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It's pretty crazy how the book that didn't double ship is the slower of the two. I don't mind a lot of the "filler" Avengers stuff because it's either been good character development like the Hyperion story, or it's been setting up other storylines like the Mapmakers. There's no wasted space in my opinion. I love that they've been doing a slow burn on the current storyline. The previous issue with Namor and T'Challa talking about being Kings was great. I have no doubt it will read much better in Omni form as did Infinity(although I think there could have been another issue of Avengers in space just so that wasn't quite so compressed).
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May 15, 2014 11:52
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Die Laughing posted:Super Villain Team Up was the Doom and Namor show. Morrison's Fantastic Four 1234 had some great Namor moments too. Both of these were great, 1234 in particular laid the groundwork for the "I'm not a man; I'm a King." attitude that Namor has. 
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Jun 14, 2014 08:40
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Fereydun posted:Someone mentioning the Cancerverse in the Badass Panels thread made me think- has it been shown what Shuma-Gorath and company are doing during this whole event? I wouldn't be surprised to see the Map Makers get introduced as the next thing they have to deal with at some point in the near future. Doom has a piece of the world they annihilated and I could see Hickman doing a "Doom reforms The Cabal" with the intent of figuring out what has gone wrong, they build a bridge using the piece of the destroyed Earth which accidentally unleashes the Map Makers on Earth.
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Jun 15, 2014 16:39
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:I think you mean Doom defeats and eliminates the Map Makers I was trying not to spoil the ending for people, but Doom has the situation well in hand until Richards shows up and steals all the glory like he always does.
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Jun 15, 2014 18:39
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radlum posted:Were the Illuminati Bendis' idea? I always liked the concept and it's a pity we had to wait so many years before someone made great use of them. Hickman's work is amazing. The Annual was quite good as well; what else does Barbiere do? The art was amazing as well. Illuminati was the best thing Bendis ever came up with. Even now when I read back, there's some Bendis speak but for the most part the issues are tight, the storyline is well plotted and the dialogue makes sense for each character. It seems like the only story he didn't conclude was the Beyonder plot, and in some of the cases like Marvel Boy or The Hood getting the Infinity Gauntlet he just plain hosed up, but I think as a lead in to Secret Invasion/Civil War, it's great stuff. Also I loved how much better the fake JLA was then the Illuminati; that's always been one of my issues when people say things like "Hyperion is a superman clone" obviously the power set is the same, but Thor and Hyperion are still really only "Gods" in comparison to the earth level super heroes and even then they're far less powerful than a lot of "Cosmic Level" characters. Sun God took some shots from Hulk but obviously wasn't really much more than distracted. Norn and Panther were evenly matched just like you'd expect Batman and Black Panther to be. I'm pretty sure Iron Man has a speedster in his rogue's gallery but even guys like Quicksilver are far less fast than Flash so it makes sense that given he's essentially limited by the speed of light on his equipment he couldn't deal with someone faster than it. I'm not a DC fan but I like that the relative scale of power levels was shown in such a nice comparison. Hickman wrote himself a solid out there by having their world's "sorcerer" not actually be trained in the art itself.
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Jun 26, 2014 09:59
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TwoPair posted:So I was totally down with Marvel vs. DC 2: Non-copyright infringement boogaloo, but the end totally lost me. So Doc Strange can't sell his soul but can go Black Priest mode because he... saw a doodle of Cthulhu in his Blood Bible book? And why did The Norn wasn't actually a Sorcerer Supreme, he was just a guy that had a bunch of magic items and knew how to activate them. So when Strange used the words of the Black Priests he was able to see that the Norn didn't actually command any magic power. Sort of like imagine a wizard is fighting a rogue with a ton of magic items, the Wizard might think the Rogue is a magician until he realizes that the Rogue isn't casting the spells, he's just using the magic items to do what they've been designed/enchanted to do.
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Jun 27, 2014 22:26
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Nevvy Z posted:One other thought I had reading that issue, I like that they found the most effective way to beat the Hulk. You have to hit him so hard he doesn't have time to get any angrier. That was my interpretation as well. Since the Hulk has to grow stronger, he needs to be able to take that first blow and keep going. Sun God blasted him so hard he just went down right away. Compare to when Starbrand blasted him into space, he had quite a few moments floating in low orbit to get pretty pissed off, enabling him to come crashing back down from a Captain Marvel throw. Here he was hitting Sun God, and then Sun God was like ok I see how strong you are, now I'll punch you hard enough that you won't be able to recover.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:36
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Yeah, I definitely don't think it's fair to lay all the blame for Civil War on Millar. Although he was responsible for Clor which was a pretty rear end in a top hat move by Reed and Tony. I feel like Hickman read Galactic Storm back in the day and thought "I can do better.". I loved the idea/concept of that storyline but not the actual writing and look of it. This is following those ideas up and I'm digging it.
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Aug 2, 2014 08:06
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Gavok posted:It's weird in that despite Tony Stark coming out of the event worse than anyone else, the miniseries itself painted him as one of the only level-headed characters. OTHER THAN THE CLOR BULLSHIT, which was just Millar wanting to have his cake and eat it too. There's no defending that part. Other than that, all the stuff Tony gets blamed for during the actual miniseries isn't really his doing. Despite the heroes vs. heroes selling point, it's really a comic about a supervillain named Maria Hill where the heroes argue over how to stop her. Iron Man's take is, "I never wanted this to happen, but it's happening and the best we can do is fix it from the inside. What are we going to do, literally fight the government? To what end? Besides, they do have a point despite going the wrong way about it," while Cap's take is, "Tell Hill and SHIELD to go gently caress off and hope it works." Cap basically acts like a kid told it's bedtime. quote:I also feel like Hickman read Marvel vs. DC and thought, "I can do better." The plot was literally the same as the last New Avengers arc. Marvel heroes and DC heroes fight it out and the losers' world will be destroyed while everyone goes, "I really don't want to do this, but we have no time! We fight or else both worlds will die!" I actively try to avoid the DC/Marvel crossovers because I figure there's no way they can possibly end well or in any satisfying manner. I honestly feel that even though they're both "superhero comics" the way the stories are told and the universes are so different that even in terms of a common theme the book wouldn't make either audience happy.
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Aug 3, 2014 01:05
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Strange wasn't really super-powered so any hit would have gotten him, the problem for the Society was that he summoned a giant tentacle beast and they started fighting that which got them killed almost immediately. Stark and co. weren't having to defend themselves from what was going on so they fixed the repulsor and knocked him out, breaking his channeling the portal open. I don't think he necessarily lost control he was just focusing on casting and killing the GS, if you see the socerer of the dark arts suddenly has a third eye and all three of his eyes look crazy while he's summoning a demon you might worry about how in control he is as well.
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Aug 3, 2014 08:59
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Is there any way we can get a collection together to pay a good artist to redraw that issue of New Avengers. I know that people do alternate covers, but there seriously needs to be alternate interiors as well. That whole issue was completely ruined by the loving awful art.
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Aug 7, 2014 18:46
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PelvicNerve posted:I'd put 4 bucks in a Kickstarter to do that. I'd pledge at least $250 if we could get the whole NA run, redraw by Epting. That guy does such a nice job of shadowing. The darkness of the panels was so good for the theme of this book. I miss that. Starsnostars posted:It's weird because I remember liking Walker's art when he was on Thunderbolts, maybe he was in a rush or something? Anyway there's only one more New Avengers issue with Walker on art before Deodato comes back for Time Runs Out. I think it's just a tone thing. I liked his Thunderbolts work too but here it just felt off. I'm excited to see Deodato back, I know a lot of people here don't like him but I love his work.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:42
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Boogaleeboo posted:Pym really needs an Alias treatment. Stop pretending he's ever going to be the guy, make him a side character to the wider world dealing with the fact he just couldn't hack it. This. I sort of feel the same way about the Wasp. Let both of them retire and bring in new characters to take their place that aren't burdened by years of awful stories and terrible writing.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:31
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That last panel was great, but another instance where the art didn't do the scene justice. That's the type of panel that they should have brought a great talent for. I liked the art, it wasn't bad, but it could have been SOOO much better. I feel like Hickman is running through his story so fast the art quality isn't able to keep up. I just imagine how awesome that scene would have looked if a great artist had spent a significant amount of time drawing it. Man that Cabal scene was great. Personally after Namor gave his speech I could have put a small panel in the bottom corner with just a Thanos Grin, but it was perfect just as it was.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:02
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Sentinel Red posted:Well that's really lovely but it also seems rather un-Doom, if you get me. Not complaining, mind, it adds nicely to what a hard to pin down character he is. It's a point that makes his character. He's frequently shown to be willing to protect those he cares about, his people for example. When he got named Valeria's god father, it's not surprising that he'd start to live up to the role. It's not like he's the Ruler but doesn't actually care about his country; he's just also very petty and vindictive.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:46
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Waterhaul posted:He does care for Valeria but by the same extent if Doom thought killing her would get him more power or advance an agenda he has he'd do it without hesitation. I'm not sure I completely agree with that. Until I see it happen, in my mind she's Doom's achillies heel. He could be holding the Infinity Gauntlet, use it to destroy Richards, then bring him back to life because he saw Valeria crying. He'd make a speech about how his victory was hollow and so forth and seeks only to defeat Richards at his own game, but we'd all know the truth: Doom has a heart and it breaks with the tears of little girls. Even if he did do it he would regret it though and this could very well be a turning point in the character if it happens.
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Aug 20, 2014 20:11
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I actually didn't really like the Waid run at all. I thought "true love of Doom" thing was dumb and out of place because it wasn't a major point before and was clearly to set up him 'killing' her so it felt really pointless. Reed learning magic was also pretty stupid in my book. I know people really like that run for some reason but it was just awful in my book. That's not to say it didn't happen, but Doom jobbed to Squirrel Girl once upon a time too so all it would take is to have another writer come along and say that Doom didn't really love her, he just had to pretend to love her so the demons would find her a worthwhile bargaining chip. To my knowledge Doom hasn't ever betrayed his mother in an attempt to gain power, maybe someone could correct me on that but I can't think of any times off the top of my head. He's attempted to rescue her from Hell on quite a few occasions so I think he has some loyalty to family, while being the Godfather might not be blood, it could be enough for Doom. Kristoff on the other hand I think has seen a mixed bag of love and disregard based on the writer.
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Aug 20, 2014 21:00
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bobkatt013 posted:It has been a plot point since Byrne did his origin in 1985. I can see why some people could not like that storyline but why else would you dislike Waid's run? A minor plot point, she doesn't even have a wikipedia article or Marvel Universe article. We're not talking Scott Summers and Jean Grey here; this wasn't the love the conquered time and space, this was something Waid dredged up from years past and used as if it was something that had been there the whole time. I didn't like Waid's run because Unthinkable was so bad it ruined all the good will he'd built up. As far as I'm concerned we can file that in the same place we're filing the 'Marquis of Death' story. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 21:46
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wiegieman posted:I'm surprised that Hickman would write Amadeus Cho as ever being in danger from heroes coming to punch him. He's the CEO of the Olympus Group, he thinks faster than light, he throws down with deities. You don't just fly up and hit him. I'm inclined to think it's some alternate universe thing because why are Hawkeye and Captain Marvel wearing grey costumes? Dammit Who? posted:Can I just say that Tony Stark having the "build some weapons, whoops now someone awful has them" thing happen to him again is hilarious? Congrats dude, you built a big room full of planetkiller bombs and now The Mad Titan Thanos Who Loves Death So Much He Wants To Marry It, Like For Real has them. It's also funny putting your prison right next to your storeroom for said WMDs.
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Aug 23, 2014 09:13
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TwoPair posted:You cracked the code I liked it. I think the swans are pawns of an Apocalypse that loves the ideas of the incursions and see them as the multiversal last man standing battle royal he always dreamed of.
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Aug 26, 2014 13:57
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Remember we're talking about the Marvel Universe populace who are shown to be completely selfish and ignorant about Superheroics. "Wahh the Thing destroyed my house when Galactus threw him on it. Then he used my car to hit Galactus in the face and saved the earth, but that was my car and my house and now I want him thrown in jail; also I'm suing him for everything I could possibly sue him for!" There wouldn't even be a trial, the denizens of the Marvel Universe would just burn them all at the stake in front of the White House.
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Aug 27, 2014 12:13
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Interesting hint there that Black Swan is the one holding the detonator and not Namor. Perhaps there is hope for the man yet.
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Aug 28, 2014 22:19
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I recall he also did that thing where he just hosed with, taunted and raged on people who complained about the quality of the writing; on his twitter or some such. Arguing with your fans is not a great idea. He had some good will as well because his run on Cable and X-Force showed he was competent but trying to defend what is a lovely premise to tie into a major movie at the cost of killing characters for no reason with a terrible main villian was doomed from the start and instead of even towing the company line or throwing the job under the bus he got incredbly defensive and acted like his poo poo was gold.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:37
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Edge & Christian posted:I honestly don't remember any of that, I remember him saying that it wasn't his idea but he was happy with how it turned out but again, short of killing himself while skywriting I'M THE BIGGEST PIECE OF poo poo EVER across the entire sky would be considered 'taunting' the fans and 'thinking his poo poo doesn't stink' and 'writing a big gently caress you to the fans'. I could be wrong and maybe someone has a better memory than me(of better twitter-fu) but I seem to recall he basically went off about how he was "telling a story and gently caress your favorite characters or their characterization". Again I read Avengers Arena, it wasn't great but a lot of these guys just need to block fans on Twitter or make a fanpage account where they don't interact beyond "hey believers, here's another one of my comics!". Bendis is another good example of this.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:59
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bobkatt013 posted:Do you mean Bendis is an example of someone who just has a fanpage and blocks people? I am pretty sure Slott is an example of someone who will search you down if you insult him. Sure, Slott is a good example of someone who doesn't deal with criticism well. Bendis blocks detractors and then jokes about his lovely writing in interviews.
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Sep 16, 2014 07:47
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Edge & Christian posted:I went back and read all six pages of the Avengers Arena thread on here and considering it's 90% people saying that they hate the book and hate Hopeless and gently caress this book and gently caress this writing and gently caress this writer and gently caress this gay earth the only time anyone mentions Hopeless (outside of calling him a hack and a charlatan and a morally compromised person who did a decent Cable but gently caress HIM) is Onmi saying "Yes so the sequel to the editorially mandated shitpile must be AMAZING, especially when the writer has been completely flipping the gently caress out on anyone who happens to dislike this book." Again, my memory could be off, the tweets could have been deleted(although I would think that people would have reported that) but I have a strong memory of him, not "flipping the gently caress out", but not handling criticism in a very professional manner, I searched his twitter for stuff with the #avengersarena and didn't come up with anything but I also didn't google search or search any other comic forums. It's not really worth the energy because... I think at the end of the day you're right. There's a lot of hyperbole tossed around and particularly at that time people were really pissed off about the whole ordeal. Avengers Academy had just ended and was really well liked, not Runaways level(which also pissed people off) but it had a lot of goodwill and strong feelings for those characters. To see them tossed into a throw away comic that was being marketed to appeal to a new generation simply by the virtue of being similar to another popular franchise, with the promise that some of those characters would die was a big slap in the face to the fans. Could Hopeless have done better in the position? Yes. Would people still have hated him? Yes. There was no way around that. The dude was put in a position where he had to shoot your family's So there you go. You're right, he's not an evil monster nor the worst writer ever. ...and to be honest I'd rather reread Avengers Arena than reread Bendis' X-Men. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 16:16
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Spiderdrake posted:I wonder if Hickman asked for Cyclops and was refused. I feel like he'd write the hell out of Cyclops, since his Namor is so good and the two characters have a fair bit in common. Inversely maybe he really never wanted Xavier; it feels like his Avengers work doesn't really get bogged down in the stuff say, Uncanny Avengers, has. Cyclops falls in the same domain of being a bit too 'mutant issues' whereas Beast has always been willing to be or go neutral. I can't imagine that Bendis would have denied Cyclops and OK'd Beast since they were both equally important parts of the books they were in. Really though Beast makes sense because there was no leader of the mutants at the time when Xavier needed to be replaced, and Scott wouldn't add anything to the science side of things. It's not to say that with Tony and Reed, Beast is a necessary big brain but having a geneticist alongside an astrophysicist and an engineer makes sense. Similarly Bruce isn't necessary but I like the idea that the Illuminati is compromised of the smartest people in the world, plus a trio of kings and a wild card. The only 'mutant' leader potentially better to replace Xavier would have been Magneto in my opinion. Wolverine is too quick to buck against their authority and Scott comes off to be as someone who needs a large field of players to work effectively; particularly players that aren't already going to be coming up with strategies. Which is why it made sense that Cable and Scott always did their own thing and only interacted as situations demanded. Magneto, not only being one of the most powerful mutants but would have fit right in with a 'ends justify the means' storyline and been a voice of equality and, somewhat ironically, humanity. You could write a Magneto that followed pretty much the same plot as either Panther or Namor and it would have been believable.
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Sep 18, 2014 11:29
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:And that last page was a hell of an ending. Seriously, when was the last time, if ever, anyone cared about Molecule Man? Last time I remember seeing him was as a small unimportant arc in Dark Avengers. The only thing of note that happened during it was Sentry died and brought himself back. He definitely fits the power level needed for Doom to challenge the Mapmakers. Good stuff. For everything I didn't like about the time jump in Avengers; this was great. Perfect level of answering questions and making new plot threads.
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Sep 24, 2014 17:05
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Was it shown that Valeria is helping Doom? I don't think she is, in fact I think she might be with her dad which could be another reason that Susan is so pissed off.
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Sep 26, 2014 12:50
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Senor Candle posted:Based on? Valeria, in Hickman's FF has shown herself to be more like Reed without a conscience or scruples or whatever. She's a pragmatist who lacks experience and while protective of her family only her older self seemed to realize/embrace that. When it comes to solving the incursions I could easily see her siding with the Illuminati for the same reasons that they built the bombs in the first place; she's a kid but she's shown that she'll take matters into her own hands when she feels its necessary. Contacting Doom to help the Future Foundation was an example of this back in Hickman's FF. She finds the Bridge and instead of confronting Reed about it or telling Sue, she teleports herself to Doom and reinforces Reed by adding Doom to the team. She's more than willing to make unilateral decisions and in the case of the Illuminati I would guess that just like the bridge incident she not only sees what's going on, but possibly has a better plan that her mother wouldn't approve of(possibly involving Franklin and his powers). PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 20:45
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A.o.D. posted:If you check out the latest Loki, Agent of Asgard (and you should, it's good) it's clear that Doom is Valeria's Uncle, Teacher, Godfather (kind of), and Peer. That wasn't taking place at the same time as New Avengers though. Loki:AoA is still pre-AXIS. You're right that Valeria is all those things to Doom but there wasn't thing that I saw that puts her in with Doom's camp after the time jump.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:04
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Gavok posted:Oh, no doubt. Sadly, I reread it the other day to write a yet-to-be-published look back at the Supreme Power line. It's Ultimate Hulk Annual #1, despite Ultimate Hulk not having his own series. Cap tells Zarda that she shouldn't be killing her enemies after she almost kills one of the Wrecking Crew (who are 100% just 616 Wrecking Crew rather than the Ultimate version). Then Zarda's getting breakfast at a pancake house when a naked Hulk shows up, demanding waffles. The manager refuses to give him service and Zarda starts fighting him to make him wear pants. She punches him in the dick, is about to kill him, then thinks about what Cap said. She instead buys him some giant pants, then the go back to eating waffles and stuff. She asks if he wants anything else and he gives a creepy smile. Then it ends with them loving at a motel. Thanks for reminding me that Leob didn't just ruin the Ultimates line; he also hosed up the SupremeVerse. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 09:29
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Codependent Poster posted:None of the writers at Marvel are interested in using Xavier. It's why he was killed off. I thought Hickman was going to use him in the NA with the Illuminati until Bendis was like "AVX needs a major character death" so they chose Xavier, then Hickman wanted Magneto but Bendis had already called him too. So that's how we ended up with Beast.
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Oct 3, 2014 07:25
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bobkatt013 posted:The last two marvel events have been pretty great. Time to bump the sign that says "It has been [x] bad events since our last good event." to 1. edit: The ..."DC Will Save" title is pretty funny but that seems like it might be too long.
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Oct 6, 2014 16:38
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bobkatt013 posted:I think we should give Axis an issue or two before we pass judgment on it. Actually I think the worst Marvel events in the past decade were pretty good in the middle. It's always the inital premise and the endings that leave a lot to be desired. AVX for example was pretty good in the middle with the Phoenix 5 running around, Spider-Man and Iron Fist training Hope in Kun'Lun. Secret Invasion with the ship landing and a few issues of people not knowing what the gently caress was going on and who was who while Fury "activated" the butterflies. Bendis couldn't write a decent conclusion and most of the events seem to be inspired more by the Marketing department than anything else. I still have no idea how Infinity got the green light except that I guess since Guardians of the Galaxy was coming out Marvel decided they needed to give Thanos something to do and as a result Hickman got to send everyone out into space.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:12
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Well I think the thing is that Tony is a good business man but he's a micromanager and needs to be the star of whatever team he's on; look at Resilient for instance. Sure he could have subsidized AIM a long time ago and ran it but they'd eventually splinter off again and reform a different version of AIM because he'd need to have his fingers in everyone's pie. Here we're seeing Roberto running the company from a purely managerial role, he doesn't have the brains to make the machines or care how they work he's just concerened with the operations of the machine and it's finances. The middle level AIM guys would be perfectly happy as now they don't have to steal tech from other places and they can just innovate in peace, albeit with what I would assume is some oversight so they don't go into human experimentation or whatever.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:33
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Endless Mike posted:Yeah, the CEO of a major corporation not paying taxes was the most realistic part of that issue. He probably doesn't even need highly-paid accountants to loophole himself out of them! Makes sense, as the CEO of a Corporation for literal Gods you'd think religious exemptions would apply. Besides that, who's actually going to try to come and collect "Excuse me, Mrs.Hera? Yes, this is Mr.Wentworth with the IRS, we need to talk about these taxes...wait. I'm sorry my computer seems to have turned into a giant snake that's trying to eat me; I'll have to call you back." PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 17:21
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I was ok with the art. The faces were a little off but the tones matched the series well enough, I honestly wouldn't have really noticed if you had mentioned it. It was certainly not as bad as NA 22. At least here the colors were still in tone. Also; holy gently caress that was amazing. Ever issue of this series just blows me away. I think the Ivory Kings have to be alternate earth Illuminati, Rabum Alal being the Beyonder makes sense; I can't see the Beyonder not coming back given that there's a new Secret
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Nov 26, 2014 18:27
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Starsnostars posted:So if The Ivory Kings are fighting a war against Rabum Alal, I wonder what the Ebony Kings are and what they're doing? I'm guessing the Ebony Kings are an alternate Cabal that are running around just destroying whatever for the fun of it. Since they're not the root cause the Ivory Kings have them lower on the list of current problems; just like the current Illuminati do.
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Nov 26, 2014 18:59
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Gatts posted:http://comicbook.com/2014/12/15/exclusive-advance-marvel-solicitations-for-avengers-time-runs-ou/ God drat that Doom cover, Gabriele Dell’Otto is awesome.
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Jan 15, 2015 07:52
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