2014 18:09
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Well i just played a Naval map and that seemed really fun. Don't know how well it'll stand up to repeated plays but it's definitely a fun change of pace. The key to naval combat seems to me to be a combined air and sea approach, overwhelm the opponent with missile fire from your boats combined with helicopter/air launchs. It still probably won't one-shot them, but it'll rattle them, and whichever boat panics first loses the subsequent gun battle.
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Apr 19, 2014 18:30
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DatonKallandor posted:Units with no Init left can still participate in defensive actions though, so they're pretty good at holding ground you just captured with coordinated attacks by 3 Init Units. However, the units with them include the best armored force for spearheading the attack coming out of Seoul. So unless you know what's going on and to end turn to get your units you can end up in the unenviable situation of oh god why where are my tanks, why do I only have infantry on an attack out of an open cap zone?
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Apr 19, 2014 18:57
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You do still see what you have when starting the battle and there's a cancel button. It's where I'm usually reminded that oh right I'm out of initiative.
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Apr 19, 2014 19:02
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The penultimate result of my speggery on reservists and machineguns tonight: http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=44009
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Apr 19, 2014 19:06
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Elukka posted:You do still see what you have when starting the battle and there's a cancel button. It's where I'm usually reminded that oh right I'm out of initiative. Yep. When you don't know what's going on however, it's pretty easy to think the problem is something else and not think of the solution. Shanakin posted:The penultimate result of my speggery on reservists and machineguns tonight: Danish SMGs and MG3s are the only true infantry. My usual helicopter opening is two cards of Danish Jaegers with some SAS mixed in and gazelle celtics for escort, and it's amazing. I just wish that there was a way to replicate my hideous abomination of a blufor motorized deck on the redfor side. The only way to get a good variety of infantry in the right transports is to go with a motorized deck, and that only gives two extra infantry and some recon slots I can't really find enough awesome units for. Mechanized decks seem pretty terrible since they're infantry decks without the transports to make infantry a good choice. Airborne's really limited by its helicopter focus but I guess that's the best bet because at least I can use BMDs for the assault transports I might end up needing. So Danish Jaegers can run up to Delta in a building and machine gun them down. Welp. Meanwhile MG performance isn't accounted for in infantry pricing or availability. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 19:24
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Pubbie decided out shoutcast a goon game (it is the amphibious landing one) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNzb-47M7UQ
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Apr 19, 2014 23:35
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I beat the Bear vs. Dragon campaign tonight. That was a tough one, and it came right down to the wire with a series of ill-advised attacks with half-prepared forces in order to reach the target region on turn 18. I don't think you get a single properly good unit in that campaign - maybe the infantry battalions since even the reservists come in pretty decent BMP-variant transports and they can do good service. And the naval squadrons with their surfeit of gunships, I guess. But for the most part you're making do with crap against increasingly stronger forces, which is pretty challenging. Those T-80s took a hell of a lot of beating and the MiG-21s with AGMs were far too prone to being shot down to do the work they were supposed to. The best air support you can get is probably that squadron of 4 cluster bombers - they do precisely what you want them to do.
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Apr 19, 2014 23:40
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So Naval combat almost works when you boost Naval SAM and anti-ship missile range to roughly 20km each. Change missile accuracy to be roughly 80-90% as well.
Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 03:57
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Shanakin posted:The penultimate result of my speggery on reservists and machineguns tonight: AND...of course pubbie screaming about 100m range difference and CQC stats come screaming right out of the woods in literally two posts. I just want to choke those fuckers every time I see them post in one of those analytic posts. The new MGs added in RD needs to be normalized again like they did for ALB. The M60 shorty is exclusively used by shock and special force yet is one of the worst MG in-game, which made those squads some of the worst in-game unsurprisingly, such as Delta, why took away their Stoner again? Anyways, good work Shankakin and Xerxes17 doing all the hard work publishing all these numberss. Wargame strategy talk has revolve around a bunch of anecdotes instead of  for far too long.
pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 04:03
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Today I Learned: Tarantul-IIIs are faster than Heavy Hogs  And Smoke in the Water is a Bad Map do not play it.
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Apr 20, 2014 04:05
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pedro0930 posted:AND...of course pubbie screaming about 100m range difference and CQC stats come screaming right out of the woods in literally two posts. I just want to choke those fuckers every time I see one of those analytic posts. I think I shut them up when I had Danish Jaegers run up to Delta Farce in a building and machine gun them out, luckily. Look at that range in action.
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Apr 20, 2014 04:05
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So does Eugen present fake RoF numbers for weapons to appease the realism crowd and then actually have hidden actual values that are totally different? 
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Apr 20, 2014 05:40
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Mukip posted:So does Eugen present fake RoF numbers for weapons to appease the realism crowd and then actually have hidden actual values that are totally different? They're true for tank guns but that's about it. Everything else is incredibly arbitrary. Especially in the AAA category which lies like a motherfucker. If you were to believe the armoury, vulcans should fire at like 1033RPM or something. Instead they fire at about 30. Meanwhile the BIHO fires at about 250 in the armoury, but is the fastest firing AAA gun in the game at about 50 shots per minute. edit: The BIHO is the single best AAA gun in the game by the way. Highest RoF (51.1 rpm)and best DPS (0.47HE/s) out to 2800m. Followed by the guntank and tunguska (0.4 HE/s over 44.1rpm @ 2800). Also the only difference between a shilka, a biryusa and a tunguska is their accuracy and range. They all shoot the same bursts/RoF Shanakin fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 05:48
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Are you sure about that? I've had a Shilka run out of ammo, and if they really did fire that slow, that would've taken them like 20 minutes of non-stop firing.
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Apr 20, 2014 06:46
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The ammo numbers are also fake. There's a hidden stat for how much visible ammo each actual shot uses.
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Apr 20, 2014 06:47
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Dezztroy posted:Are you sure about that? I've had a Shilka run out of ammo, and if they really did fire that slow, that would've taken them like 20 minutes of non-stop firing. Ammo usage has nothing to do with the burst ROF
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Apr 20, 2014 06:48
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Confirming that fast boats are faster than slow helicopters. We're through the looking glass here. 
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Apr 20, 2014 06:51
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Kerc Kasha posted:Ammo usage has nothing to do with the burst ROF Noone mentioned burst RoF. Elukka posted:The ammo numbers are also fake. There's a hidden stat for how much visible ammo each actual shot uses. Well, that explains it. This is really dumb, Eugen.
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Apr 20, 2014 06:52
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ROF is crazy arbitrary, and i will never stop making GBS threads on their decision to make radsams all [GUID] because it makes ROF stuff even stupider. And ROF is always burst, even with missiles (they just have burst values of 1). The more you know (about invisible values)! Arglebargle III posted:Confirming that fast boats are faster than slow helicopters. We're through the looking glass here. 
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Apr 20, 2014 07:03
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If it's so important that the number for an AA autocannon not be something low like 30, can't they just add a zero or two to the actual fire rate of all of them and thus keep them consistent and meaningful? You wouldn't get ~realistic~ numbers but they're not realistic right now anyway. As it is it'd be better to not show a RoF stat for them at all since it has no bearing on the game and only serves to mislead.
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Apr 20, 2014 07:22
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Also did you know that the Udaloy has 2 tunguskas on it for CIWs.
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Apr 20, 2014 07:25
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Dezztroy posted:Noone mentioned burst RoF. Everything fires in bursts. Missiles and tank guns etc just fire in bursts of 1. Eitherway, these numbers are full DPS, including aim and reload time etc. Burst DPS mostly shows up the same thing but with a higher value. Eh, looking it up the Amur (Shilka, Biryusa) uses 50/burst wheras the Tunguska only uses 30. EDIT: Each burst cycle (aim, fire, reload) takes 13.6s for both of them Shanakin fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 07:32
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Shanakin posted:They're true for tank guns but that's about it. Everything else is incredibly arbitrary. Especially in the AAA category which lies like a motherfucker. If you were to believe the armoury, vulcans should fire at like 1033RPM or something. Instead they fire at about 30. Meanwhile the BIHO fires at about 250 in the armoury, but is the fastest firing AAA gun in the game at about 50 shots per minute. It looks like there's a relatively consistent scaling factor in AA of how many armory shots per damage roll there are by caliber or something. The Biho does have a pretty fast RoF for a 35mm, and the rate of fire for the Gepard in the armory is .866 times that of the Biho and in your listed figures it's .863 times that of the Biho. Also oh dear god is the West German fanboy brigade awful. Apparently every single redfor infantry is in a quantum superposition of being able to oneshot Marders (which takes 35 points with transport minimum outside redfor unlimited and nswp decks, which kind of suck) and being Spets and/or Li Jian. Or every position is populated with both types of infantry, and somehow the fact that for every such pair of infantry squads the redfor player is laying down enough points for two pgrens and two marders or eight deckungsgruppe is ignored. Seriously, somehow Spets having 6 HE is insurmountable by a deck that can put a group of squads with twice the HP and 8 HE. EDIT: Or maybe not, the Strop 2 has the same ingame RoF as the Tunguskas. Is there something going on with double weapons? And the Falcon's KCB is listed at almost the same RoF in armory but isn't even close. I don't even know anymore. Would it be too much to ask for for a burst length and a damage rolls per second display? xthetenth fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 08:19
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West Germany has the best selection of infantry in the whole game. The only thing missing is that its reservists don't come in 5 point wheeled transports. You have FSJ90, which are of course amazing. You can bring 10pt deckungsgruppe in Marder 1A3s for 30 points; reminder to everyone that 1A3s tote a Milan F2 with 24AP and a 20mm autocannon plus 4 front armor. Compare Strf 9040s which are 5 points more with the same armor and no ATGM. You get very fast transport helicopters for 20 points and slower ones for just 10 points. You get Stinger Cs and Milan 2s. Your infantry (except pgrens and heimatschutzen) can all ride in Fuchs, which are the second-best 10pt transport in the game after the Canadian Bison. Reminder that for 10 points you pay for a ridiculously fast amphibious wheeled armored transport that packs an MG3, while American players are paying 10 points for a Humvee and Soviet players are paying 15 for a BTR-60.
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Apr 20, 2014 08:33
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xthetenth posted:It looks like there's a relatively consistent scaling factor in AA of how many armory shots per damage roll there are by caliber or something. The Biho does have a pretty fast RoF for a 35mm, and the rate of fire for the Gepard in the armory is .866 times that of the Biho and in your listed figures it's .863 times that of the Biho. The Strop 2 is a literal mystery. It literally has no weapon entry. It's meant to be a single gun of the tunguska, but there's no entry for that at all. Yet somehow it's there. I think I just copied in the tunguska values and forgot. also the germans are the worst. They've convinced themselves that german infantry is the worst in the game, and it genuinely is not. It's some of the best thanks to their machineguns. Pact infantry tends to fair poorly because so many units use PKMs which are loving atrocious. Shanakin fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 08:47
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Shanakin posted:Everything fires in bursts. Missiles and tank guns etc just fire in bursts of 1. Well I feel silly now. So outside of accuracy and range, there's no way of knowing how good a SPAAG is just from looking at the stats?
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Apr 20, 2014 08:51
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Surely the German community is not worse than the British? GBNATO needs to take his precious Phantom FGR.2s and shove them straight up his anus.
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Apr 20, 2014 08:59
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Mortabis posted:West Germany has the best selection of infantry in the whole game. The only thing missing is that its reservists don't come in 5 point wheeled transports. You have FSJ90, which are of course amazing. You can bring 10pt deckungsgruppe in Marder 1A3s for 30 points; reminder to everyone that 1A3s tote a Milan F2 with 24AP and a 20mm autocannon plus 4 front armor. Compare Strf 9040s which are 5 points more with the same armor and no ATGM. You get very fast transport helicopters for 20 points and slower ones for just 10 points. You get Stinger Cs and Milan 2s. Your infantry (except pgrens and heimatschutzen) can all ride in Fuchs, which are the second-best 10pt transport in the game after the Canadian Bison. Reminder that for 10 points you pay for a ridiculously fast amphibious wheeled armored transport that packs an MG3, while American players are paying 10 points for a Humvee and Soviet players are paying 15 for a BTR-60. The Milan 2 is a bad missile.  Napalm renders all infantry instantly useless, IFVs die instantly in forests, and there's no room in decks for cheap tanks and meanwhile literally the entire game revolves around infantry actions in forests.  Also Fallschirmjaegers are awful to the point of uselessness despite not being worse at shooting people with guns than literally every single infantry unit in the entire game that isn't German.  Mortabis posted:Surely the German community is not worse than the British? GBNATO needs to take his precious Phantom FGR.2s and shove them straight up his anus. The Brits got handed some good stuff and are mostly happy. The Germans are furious that their precious ickle airborne deck isn't as great because they lost their second card of FSJ '90, as if West German airborne decks actually happen with RD's broken specialization system. Honestly considering how awful the constraints are, more than two viable specialization decks should get a country reviewed for a nerf (or the specializations could be fixed to be not awful but who am I kidding). They're furious because their tanks are merely good (apparently, I'm literally getting vertigo from how wrong their opinions are because I can't trust down to stay bloody down any more), and their fighters are trash (let's ask Red Dragon how they'd feel about F-4 KWS's!). xthetenth fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Apr 20, 2014 |
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Apr 20, 2014 09:04
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